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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #1651  
Old 04-30-2012, 07:10 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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SS versus SSG

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrownn View Post
I have a circuit for this but you need to use the power of the wheel to charge the source.

As blackchisel97 says you cant close the loop but you can use this power to contribute to running the motor in a resonant circuit so that the input from the source is reduced. In effect you are running the motor using the power needed for the losses.

In an SSG the motoring is around 25% efficient and the recovery is 85+% efficient. Do the math.
Mbrown thanks for the info. Are you saying that SSG is more efficient than SS?
Thanks
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  #1652  
Old 04-30-2012, 08:15 PM
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so can this bedini generator come close to what im looking for???

and i apologize if i messed up this thread...

ive been looking at the bedini generator for a while now, along with the searle effect generator...

with this simplified school girl build, its closer to my understanding...

again i apologize...
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  #1653  
Old 04-30-2012, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
Mbrown thanks for the info. Are you saying that SSG is more efficient than SS?
Thanks
@Guruji
If you count all energy IN versus OUT in SS and SSG, the later one wins since it also supplies mechanical (23-25%). So, in terms of COP SSG will beat SS. In SSG your trigger comes from the magnets. In exchange you get rotating few pounds rotor.
As efficient battery charger 6 strands SS will charge faster than 6 strands SSG.
An average wheel with 16 magnets will trigger coil 64 times per second (240 rpm) which is 64Hz. Same coil with core will oscillate at 800Hz and aircore at 3.5kHz (those values are approximate, for comparison only and based on personal experience ).

Cheers
Vtech
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  #1654  
Old 05-01-2012, 03:23 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
Mbrown thanks for the info. Are you saying that SSG is more efficient than SS?
Thanks
Yes, when you count all the outputs.

@allen_okc

I don't know how the Bedini would work with your batteries so I cannot say. part of the Bedini system is lead acid batteries and although it can charge almost any battery there are differences in efficiency and also some dangers.

I have damaged Li Ion batteries with a Bedini and one of my friends exploded one.

I don't think we have a complete solution to your problem yet but maybe some other members could comment on a better solution than me.

Nice Bike
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  #1655  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:13 PM
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Thank You Guruji, i understand the severe dangers of charging a lithium battery, thats why i mention the BMS system earlier, a type of voltage regulator/sentinel to prevent overcharge.

ive attempted to build a bedini generator, with no success, but the information ive seen here is a big help...

im pretty sure i messed up on building the coil, wrong gauges of magnet wire and not enough turns, so i will attempt to build another...

i havent read fully this whole thread yet, but i have a question about the wrapping - do i turn the coil wrap clockwise or counter clock wise or does it matter?
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  #1656  
Old 05-01-2012, 12:21 PM
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Thank You Guruji about the bike...

i showed it to let everyone know im sincere about electricity and the application i want to use the bedini generator for...

im hoping its overunity will be enough to increase my riding range...

the next project is a fully electric forward trike where all types of electroncis will be tested on, for experimenting...
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  #1657  
Old 05-01-2012, 01:01 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allen_okc View Post
Thank You Guruji about the bike...

i showed it to let everyone know im sincere about electricity and the application i want to use the bedini generator for...

im hoping its overunity will be enough to increase my riding range...

the next project is a fully electric forward trike where all types of electroncis will be tested on, for experimenting...
There is no overunity device that I have seen working that would extend your range with any real practicality but it is not impossible. Currently I am working on the lockridge device and if I get that figured out I will work on the Edwin Gray motor (Edwin V. Gray: Electromagnetic Association Motor (Pulsed Capacitance Discharge Motor, &c: US Patent # 3,890,548 ) ) I think this is what you need. There are many who are working on this as we speak but as yet I don't know of one that runs in overunity although Gray's did and I understand it was 80Hp.

Tesla built an 80Hp electric car back in the early 1900s so there are two real examples of it being done. Directory:Tesla's Pierce-Arrow - PESWiki

I believe Tesla was the only man who ever knew what electricity really is.
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  #1658  
Old 05-01-2012, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allen_okc View Post
Thank You Guruji, i understand the severe dangers of charging a lithium battery, thats why i mention the BMS system earlier, a type of voltage regulator/sentinel to prevent overcharge.

ive attempted to build a bedini generator, with no success, but the information ive seen here is a big help...

im pretty sure i messed up on building the coil, wrong gauges of magnet wire and not enough turns, so i will attempt to build another...

i havent read fully this whole thread yet, but i have a question about the wrapping - do i turn the coil wrap clockwise or counter clock wise or does it matter?
Hi Allen,

You wind a coil clockwise. When you done, mark start and end on the spool. Set it on the table so the end is up. This is the way you'll have to mount, so the end will be facing wheel magnets. Magnets have N poles facing out. Coil when energized will be polarized N-S, just like magnet .Start wires will go: - trigger to ground and second wire to collector. End wires: trigger to bulb and base resistor and second wire to input positive.

Hope this helps

Vtech
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  #1659  
Old 05-01-2012, 05:32 PM
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Thank You MBROWN and BLACKCHISE - every bit helps...

i would like to throw something out there - lets assume the trigger battery loses charge, which in this case will be ok, for now...

but what if the charging side used something in the realm of a capacitance battery wire in in series, could that help its performance any?
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  #1660  
Old 06-20-2012, 01:43 AM
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Generator back to SSG

I have come up with my solution to topping up the source batt without any switching etc...it seems to stop the drawn down of my source batt....so I'd hate to state what that means...

My schematic attached to this post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
So can this be done automatic with a small circuit switching?
Thanks for response.
Attached Images
File Type: png Gus Generator Output with JT back to source.png (14.1 KB, 115 views)
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  #1661  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:09 AM
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In the schematic you posted you don't have a source battery. You are only showing a charge battery. So what is powering your power coils? The diode as shown would allow the battery to charge but there is no connection from that battery to the power coils. Have you actually built this and gotten it to run?

Carroll
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  #1662  
Old 06-20-2012, 02:00 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiant View Post
I have come up with my solution to topping up the source batt without any switching etc...it seems to stop the drawn down of my source batt....so I'd hate to state what that means...

My schematic attached to this post.
I tried a similar circuit some time ago with a battery in the source and it did prolong the life of the source battery but only by about 10%. If you use a trifilar winding with the output going through the bridge to the source as well as the pickup coil you get much closer to self running although mine did eventually go flat.
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  #1663  
Old 06-20-2012, 02:03 PM
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Perhaps I wasnt clear in my last post. The schematic I provided is a partial schematic. It is part of the larger picture of a 6 coil machine with the 7th coil (as shown the schematic on the left). The output of that 7th coil goes through a rectifier, which then feeds a JT circuit whose output is directly fed to the SOURCE battery. The charge battery is not shown here as it is not relevant to this circuit, as this circuit is designed to slot into the bedini ssg circuit as a direct replacement for the source battery.

I have this running and the open circuit voltage of the output is around 35V.

Just to be clear, the 7th coil is NOT part of the 6 coil system. It is out of phase by 30 degrees to the magnets on my flywheel.

This is not a trivial small pickup coil. This 7th coil is actually 1.5times larger than the other 6 six coils.

I will post some pictures soon. Im just neatening off the wiring to the transistors atm.
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  #1664  
Old 06-20-2012, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiant View Post
Perhaps I wasnt clear in my last post. The schematic I provided is a partial schematic. It is part of the larger picture of a 6 coil machine with the 7th coil (as shown the schematic on the left). The output of that 7th coil goes through a rectifier, which then feeds a JT circuit whose output is directly fed to the SOURCE battery. The charge battery is not shown here as it is not relevant to this circuit, as this circuit is designed to slot into the bedini ssg circuit as a direct replacement for the source battery.

I have this running and the open circuit voltage of the output is around 35V.

Just to be clear, the 7th coil is NOT part of the 6 coil system. It is out of phase by 30 degrees to the magnets on my flywheel.

This is not a trivial small pickup coil. This 7th coil is actually 1.5times larger than the other 6 six coils.

I will post some pictures soon. Im just neatening off the wiring to the transistors atm.

This is what I pictured in my mind from your first post. Very nice!

I would love to see your pictures. Video? - not necessary just my own selfishness :-)

3000 turns, now we're talking.
have you tried the battery both ways? i.e. in the position you have it and also the way JB has it in the SSG... with the negative connected to the top of the coil instead of the the emitter? Just curious if there was much of a difference, and if this is one of the factors that allowed the ability to tie the two...

I tried something similar to this a while back but with a cap between the the genny coil and the JT. And a cap across a pot to the base of the JT. I've also added this to Dr Stiffler's ckt to charge back the primary w/o the genny of course - here, instead I used the two diodes to a cap. I posted a video some time back. It did not pan out as well for me, although I had little patience with it - LOL

I'm giving your way a try today, thanks for sharing
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  #1665  
Old 06-20-2012, 07:54 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Schematic

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiant View Post
Perhaps I wasnt clear in my last post. The schematic I provided is a partial schematic. It is part of the larger picture of a 6 coil machine with the 7th coil (as shown the schematic on the left). The output of that 7th coil goes through a rectifier, which then feeds a JT circuit whose output is directly fed to the SOURCE battery. The charge battery is not shown here as it is not relevant to this circuit, as this circuit is designed to slot into the bedini ssg circuit as a direct replacement for the source battery.

I have this running and the open circuit voltage of the output is around 35V.

Just to be clear, the 7th coil is NOT part of the 6 coil system. It is out of phase by 30 degrees to the magnets on my flywheel.

This is not a trivial small pickup coil. This 7th coil is actually 1.5times larger than the other 6 six coils.

I will post some pictures soon. Im just neatening off the wiring to the transistors atm.
I'm looking forward for this experiment. Great.
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  #1666  
Old 06-21-2012, 08:40 AM
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Great minds think alike

Yes Im aware of the "reverse" JT method. I've found it really does improve it however, for reasons Im still figuring out, at my sweet spot on the machine, the potential is greater between the output and "GND tie" on the JT instead of the "Plus side".

However, on its own, when fed with a 9V battery, the Plus side gives the same result but with reduced current draw...

[QUOTE=minoly;198629]

This is what I pictured in my mind from your first post. Very nice!

I tried something similar to this a while back but with a cap between the the genny coil and the JT. And a cap across a pot to the base of the JT. I've also added this to Dr Stiffler's ckt to charge back the primary w/o the genny of course - here, instead I used the two diodes to a cap. I posted a video some time back. It did not pan out as well for me, although I had little patience with it - LOL
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  #1667  
Old 07-27-2012, 02:02 PM
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Bedini SSG Questions

Hi All

I have built two Bedini SSG's and neither of them charge batteries. The batteries I am charging are lead acid, range in size from deep cycle marine batteries to motorcycle batteries and all have had at least 10 cycles of 24 hours. I have never seen any increase in voltage or capacity in a single battery and I am asking you guys if you might know what's going on. Here are the specs for my machines:

The first has one coil, bifilar, 700 turns and uses AWG 23 wire. It has Lincoln R60 welding rods at its core an is used to spin a spherical magnet floating in motor oil. I can measure rotation up to 10,000 rpm's but the magnet easily exceeds this.

The second bedini is a multi-coil setup that spins a disc with magnets mounted on it. There are three coils, all bifilar, 1150 turn and using AWG 23 wire. The core on this machine uses the same welding rods as the first machine and spins at up to 3,000 rpm's depending on how it is tuned.

Both machines are wired exactly to Bedini's circuit diagram.

Any help would be really appreciated.

Doug
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  #1668  
Old 07-27-2012, 02:49 PM
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you need a bike wheel fo the trigger. ceramic magnets on a 26 inch rim as many as you can get 3 to 5 magnet widths apart. 150 feet bifilar 23 and 26 awg (26 is the trigger) mjl21194 for the transistor. 1n4001 emmiter to base. 1n4007 collecter. 100ohm fixed resistor and1k pot for tuning. ne2 neon collector to emmiter no resistor in the ne 2. also a small milliamp grain of wheat bulb helps tuning in series on the trigger.

if it is not charging, the coils are too small for the batteries. big batteries big coils.
Tom C
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:43 PM
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Complications

Doug,
Your first motor described is not a monopole. It is probably a neo magnet and Bedini says to use ceramics. The ball magnet, as it spins, presents both poles to the coil.

The second motor may be ok in construction, but you have started with too complicated a setup without having a thorough understanding of the workings of this motor. Take off the 2 slave coils and make it run and charge with one coil. It is attainable with one coil. It will run with a small rotor, as you have , but the tuning is more critical. Make sure all "ceramic magnets are north facing out. Remember, its not that you can't make it work with North/South arrangements, but this little beast can be very frustrating if you do not "see" what is going on. Keep it stupid simple (KISS) and you will start to grasp the working of this motor/energizer. Then you can start to experiment in such a way that you will experience stuff that just don't make sense by today's standards . if you still can't get it working, post pictures of your circuits/constructs and we will try to determine what's wrong.
Good Luck!
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  #1670  
Old 07-30-2012, 02:58 AM
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Bedini SSG

Hi All

I have attached a photo of the multicoil machine so you guys can pick it to bits As my phone is my only digital camera, there are a couple of things I should explain as the photo doesn't. The machine is constructed of perspex and 316 stainless steel thread rods (ie. no iron content and non magnetic). The circuit is mounted on a laminated aluminium disk to disperse any heat the transistors may produce. The rotating disk has three ceramic magnets located on its face and they are arranged with the north pole facing the coils.

To Stonewater, the circuit is exactly to your specs other than it isnt built on a bicycle wheel and it has three coils. Each bifilar coil has its own circuit.

To Tachyoncatcher, the three coil motor is a monopole and all three coils are independently tuneable with potentiometers from 0 to 10,000 ohms. The unit is remarkably simple to tune and operate in the three coil arrangement.

Thanks for your replies, if you need anything else to crack this, let me know and I will post it for you.

Doug

Photo0561.jpg
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  #1671  
Old 07-31-2012, 03:10 AM
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Questions

Hey Doug,
Nice workmanship. Hard to see scale from the picture. Some dimensions would be helpful. Rotor size, coil core size. It looks a bit close for a multi-coiler. Think about the fields of the coils and how they interact. Have you tried disconnecting 2 of the coils and their circuits and tuning one coil as I suggested earlier? How did you determine the north face of the magnets and coils? Sorry if I ask basic questions. Many a motor has failed to start due to magnet/coil orientation.
Randy
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  #1672  
Old 08-02-2012, 12:25 AM
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Questions

Hi Randy

Don't worry about the basic questions, its obviously something basic that is causing my problems and I really appreciate the though you are putting into this

The unit is made up of three perpex triangles, each one has three 12 inch sides. The coils are three inches in diameter with a core radius of 1.5 inches and a coil depth of 2.5 inches. The depth of the entire unit including control circuits is 8 inches. The rotor is a perspex disk 6 inches in diameter and I have made a lot of these. All are easily interchangable and have either 3, 6 or 12 magnets in both neodynium and ceramic. I am currently using ceramic magnets only though. Magnets are 2 inches in diameter and are disk shaped.

I determined the north pole by using a test magnet I bought with north and south pole marked and the side that repels north is north. Most magnets are already marked out of the box but I have tested them all the same.

I have tried running the unit with only one coil and it offers a higher spin speed and no charge. I would really love to own an oscilloscope to get a really good look at what is happening.

Doug
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Last edited by boohah; 08-02-2012 at 12:41 AM.
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  #1673  
Old 08-02-2012, 03:38 AM
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My Opinion

Based on my experience, here are the problems I see. Parallel coils close to each other- can cause cross induction to other coils when one fires. this causes drag as the magnet approaches next coil and it makes it imposible to correct with timing. As the magnet causes current when it passes a coil, so can a energized coil cause current to an adjacent coil. Bedini suggests a 3 magnet space between magnets for seperation, I have done ok with 2 anything less and radiant goes away and timing becomes slushy. From what I can tell, Bedini uses 3/4 to 5/8 inch cores. I have used upto 1.125 inch core with success. I tried larger yet (1.25) and radiant went away. I have many reject coil bobbins.
Doug, you need to seperate those magnets and coils OR use smaller magnets and smaller coils for that rotor size. If you can't get it to charge with one coil, then it will not charge with multiple coils. There is a reason Bedini suggests a 22-26 in bicycle wheel for your first pulse motor. Sorry, I wish I had easier recommendations for you.
Good Luck!
Randy
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  #1674  
Old 08-02-2012, 05:08 AM
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Opinions

Hey Randy

Don't be sorry mate, brutal truth is the best kind. I am going to follow your recommendations and make a larger machine with more spread on the coils and magnets. I am also going to make new coils with a smaller core diameter. I imagine I have a couple of weeks work ahead of me though so I might drop off the radar.

Thanks for your opinion, much appreciated.

Doug
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:06 PM
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Whatsup

Quote:
Originally Posted by radiant View Post
I have come up with my solution to topping up the source batt without any switching etc...it seems to stop the drawn down of my source batt....so I'd hate to state what that means...

My schematic attached to this post.
Hey Radiant,
How did that work out for you? My understanding of the problems with charge-back to the power battery is not that it can't be done, but rather it crystallizes the battery over a short time. A chemistry thing with the radiant. You can hot charge a battery while drawing from it, but not cold charge it while drawing from it. Even cap pulsers seem to cause this effect. Now if you could bring it up to speed with a battery, then switch it to a cap bank for power that is charged by that circuit... Well.. . Love to see your rig. Pictures?
Randy
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  #1676  
Old 11-25-2012, 11:50 AM
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My replication of the sg radiant oscillator tube. Made from an 2n3055
youtube
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  #1677  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:17 PM
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I got my 24" bedini wheel going, using 12v batt. And 100 ohm resistor. 700-800 turns of .80mm and .56mm wire, and a copper coated steel welding rod core. I am seeing people say they get anywhere from 1,500-10,000 rpm from their sg's. mine spins 120-180 rpm max. How can i get my wheel jamming like the others?
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  #1678  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpilot View Post
I got my 24" bedini wheel going, using 12v batt. And 100 ohm resistor. 700-800 turns of .80mm and .56mm wire, and a copper coated steel welding rod core. I am seeing people say they get anywhere from 1,500-10,000 rpm from their sg's. mine spins 120-180 rpm max. How can i get my wheel jamming like the others?
Such high speeds are easy to achieve with smaller rotors My MG1 was the fastest motor I built which went over 8000rpm with a 5" rotor (very fast for a rotor that size)

MG-1 : 8550rpm, 712hz, 193km/h - YouTube

For a bike wheel you can expect it will be a lot slower, but remember there will be more pulses per revolution because you have more magnets It might be slower, but that doesn't make it any less powerful!
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  #1679  
Old 11-30-2012, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpilot View Post
I got my 24" bedini wheel going, using 12v batt. And 100 ohm resistor. 700-800 turns of .80mm and .56mm wire, and a copper coated steel welding rod core. I am seeing people say they get anywhere from 1,500-10,000 rpm from their sg's. mine spins 120-180 rpm max. How can i get my wheel jamming like the others?
Yes, What he said. However, what is the purpose of the "Bedini Bike Wheel"?
if we were looking for speed, you might want to look else-where.

You are looking for the spike - it's all about the spike. You want it clean and mean. Low to no Amp draw.
John Bedini has been posting here:

John Bedini

Glad you found these pages at Energetic Forum, but if you want answers that come from JB, the above link is where you want to be.
See you there,
Patrick
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:45 PM
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SG - bike wheel

The bike wheel won't be super fast.

One of the benefits of the bike wheel is that since it has a larger diameter, it has been measured to have more torque than almost any other configuration, even with one coil - close to 30% worth of mechanical work, which is a LOT.

These are not motors so they're not designed to produce much mechanical work but that mechanical work is a free side benefit and the bike wheel gives the most.
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