The Extraluminal Transmission Systems of Tesla and Alexanderson by Eric Dollard

The Secret of Tesla's Power Magnification

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Old 04-18-2009, 04:34 AM
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ashtweth ashtweth is offline
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Fisher and Paykel Bedini motor?

Hi Guys, we just got a Fisher and paykel motor and got thinking , instead of making it into a hot charge windmill (puts out an estimated 400 watts) Why not try and re wire it for a Bedini charge?. Lets get this tested and posted.
That would make them far more efficient in home power IMO.

We already know that the solid state can charge on 4 watts! so it only makes sense to trial this. Not sure how you would re wire it for a Bedini wind mill. I found a good site for re wiring a wind mill hot charge config, i think they typically have to re wire it from 250 volt to 12 volt. YourGreenDream - Hobby alternative energy production education and resources. Fisher and Paykel Smart Drive generators for windmills, wind power and hydro generators. Take a look guys its got some good DIY info there also. If any one has any tips on how to wire this i can get this tested and made for the forum .

Ash
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Old 04-18-2009, 11:11 AM
tai61 tai61 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashtweth View Post
Hi Guys, we just got a Fisher and paykel motor and got thinking , instead of making it into a hot charge windmill (puts out an estimated 400 watts) Why not try and re wire it for a Bedini charge?. Lets get this tested and posted.
That would make them far more efficient in home power IMO.

We already know that the solid state can charge on 4 watts! so it only makes sense to trial this. Not sure how you would re wire it for a Bedini wind mill. I found a good site for re wiring a wind mill hot charge config, i think they typically have to re wire it from 250 volt to 12 volt. YourGreenDream - Hobby alternative energy production education and resources. Fisher and Paykel Smart Drive generators for windmills, wind power and hydro generators. Take a look guys its got some good DIY info there also. If any one has any tips on how to wire this i can get this tested and made for the forum .

Ash
ash, plse perservere with the f and p . bedini motor ,im stumprd how to do this. i have 2 motors and have tried to convert 1 to wind mill but it would have to be huge to power it.spinning it by hand it is easy to get 100v ac.
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Old 04-18-2009, 11:51 AM
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
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Where do you get one of those motors? Did you have to rip a washer apart or somthing.

Matt
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Old 04-18-2009, 10:44 PM
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Its out of a washing machine

Nice ash, Im guessing that the rotor has the coils on it? Meaning it spins and commutation would be necessary? Or does the stator have the coils on it and its fixed in the middle? This would be similar to the brushless fans, the rotor is on the outside of the stator?

Gandalf just posted me a little brushless motor to fiddle with, Its a mini version of this, but bigger than a fan hopefully!


Regards
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:45 AM
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ashtweth ashtweth is offline
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Hi guys sorry just got in, K tai61, try this for an easy step by step wind ill conversion The Back Shed There is another site which has metal re enforcing available for it
EcoInnovation

@Matt, i could buy one and ship it up to you, however this thing weighs over 7 kg Ill keep trying to find a link for the usa ones, i think i saw one once Bro. Yup gonna try this no matter what guys, i see Rick just did a new monopole energizer multi coil kit, i want to trial this on a water fuel cell so i have other sinister motives for this
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:44 AM
tai61 tai61 is offline
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cheers ash for the site ,off to degog now.Akiwi over here has been turning these motors into hydro and wind generators for over 10 years and ships them worldwide ,he has a worker and alarge workshop,wires the motors up as both star and delter patterns and uses 2 bridges for off grid battery charging. used to just down the road from f&p factory and they dropped off occaional truckload of these motors,defective for nix.
any way for these motors look in the whiteware at local dummp normally heeps of the right wahing machunes with these motors ,bought whole w/machine for $5.00 .motors are run by 3 small reed switches to computer and any house voltage spike blows at least one reed, so people chuck em out, cheers bill
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Old 04-22-2009, 03:33 AM
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ashtweth ashtweth is offline
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F and P in the USA
Randy's Workshop and Engineering projects Home Page
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Old 04-22-2009, 07:02 PM
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Hey Ash,

I am doing this on a (super)small scale here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...html#post52469

BTW, is the center of the stator hub a plastic material or is it laminations? Would you machine a new rotor up for this? I need to keep my eyes open for one, it could be an interesting project

There a couple of them on ebay right now, in Brisvegas for a pittance.

Last edited by ren : 04-22-2009 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 04-23-2009, 01:05 AM
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Heya Ren, knowing the RPM you will be running them i bet we will need the steal ones LOL

Okay i have a friend in NSW who has one already ill get him to ship it over to you m8 , there are re enforced steal laminates already on this site for them(just for an idea dimension etc),
EcoInnovation
100 VAC by hand imagine the spikes!

Ash
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:47 AM
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Holy smokes!! Damn, might have to save some of those coils for a generating function. Love your work Ash.
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Old 04-24-2009, 09:08 AM
kiwifreeenergy kiwifreeenergy is offline
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well a couple of us have been working on converting these motors to bedini motors.

The motors have a continuous metal ring connecting all the fingers under the plastic of the stator.
the rotor has a continuous metal band under the magnets.
there are a couple of different motors,most of the ones you will get as scrap will have 42 stator poles,& 56 magnet poles in a n/s arrangement either with 56 individual magnets,0r with 14,4-pole magnets

The later motor has 36 stator poles & probably 48 magnet poles.

all that steel acts as one big brake on the motor.
to drive the motor as a pulse motor we made a 3 phase driver circuit triggered by hall effect sensors soldered on to the original hall circuit board.
recovering energy through the back spike ala bedini.
we removed half of the magnets on a rotor to leave 28 north pole magnets.
(leaving the steel band on the rotor)
the motor ran slowly with little torque pulling about 4 amps@ 30V but the charging battery voltage did also appear to rise quite fast.
another version had 2/3 stator poles removed, & trigger coils added on top of the remaining 14 poles.
this motor is driven by a ssg circuit.

This motor draws as little as 5 watts,& works quite well,however we think it will work better without the steel band & are experimenting with that at the mo.
There are several ways these motors can be configured,& modifications we intend to try:

1 replace the magnets with steel pole pieces & run as a rotary attraction motor.
2 reduce the face area of the stator pole faces.
(the 36 pole motor has rounded pole faces which improve its performance as a wind generator.
3 leave the rotor as is,& change the number of stators to 28,
winding the coils alternatively c/w & Anti c/w making it a single phase bedini motor with n/s poles similar to the bedini fan kits that rick sells.
4 reduce the number of poles to 28 & fit magnets between the fingers,running the motor as a flux switch motor.


If you can get one of these motors to run well,you could place another one on the other end of the shaft as a generator.
the pole fingers all have holes in them,so they could be cut apart & reassembelled in different configurations sandwiched between 2 disks.

If you do manage to get a whole machine, make sure you save the shaft & bearing assembly.

hope this helps,
paul
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:50 AM
tai61 tai61 is offline
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good to hear your your results kiwi. keep us posted
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:42 PM
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Thanks Paul, good to see someone else has had a crack at it. I'll post in this thread when I get something up and running. Might have to look at fabricating a custom non steel rotor for it. Should be lots of fun anyway, liking the idea of multiple ones ganged onto the same shaft.
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Old 04-25-2009, 02:11 AM
kiwifreeenergy kiwifreeenergy is offline
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group effort.

Hey tai where abouts in NZ are you? I am doing video evenings in auckland,I have the energy from the vaccuum videos,
I think that connecting people together who are working on these projects is quite important.

Paul.
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:40 AM
tai61 tai61 is offline
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paul, sounds great, im in tauranga, can you send me email adrress,cheers,
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:40 AM
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Hi Guys, Kiwi thanks a lot for that info, it will help us document this Bedini angle, i saw that now Bedini is using Tesla's impulse circuity with another generator type of coil, check out EFTV part 7 to see, perhaps this can be adopted for it in the generator coils like Ren said.

Ash
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:38 AM
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ray stewart ray stewart is offline
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regarding drive curcuit

i have 3 f&p machines and want to use them as stepper moters to drive a wheal but carnt find a suitable circuit to drive them i also want to test the cop of them before doing any mods any links to these ?
thanks
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:12 AM
Electrotek Electrotek is offline
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i have 3 f&p machines and want to use them as stepper moters to drive a wheal but carnt find a suitable circuit to drive them i also want to test the cop of them before doing any mods any links to these ?
thanks
Here's a site which shows how to build one type of controller:

Make your own cnc controller
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:04 AM
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love that site mate Very cool.

Motor kindly donated by Ash

Guess what, I found one on the side of the road the next day Now I have two! I will discuss some driving options and the standard configs soon.

Last edited by ren : 08-26-2009 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:44 AM
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ray stewart ray stewart is offline
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3 phase

now i have been thinking these motors are just three phase permant magnet moters magnets being the roter windings the stator
i think i can drive them directly form a 3 phase power supply anyone with opions on this??
further as the windings are around a iron core aranged in horseshoue configered magnet operating moter with bedine recovery circuit will not give much if any recouery as most of the energy is used to produce torque this affect can be seen with the ssg moter if you close down the magnetic field around the coil or conect 2 coils together as a hourse shue magnet the doc illistrates this affect in his dvd
any way will try running fp moter and will also measure it eficiancy
i have been using one the same one averaging one wash a day the bearings just starting to growl "hence the collecting of the three others" for over 12 years now origonally on alternate power and they are by far the lowest power users of washing machines i have seen
and am amased that other machines are still made max power draw of around 100w
thanks for the link electroteck looks complex though
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Old 05-08-2009, 02:28 PM
Electrotek Electrotek is offline
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Yes, the driving circuit looks complicated, and it requires a computer interface. Step motors are always a pain. I was really dissapointed when the small motors in CD Rom drives were switched over to steppers. That eliminated one of my sources for small motors. Incidentally, some VCR's have small versions of the F&P motor.

Another motor I like really well is in a ceiling fan, and it's one phase AC. It's also a rim drive - with a stationary stator and coils - and magnets could be added. The inner coils are the primary, shown as 11 in the schematic, and the capacitor produces a phase shift. On high speed, most of the outer coils aren't used. At other speeds, they provide a voltage drop which results in a slower speed. Like the F&P motor, these coils can be rewired to do whatever you want.




Last edited by Electrotek : 05-08-2009 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 05-10-2009, 05:17 AM
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ray stewart ray stewart is offline
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driving on 3 phase

well i tried the 3 phase idea and it runs very well
only drove it on a max of 100v for safty
rpm is quite slow i guess due to the 42 poles
but it is a very simple way to drive it
now just have to rebuild the whole moter so as to bench test as i drove the motor in the machine
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:29 AM
DadHav DadHav is offline
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Hi Shan. Did you mention that you where wandering around in you PJ's when you found the washing machine and decided to take it apart or did I here the story wrong? I was thinking about something. I've had good success running stator motors see them on YouTube - DadHav's Channel channel. So let me get my feet wet on this forum a little bit. I think I mentioned to you there might be a chance of running the motor without changing the magnets. The magnet configuration follows the rules for running three phase so maybe you can trigger each phase with a separate SSG circuit. There might be room to wrap separate trigger coils over whatever is already there or modify the windings. Of course you already know about using hall effects or opto. Here's yet another idea based on my running my two small window motors together. I connected the two motors and used the small one as the trigger source with the full wave circuit. This ran the large motor quite nicely, This also left the two trigger coils of the large motor open to tie together in series, rectify and run back to the battery. The end result still brought me back to a combination that would run at about 2 ma but not self run. OK enough for that but maybe you see where I'm going. One of my next experiments might be to hook a very small stator motor to one of my large ones. Get it a trigger! The 3 phase trigger should match the needs of the 3 phase motor. Basically this might be a way to run any three phase permanent magnet motor without modifying the flux ring and magnets. Incidentally I have very surprising results with the motors I'm running now. I think the stator motor has been passed by while everyone is trying to duplicate other successful builds from our Peers. Come on guys, lets come up with something.
DadHav/John H
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:15 AM
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Off topic newbie type question

I'm looking into the future for when I get this gravity mill project of mine self-running, and I'm beginning to think about a suitable generator to rig it up to.

At this stage it looks like it will probably only be able to turn something with low resistance, though scaled up who knows..

Any ideas about what to look into for a proof of concept?

Love and light
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Old 05-26-2009, 08:08 AM
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Lol @ Dadhave AND Ash.

I dont know if you read before Ash, the day after I got your donation in the post I found one of my neighbours chucking out their......FISHER AND PAYKEL!

Its a different gauge wire, thinner, but otherwise near identical. So now I have two.

Ive decided to use the standard rotor on one and build a custom rotor for the other coil set. Both will have their difficulties I guess.

I will draw a pic tonight of the coil to magnet config, we should be able to drive this directly with a hall sensor for each phase, I can see a suitable circuit already This is how it is driven originally, someone might be able to modify the original circuit if they are clever.

I will probably have to make up a separate timing wheel, but everything else should be stock parts, bar the circuit. Oh and the bearings I guess. Will use the standard shaft, getting a mount made up as we speak.

Regards.


PS. Yes. I was in my PJ's

Last edited by ren : 05-26-2009 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 05-26-2009, 02:17 PM
DadHav DadHav is offline
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Shan. With your non standard rotor, you can select a configuration that would not require three phase operation right? There would be many workable combinations of windings and magnets.
Mount that thing up solid. Who knows. Maybe you're inventing a flying saucer.
DadHav/john h
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Old 05-26-2009, 08:34 PM
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Yes Dadhav,

although, this might require cutting coils and/or rewiring for better results. There are 3 sets of 14 coils already wound in series around the rotor, so it really depends on what you want to do. You could have all 42 coils fire at once off a master trigger, with 42 magnets on the rotor to match.

Ash has alreadly seen me do UFO...


Regards
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Old 05-27-2009, 03:18 AM
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Yup and its good as we can get Ren up here quicker one day
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Old 05-30-2009, 02:17 PM
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Where do you get one of those motors? Did you have to rip a washer apart or somthing.

Matt
Smaller versions appear as generator stators in larger motorcycles (i.e. not Vespas). check how they are wired up first.
Paul-R
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Old 08-12-2010, 03:03 AM
Geoff Perth Geoff Perth is offline
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Hi Guys

I was just doing a search for the famous Fisher and Pykle (FP) linear motor and saw your messages. I have a couple of them (FPs) that is.. here and are about to start on the Bedini road I have a background in basic electronics. I know it can be done as I have done plenty of homework on other areas of magnetism. I have a theory that using the standard pickup sensors and a variable timer we can get success. The basic wiring would consist of a few diodes some transistors and a healthy capacitor. One other thought is using the shaft out of the standard wash machine which is double headed and could be set up to work another motor in reverse configured like a (Dumbell) weight lifting configuration. The central bearing housing I have cut down to make it a hexagonal shape allong the lines of the webbing underneath.This allows a suitable shape to be held down or fixed to a flat board. If you would like more tell me...
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