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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #1381  
Old 11-25-2009, 01:06 AM
redeagle redeagle is offline
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Worlds most efficient ferris wheel anybody? Runs so slow you don't stop to change people. But you only get to go around once.

If i do build it as intended i already have a name picked out. "Bedini 8100" May even throw in an 8100 turn generator coil just for kicks.

In reality though I still have to locate axle, bearings, and a flange to mount the rotor to the axle.i'm looking at getting an axle that I can easily find pulleys for, just in case i want to use the torque for a piston pump or something.

Hopefully the grainger store won't be closed.
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  #1382  
Old 11-25-2009, 03:53 PM
wrtner wrtner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redeagle View Post
A bigger wheel will give more torque. Much like putting a longer handle on a ratchet to loosen a tight nut. But you are sacrificing rpm to do it.
The number of magnets passing per second should be similar (all other
things being equal). The large wheel may run slowly.
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  #1383  
Old 11-25-2009, 06:52 PM
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Of course. The skate wheel Bedini's run at blinding speeds and the larger wheels run slower ( but more mass! ) . The magnet wheel is a resonant attachment, like a switch and an indicator, but less of a electric motor with torque and acceleration. A larger wheel would have much less stress on the bearings because it goes slower, but it would be heavier to carry around if you had to move (trust me), and a larger wheel would be harder to "get right" because lets say you use 20 magnets, thats 20 spaces that have to be identical, where a skate wheel Bedini would have 4 or so, and eyeballing it could be enough.
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  #1384  
Old 12-03-2009, 08:30 AM
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Rick's new website and photos of the 10 coiler kit which is now available.

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  #1385  
Old 12-04-2009, 03:11 PM
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less than a novice.

Good day to all.
I really enjoy reading this forum. And i'd like to thank everyone for the great knowledge that is being passed on here. Can't say i've read every post yet.. But I will get to it.

I'm putting together my first bedini replica. I'm not at all an electrician.
Not joking about the electrician part.
but I fell in love with the idea of the Bedini ssg motor.

So I've put one together. For the moment it has 4 coils, two that are bi wound coils and two that are single wound coils.
One of the bi wound coils has two slave coils that tie into the same transistor.

The motor runs at around 300 rpm +/- . I can run it faster (I've had it up to around 600rpm) but it doesn't seem to help, only runs down the battery faster.
I have 1 7.5aH battery that I use for running. And three 600aH batteries that I charge.
The 7.5aH battery will charge to 13.8-14+ voltage, the 600aH batteries I haven't been able to get over 12.5 volts.
The solo bi wound coil pulls 130 milliamps (haven't tested yet what it gives on the other end.), the bi wound coil with two slaves pulls 135 milliamps, and puts out 70-75 milliamps. I haven't yet done the 1 ohmn test.
So anyway that's a little info on my system.
Here are a couple questions I have.
first does each coil need it's own circuit or is it fine the way I have it running where three coils run on the same circuit. Does it actually put out more potential if each coil has it's own circuit. I understand that not every coil needs a trigger coil.
Second question, How do you know when a battery has taken every thing it can and is charged.
and Third, does having more than one pulse coil on each coil actually give more potential current.
I'd like to get the system up to charging the 600 ah batteries a little faster and also higher than 12.5 volts.
I must say I am very impressed with the motors ability to salvage bad batteries as the three 600 ah batteries that I have all sat at 5 volts and would loose any charge you put in them in less than two hours know they hold 12.5 indefinitely.
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  #1386  
Old 12-09-2009, 12:41 AM
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Hello, I am a new builder myself. I have a comment about the batteries that will not charge above 12.5 Do you have them connected in parellel across the output? Or do you charge 1 at a time? I have found that the batteries, if charged one at a time, will charge faster than if charged in parellel. That said, it has been my experience that these batteries will come to a plateau when being charged, say 12.45 volts, this is when I stop the charger and let the batteries sit for about an hour and then discharge them using the c20 rate. After it is are discharged, (not below 12.2), I stop the load test. I then wait for the battery to sit for about an hour, then start charging it again. If your motor is running correctly, and it doesn't look to be a bad setup, the batteries will start taking on more and more of a charge. After several charge and discharge iterations the battery will begin to increase its top charge plateau. I figure, and I am no expert, when they have recieved their top charge voltage when the batterey voltage tops out. I started with my batteries at 9 volts.. they desulfated, and held a charge at 12.25 volts. After 20 cycles as described above the batteries are now charging to 12.65. They now continue to climb. Hope this helps... I have 6 coils around a 6 magnet rotor, with the same configuration as you, All my coils are trifilar wound with one trigger for all. As for you other questions I'll have to think about cause I only know so much.

Sean
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  #1387  
Old 12-09-2009, 01:07 AM
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Hello,

I'm not sure whos all out there listening.... I have found that a magnetic switch in a wand can give you feedback on the workings of the motor. It has shown me a few flaws in my motor as far a symmetry. I have more magnetism coming out between different sets of coils. I believe I am seeing the south spike coming out between the coils as my light connected to the magnetic swith has different intensities with different poisitioning around the motor. If I place the switch on the core of my coils I get different light intensities around the rotor. My charge batteries have been charging at an average of 150% C.O.P., sometimes more, sometimes less.. Im not saying Im getting more total energy out than in, becasuse my power source is still plugged into the wall.. I hope to generate some interest on this posting again as my brother and I have come up with some good stuff. I am the designer and my brother builds all this stuff.

Sean

Sean
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  #1388  
Old 01-19-2010, 09:42 AM
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Mechanically triggered SG from harddisk

Since I have a couple of broken harddisk laying around I had plan to make a bedini school girl with mechanical switch. Just build it and run it today and....

Work at 60 RPM .

Only on repulsion mode though. Can not make it sustain using attraction mode.

Magnet are taken from two identical harddisk. The rotating part is the disc. The coil is harddisk head coil. Other component: NPN transistor, diode and 12V battery.

NPN transistor is triggered by mechanical means via 100 ohm on the base. No spark, it rotate . Timing is done via sticky tape lol.

Maybe I need to add weight...
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File Type: jpg bediniharddisk2.jpg (17.9 KB, 47 views)
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  #1389  
Old 01-20-2010, 04:10 AM
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Turn out I need use both repulse and attract trigger for my Bedini SG. I can not add too much weight (no space). Still turn slow and jerky.

YouTube - Mechanically triggered Bedini SG with harddisk component
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  #1390  
Old 02-26-2010, 02:58 AM
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John Bedini Group Comments

http://www.energeticforum.com/17709-post433.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
For anyone who has not been involved with the Bedini SG group that was recently closed, I compiled the messages from John Bedini as he was posting them. I only have this from The end of Feb until a few days ago and it has a lot of valuable information that he has never really discussed openly before.

This link is the PDF: John Bedini SG yahoo group comments , it is 91 pages

It might take a few hours to go through this, but if you want to learn about the SG, it is best to hear straight from John.
I have re-enabled this document since it rightfully belongs in the public
domain as it ALREADY is in the public domain since every message is from
the Bedini SG yahoo group.

John Bedini SG here it is, 91 pages pdf.

I removed this document quickly after accusations came up that I copied
the posts from a private group, which actually never happened. Any
messages that were originally in a private group and were placed into this
document is because John placed them into the public Bedini SG group
himself. Therefore, I took them from the public group and placed it into
this document.

There is a lot of good information in this document that I would recommend
that anyone read this document that is interested in the SG.
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  #1391  
Old 06-13-2010, 09:03 PM
sagemillion sagemillion is offline
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24vdc

thanks, blackchisel97 for the wake up call, Its clear there is no turn key path to a system that truly works via a plans and kit approach. I spent $47 for the platinum package under the assumption I was receiving plans to build a system that will run my home. clearly the amount of information therein is worth the money, I waste more than that in any experiment I do, but I do feel I was lead to believe I was receiving something else. after reading your post, I now understand the years of experimenting,the cost and so on. he went through to get here, I also was led to believe this was all about changing the world. all things in this world are commerce and nothing more. I am studying sovereignty, I have learned one thing about the concept, commerce,commerce, that is the name of the game,big fish eat little fish, I propose we teach little fish to eat big fish. with that said, here is my base line. I am building a boat in my front yard. I need to build a 24VDC charging system,is it possible for some folks herein to work on said system without the cost loss, to arrive at a print for a 24vsc/SG that every one could benifit from
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  #1392  
Old 06-14-2010, 02:45 AM
Slinky Slinky is offline
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in need of help

Firstly, huge thanks to everyone who has contributed to this and the other schoolgirl threads. I have really enjoyed reading the developments.
I was hoping I would have a working model by the time I ran out of bedini stuff to read and watch but alas, failure upon failure for an embarrassingly long time.
So what is the longest ot took for anyone to get an ssg working?

It was kinda funny at first and I just took it on the chin in the name of learning, now i'm just super frustrated, all of my growing confidence in electronics has been shattered.
I tried the imhotep fan also, many, many times but no config of winding and stator would do it for me and no one seems to have documented winding in relation to stator configuration in a clear way, I would try if I understood and could replicate.



This is roundabout my 5th effort and I have some larger ferrite magnets and bmx wheel and plastic glue on its way for one last ditch effort as near as I can to the tried and tested spec of magnets and coils.

The rest of the pics are here, just so I don't spam this thread with a ton crappy pics.
Picasa Web Albums - 10121820862114308... - SSG

57.3 ohm resistor
1.5k ohm 50w pot
diodes are 1n4007 and 1n4001
Magnets are 6.5mm x 4.5mm x 11mm triple stacked

Coil is 300 turns bifiliar 20 and 26 swg, north at the top when positive at end of wrap and negative at the start (inside)

Pair of 6v 1.2ah batteries for primary and secondary, primary measure 12.5v, charge battery pair is 6.7

I get a swift neon flash when connecting leads on and off here and there, wheel just spin freely for about 30 seconds til stop. I thought borrowing a scope to see what was going on would help but I think all i get is 0.2v interfered sine wave of the collector when I spin the wheel.
I wish I had enough action going on to worry about burning transistors, once would be kinda re-assuring that I had a coil collapse

Cheers again, this and a couple other threads are the only thing that kept my interest throughout the fails
Any help is most appreciated, I got a happy dance pent up for far too long
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  #1393  
Old 06-14-2010, 04:10 AM
Ted Ewert Ted Ewert is offline
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@ Slinky,
Your build looks pretty decent. The biggest problem I see is the gap between your coil and rotor is way too big. It should be as small as you can get without touching.
I would also get rid of the core protrusion. Make the core as flush with the coil as you can. This will induce much more current into your trigger coil, which will help in turning on your transistor.
You might also want to anchor the coil down. Besides poor performance, it could flop around and bounce up into the rotor.
Don't worry about which way you wound your coil either. Try it with one polarity, and if that doesn't work, switch the wires. Which ever way pushes the magnets away is the right way.
Try these things and see how it works.

Ted
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  #1394  
Old 06-14-2010, 04:50 AM
Joit Joit is offline
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Well, not sure about the Gap, Ted.
I did change the Distance sometimes a bit, and it did run better when it was not to close.
Its somehow strange at this Motor, but the Impuls comes from the Batterie,
and with the right Gap i could get higher RPM and lower drain from the Source.
I guess, its maybe different for each Build, and you should measure all time,
wich one works better, in- and output.
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  #1395  
Old 06-14-2010, 03:27 PM
Ted Ewert Ted Ewert is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joit View Post
Well, not sure about the Gap, Ted.
I did change the Distance sometimes a bit, and it did run better when it was not to close.
Its somehow strange at this Motor, but the Impuls comes from the Batterie,
and with the right Gap i could get higher RPM and lower drain from the Source.
I guess, its maybe different for each Build, and you should measure all time,
wich one works better, in- and output.
That's a different situation. Slinky was wondering why his rig didn't work. I was saying that with a gap as big as his, there wouldn't be enough signal induced by the magnets passing the coil to drive his transistor.
BTW, top speed of a motor has nothing to do with the efficiency of the motor. I realize the SG isn't used as a motor, but the principal still applies. Speed has to do with back EMF induced into the stator coil by the passing magnet. This would decrease with a wider gap and consequently the speed would increase.
This is also why an increase in voltage increases the speed. The rotor has to travel faster in order to generate enough BEMF to equal the voltage level in the stator.
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  #1396  
Old 06-14-2010, 11:43 PM
Slinky Slinky is offline
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Thanks for the reply Ted.

I closed the gap up to about 2.5mm and have loads more pull in the magnets to the core but no change elsewhere.

The layout is based on Daftman's layout here:
YouTube - theDaftman's Channel

I left the neon connected to annode of the 1n4007 like the SSG patent but Daftman has it to the cathode. Is there any difference here?

Also when wiring up the coil to the circuit on the board, he clearly states start and end of the windings. Would I be right in assuming the start is the inside of the coil and the end is the outside - clockwise winding if looked down upon - generates a north magnetic field out the top when battery negative is to the start of winding and battery positive is to the end of the winding?

If so then how is the wheels north magnet attracted to the north of the coil if opposites attract? Is because there is no north until the magnet induces a charge?

The step by step breakdown by shamus and seph earlier in this thread was really helpful for my understanding, however i'm still unsure when my coil should be energized in relation to the magnet and what polarity. Anyone got a link for a detailed flow breakdown, does the radiant come after the collapse or is the collapse considered the radiant?

I long for a h wave
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  #1397  
Old 06-15-2010, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slinky View Post
Thanks for the reply Ted.

I closed the gap up to about 2.5mm and have loads more pull in the magnets to the core but no change elsewhere.

The layout is based on Daftman's layout here:
YouTube - theDaftman's Channel

I left the neon connected to annode of the 1n4007 like the SSG patent but Daftman has it to the cathode. Is there any difference here?

Also when wiring up the coil to the circuit on the board, he clearly states start and end of the windings. Would I be right in assuming the start is the inside of the coil and the end is the outside - clockwise winding if looked down upon - generates a north magnetic field out the top when battery negative is to the start of winding and battery positive is to the end of the winding?

If so then how is the wheels north magnet attracted to the north of the coil if opposites attract? Is because there is no north until the magnet induces a charge?

The step by step breakdown by shamus and seph earlier in this thread was really helpful for my understanding, however i'm still unsure when my coil should be energized in relation to the magnet and what polarity. Anyone got a link for a detailed flow breakdown, does the radiant come after the collapse or is the collapse considered the radiant?

I long for a h wave
The good people found here will help you get it going step by step. schematic is on the home page:
Bedini_Monopole3 : Bedini_Monopole3
your relentless quest for knowledge is admirable.
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  #1398  
Old 06-15-2010, 02:37 AM
Slinky Slinky is offline
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Hey Minoly, i'm pretty sure my wiring is correct although the answers the the above would make me certain.
What don't I know and what have I done wrong is my normal problem solving method
This leaves the puny magnets and coil to be suspect, i'll get on spec and head down there when assembled if I got nowt spinning by then.

I have had that schematic on my desktop for months trying to fill in the gaps, so elegant and simple but a huge rabbit hole at the same time. The theory is surprisingly absorbing.

Will I get the blow by blow flow description at the monopole group Minoly?
Electrons, current, ions, magnetic fluxes, scalar and radiant is a lot to comprehend on top of this gibberish called electronics.

I had heard there were members hanging around and posting but refusing to make the tests and devices, is this true still?
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Old 06-15-2010, 03:17 AM
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Its a good idea to join the yahoo groups for the bedini monopole, there is alot of support there.

And sometimes its better to not know schoolyard electronics then to know it, because some of the things they teach you are wrong or should be investigated instead of accounted for and suppressed...

I learn more on my own then when someone is teaching me.
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Old 06-15-2010, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slinky View Post
Hey Minoly, i'm pretty sure my wiring is correct although the answers the the above would make me certain.
What don't I know and what have I done wrong is my normal problem solving method
This leaves the puny magnets and coil to be suspect, i'll get on spec and head down there when assembled if I got nowt spinning by then.

I have had that schematic on my desktop for months trying to fill in the gaps, so elegant and simple but a huge rabbit hole at the same time. The theory is surprisingly absorbing.

Will I get the blow by blow flow description at the monopole group Minoly?
Electrons, current, ions, magnetic fluxes, scalar and radiant is a lot to comprehend on top of this gibberish called electronics.

I had heard there were members hanging around and posting but refusing to make the tests and devices, is this true still?
Hey Slinky,
your probably right on w/ the magnet size speculation. That, the number of turns/core size. Do you have close to 6 ohms on the power winding? I watched the daftman's vid - he sure takes the simple SSG ckt and makes it look elaborate and elegant. wish I had a link or a photo for you, you can build that entire ckt right on the transistor - no extra wires.

there are enough good people there that if your efforts are in earnest, you will find the help you seek.
I think the same can be said for many here as well. it just so happens there is a ton of data and support there on the monopole for this.
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Old 06-15-2010, 10:50 AM
Slinky Slinky is offline
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Okay, just had a moment, lol

Finishing a coffee before work, I gave my wheel a fast spin, kinda out of frustration and the neon sparked up crazy purple and white.

Spun it again, really fast and boom, it kicks in!
It span up crazy fast and neon was fierce, turning up the resistance only made it brighter so I turned it down to quench the neon. Do I have this wrong, I thought it was the reverse to this?

Then it started to spin up, level out and then spin up again. I stopped it, grabbed my tacho and it got to over 2500rpm before I got scared about my build, tried to stop it. Then the magnets flew off the wheel. It sounded like it would have liked to go faster.

I can't tell you how happy I am my wheel is broken, almost enough to bring tears to my eyes.

Oh yeah, was drawing from 100ma to 600ma, missed any other measurements. I finally have data, hehe, feeling giddy.

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Old 06-15-2010, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slinky View Post
Okay, just had a moment, lol

Finishing a coffee before work, I gave my wheel a fast spin, kinda out of frustration and the neon sparked up crazy purple and white.

Spun it again, really fast and boom, it kicks in!
It span up crazy fast and neon was fierce, turning up the resistance only made it brighter so I turned it down to quench the neon. Do I have this wrong, I thought it was the reverse to this?

Then it started to spin up, level out and then spin up again. I stopped it, grabbed my tacho and it got to over 2500rpm before I got scared about my build, tried to stop it. Then the magnets flew off the wheel. It sounded like it would have liked to go faster.

I can't tell you how happy I am my wheel is broken, almost enough to bring tears to my eyes.

Oh yeah, was drawing from 100ma to 600ma, missed any other measurements. I finally have data, hehe, feeling giddy.


That's fantastic news!

So then, do you think the problem was that it wasn't spinning fast enough to trigger the base in your earlier attempts?
That neon lighting up was soaking up the "bemf" to prevent your transistor from taking on that "bemf", did you have a charge battery connected?
for better charging lower draw, you'll still want to check the ohms on the power coil.
my 2 cents
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Old 06-15-2010, 05:48 PM
Slinky Slinky is offline
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Absolutely, loads more pull after teds advice, I didn't cut off the excess core, just pushed through to the other side and got em close. ore powerful magnets or larger coil would probably have done the same perhaps

The first time just neon, second time it kept going. Had another spin just after I got home from work and it fell apart. Gonna build it a touch stronger and start doing some test and tinkering.

Totally stoked
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Old 06-15-2010, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slinky View Post


Absolutely, loads more pull after teds advice, I didn't cut off the excess core, just pushed through to the other side and got em close. ore powerful magnets or larger coil would probably have done the same perhaps

The first time just neon, second time it kept going. Had another spin just after I got home from work and it fell apart. Gonna build it a touch stronger and start doing some test and tinkering.

Totally stoked
Good stuff,
The protrusion of the core should be of no consequence; you need look no further than the Bedini 10-coil kit to reach that conclusion. Although, testing for one's self is always best. The type of material you are using for the core may be adding to the passing magnets frustration of getting away, however? So many small seemingly minor things can through this off. Once one grasps the basic concept, however, one can make it spin w/ an ice pick and some telephone wire LOL. Glad you got it going after 5 builds, I may have given up myself.
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Old 06-16-2010, 01:43 AM
Slinky Slinky is offline
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Rebuilt/glued the wheel and magnets up and got a good couple of hours tinkering before implosion. My tacho said just over 24,000 rpm but counts 4 magnets each rev so it peaked at over 6000rpm. Seems to have about 3 or 4 plateaus in speed before topping out.

Coil trigger wire reads 2.8ohm
power wire reads 5.0 ohm

If I get the core the same distance away from the wheel but have it protruding it was harder to start than pushed into the coil. It's a small difference but noticeable, this would agree with Ted's previous comment but would probably be hard to notice on a large 1000turn coil.

I couldn't reproduce this mornings fierce purple and white neon flaring up whatever I tried, perhaps leaving it primed but not spinning last night had some effect I know the neon is for safety and a tuned system doesn't need it but this was a very different effect to the neon glowing at high resistance.
I tried to show a friend who popped over without success and felt like a fisherman exaggerating how big his catch was.
Anyone know what I mean? I badly want to reproduce it and grab some macro shots.

Anyway, I got it self resonating from 9v dc adapter with the pot up full, spikes just over 100v on the scope and giving some small lead acid batts some love. Duty cycle is way up at around 40hertz and amp draw down to 180ma.

One question about the charging voltages on a pair of 6v lead acid in series -

The safe zone for charging and discharging has already been discussed for a 12v battery but is it really ok for my charging batts to read above 21v?
They say 11-11.2 when I take em off and let sit for a 5 mins, is it safe to leave em to charge overnight?
Or should I stick like 10 in a bank and charge the lot to be safer?
I guess that was 3 q's

Minoly, if I understood correct and your not spinning yet, I suggest the daftman bedini layout. My only problem it seems was the tiny magnets and joke of a coil that gave me a tiny 2mm zone of working coil distance, even then it needs a fast spin to start. Add a bike wheel with big ceramics would negate such fine tolerances.

Anyway, don't worry, I won't post all my newb data, just nice to have some.


Thanks for the inspiration everyone. Much respect
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Last edited by Slinky; 06-16-2010 at 01:56 AM. Reason: horrible typing and coil ohm readings
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  #1406  
Old 06-16-2010, 06:30 PM
Slinky Slinky is offline
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Another Q

When self resonating with a decent battery charging, the neon was not on, with a bad one or more poor batts charging it comes on partially and burns all black on the battery side.

Any way of not scorching this bulb and is this resistance in the batteries manifesting in the bulb?
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  #1407  
Old 07-22-2010, 12:09 PM
andronover andronover is offline
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Posts: 4
Kevin , I wonder if I should go to the car (junk yard)dont know the english name , and buy some old batteries.
Many of those batteries are in ok shape , and probably will be conditioned faster - just a thought
/Peter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Most of my batteries are generic Walmart deep cycle and/or Marine batteries. I do have a couple car batteries that "died" and were discarded because they would not take a charge from a traditional battery charger.

After a couple dozen cycles on the SG they work like new!
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  #1408  
Old 11-02-2010, 05:40 PM
zasele zasele is offline
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Anyone Selling

Hi,

I don't mean to take the easy way out but was wondering if anyone might have made an extra one to sell or even just extra strator parts. I bought the DIY but it looks so much more difficult than I had expected because I don't have all the tools to cut the rotors/disk. I'm willing to buy one from someone if they made extras or like making them.
I'm located in MN, USA.
I would truly appreciate your help. Thanks for reading this.
Have a awesome day.
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Old 11-02-2010, 07:29 PM
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blackchisel97 blackchisel97 is offline
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new rotor

Finally picked up my new rotor and almost cried I did explain to the machinist what I need and even drew 3D pic. The shaft he made is 1", huge nut to tighten it and long part without a flange to mount. Now I have to figure out how to modify that in simple way to be useful for my project. I'm tired of working with people around





And that was one of my drawings -


Vtech
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Last edited by blackchisel97; 11-02-2010 at 07:32 PM. Reason: additional text
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  #1410  
Old 11-02-2010, 08:38 PM
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tjnlsn255 tjnlsn255 is offline
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Smile

Great rotor.... looks awsome for a Bedini Window motor.....

You can probably drill out the ends of the shaft and thread the hole to whatever size and thread you like.... that would be easy.....

What are the materials it is made of?

Hopes and Dreams....

Tj
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