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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #1621  
Old 09-19-2011, 06:03 PM
Shin Shin is offline
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I have my first Bedini SG up and running for a few days. I tryed to tune the system for the flashing bulb in the trigger wire. I used a 50mA and a 100 mA bulb as single, in series and parallel.
I only get a glimming of the bulb if poti is closed or nearly closed. Any further and light goes off, rotor stalls. In every combination of bulbs.
Then i tryed different base resistors. Difference is only the brightness of the bulb. Different coil gaps i tested, too.
So i'm quite stuck right now
Any ideas what i can try? I'm new to this Bedini experiments and maybe the problem is in my little understanding of the matter (or antimatter)...

Thank you!
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  #1622  
Old 09-20-2011, 05:49 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Once you hve found the resistance required you replace it with a bulb of the same voltage and resistance. You will need to measure the voltage across the resistor.
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  #1623  
Old 09-20-2011, 06:17 PM
Shin Shin is offline
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Thanks for advice mbrownn!
The 'resistance required' is what im looking for. I read it's not max. speed of the rotor, it's where resonance occurs, right? At lower ampere draw. If you say put the bulb in if you know the required resistance, obviously i can't find the resonance point with the bulb...

My only idea was to plot the data over each other, to see the relationship between ampere draw, rpm, trigger voltage etc.
It's very interesting for me to analyse the behavior of my machine, but my eyes can't see the right resistance to go for.

I attach the graph and numbers i measured today.
For me the series 4 to 6 look very good (equals 400 to 600 ohm).
Could you or someone else elaborate where the 'sweet spot' is here?
Or what else i have to do to find it?
My initial thoughts seem to be wrong, that you can see the bulb flashing if resonance occurs.

Shin

My data graph:
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  #1624  
Old 09-20-2011, 06:49 PM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Difficult to tell from where you took the measurements but 8 looks good to me.

You need to measure the output voltage while charging a battery to find the sweet spot. The highest output voltage is where it is at.

The idea of a bulb in the trigger circuit is to make use of the power that is triggering the transistor. A resistor wastes power as heat which is not much use. A bulb is a resistor that converts the waste into light, at least its a little useful.
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  #1625  
Old 09-23-2011, 10:01 AM
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Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudhirpaul View Post
@ zeropoint
What is your setup? How are the batteries turning out?

I have 80 ah and 100 ah, both 12 volts, one is badly sulfated and another is weak in one cell. 80 ah is connected to the radiant charger since yesterday, the voltage has risen from 10.00 to 10.59 volts during the time, but there is no change is the white stuff, coating the cells. All the cells are showing above 1 volt, so there is no shorted cell. how can i boost the process /speed up the process?

Hey,

Here is the latest SSG desulfating the trojan L16's

BM3 Spec SSG Charging Trojan 6V 420AH Battery .AVI - YouTube

Regards
Zero
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  #1626  
Old 10-03-2011, 11:07 AM
John_K John_K is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shin View Post
Thanks for advice mbrownn!
The 'resistance required' is what im looking for. I read it's not max. speed of the rotor, it's where resonance occurs, right? At lower ampere draw. If you say put the bulb in if you know the required resistance, obviously i can't find the resonance point with the bulb...

My only idea was to plot the data over each other, to see the relationship between ampere draw, rpm, trigger voltage etc.
It's very interesting for me to analyse the behavior of my machine, but my eyes can't see the right resistance to go for.

I attach the graph and numbers i measured today.
For me the series 4 to 6 look very good (equals 400 to 600 ohm).
Could you or someone else elaborate where the 'sweet spot' is here?
Or what else i have to do to find it?
My initial thoughts seem to be wrong, that you can see the bulb flashing if resonance occurs.

Shin

My data graph:
Shin,

Tuning to the ratio of highest RPM for the lowest amp draw will get you in the ball park. #4 looks to be about the best. You need to get a 1Kohm pot and slowly adjust it from high ohms to low, whilst keeping an eye on the RPM and the amp draw. Once you have found the "sweet spot" replace the pot with a fixed resistor of the same value.

The purpose of the bulb is to "servo" the SSG to keep it in tune as the impedance of the battery changes through the charge cycle.

Always tune the SSG with a fully charged primary battery and a fully charged secondary battery.


John K.
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  #1627  
Old 10-03-2011, 11:13 AM
John_K John_K is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeropointEnergy View Post
Hey,

Here is the latest SSG desulfating the trojan L16's

BM3 Spec SSG Charging Trojan 6V 420AH Battery .AVI - YouTube

Regards
Zero
Hey Dan,

Good to see you here

Yes, it will take a looong time to clean up those Trojans. Did you flush them out first? I've been having good results with a 12V 70Ah battery after draining the electrolyte, flushing it out a couple of times (whilst belting it with a rubber mallet to get all of the loose material out), filtering the electrolyte with a coffee filter bag, putting the electrolyte back in and then topping up with distilled water.

I'm onto cycle #6 and the battery is gaining capacity with each cycle. Another 20 cycles and it should be a half decent battery again.


John K.
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  #1628  
Old 10-05-2011, 07:30 AM
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Slowly

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_K View Post
Hey Dan,

Good to see you here

Yes, it will take a looong time to clean up those Trojans. Did you flush them out first? I've been having good results with a 12V 70Ah battery after draining the electrolyte, flushing it out a couple of times (whilst belting it with a rubber mallet to get all of the loose material out), filtering the electrolyte with a coffee filter bag, putting the electrolyte back in and then topping up with distilled water.

I'm onto cycle #6 and the battery is gaining capacity with each cycle. Another 20 cycles and it should be a half decent battery again.


John K.
Hey Buddy,

I did not use the rubber mallet trick on the Trojan's and will have to drain,
try knock off more debris and refill with fresh demineralized water.
(I will break down the sulfuric acid with Baking soda, then dilute further)

I have discovered more about batteries last week when I obtained a new
desulfated battery to rejuvinate. (was 28AH flooded cell) It started to take
charge from 5.29V till 12V, then after battery settled was 7V.
I concluded was due to a flake of cadium that I assumed was emptied out
in the flush and mallet cycle
However, it appeares to be still there shorting the battery and put that to the
side. I obtained a replacement from the same battery shop and this was
12.65V and only a tiny bit of sulfations on the plates.
After I flush this and refill with demineralized water will other have to do
a modest amout of work to rejuvinate back to 100%
This was from the counsil. I assume is only 2-3 yrs old and they replaced
due to age, now I have a free 12V 54AH battery

I havent flushed it yet and when I do will add a clip to youtube and shine
a torch in there so can see the amount of sulfation.

Are you using the 7 transistor bike wheel SSG for your tests?


Chat soon mate .
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  #1629  
Old 10-05-2011, 11:35 AM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Ssg

I've changed my pot on my SSG with a bigger one and it's seems that charger is desulphating better with higher frequency.
Ok still experimenting.
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  #1630  
Old 10-05-2011, 12:02 PM
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what range?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
I've changed my pot on my SSG with a bigger one and it's seems that charger is desulphating better with higher frequency.
Ok still experimenting.
Hey Guruji,

What frequencies are you running your SSG with and is it SS?

Regards
Zero
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  #1631  
Old 10-05-2011, 06:14 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeropointEnergy View Post
Hey Guruji,

What frequencies are you running your SSG with and is it SS?

Regards
Zero
Hi Zeropointenergy I am sorry don't know the frequency cause I don't have a scope ;wait I have bought a modern MM with Hertz measure .I will inform you later . Yes mine is a solid state. Just normal SSG and added two resistors to become SS.
Thanks
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  #1632  
Old 10-06-2011, 09:01 AM
Shin Shin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_K View Post
Shin,

Tuning to the ratio of highest RPM for the lowest amp draw will get you in the ball park. #4 looks to be about the best. You need to get a 1Kohm pot and slowly adjust it from high ohms to low, whilst keeping an eye on the RPM and the amp draw. Once you have found the "sweet spot" replace the pot with a fixed resistor of the same value.

The purpose of the bulb is to "servo" the SSG to keep it in tune as the impedance of the battery changes through the charge cycle.

Always tune the SSG with a fully charged primary battery and a fully charged secondary battery.


John K.

Yes, again playing with the bulbs. I realized i have to add more resistance with the poti when the bulb is in to achieve the same relation between A-draw and rpm.

I have written by the way an overview over my first 30 days with my Bedini. So no big things in there, but maybe intersting for other beginners, too.
[URL="http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/showthread.php?t=9464"]

My small Bedini works with 82 Hz right now at the assumed sweet spot. I'm able to draw 800 mA but with some resistance and 380 mA draw it seems to work best and near the state of ZEN.

Shin
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  #1633  
Old 12-28-2011, 05:53 AM
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Bedini SSG - The Culmination - YouTube
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  #1634  
Old 12-28-2011, 07:21 AM
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Hi folks, hi patrick, thanks for sharing.
This might help with the capacitor dump circuit part.
The Esaki Effect - LED Flasher, one transistor - YouTube
peace love light
tyson
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  #1635  
Old 12-28-2011, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi folks, hi patrick, thanks for sharing.
This might help with the capacitor dump circuit part.
The Esaki Effect - LED Flasher, one transistor - YouTube
peace love light
tyson
Hi Tyson,
does that only work at 12 volts? only lights LED?

try removing the resistors, the cap and the LED... works much better...
Take a closer look at the cap dump in my vid... same thing just w/o the extra waste of heat and w/o the limitations. I would not use this for a larger setup however.
Reona Esaki was one smart cookie, yes.
barely a mention in wiki Leo Esaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
here is more:
Simplest_LED_Flasher_Circuit



Patrick
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  #1636  
Old 12-28-2011, 03:04 PM
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Hi patrick, thanks for the reply and info.
So what capacitor dump circuit are you using, thanks.
Also, the way your charging the 6 volt input battery, integrating it with another 6 volt in series with it in your ssg video is a good idea, since the motor will not be bogged down as much, if at all with that setup. Did not think of ever doing that.
Clever method, wonder how that will work with solid state.
It appears that your setup is self sustaining when swapping the series input batteries back and forth, am I observing this correctly.
peace love light
tyson
edit: or are you using a triac for the cap dump.
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  #1637  
Old 12-28-2011, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyWatcher View Post
Hi patrick, thanks for the reply and info.
So what capacitor dump circuit are you using, thanks.
Also, the way your charging the 6 volt input battery, integrating it with another 6 volt in series with it in your ssg video is a good idea, since the motor will not be bogged down as much, if at all with that setup. Did not think of ever doing that.
Clever method, wonder how that will work with solid state.
It appears that your setup is self sustaining when swapping the series input batteries back and forth, am I observing this correctly.
peace love light
tyson
edit: or are you using a triac for the cap dump.
Hi Tyson,
my post was not clear, I am using exactly the Esaki phenomena you show in your vid.

the alternator(or SSG) charges the capacitor until the voltage becomes large enough to get the emitter-base junction to avalanche. Those are PNP transistors you see in the vid. It is kind of like a comparator ckt, it monitors the differential of source and load, then dumps accordingly. different transistors behave differently.
here is another link:
A Negative Differential Resistance Oscillator with a Negistor
It should work fine with solid state, I have it running with the Doc's SEC - LED's lighting while a wireless L3 coil fills up a cap then this Negistor dumps to a charge battery. still trying to get the knack of the doc's capacitance, that SEC is a tricky beast, I can't tell heads from tails when I'm working with it. I don't have the correct equipment so I'm taking a break from it.

Patrick
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  #1638  
Old 12-28-2011, 05:52 PM
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Hi patrick, thanks for reply and info.
Yes I watched your video again and did see the base leg left out and what looks like one resistor, so yes negistor your using as you say, thanks.
Going to setup up a negistor cap dump for my solid state.
In the meantime, I hooked up another 12 volt battery in series with my primary 12 volt running my solid state oscillator, kind of how you have your 4700uf cap dumping into primary series. Though I have to use an extra diode of negative flyback to prevent short circuit, though I notice that if I connect the positive diode flyback to the primary 12 volt and the negative diode flyback to the passive 12 volt in the series primary, the passive 12 volt does not charge.
Though if I connect the positive flyback diode to the positive pole of the passive 12 volt input series battery, then that 12 volt charges great.
Not sure right now why that is, though I'm not using cap dump yet in those tests.
It looked like in the video your series primary batteries total voltage was gaining a net gain, or am i not observing correctly.
So then as you say, you could just swap those two front 6 volts and it should go for along time, i think.
peace love light
tyson
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  #1639  
Old 12-29-2011, 11:24 AM
redrichie redrichie is offline
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Minoly,
So if impedance matching is where it is at, and as you have shown the impedance of charge battery must match imp of coil to get a quick but solid charge rate. then once you have matched the imp nicely on the charge end it appears your primary run battery starts to be able to charge faster than it is depleted because the back end batterys impedance has lowered making it less of a drag to the system. How do you use it?
Do you have a multi battery system and only discharge the battery down very slightly to keep its impedance low? That way when it goes back on charge it is able to charge faster and keep the primary topped off without draining it too long where it cant recover in the time it takes to charge the back end?
congratulations on your system. it is something to behold. ive watched it a few times now. I belive I see the back charged up and the front voltage rising. gaining more voltage than it is using in the system. Is that a correct statement?
I dont believe there is but one or 2 people on the forum that has worked as hard as you on the Bedini technology and your persistance shows.
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  #1640  
Old 12-29-2011, 06:04 PM
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You guys pretty much sum it up. the work comes in w/ balancing everything to get the most out of it. also remembering when you slow an SSG slightly the amp draw goes down and charging goes up slightly so all these must be in balance. C20 on the primary is a must or you will drop out of tune quickly etc... all the basic BM2 stuff. and yes, the front end climbs - I did not have enough meters to show both 6V's on the front - one goes down while the other goes up. I need to put a 555 flip flop on there. If I walk away from it too long, the 6V under load will go down too fast. If I stand there and switch them every few minutes, I can charge the back end without much if any loss to the front, the neos on there are 1inch x 1/2inch rounds - this makes the alternator popping to the front work.
Thanks for checking it out.
Patrick
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  #1641  
Old 12-29-2011, 08:52 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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self charging

Did anyone try the SSG to self charge?
Thanks.
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  #1642  
Old 12-30-2011, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
Did anyone try the SSG to self charge?
Thanks.
Yes. One thing you have to remember; you cannot close the loop. If I can use comparison to snatching piece of cake from the table It is good idea to turn the light off so no one can see it. Similar principle here. Circuit cannot "see" this operation. In other words, you can collect the charge (in capacitor) and pulse back to the primary battery but this has to be done when the primary is disconnected. It has to be timed well and I would suggest using converted negative (bridge rectifier on the output not just a diode). Mysterious S1 switch on many drawing by John Bedini is not for powering system on and off but to be closed for very short time in the right moment. When the power is disconnected from the input collected charge can be pulsed over the primary source without causing too much confusion among ions. Same idea can be used with window motor. Collected charge can be used to pulse secondary or primary battery. Bipolar switch can be used for SSG and window motor.

V
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  #1643  
Old 12-31-2011, 12:40 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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SSG Self Charge

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
Yes. One thing you have to remember; you cannot close the loop. If I can use comparison to snatching piece of cake from the table It is good idea to turn the light off so no one can see it. Similar principle here. Circuit cannot "see" this operation. In other words, you can collect the charge (in capacitor) and pulse back to the primary battery but this has to be done when the primary is disconnected. It has to be timed well and I would suggest using converted negative (bridge rectifier on the output not just a diode). Mysterious S1 switch on many drawing by John Bedini is not for powering system on and off but to be closed for very short time in the right moment. When the power is disconnected from the input collected charge can be pulsed over the primary source without causing too much confusion among ions. Same idea can be used with window motor. Collected charge can be used to pulse secondary or primary battery. Bipolar switch can be used for SSG and window motor.

V
So can this be done automatic with a small circuit switching?
Thanks for response.
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  #1644  
Old 01-01-2012, 12:47 AM
mbrownn mbrownn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
Did anyone try the SSG to self charge?
Thanks.
I have a circuit for this but you need to use the power of the wheel to charge the source.

As blackchisel97 says you cant close the loop but you can use this power to contribute to running the motor in a resonant circuit so that the input from the source is reduced. In effect you are running the motor using the power needed for the losses.

In an SSG the motoring is around 25% efficient and the recovery is 85+% efficient. Do the math.
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  #1645  
Old 01-01-2012, 09:44 AM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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SS

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrownn View Post
I have a circuit for this but you need to use the power of the wheel to charge the source.

As blackchisel97 says you cant close the loop but you can use this power to contribute to running the motor in a resonant circuit so that the input from the source is reduced. In effect you are running the motor using the power needed for the losses.

In an SSG the motoring is around 25% efficient and the recovery is 85+% efficient. Do the math.
Sorry guys mine is Solid State. Can this be done with another small circuit maybe. I once saw a circuit with a neon that when the cap is filled is flushed through a mosfet; maybe if this is modified would work.
Any ideas?
Thanks
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  #1646  
Old 04-30-2012, 01:51 PM
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Hello my name is Allen - i know this isnt the right thread to introduce myself so forgive me...

im a fabricator of electric motorcycles - at present ive built a 72 volt chopper out of a 1985 honda shadow...

my battery configuration is LiFePo4 Headway cells "24S3P", 8ah each

my motor is a 72 volt Mars Motor 9hp...

my controller is 72 volt Alltrax 300 amp...

lighting system LED except for the HD4 headlight all running off a seperate 12 volt battering using the LiFePo4 again...

at present im looking for a way to charge my battery pack while riding and stopped at a red light, with a attempt to extend the range of the 72 volt battery pack...

Thats what im trying to learn here and i need your help - so any ideals or advice would be greatly appreciated...

Thank You...

This is a link to youtube of the bike at present;

72 volt chopper light test - YouTube

72 Volt Chopper - YouTube

...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PICT0182.jpg (251.1 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg new-12.jpg (229.2 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0126.jpg (316.9 KB, 12 views)
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  #1647  
Old 04-30-2012, 05:50 PM
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Hi allen, This may not be practical for your setup, though I have seen patents or designs of cars, bicycles that use air ducts leading to an air turbine generator.
If it could be made so as to not be cumbersome, it would help recharge your batteries on the move.
I know it may sound like it would only slow the bike down, though I don't think it would nearly as much as some may think and then you have the power generated and the air flow continuing behind the bike.
Otherwise, not sure if the motor your using can somehow be wired to recover any of its collapsing field pulses, it would have to be brush-less for that.
Hope that helps at all.
peace love light
tyson
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  #1648  
Old 04-30-2012, 06:44 PM
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Thank You Skywatcher, i appreciate your help - yeah my PM motor is a brushed motor. not the best of choices but it was more affordable...

controller and motor for the brushless with the kind of horsepower i need are very expensive...

turbine is not out of the question, actually a pretty good out of the box ideal...

it seems to me that a turbine could also help boost performance, sort of a air propelled push, i will definitely check into that one...

my ideal is to produce a generator that would individually charge the individual 3.2 volt cells. using i what im thinking of multiple capacitor storage then dumping their charge to the cells individually like a pulse... is this possible?

im not looking to come up with locomotion, but to get a few more miles of range before i need to charge the pack again...

easily done with a on board gasoline generator "hybrid", but my point is to break away from gasoline "combustion fuels" altogether - so that leaves me with trying to come up with ways of thinking outside of the box...

my lack of electronics knowledge cripples me...
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:01 PM
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also i need to use a BMS "Battery Management System",which could be powered by the separate 12 volt battery pack, so very little drain there...

of course the LiFePo4 battery cells have to be carefully monitored, not to let them drop to far below or to high in voltage, or severe damage with severe results will occur to the battery and motorcycle...

im very good at assembly of components, but not creating them...

if any one can come up with a diagram or construct this generator, i will definitely be willing to pay for it, and you will have come up with a solution that many more EV hobbyist's will be willing to pay for...

im not a salesmen or business man, im just a guy who is tired of big oils bull #@$&... and there are many of us who feel the same...

otherwise i feel good about myself breaking away from the fossil big oil trap, my bike will be solar and windmill charged while at work and or home, and if need be on occasion by a AC outlet...
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:07 PM
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forgive me for sounding desperate, but ive exhausted all ideals of trying to figure this out, now im hoping others can help...
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