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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #121  
Old 12-15-2007, 09:53 PM
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WELL I was testing the circuit to see if there was high voltage going to the output by unhooking the charge batt now i have now re done the circuit on a bread board and it works fine i think there must have been a problem in the original one i wired up XD
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  #122  
Old 12-16-2007, 05:35 PM
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this might be stupid but I was thinking of a way to get the motor to self run and came up with the attached schematic ...

anybody tried something like this? Havent tested it yet but might give it a go.
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  #123  
Old 12-16-2007, 05:41 PM
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damn... i just spotted a major flaw! back to the drawing board!
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  #124  
Old 12-16-2007, 05:46 PM
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second try

selfrunner2.jpg
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  #125  
Old 12-16-2007, 10:26 PM
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[QUOTE=Sephiroth;13947]second try

Hi,

I have been reading that John B. suggests that it is not a good idea to switch the charging battery and the primary battery directly, but to either use a capacitor or an inverter because of how the radiant energy works in the circuit. ( I must say this puzzels me as I have seen people swapping the batteries in the circuit all the time )


I also was thinking of making this circuit run continually and automatically. I am beggining to think the best way is to use capacitors to invert the radiant energy back to the batteries. I believe there would be less loss using this method as opposed to having an inverter. This would be doing it the "accepted way"

My idea is to have the circuit running on a timer at X number of hours it would switch batteries. I wish to build like 4 of these to run continually, the gain for me would be either excess charged batteries, or to put the wheel on a wind mill generator to have a continually supply of energy. I know the ssg does not supply much torque, but I was thinking if I had say 4 of these, I should be able to spin the windmill generator continually ( this is my theory )
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  #126  
Old 12-16-2007, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
second try

Attachment 282
you might as welll give it a try because even if you fail you will learn and if you succeed you will learn so no matter the out come its a positive situation


anyways heres my latest i got no multimeter( hopefully will arrive tomorrow) so i cant test it yet its 4 power one trigger 200' coil

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  #127  
Old 12-17-2007, 03:09 AM
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trifillar and litz

OK iv been trying to figure this out, what is trifillar? Obviously sounds like three wires, a trigger, a power and what else? and are litz and trifillar the same? also does twisting the trigger and power wire together before winding make any difference?
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  #128  
Old 12-17-2007, 03:36 AM
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the third could be a second power or a recovery depends on the energy recovery design and twisting the wires help reduce capacitance in the coil
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  #129  
Old 12-17-2007, 03:37 AM
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trifilar

Trifilar is 3 wires. They can be "litzed" or twisted or not.

All 3 wrapped at same time.

I have a few "trifilars" that are equal lengths but the power/trigger are wound one way and the 3rd recovery winding is wrapped in the opposite direction.
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  #130  
Old 12-17-2007, 02:01 PM
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why is the recovery wrapped in the opposite direction?
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  #131  
Old 12-17-2007, 05:43 PM
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reverse winding

7 years ago, I thought that is how it was supposed to be. To this day, I don't think there have been side by side tests.

Anyway, I'd recommend not doing it reversed but just wrap all 3 together.

On an old "dual battery charger" schematic, there is a dot in the coils indicating North and the recovery had the dot at the bottom...I thought that meant to reverse the winding but it means out of phase 180 degrees.
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  #132  
Old 12-17-2007, 07:46 PM
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that's very interesting... did you read a post i made earlier about what i thought makes the transistor turn off to allow multiple pulses per magnet? I could be wrong (not being an electronics boffin) but as i understand if you have a standard bifilar coil with both wires wrapped the same direction and then pulsed a current through one of the coils a current would be induced in the opposite direction in the other wire. Is that right or have I misunderstood?

it could be that instead of the recovery coil being wrapped in the opposite direction, the diagram implied that the current flowed in the opposite direction?
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  #133  
Old 12-17-2007, 09:09 PM
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reverse winding

The dot at the bottom of the recovery winding indicates that it is for taking the spike when the field collapses in reverse polarity and the North is at the bottom.

Even if you have a 1 wire coil and apply power...during the applied power, you get counter efm coming in the opposite direction because of Lenz's law. After the coil is turned off, the loop is open and all the work that went into the pulse comes back converted back to voltage potential. The collapse spike is not the counter efm but happens afterwards.
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Old 12-17-2007, 09:26 PM
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thanks for responding!

so does that mean I've got the right idea?

Quote:
I can't find any where that says what this diode (1n4001) is for but am i right in guessing that when the power coil fires, its magnetic field induces a current in the trigger coil in the opposite direction to the current induced by the magnets and thus quickly turns off the transistor as soon as it opens which results in the sharp pulsing? ...
...and allows for multiple pulses per magnet.
if not how does the transistor turn on and off multiple times per passing magnet?
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  #135  
Old 12-17-2007, 11:10 PM
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c rate= ah/20

is this watts ??
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  #136  
Old 12-17-2007, 11:14 PM
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No, that are amps. If your battery is rated 20Ah, then the recommended charge/discharge rate would be at 1A or 12watts (if you are using a 12v battery).
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  #137  
Old 12-17-2007, 11:18 PM
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watts is amps x volts.

a 12V 7.2ah battery can (technically) create an elecrtrical current of 1 amp at 12V for 7.2 hours though it isnt very good for the batteries to be discharged this fast.

that is why the c20 rate is recomended. c20 is the amp hours divided by 20 so for example if you are using a 7.2 ah battery the optimal discharge rate would be 7.2/20 = 360ma (which is 4.32 watts).
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  #138  
Old 12-17-2007, 11:20 PM
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haha... sorry jetijs! you are just too fast for me!

sorry for the double answer!
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  #139  
Old 12-18-2007, 01:44 AM
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ok thanks guyz its hard to find details about things like that on google
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  #140  
Old 12-18-2007, 06:33 AM
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Trifillar

OK so twisting the wires does make a difference, the less capacitance the better right guess its back to twisting and wrapping my coil again. I wonder if I used two trigger wires would I get more power or maybe two power wires would induce more current in the trigger
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  #141  
Old 12-18-2007, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by splocal View Post
OK so twisting the wires does make a difference, the less capacitance the better right guess its back to twisting and wrapping my coil again. I wonder if I used two trigger wires would I get more power or maybe two power wires would induce more current in the trigger
i'm using 2 triggers and 4 transistors at the moment. Adding the second trigger lets me use much much much weaker magnets but i am getting the same speed from the rotor (possibly faster, hard to tell)

it is much easier to start. Using magnets half the size i was using with 1 trigger (they were double stacked but now using just 1 layer) and have increased the gap between stator and rotor to 4 mm (was 1mm) and the sweet spot resistance is higher than i've got the resistors for at the moment! With one trigger the sweet spot was about 600ohms but now i have stuck every resistor i have on the trigger and it is now 2.4kilo ohms but i think the sweet spot is still higher than that.

Since increasing the gap the motor still spins at a several thousand rpm (no tach so just an estimate) and there is NO vibration from the mounting and the motor runs cold and silent.

I think it depends on your machine whether you need 2 triggers or not... i had to add a second one because 1 trigger coil wouldnt power that many transistors on my motor. Tried triple stacking the magnets but the motor didnt run as fast and was very jerky.

EDIT: forgot to mention the trigger coils are connected in series.
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  #142  
Old 12-20-2007, 02:24 AM
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Thats great info

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
it is much easier to start. Using magnets half the size i was using with 1 trigger (they were double stacked but now using just 1 layer) and have increased the gap between stator and rotor to 4 mm (was 1mm) and the sweet spot resistance is higher than i've got the resistors for at the moment! With one trigger the sweet spot was about 600ohms but now i have stuck every resistor i have on the trigger and it is now 2.4kilo ohms but i think the sweet spot is still higher than that.
Since increasing the gap the motor still spins at a several thousand rpm (no tach so just an estimate) and there is NO vibration from the mounting and the motor runs cold and silent.
That is awesome Actually this may be old news to you but I just figured that out. I made my coil mounting adjustable I had it as far up / close as I could get it to the magnets but the mounting was restricting me a little. I tweaked the design a bit and got the coil to just a hair away from the magnets! Now she is spinning like a champ much faster I think I read that the faster the rotor spins the less amps it draws, so hopefully this should increase my efficiency. I have a 680 Ohm on it now but thinking of removing it and using my 1K pot to try to tune it again. And now I am also definatly going to add a second trigger, that should also help when I add my second coil. Also I saw laser tachs on ebay for about $20 I need to start accurately tracking speed in relation to efficiency.
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  #143  
Old 12-20-2007, 03:30 AM
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Gabriolaman I was in another thread in this forum and saw a picture of your H-Wave very cool I was wondering if you could tell me how you hooked up your laptop to the SG ? I downloaded some software, have a Headphone jack and wrapped a small coil to try to pick up the magnet pulse to measure my RPM. Didn't work Anywho I heard that you can also measure your RPM by the pulse repetition rate of your h-wave. Jetijs said he hooked up one end to the emmiter and the other to the collector. you said you used a variable resistor ( 1K pot?) to tune it to allow the rotor to still run and read the scope with out interfearing with the SG. Is their anything else I should know? does it matter which wire is hooked up to emitter/collector was the variable resistor the only thing you had between the circuit and the scope? I dont want to blow my sound card, but really want to see the wave form and try to use it to tune my SG. Any tips would be greatly appreciated!
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  #144  
Old 12-20-2007, 03:48 AM
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well to hook the sg to my sound card i put a 2 or 3 hundred ohm resistor on the positive side of the mic in and the hooked it to the c and then negitive to the e, i remember playing with the resistor on the mic cable to get it right

and for tunning your sg its best to have a larger resistor on the base and tune with a lower resistance pot like a 25 ohm maybe start with the 1 k get it to where it seems good add some resistance close to what the pot was then uses a lower resist pot here i found this message from john bedini to someone about tunning:

Quote:
Regarding my replication, he said at present the input batteries are drawing maybe 0.6 watts, which is so low it wouldn't even run an LED, so the fact that it is running a wheel and charging batteries on the back end should be an indication that there is something other than just a transfer of energy from one battery to another.

Here is how you find the proper run speed.

calculate the C-20 rate for your input battery. (Cold Cranking Amps / 20 = Ah of the battery; Ah / 20 gives you "C-20" rate)
as an arbitrary starting point, put a 680 ohm resistor in the base of the circuit (defined: "base resistor"), measure the input current.
adjust the resistance from there until the input current matches the C-20 rate or slightly less.
Once you have determined that general region, you can fine-tune from there to find the sweet spot within that region (keeping the input current lower than the C-20 rate).

Current meters can profoundly effect the circuit. Get a 1-ohm resistor from Radio Shack with digital readout, to measure current in the least intrusive way (for low cost).

For output current, amp meters are almost entirely useless for determining what is going on there. Something John uses is to bring a compass (galvanometer) over the output positive wire (with that wire in an East-West orientation). The extent of deflection from North is proportional to the flow of magnetic current in the wire. Also, you can use the rate of charge of the output batteries as a gauge of where the most efficient resistance setting is.

Bear in mind that some potentiometer tend to bounce all over the place, so as you hone in, you might hard wire the resistors and just leave one or two 25 ohm potentiometers to fine tune. They are far more stable than the 5k or 10k pots.

The wheel rotation speed will naturally gravitate to the most resonant spot where the best ratio of input to output current is found for a particular resistance. At some base resistances you will see several resonant shifts as the wheel accelerates after being given a push. You may see it accelerate to one peak, then slow down, then accelerate to another, then slow down, and finally accelerate to a third, fastest peak where it equilibrates.

If you notice the rotation speed fluctuating after it has achieved a nominal resonant speed, it is probably because there is not a strong point of resonance for that particular base resistance, so that is not necessarily a good spot for the best performance.

Rather than have one diode coming from the collector of the transistor and then another diode going to each battery, just have one diode per battery coming straight from the collector.

Try and balance the length of wires going to each of the batteries.

Use 12 gauge wire to connect the batteries.

Try and balance the length of wire going from the negative of the charging batteries to the positive of the input battery, branching right at the positive terminal, rather than bridging the negative terminals one after another, then going to the positive terminal. This particular modification doesn't make sense electrically (that it would make any difference), but we are not talking about regular electricity. This particular modification is not a huge factor, but could possibly result in some improvement.

We've specified 20 & 23 awg magnet wire, but larger gauge will produce lower impedance, which will improve the charging effect. (20 is fine for now, for the stage of learning we are at, but eventually we will progress to running 500 Watt inverters.)

I will significantly improve my system by doing more winds than what I now have on my coil (~425 turns). I have the wire, I just need to do it. John predicts that my rotation will go from 300rpm max that I'm seeing now, up to ~500 rpm once I make this one change.

You don't want to get your magnets closer than 1.5 width apart from each other, but the more magnets the better.

As has been mentioned, to help contain your magnets from flying off your rotor, boxing tape with fibers can be woven around the wheel over the magnets; perhaps 2-4 turns around the circumference of the wheel.

Regarding my recent attempt to recharge a non-rechargeable Alkaline battery, he said that "you can't put the Zink back on. however, NiCd and rechargeable alakalines work just fine. Regarding Lithium Ion batteries, he said that you have to be careful because they usual contain a circuit breaker that renders the battery useless if a certain charge is put across it, to keep it from exploding.


Regarding the result I reported yesterday of the battery capacity increasing while just sitting there, disconnected from anything, John said that he and Peter have observed batteries continue charging 13 - 20 hours after being disconnected from the circuit.

If you want your motor to produce torque (which the Bedini circuits are not good for, as they are designed for charging batteries, not for being a prime mover), you can employ the hall effect or opto switching, but that this draws much more current. The most efficiency you can hope for is 29%.

One of the ways you can tell that there is an unusual charging effect taking place is to add a neon bulb in series with your battery, between the positive wire coming from the circuit and the battery. This shows that there is at least 60-70 volts above your battery coming into the battery.

He said the motor "runs on a hidden scalar" as a function of the timing of when the magnet is repulsed as it passes beyond the core, and the charge of the core lingering.

"Radiant Energy" behaves more like a gas.

"There is a neutral spin current," he said, whatever that means.

"Perhaps the best word for what you have built (the Bedini SG) is magnestatic energizer -- a self running magneto, with magnets all of the same pole."

Generators require magnets of alternating N-S poles.

What John has done is combine a motor and a generator.

As soon as the magnet leaves the pole of the electromagnet created in the core, there is a discharge in the coil, the transistor fires, triggering a pulse that then propels the motor.

He said something about a picture he drew based on my replication in which he shows what he calls "quarternions," "hidden field," "a scalar field," "imaginary magnetics."

It think I need more background before understanding what it was he was saying. Ironically, he said that the best article he's ever read on monopoles was written by myself. I assured him that I was merely reporting what James Fauble had relayed to me.
High Energy Magnetic Monopole Sequestered by U.S. Government

He has been quietly following the work James Fauble is doing with the Ion Source Beam Projector, and believes James is onto something there. I forwarded them an image John then sent me by email which explains how to build the monopole magnet they've been trying to source by using two ring magnets, one inside the other.

John has been grateful for the documentation that is taking place as a result of this Bedini SG project.

He says, "English is my second language. Math is my first."

While he can read as well as the next person, he has a difficult time composing his thoughts into words, and remembering the proper rules of word construction. He calls it "dyslexia" for lack of a better word. He doesn't want his work to go to the grave with him, so he is glad we are doing what we are doing.
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  #145  
Old 12-20-2007, 06:15 AM
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Much appreciated

That was great info, I think that was the most detailed info regarding tuning that I have seen. Lots to do! Need to wind a trifillar, need to add more turns to my coil, need to find the sweet spot and setup my scope, need to go Christmas shopping! Haha! thanx again Gabriolaman heres some pix of my SG. Plenty of room to and more coils, my plan is to add at least 8 coils one per magnent.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 100_3254.JPG (835.1 KB, 109 views)
File Type: jpg 100_3259.JPG (941.9 KB, 110 views)
File Type: jpg 100_3255.JPG (766.8 KB, 108 views)
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  #146  
Old 12-24-2007, 03:11 PM
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Ultra Super Pole?

Hi friends!

I wanted to move on to a more advanced Bedini charger, so I'd like to know what do you think about the attached picture for forming a more powerful scalar north?
I am about to use powerful multi-strand stators so I thought to consider some improvements to the rotor also.

Elias
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  #147  
Old 12-24-2007, 03:43 PM
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Hi elias and merry Christmas to you
I have tried one "superpole" setup, but that was only stacking two N poles together and it did not work well. I did not notice any difference in charging time, but the rotor speed was slower and the torque was also a lot less. I would like to hear what Kevin has to say, because he said that he will try to test his superpole setup, that is a little different from ours where we are just stacking two N poles together. He said that he was able to get the COP >1 with this pole setup. I wonder if he has done his testing
Anyway, I made a simple simulation of your magnet setup. Here you see how the field looks if we stack two N poles together:


And here is your setup with 3 magnets:



Thanks,
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  #148  
Old 12-24-2007, 06:30 PM
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elias - I tried that exact same set up! lol... though i got similar results to Jetijs. The rotor was slower and didn't appear to run as smoothly though I have a theory!

From what I understand nearly all the "free energy" in this motor is in the initial switching on of the transistor. This creates a temporary dipole where energy from the zero point is then released (the initial peak in the h wave?). I believe that most of the work done spinning the rotor is from this initial peak and then the current follows and kills the dipole. The current also repels the magnet but not as strongly as the "radiant spike".

Any current used is essentially a loss (though this schematic recovers most of the current in the charging battery) so we want the switching time to be as narrow as possible so that we get just the radiant spike and as little of the annoying current that follows it possible.

This would be the advantage of using a super pole! It creates a very narrow north field. Though I think this narrow north is useless unless you use a core to match its diameter. If the core is wider than the north then it is going to attract the south as well as repel the north and the pulse duration is going to be just as long as it was using a standard north. I think this is the problem I was having with it.

I am going to try it again though this time the end of my core will be wedge shaped. This should reduce the pulse duration by almost 10 fold and hopefully yeild better results.



Though here is a second thought... I have been experimenting with a few different configurations of the schematic to study what is happening and the most interesting thing I have found is that if you connect the 1n4007 diode back to the primary battery's positive (without a charging battery attached) the current draw is incredibly less than when a charging battery IS attached though with the same performance from the motor.

Now this would lead me to believe that most of the energy going into the charging battery is, in fact, from the primary battery and isn't coming from the zero point. If I was a skeptic, I would say that this is evidence against the motor being over unity.

However, I am NOT a skeptic

I think all the "free energy" is in that initial spike when the dipole is created and before the current reaches it. I don't think that spike charges the batteries. So for this to be truly over unity we need to harness more energy from the initial spike to go into the batteries.

Also been playing with some small window coils and I think the next thing I will try is wrapping the coil's exterior with a few (not many) layers of wire creating a compact window coil around the power coils. I think this might have the same effect as the plates inside Gray's conversion tube and capture some of the radient coming from the coils when they pulse. I will then feed these straight into the charging battery and hopefully get solid over unity.

Then again this whole rant is just speculation from my observations! I'd be intersted to hear what anyone with more experience thinks about my ideas.

oh! and

Jesus! lol Have a great Christmas guys!
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Old 12-24-2007, 08:45 PM
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elias elias is offline
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Lightbulb Scaler North has more pressure and is sharper, but lower area of effect

Hi, Merry Christmas to you all too

Jetijs, Thanks for your simulations, but remember that these software are designed by skeptics by using an incomplete model, and may not be considering most of the mysteries in magnets.
I did a simple experiment by using a compass to measure the strength of the scalar north and it was not so much.

The first thing came to my mind when Bedini commented about pushing two north poles together was the attached picture. (I had thought about this, even before Bedini stated so, now see why patenting things are not a very good idea, because all of us are sharing the same data in the sea of subconscious, but not willing to access it). Maybe I'll use the following geometry, which has both the normal magnet and a sharp one in the middle where those norths are pushing against each-other.
BTW, I have in my mind using this sharp north principle for N-machines. I think that it will increase the current output way much. Unfortunately it is not so simple to build!

I think that super-poles are razer sharp aether streams.
Thanks for your wonderful inputs,

Elias
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File Type: gif ultrasuperpole2.GIF (1.9 KB, 541 views)
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Last edited by elias; 01-15-2008 at 12:12 PM.
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  #150  
Old 12-24-2007, 09:29 PM
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elias elias is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post

Though here is a second thought... I have been experimenting with a few different configurations of the schematic to study what is happening and the most interesting thing I have found is that if you connect the 1n4007 diode back to the primary battery's positive (without a charging battery attached) the current draw is incredibly less than when a charging battery IS attached though with the same performance from the motor.
Hi Sephiroth,

In this thread: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...g-secrets.html
I discuss the fact that conventional calculation does not make sense in these circuits (pulsed circuits), Because disconnecting the Battery from the output SHOULD not affect the current draw according to conventional theories. But as you have stated it does affect. So we must ask how? How is it so that the Primary Battery recognizes the secondary battery when it is attached?

This is my conclusion: The electron current is pumped to the coil to generate aetheric current to charge the secondary battery. The aether is somehow acting in the coil as a magnetic field and is influencing the current draw from the primary battery, because the secondary battery has not been directly attached to the primary. When one disconnects the battery, the aether somehow prevents more current to be drawn. In summary, We PAY for the electron current to TAP the aetheric energy.

Elias
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