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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2012, 11:43 AM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Bedini with cap

Hi guys did you find this cap discharge truly better?
What type of uf/voltage found best?
This is the capacitor in the scheamtic cause it's not clear looks like another battery?
Thanks
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2012, 01:06 PM
totoalas totoalas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
totoalas I would use higher capacitance, such as 20000uF and close to the operating voltage of your source (panel) - 25 - 40V max.

V
@Minoly
Thanks, 3 t o 4 hours still great will try to test my SSG 6 coiler , just placed my solar on the balcony but fog and whole day rain stopped me... the mono crystalline can also pick up up to 14 vdc pulsing on the charge controller from 9 am till 4 pm in this condition

@BlackCHISEL97
thanks for the cap size info m hope this woll speed up the charging process...

HAS ANYONE TRIED TO PUT A N S SERVER HD DISC DRIVE NEODYNE MAGNET ROTOR 11 INCHES IN DIA ON TOP OF THE CRT FERRITE CORE 6 COILER ??/

THANKS MATE

totoalas

Last edited by totoalas : 01-15-2012 at 01:14 PM.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2012, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totoalas View Post
@Minoly
... just placed my solar on the balcony but fog and whole day rain stopped me...

totoalas
That's where I like to use inverted trigger SS SSG instead. It will start charging in low light, even on cloudy day. Less powerful but better than nothing at all.


Vtech
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-2012, 04:22 AM
geotron geotron is offline
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Besides the vast storage capacity of a 12V Lead battery, it does not seem
apparent to me why these should be used as the source and destination of
electrical charge when building these motors.

With heavy capacitors in their place, it would seem this technology would
not require a reconditioning and restructuring of the storage medium, yes?

Then additionally, what about the alkaline energy storage cell developed by
Thomas Edison?

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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2012, 06:40 AM
twinbeard twinbeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minoly View Post
try this one.
I did, in a form and fashion. See image for the circuit I wound up using. This charges a 12V 7AH like a madman.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 01-20-2012, 11:58 AM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Scr

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Originally Posted by twinbeard View Post
I did, in a form and fashion. See image for the circuit I wound up using. This charges a 12V 7AH like a madman.
Thanks Twinbeard for sharing. Do you think if I use another SCR and zener will work too?
Thanks.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:07 PM
totoalas totoalas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinbeard View Post
I did, in a form and fashion. See image for the circuit I wound up using. This charges a 12V 7AH like a madman.
Good job mate May I know the input current and maybe try with a solar as well???


totoalas
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2012, 08:16 AM
twinbeard twinbeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
Thanks Twinbeard for sharing. Do you think if I use another SCR and zener will work too?
Thanks.
Just watch your voltage and power dissipation ratings on the components you choose.
I may wind up updating that circuit... not sure until I put the scope on the cap pulser to see if it is dumping properly. From what I see on the multimeter, it looks like the SCR is getting stuck open. Perhaps a larger cap bank, more closely matched to the voltage I am working with...

Enjoy
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2012, 08:19 AM
twinbeard twinbeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totoalas View Post
Good job mate May I know the input current and maybe try with a solar as well???


totoalas
Input current looks like about 200ma with the rheostat pegged at 500 ohms, 375ma at the tuning "sweetspot," and a little over an amp with the rheostat zeroed, so only 50 ohms to the base from the fixed resistor in that instance. The latter drives the fan FAST. The fan is rated with the factory circuit as drawing 2.3A @12V, btw.

Enjoy,
Twinbeard
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2012, 11:13 AM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Negative and positive charge

Quote:
Originally Posted by twinbeard View Post
Just watch your voltage and power dissipation ratings on the components you choose.
I may wind up updating that circuit... not sure until I put the scope on the cap pulser to see if it is dumping properly. From what I see on the multimeter, it looks like the SCR is getting stuck open. Perhaps a larger cap bank, more closely matched to the voltage I am working with...

Enjoy
This setup is giving negative and positive charge?
Zener Diode maybe should open at 18v to batteries what do yoy think?
Thanks
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  #101 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:14 AM
rescoalabama rescoalabama is offline
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cap charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Bedini Cap Charger discussion. The chargers with with bridge to cap setup. Can be with mechanical pulley switch setup, 555 timer switch, neon bulb switch, etc... With rotor or self-oscillating.
I am new to this site but i like what i have been reading, i have been working on cordless battery charger using a capacitor charging circuit of mine which charges really fast, the voltage input from the cap is controlled by the switch speed of a 555 pulse timer. My question is there a way to split the charge voltage and direct some of it back into the storage devise with greater output
at the same time.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2012, 06:33 AM
twinbeard twinbeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
This setup is giving negative and positive charge?
Zener Diode maybe should open at 18v to batteries what do yoy think?
Thanks
It looks to me that while some of the spike may discharge into the charge battery positive terminal, most of it is going into the cap, which then gets discharged across the charging battery.

Probably closer to 20V I think, as the SCR needs 1.7V to begin conducting by itself.

Any opinions on these caps... say 4 in series for .25F @20VDC?
PB Series, Supercapacitors, Low ESR,

Enjoy
Twinbeard
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2012, 09:23 AM
geotron geotron is offline
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How might this perform? The recovery capacitor voltage would
likely be around normal 16V battery charging level.

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  #104 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2012, 12:54 PM
citfta citfta is offline
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Hi geotron,

My experience with that kind of circuit is not too good. What happened for me was when the cap got charged high enough to turn on the zener the zener just starts to turn on. This turns on the transistor but not fully on. The transistor conducts just enough to keep the cap at a level that just keeps the zener barely turned on and thus you reach a stable condition which is just charging the battery the same as without the pulsing circuit. I have been meaning to order some diacs. The diac has full on or full off kinda snap action. I think with a diac in series with the zener this would be a good circuit. I haven't tried that yet so I could be wrong about how well that would work.

Later,
Carroll
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2012, 02:23 PM
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FRC FRC is offline
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Cap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
In the dvd I saw him (Mr. Bedini) using those huge electrolytic capacitors with one of the models with mechanical comutator. These capacitors looked like those used for car audio systems. They are rated 1-3 farads and 24V max. If I recall it correctly, he used two of them in series. So we can assume he never went over the 48V at least with that small model.
I could have bought one of these 1 farad audio capacitors for $99.95 a couple
months back. Does anyone know if that is a good price for one of those ?

George
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  #106 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2012, 07:57 AM
geotron geotron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citfta View Post
Hi geotron,

My experience with that kind of circuit is not too good. What happened for me was when the cap got charged high enough to turn on the zener the zener just starts to turn on. This turns on the transistor but not fully on. The transistor conducts just enough to keep the cap at a level that just keeps the zener barely turned on and thus you reach a stable condition which is just charging the battery the same as without the pulsing circuit. I have been meaning to order some diacs. The diac has full on or full off kinda snap action. I think with a diac in series with the zener this would be a good circuit. I haven't tried that yet so I could be wrong about how well that would work.

Later,
Carroll
citfta,

In the past I've found much the same results as you've indicated with
using Schottky diodes, although what I've not found yet is how the transistor
or SCR would react when the potentiometer is such that it will only let through
sufficient current to turn on the Base or Gate when the Schottky diode is fully
open.

Perhaps the voltage of the charging capacitor would pass through the
potentiometer and meet with the Schottky until it is 90% open, and only
then would there be sufficient current to open the transistor. ??

Other than this, and the diac, there seems to be one other method
utilizing an op-amp.

[ The Schmitt Trigger ]

[ Schmitt's Comparator Circuit ]

[ Google Search - Schmitt Trigger ]
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  #107 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2012, 03:09 PM
twinbeard twinbeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRC View Post
I could have bought one of these 1 farad audio capacitors for $99.95 a couple
months back. Does anyone know if that is a good price for one of those ?

George
That price is a little high.
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  #108 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2012, 11:50 PM
twinbeard twinbeard is offline
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Cap Pulser update

Hi All,

I took the opportunity to put the cap pulser circuit on a scope and watch for a while. I have found that the circuit, as diagrammed, works properly. I changed the cap value to 1000mF @30V. I also changed to a 12.1V zener. I may fool with that a bit more. It works pretty well, giving a stairstepped sawtooth wave across the cap, but only on a reasonably good battery. See attached scopeshot. A battery in bad shape gives a waveform that looks like ringing spikes that only vary by a volt or so.


Good battery:


Not so good battery:


Notice in particular the voltage scale of the two traces... 5V/div vs .2V/div!



Enjoy,
Twinbeard

Last edited by twinbeard : 02-01-2012 at 02:29 AM. Reason: add image
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2012, 12:28 AM
twinbeard twinbeard is offline
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solar

Quote:
Originally Posted by totoalas View Post
Good job mate May I know the input current and maybe try with a solar as well???


totoalas
Hey Totalas,

Forgot to speak on the solar. All of this is running from solar. I have 640W of panels charging a 1600Ah @12V battery bank. There is a 1F 20V cap paralleled with the battery bank. My benches are wired with 12V busses, which I run all of my experimental work on.

So yes, it works well from solar I have another device I will be showing soon that is designed to be powered directly by a dedicated panel, eliminating the charge controller
and battery bank in between, and a Uni-Solar PVL-68 to power it. Way too much power for what the device draws, however, but the smallest in Uni-Solar's line of flexible thin film panels. Perhaps one of their roofing tiles would be appropriate...
In any case, the panel charges a big cap bank, which drives the device in the event of very low light conditions.

Enjoy,
Twinbeard
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  #110 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2012, 03:57 PM
totoalas totoalas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinbeard View Post
Hey Totalas,

Forgot to speak on the solar. All of this is running from solar. I have 640W of panels charging a 1600Ah @12V battery bank. There is a 1F 20V cap paralleled with the battery bank. My benches are wired with 12V busses, which I run all of my experimental work on.

So yes, it works well from solar I have another device I will be showing soon that is designed to be powered directly by a dedicated panel, eliminating the charge controller
and battery bank in between, and a Uni-Solar PVL-68 to power it. Way too much power for what the device draws, however, but the smallest in Uni-Solar's line of flexible thin film panels. Perhaps one of their roofing tiles would be appropriate...
In any case, the panel charges a big cap bank, which drives the device in the event of very low light conditions.

Enjoy,
Twinbeard
Thanks Twinbeard
Need all the devices I can build into my 12 v 7 ah battery ....for now ..until your next big one comes along lol

happy experimenting

totoalas
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  #111 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2012, 07:20 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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cap pulser

Quote:
Originally Posted by twinbeard View Post
Hi All,

I took the opportunity to put the cap pulser circuit on a scope and watch for a while. I have found that the circuit, as diagrammed, works properly. I changed the cap value to 1000mF @30V. I also changed to a 12.1V zener. I may fool with that a bit more. It works pretty well, giving a stairstepped sawtooth wave across the cap, but only on a reasonably good battery. See attached scopeshot. A battery in bad shape gives a waveform that looks like ringing spikes that only vary by a volt or so.


Good battery:


Not so good battery:


Notice in particular the voltage scale of the two traces... 5V/div vs .2V/div!



Enjoy,
Twinbeard
Which circuit are you refering to?
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:51 PM
twinbeard twinbeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
Which circuit are you refering to?
I am referring to the scr/zener circuit I posted a schematic revision for in post #95 of this thread:

Bedini Capacitive Discharge Chargers

I am considering adding the LED to the circuit for visible dump indicator, while moving the voltage down a bit on the zener. Currently I am using two 2000 microfarad 15V caps in series, and a 12.1V zener. It seems about the minimum value for the circuit, based on the waveform. Increasing cap values will lower dump frequency, as well as the current dumped across the battery. I paralleled in 3250 microfarads more last night, which had the dump frequency at about 2Hz.

It makes me want to really fine tune this to highest frequency dump, and have the caps dump into the primary of a small exciter instead of a battery, and see what happens.

Enjoy,
Twinbeard
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  #113 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2012, 07:00 AM
twinbeard twinbeard is offline
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Cap Dump Video

Hi All,

I made a short video of the fan with the cap dumper circuit:
Cap Pulser Circuit - YouTube

Enjoy,
Twinbeard

Last edited by twinbeard : 02-03-2012 at 07:34 AM.
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  #114 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2012, 03:06 PM
Virus Virus is offline
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Hi guys

Just built a cap pulser, triggering the SCR with a neon light, the neon triggers the SCR once and then the SCR stays open,

Iím using a 1000uF flash cap 380v, dumping it to an old 150amp truck battery with 12.43v standing , cap charges in 1 sec, and neon discharges once and then stays open.

Any quick resolve for this? Will to get building a 555 timing circuit later.

Virus
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  #115 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2012, 09:17 PM
citfta citfta is offline
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Hi Virus,

What do you mean by "stays open"? Do you mean the SCR burns out and no longer works? Or do you mean the SCR turns on and won't turn off? I am not really trying to pick on you but the term open or stays open is misused a lot on this forum. People who actually work in electronics only talk about an electronic device being open when they mean it has burned out and is open inside. Think of the old knife switch you used to see in the movies. When the blade of the switch is up the switch is open. When you put the blade down you close the switch and complete the circuit. Electronic devices turn on and off, they do not open and close.

In your circuit if the SCR is staying on after first turning on it is probably because there is still current flowing from the cap into the battery. SCR's will not turn off if there is still current flowing through them. You have to design your circuit so the cap will discharge to the point where no current can flow into the battery in order for the SCR to turn off and wait for the neon to fire again. Unless you have a pretty slow charge rate on the cap it is very difficult to get it to work with only a neon and SCR. You might try increasing the size of your cap and see if that helps.

Respectfully,
Carroll
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  #116 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2012, 01:43 PM
Virus Virus is offline
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Hi Carroll thanks for getting back to me and thank you for your time !

As you can see I am closed (donít know), seems like you are open (can help) ! (got it !)

Sorry, I just tinker with electronics and not to snappy with all the terms etc. as you have noticed,

Yes, that is what is happening, the SCR stays open and I can see the battery volts still climbing after the first trigger, on 1 ste charging the cap it draws 1.8 amps, after the first trigger the amps drops back to 1.0 amp. and stays there.

I have tried a 3300uF cap takes a little bit longer to charge but the SCR still stays open after the first trigger.

I have 7 of those 3300uF caps, maybe I should hook them up in parallel? That will take longer to charge BUT donít think that the SCR will handel the discharge?

Is it safe to assume that a 555 circuit to trigger the SCR in this case will still not close because of the current that is still flowing? If the 555 circuit closes the SCR, it will still stay open because of the current flow?

What device will close even thou there are still current flowing, think my coil is charging quite fast?

Thanks

Virus
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  #117 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2012, 02:29 PM
Virus Virus is offline
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at 150 amp SCR still open

Hi me again

I tuned the system to 150 mA, takes about 4 seconds to charge the cap, the neon triggers the SCR, and the SCR still stays open, how can I get the SCR to close?

Virus

Last edited by Virus : 09-17-2012 at 02:49 PM.
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  #118 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2013, 02:16 PM
catrinisin catrinisin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinbeard View Post
Hi All,

I took the opportunity to put the cap pulser circuit on a scope and watch for a while. I have found that the circuit, as diagrammed, works properly. I changed the cap value to 1000mF @30V. I also changed to a 12.1V zener. I may fool with that a bit more. It works pretty well, giving a stairstepped sawtooth wave across the cap, but only on a reasonably good battery. See attached scopeshot. A battery in bad shape gives a waveform that looks like ringing spikes that only vary by a volt or so.


Good battery:


Not so good battery:


Notice in particular the voltage scale of the two traces... 5V/div vs .2V/div!



Enjoy,
Twinbeard
Hi Twinbeard,

I am curious about the not so good battery producing such a different result with the pulse circuit. Is this because most of the spike is being absorbed by the battery or what? Do your neons fire when this is going on? (I've seen my neons fire when a not so good battery is connected. I think because the battery isn't capable of absorbing the spike since it is bad.)

Thanks,
Chris
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