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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #1681  
Old 12-13-2012, 06:39 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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I have a question that's been bugging me for the last few days. One of the things that I find interesting about the sg motor is how the input power reduces when it is loaded, which is opposite to the conventional motor behaviour. Having watched Electric Motors Secrets I deducted that it was because there was no back-emf or at least much lower than usual. But if I use a reed switch to trigger the transistor instead of the trigger coil then that effect is lost and the input current increases under load. I would like to know what is the difference in these 2 ways of triggering that creates so different results.
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  #1682  
Old 12-13-2012, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harctan View Post
I have a question that's been bugging me for the last few days. One of the things that I find interesting about the sg motor is how the input power reduces when it is loaded, which is opposite to the conventional motor behaviour. Having watched Electric Motors Secrets I deducted that it was because there was no back-emf or at least much lower than usual. But if I use a reed switch to trigger the transistor instead of the trigger coil then that effect is lost and the input current increases under load. I would like to know what is the difference in these 2 ways of triggering that creates so different results.
With the electronic trigger its about how many pulses per second. If there is 1 unitt of energy in each pulse and and it pulses once per second you are consuming just 1 unit, but if it pulses two times per second you are consuming two units. this is because you have a fixed pulse. With a reed switch the contact is made whenever the magnet is close so at a lower RPM the pulses are longer in duration and more power is consumed.
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  #1683  
Old 12-14-2012, 03:26 PM
harctan harctan is offline
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Does it have to do with duty cycle? The reed switch has a slower response and hence at lower speeds (like under load) it gives a higher duty cycle which translates to higher amp draw from the primary. But with the trigger coil the exact opposite happens meaning lower duty cycle and lower consumption. Does this make any sense? If so would it make a difference if I replaced the reed with a hall effect sensor? I'll check it out myself once the ones I ordered arrive.
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  #1684  
Old 12-15-2012, 06:43 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Yes exactly, although a reed switch has a sharper cut off than a transistor provided they don't arc too much.
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  #1685  
Old 03-10-2013, 02:08 PM
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Disconnect the charging battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamus View Post
@Kevin: I would strongly encourage you to do it an hour at a time if you have to, and please post progress reports! And yes, I've gotten bit by the high voltage coming off the power coil more than once!

Well, since I'm kinda stuck at the moment waiting for magnet wire to arrive before I can finish building the current machine, I thought I'd post a few thoughts on it--even though only one coil is present, it's got a diode hanging off the collector, so it counts in my opinion. The schematic below shows its current state.

Yes, curiosity got the better of me and I've tried charging 1.5V AA cells as part of a 6V battery. It seems to work somewhat, though I haven't done any rigorous testing. I did notice that the rotor slows down when there's a battery in the charge position. Interesting! I know that you probably won't get optimum results using these types of cells, but it seems to me that if the negentropy process that Tom and John talk about in the provisional patent application listed in Free Energy Generation is correct, then it should be possible to charge these kinds of cells as well. Just a thought.

Another interesting thing that I've seen (er, heard) with this machine is what I call 'the hum'. One time, before I soldered the components in place, I had to re-hookup the parts because they had wiggled loose. Once I had them connected back together and connected power (without a charging battery hooked up) I noticed a fairly loud hum coming out of the coil! The coil wasn't heating up and the neither was the transistor, but it pushed the magnets of the rotor out of the way so that the coil was in the middle of two magnets. Interesting! The hum stopped immediately as I disconnected the battery. After I connected power again, the hum started again. This time, I tried to see if there was anything coming off the diode but the meter reading was inconclusive. Strangest of all, when I connected a battery to the charging position the hum stopped as well. Curiouser and curiouser...

After I disconnected the charge battery the hum didn't come back, but it did come back a while later. It seems to be a bit capricious, this hum. I did notice that it was much easier to get the rotor spinning up to speed when the coil was humming versus when it wasn't. It seems these machines are full of surprises. And maybe I didn't notice it before, but it seems that there's also a faint hum in the coil of the first machine that I built as well.

A question comes to mind about this circuit. In the PPA in Free Energy Generation it's stressed that the radiant energy capture circuit has to be separated from the drive circuit, but in the circuit below, this is clearly not the case. Also, I have strong reason to believe that the circuit below works well (I can elaborate if necessary ), although some changes in the resistor are probably needed for optimum operation. It could be that I'm missing something obvious--after all, I'm still experimenting and learning this stuff first hand and trying to make sense of it all.
When you disconnected the charging battery, did the transistor burn out?
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  #1686  
Old 04-18-2013, 02:03 AM
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Bedini SSG or Cap Pulser ?

Can anyone tell me does the Cap Pulser circuit Rejuvenate batteries like the SSG ?
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  #1687  
Old 04-12-2018, 03:29 AM
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Filling the core of the spool

The beginners handbook says to fill the core of the spool with sections of 1/16" R45 welding rod. Here in Costa Rica, I've been unable to locate 1/16" rods. Locally they only carry 3/16" rods and I'm pretty sure they're not R45. Would they be a suitable substitute? If not, I noticed Aaron's recent video about Paul Babcock using steel shot as a core material. That's not available here as such, but small magnetic bicycle bearings are essentially the same thing and I can get them locally. Would those work?

Thanks,
Jonathan
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  #1688  
Old 04-12-2018, 07:18 AM
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core material

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The beginners handbook says to fill the core of the spool with sections of 1/16" R45 welding rod. Here in Costa Rica, I've been unable to locate 1/16" rods. Locally they only carry 3/16" rods and I'm pretty sure they're not R45. Would they be a suitable substitute? If not, I noticed Aaron's recent video about Paul Babcock using steel shot as a core material. That's not available here as such, but small magnetic bicycle bearings are essentially the same thing and I can get them locally. Would those work?

Thanks,
Jonathan
The 3/16 will work, but not as efficient because you will get more eddy current losses in the core. But it will still work so you can at least learn the nature of the machine.

The bicycle bearings will be bigger and they will probably retain magnetism more, so no, they are not essentially the same thing. If you get a few, you can test them. Get a few and put them on a neo magnet for a while. Remove them and see if the balls stick together. If they do, then no, they are not the same.
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  #1689  
Old 04-13-2018, 05:34 AM
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Thanks Aaron.

The bicycle bearings I’ve found are 3/16” in diameter (.187”), which is just under 2x the diameter of the #7 buckshot (.100”).

Apart from the magnet test - which I’ll do tomorrow - given that the ball bearings and rods are the same diameter, would you recommend one over the other? (I’m assuming that being “shorter” and having less magnetizable mass, the bearings will keep a magnetic field for less time than the rods).
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  #1690  
Old 04-13-2018, 08:17 AM
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bearings

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Thanks Aaron.

The bicycle bearings I’ve found are 3/16” in diameter (.187”), which is just under 2x the diameter of the #7 buckshot (.100”).

Apart from the magnet test - which I’ll do tomorrow - given that the ball bearings and rods are the same diameter, would you recommend one over the other? (I’m assuming that being “shorter” and having less magnetizable mass, the bearings will keep a magnetic field for less time than the rods).
The bearings will discharge faster, the rods will probably have a bit stronger magnetic field. It's a trade off.
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  #1691  
Old 04-13-2018, 03:33 PM
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I really appreciate this mini-course. I'm clearer about the role of the core filler.

Given that the longer rods create a stronger magnetic field than separate bearings, what about using 1/16” diameter iron wire (available here in rolls, as barbed wire or plastic coated metal fan cage wire)?

On the possible downside, unlike welding rods, the wire won’t have copper coating (R45). Does that coating speed up the discharge rate? If not, what advantage does it provide?

Wire’s also not going to be as straight, so I may not be able to get as strong of a magnetic field (the density of the core will drop if fewer pieces fit in due to bends).

Wire’s also quick to rust. Is rust a disadvantage? I can certainly eliminate it if I spray some enamel on the wire like you did with the bearings.

Another alternative I wanted to ask about is iron filings/ribbons. In one of Dr. Lindemann's videos he used iron filings (and epoxy) in the core - which I began saving after that. They're now rusted, but I have them. I can also get the thin (much less than 1/16”) spiral shavings that come off metal lathes. They could be more or less straightened out, cut to length and packed into the core.

Would any of these options be better than the bearings?
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  #1692  
Old 04-13-2018, 03:37 PM
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I forgot to add this to my last message... If any of those are better options than the bearings, are they also better than the 3/16" welding rods?
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  #1693  
Old 04-14-2018, 04:52 AM
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Magnet spacing

Hi Aaron,

You mention that the (1" wide) magnets should be spaced around the rim 3" apart. None of the rim circumferences are multiples of 4 though (a 20" rim for instance has a circumference of 62.83" - theoretically allowing for 15.71 1" wide magnets with 3" between their nearest borders), so I'll either have to space the magnets a little closer together (using 16 in this case) or a little further apart (if I went with 15). Any advice about this? A preference for one or the other?

Also, I got the sense that the size of the rim isn't so important and picked up a 17" rim as it seemed better balanced. But...most comments in the book mention larger rims. Should I use a larger one?
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  #1694  
Old 04-14-2018, 06:06 AM
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magnet spacing

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Hi Aaron,

You mention that the (1" wide) magnets should be spaced around the rim 3" apart. None of the rim circumferences are multiples of 4 though (a 20" rim for instance has a circumference of 62.83" - theoretically allowing for 15.71 1" wide magnets with 3" between their nearest borders), so I'll either have to space the magnets a little closer together (using 16 in this case) or a little further apart (if I went with 15). Any advice about this? A preference for one or the other?

Also, I got the sense that the size of the rim isn't so important and picked up a 17" rim as it seemed better balanced. But...most comments in the book mention larger rims. Should I use a larger one?
Just keep the spacing of the magnets similar - if you put them on the wheel with tape, you can get a feel for what spacing is idea for your setup and make space wider or narrower. You want the fastest speed for the least draw. Make sure to use an adjustable pot in series with a resistor at the base.
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  #1695  
Old 04-14-2018, 02:43 PM
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R45 coated rods vs iron wire

Thanks.

Based on your comments, I think the answer to my other question is to go with the 1/16" iron wire in the core instead of the 3/16" ball bearings. I'll spray the wire with a little enamel beforehand to add a dielectric layer and slow down rust (it's humid here).

What's the advantage of the R45 welding rod coating (the copper) over regular 1/16" iron wire?
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  #1696  
Old 04-15-2018, 12:33 AM
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copper

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Thanks.

Based on your comments, I think the answer to my other question is to go with the 1/16" iron wire in the core instead of the 3/16" ball bearings. I'll spray the wire with a little enamel beforehand to add a dielectric layer and slow down rust (it's humid here).

What's the advantage of the R45 welding rod coating (the copper) over regular 1/16" iron wire?
The copper won't do anything for you - I think it is just for conductivity for welding. That was used for a long time because it is inexpensive, readily available and simple to work with.
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  #1697  
Old 04-15-2018, 01:38 AM
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I thought the copper had some special benefit that I was missing out on. Now I feel good about the steel bicycle spokes I bought today.

I also got a plastic plumbing pipe to serve as the core for my spool. It's a bit thick, so I'm thinking of using my tablesaw (in an unconventional way) to thin it down a bit so the spokes are as close as possible to the wire.

Can you believe it, no more questions for the moment! Thanks again for the help up to this point.
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  #1698  
Old 04-15-2018, 02:33 AM
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removable core

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Originally Posted by 2SeeMore View Post
I thought the copper had some special benefit that I was missing out on. Now I feel good about the steel bicycle spokes I bought today.

I also got a plastic plumbing pipe to serve as the core for my spool. It's a bit thick, so I'm thinking of using my tablesaw (in an unconventional way) to thin it down a bit so the spokes are as close as possible to the wire.

Can you believe it, no more questions for the moment! Thanks again for the help up to this point.
If you make the core removable by using the plastic pipe, you can experiment with different core materials and document the difference.
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  #1699  
Old 04-16-2018, 07:19 PM
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I definitely want to do that as I'd like to try different core materials. What I'm picturing though is probably not "right", as it could even damage the coil.

I'm imagining removing the core from inside the tightly wound coil to swap it out for another core. Since the coil is tightly wound though I think it will either keep it's shape, or contract a teeny bit when the core is removed. If I'm wrong about that, this idea may be valid, but if it is too tight of a fit, there'd be no room to easily shove another core in and doing so might mess up the coil. I could try to reduce the friction on the new core by spraying some silicone, or putting some vaseline or wax on it, but I doubt that's the idea.

The other thing I can imagine is making a thin sleeve (a sm. cylindrical plastic bottle that either fits as is, or needs to be slit and adjusted then taped shut) to slide my core into which would allow me to easily remove it later. But I don't think that's the idea either, so please clue me in.
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  #1700  
Old 04-16-2018, 08:33 PM
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removable cores

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Originally Posted by 2SeeMore View Post
I definitely want to do that as I'd like to try different core materials. What I'm picturing though is probably not "right", as it could even damage the coil.

I'm imagining removing the core from inside the tightly wound coil to swap it out for another core. Since the coil is tightly wound though I think it will either keep it's shape, or contract a teeny bit when the core is removed. If I'm wrong about that, this idea may be valid, but if it is too tight of a fit, there'd be no room to easily shove another core in and doing so might mess up the coil. I could try to reduce the friction on the new core by spraying some silicone, or putting some vaseline or wax on it, but I doubt that's the idea.

The other thing I can imagine is making a thin sleeve (a sm. cylindrical plastic bottle that either fits as is, or needs to be slit and adjusted then taped shut) to slide my core into which would allow me to easily remove it later. But I don't think that's the idea either, so please clue me in.
If you wind your core on a bobbin/spool, etc. you already have a sleeve, it is the empty air core going down the middle. Take another sleeve that fits just snug inside that one and fill your core material in that. The second inner nested sleeve will be removable.
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  #1701  
Old 04-18-2018, 06:59 PM
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Thanks. That makes more sense to use the rigid material as the support for the coil.
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  #1702  
Old 05-15-2018, 09:35 PM
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Circuit

I've been moving slower than planned, but I'm getting there.

The base is done, I'll finish gluing the magnets on today or tomorrow, the coil core is in and I'll soon be cutting the wires and making the coil.
Then, though I know it's easy, I haven't ever made a circuit so I'm a bit anxious about it.
Looking at the photo of John's machine, I'm thinking of cutting a flat plastic lid or similar to attach the copper strips to - that the majority of the non-transistor parts are soldered too. Copper strips are not available locally, though I could probably get them if it's important, but I'm thinking of cutting open a copper tube, flattening it out and super gluing or hot gluing it to the plastic backing. Will that work? If so, is it better that the copper strips be thick (the walls of the tube are an 1/8" or so thick), or should I try to thin them out (I'd probably use a grinder and/or sander)?
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  #1703  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:01 PM
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Wire length

I have a 150' measuring tape. With some help, I'm planning on using it to measure the wire. Due to slack in the tape or wire, my wires may come out a few inches off. Is there any special harmonics or something about 130'? If my wires come out 129 1/2' or 131' will it make any difference?
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  #1704  
Old 05-16-2018, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SeeMore View Post
I've been moving slower than planned, but I'm getting there.

The base is done, I'll finish gluing the magnets on today or tomorrow, the coil core is in and I'll soon be cutting the wires and making the coil.
Then, though I know it's easy, I haven't ever made a circuit so I'm a bit anxious about it.
Looking at the photo of John's machine, I'm thinking of cutting a flat plastic lid or similar to attach the copper strips to - that the majority of the non-transistor parts are soldered too. Copper strips are not available locally, though I could probably get them if it's important, but I'm thinking of cutting open a copper tube, flattening it out and super gluing or hot gluing it to the plastic backing. Will that work? If so, is it better that the copper strips be thick (the walls of the tube are an 1/8" or so thick), or should I try to thin them out (I'd probably use a grinder and/or sander)?
The thicker metal could make it a little challenging to solder, but other than that you should be fine. Also i don't think a foot of wire one way or the other will keep you from a successful build.
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  #1705  
Old 05-16-2018, 01:55 PM
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Thanks. Being able to clarify what is and isn't important in advance is definitely a pleasure.

Other than soldering issues, the thickness won't slow down the current moving through the copper right?

I appreciate the clue about solderability. I'll cut a test piece and try soldering to it. If it doesn't work well I'll sand/grind it down until it does.
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  #1706  
Old 05-21-2018, 04:08 AM
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circuit component layout

I have a couple questions about the circuit shown in the photo of John’s machine.

Is the copper strip with the resistors on it just hanging in the air in front of the transistors supported only by all the wires connected to it, or is it touching the transistors or even attached to them (glued perhaps)?

In terms of copying the circuit in the photo of John's SG, any suggestions/tips about the order/manner in which to attach the different components?
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  #1707  
Old 05-21-2018, 04:51 AM
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post image

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SeeMore View Post
I have a couple questions about the circuit shown in the photo of John’s machine.

Is the copper strip with the resistors on it just hanging in the air in front of the transistors supported only by all the wires connected to it, or is it touching the transistors or even attached to them (glued perhaps)?

In terms of copying the circuit in the photo of John's SG, any suggestions/tips about the order/manner in which to attach the different components?
Can you post the exact image you're referring to?
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Old 05-21-2018, 02:53 PM
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It's the image from page 62 of the beginner's handbook. I was unable to complete the upload (the window freezes on me after uploading it from my computer. I'm using the Brave browser, which may be the issue).

Having had more time to think about it, I probably answered my first question, which put in another way was whether the copper strip can touch the transisitors without causing damage. I suspect it can given that the transistors are insulated. If this is correct, I imagine I may even be able to glue the copper strip to the transistors. Please let me know if that's correct.

My other question of whether you have advice about the best way to assemble this circuit remains (e.g. attach the transistors to the heatsink first, then x, y, z).

I've watched most of the video of Peter assembling the kit, and noticed that he adds an additional resistor (10w 12 ohm) to the circuit. Should I do that too?

He also says since the instructions are now for constructing the SG in the attraction mode, a heatsink is no longer necessary. This is surely a minor detail, but should I put one in just in case or just make the whole backing piece for the circuit out of plastic (or thin plywood?)?
Attached Images
File Type: png circuit pic..png (1.15 MB, 11 views)
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  #1709  
Old 05-25-2018, 05:38 AM
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Physical details of constructing the circuit

This will be the first circuit I've ever soldered together so I have beginner's questions. Some I asked in my last post in case anyone would like to answer them, but I have another one at the moment.

I'm using the photo of John's circuit as my guide (it's attached to my last post), and I can't tell how the transistors are attached to the heatsink. Can anyone clue me in on this?
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  #1710  
Old 05-25-2018, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2SeeMore View Post
This will be the first circuit I've ever soldered together so I have beginner's questions. Some I asked in my last post in case anyone would like to answer them, but I have another one at the moment.

I'm using the photo of John's circuit as my guide (it's attached to my last post), and I can't tell how the transistors are attached to the heatsink. Can anyone clue me in on this?
Little cap screws
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