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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #1321  
Old 09-01-2009, 03:54 PM
sinergicus sinergicus is offline
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about advanced sg circuit

Hi please help me with an advice.In the picture what I put in attachement
the circuit have 2 caps about I dont, know some characteristics what they have.

Cap 1 marked with red what value have ( microfarads and voltage rating)?
And about nr 2 ,I want to know the voltage ratings for this.

If somebody know please answer to this questions

Thanks
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  #1322  
Old 09-01-2009, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sinergicus View Post
Hi please help me with an advice.In the picture what I put in attachement
the circuit have 2 caps about I dont, know some characteristics what they have.

Cap 1 marked with red what value have ( microfarads and voltage rating)?
And about nr 2 ,I want to know the voltage ratings for this.

If somebody know please answer to this questions

Thanks
Cap 2 says it is a 2.2uf capacitor. Since it is running off a 12v system, look for anything over 16v just to be safe

and cap 1 looks like a battery That's weird... why would there be a battery there??? and if it is hooked up with the polarity shown then it will be shorted out in series with the primary battery It would make sense to have a larger electrolytic capacitor where the battery is marked to smooth out the voltage input to the 555 circuit...

Is this an error or have I missed something????

Here is a better image pulled from John's website...

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Last edited by Sephiroth; 09-01-2009 at 04:51 PM.
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  #1323  
Old 09-01-2009, 04:51 PM
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ah... ok... confusing, but it looks like he is using that symbol for a capacitor

I would go for a 100uf cap where cap 1 is... again anything over 16v should be fine.
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  #1324  
Old 09-07-2009, 03:04 PM
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Battery Swapping

Okay, I know this question has been answered by John Bedini, but I am confused because I see conflicting setups all over the internet. JB states in the "Energy From the Vacuum" Radiant energy video that the batteries in a SG circuit cannot be flipped back and forth for charge and discharge cycles. I purchased Rick Fredrick's 6" Bedini Motor kit and it came with a DPDT switch for swapping the batteries around. I have read some of Rick's posts which lead me to believe that he has done his homework. However, JB says convert the negative energy from the charging battery with a power inverter to charge the primary battery. What gives?

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  #1325  
Old 09-07-2009, 07:24 PM
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Web000x @ Battery Swapping

Battery can be charged with either negative or positive. However, you can use negatively charged battery to power other loads but you cannot use it to power SSG. To make swapping batteries possible, negative energy has to be first converted into positive. Capacitor seems to do the job allowing swapping back to front. I do this with my setup, which is J.B's as well and very similar to the one posted here with exception that it uses 555 IC and self resonating part.
I hope that I answered your question.

Cheers

v
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  #1326  
Old 09-08-2009, 02:22 AM
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The other simple way to swap the batteries immediately is to run your sg through an inverter. A little less efficient I know, but when charging large batteries it doesn't matter, and for those of us who don't use caps it's the only way to do it without having the batteries sit for hours first.

That reminds me, didn't bedini state that the version of the his chargers that don't use caps is an advancment of the tech? Why are people calling the old cap versions "Advanced SG's"? Perhaps it's because they are far more complicated to setup.

Cheers,

Steve
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  #1327  
Old 09-09-2009, 11:12 AM
glenn_aircooled glenn_aircooled is offline
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slowly experimenting, here's my latest. The Window coil is not mounted just yet
But it has two coils working.
Glenn.
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  #1328  
Old 09-13-2009, 07:42 AM
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Here is a interesting post from Rick Frederick
Yahoo! Groups
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  #1329  
Old 09-13-2009, 10:21 AM
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Monopole for $3500- $4500

Quote:
Originally Posted by nvisser View Post
Here is a interesting post from Rick Frederick
Yahoo! Groups
Amazing.... this is quite a new development, I wonder if it will be in kit form?
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  #1330  
Old 09-13-2009, 10:27 AM
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Inverter

Quote:
Originally Posted by dambit View Post
The other simple way to swap the batteries immediately is to run your sg through an inverter. A little less efficient I know, but when charging large batteries it doesn't matter, and for those of us who don't use caps it's the only way to do it without having the batteries sit for hours first.

That reminds me, didn't bedini state that the version of the his chargers that don't use caps is an advancment of the tech? Why are people calling the old cap versions "Advanced SG's"? Perhaps it's because they are far more complicated to setup.

Cheers,

Steve
There were certain instances that Bedini stated that you could use the charged battery at the primary.

1. If the battery was charged from a cap discharge.

2. If the battery was charged from a charging coil I.E. not part of the large spike, but just a coil next to the wheel that was receiving charge.

I myself found the inverter to be a huge tax on the system, and I have been experimenting with much less of a drain. I use some cheap laptop car adapters I have found that run directly off 12 V. They consume far less energy than an inverter, and when I need more power I simply add more circuits. So far they have worked decently for me.

Cheers.
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  #1331  
Old 09-13-2009, 10:30 AM
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If the capacitor does the majic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchisel97 View Post
Battery can be charged with either negative or positive. However, you can use negatively charged battery to power other loads but you cannot use it to power SSG. To make swapping batteries possible, negative energy has to be first converted into positive. Capacitor seems to do the job allowing swapping back to front. I do this with my setup, which is J.B's as well and very similar to the one posted here with exception that it uses 555 IC and self resonating part.
I hope that I answered your question.

Cheers

v
If the capacitor does the magic... could one put a cap at the front?

If one charges a battery with negative charge, how do you get rid of the negative charge?

So many questions I have.
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  #1332  
Old 09-13-2009, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theremart View Post
If the capacitor does the magic... could one put a cap at the front?

If one charges a battery with negative charge, how do you get rid of the negative charge?

So many questions I have.
I would have thought the energy would need to be converted before it goes to the battery, but that is a good point I wonder if that would work... Though I haven't confirmed that a cap-charged battery can run the SSG better than a directly charged battery.

You probably noticed JB has large capacitors on the front end of his big monopole though I'm pretty sure that is because at high frequency the skin effect will make the cables going to the monopole a far higher impedance than they normally would be... the caps will hide the high frequency from the cables and lower their impedance.
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  #1333  
Old 09-13-2009, 10:58 AM
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Caps at the front

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
I would have thought the energy would need to be converted before it goes to the battery, but that is a good point I wonder if that would work... Though I haven't confirmed that a cap-charged battery can run the SSG better than a directly charged battery.

You probably noticed JB has large capacitors on the front end of his big monopole though I'm pretty sure that is because at high frequency the skin effect will make the cables going to the monopole a far higher impedance than they normally would be... the caps will hide the high frequency from the cables and lower their impedance.
What caps at the front have done for me is to seem to act like an energy value at the front. It only allows the system to pull x amount of energy instead of asking the battery for all that it can give. It does seem to make my Bedinis to run longer. I also have a theory that the back emf ( from my wheel bedini's ) seems to fill the cap better than it does the battery. Some may say that there is no back EMF on a Bedini, but in my testing with 2 Bedini's powering a wheel I found if I ran just one of them and looked at the cap voltage at the front on the second it would raise the cap voltage at the primary. This tells me there there indeed is some voltage back feeding to the cap from an SSG when on a wheel setup.

Looks like you are building some monster coils there Seph, on your new web page looks good I have just completed my move and I am so happy I will have some decent solar to play with. Looking at your setup I might suggest one thing with your solid state. If you watch Energy from the vacuum 2 right before the led lights up thru plastic part you get a glimpse of the solid state Bedini that is used to charge the golf cart batteries. If you look, you will notice the coils are not on a spool, but are in the air. I have made my coils like this and have found that far less heat builds up made this way. I have also found that the bigger the wattage the more wire I put on the coil the less heat is generated.

It is nice to be back from my move!

YouTube - Video 71 Arrival at Summerfield, Florida
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  #1334  
Old 09-13-2009, 11:17 AM
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Nice place Congratulations!

I'm jealous I moved recently as well... to a basement flat... lol, thus "the underground lab"

RE:spool
I saw in one of John's patents that he just tied the coil together with cable ties... the spool made it easier to wind but I could probably tear it apart and still preserve the windings if heat becomes an issue... the "Fat Boy" is definitely a monster coil and at the frequency it is operating at there should be very little heat dissipation from the system... I think I calculated it to be less than 5% but I'll have to go through my notes...

About to upload more photos and a video so watch this space
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  #1335  
Old 09-15-2009, 08:22 AM
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bedini kits

see this document for Ricks post . How to order kits included the 10 coiler!
Truth In Heart CREDIT CARD ORDERING CENTER
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Last edited by nvisser; 10-14-2009 at 11:34 AM.
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  #1336  
Old 09-15-2009, 06:04 PM
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He says there are 80 power windings... so 80 power windings on 10 coils is 8 windings per coil in parallel, which is reasonable... though it looks like it will be low impedance.

For the rotor to manage "tens of thousands" of rpms, then the inductance of the coils must be very low.
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  #1337  
Old 09-15-2009, 06:36 PM
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I have a hard time believing a rotor that big could go even 10,000 rpm let alone 10's of thousands.
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  #1338  
Old 09-15-2009, 07:19 PM
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[QUOTE=Sephiroth;67979]He says there are 80 power windings... so 80 power windings on 10 coils is 8 windings per coil in parallel, which is reasonable... though it looks like it will be low impedance.

Ok ,that is more realistic, I had it completely wrong
That means 8 transistors/coil?
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  #1339  
Old 09-16-2009, 12:09 AM
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@nvisser: Yes, if they're following the usual multistrand/multicoil setup, it will be eight transistors per coil. Though on the BM3 group Rick mentioned that they had improved upon John's original design, so that might not be valid.

@Mark: It may be possible, especially if they run it at higher voltages. In my (admittedly limited) experience with 24V, I've seen energizers that normally run around 1,500 RPM shoot up to almost 4,000 RPM (it's a 6.5" rotor). So maybe 10,000 RPM may not be all that far fetched after all, especially if they're pushing 100V or so.

EDIT: It seems that 4K measurement was in error by a factor of 2. Still, from 1,500 RPM to 2,000 RPM is nothing to sneeze at.
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Last edited by Shamus; 09-19-2009 at 12:58 PM.
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  #1340  
Old 09-16-2009, 06:37 AM
baroutologos baroutologos is offline
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Good techs and figures.
The issue? Is it OU? If not... what is it? Big Battery desulfator?

Regards,
Baroutologos
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  #1341  
Old 09-16-2009, 02:37 PM
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Hi Shamus

Ive had my window motor running at 5000 rpm on only 12v but it was only a 5 inch rotor. The 10 coiler has a 17 inch rotor, thats huge! I would want to see some numbers on that before a lay down $3500 to $4500 for one.
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  #1342  
Old 09-16-2009, 04:13 PM
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I noticed that Rick do answer some question here
Yahoo! Groups
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  #1343  
Old 09-17-2009, 10:26 AM
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Very glad to see such a large charger for sale.

Clever way to sell them too. As a kit no one would take much notice. (The energy people that is.)

Cheers,

Steve
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  #1344  
Old 09-17-2009, 09:35 PM
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Bedini SSG thoughts

I had a thought regarding the SSG to pass along in case anyone wants to pursue this.

The bifilar coil in the SSG will have a certain inductance, depending on geometry, number of turns, ferro material, etc.

The motor will spin at a certain RPM, creating a certain oscillation.

XL = 2 * PI * f * L

where f is your oscillation frequency (motor spin frequency),
and L is your coil inductance.

You will notice in this equation that as the spin frequency
increases, so does XL ... which will have the effect of
a larger reactance ... which will impede more current flow, slowing
down the motor. So there is a sweet spot whereby
a balance is struck with XL, the current flow
and the motor speed (all dictated by your coil).

If you have an absolutely huge L, your motor may not even turn ...
or it will turn slowly. Too small a value of L might allow enormous
current flow from your battery to motor, creating a very fast
frequency yes, but your poor battery is draining too fast.

If someone where to PLOT these relationships out
in terms of the inductance relative to RPM relative to
other metrics such as current from drive battery, etc.,
these non-linear curves could be analyzed using
non-linear curve fitting algorithms to help find
the optimum value for L for your coil.

W/o this careful approach, your coil winding is a crap shoot.
Some will be impressed how fast their motor turns but
unimpressed in how fast the battery is charged.
Yes there is a POT controlling current to the transistor,
but the coil is a more dominate PLAYER in the
power equations.

Perhaps the coil should have a variable inductance ...
a ferro material that can be moved in and out of the form
to find the sweet-spot.
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  #1345  
Old 09-17-2009, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morpher44 View Post
I had a thought regarding the SSG to pass along in case anyone wants to pursue this.

The bifilar coil in the SSG will have a certain inductance, depending on geometry, number of turns, ferro material, etc.

The motor will spin at a certain RPM, creating a certain oscillation.

XL = 2 * PI * f * L

where f is your oscillation frequency (motor spin frequency),
and L is your coil inductance.

You will notice in this equation that as the spin frequency
increases, so does XL ... which will have the effect of
a larger reactance ... which will impede more current flow, slowing
down the motor. So there is a sweet spot whereby
a balance is struck with XL, the current flow
and the motor speed (all dictated by your coil).

If you have an absolutely huge L, your motor may not even turn ...
or it will turn slowly. Too small a value of L might allow enormous
current flow from your battery to motor, creating a very fast
frequency yes, but your poor battery is draining too fast.

If someone where to PLOT these relationships out
in terms of the inductance relative to RPM relative to
other metrics such as current from drive battery, etc.,
these non-linear curves could be analyzed using
non-linear curve fitting algorithms to help find
the optimum value for L for your coil.

W/o this careful approach, your coil winding is a crap shoot.
Some will be impressed how fast their motor turns but
unimpressed in how fast the battery is charged.
Yes there is a POT controlling current to the transistor,
but the coil is a more dominate PLAYER in the
power equations.

Perhaps the coil should have a variable inductance ...
a ferro material that can be moved in and out of the form
to find the sweet-spot.
Here is something that visually represents what you are saying... have a look at the scope shots in this video from about 1:20mins onwards...

YouTube - MG-1 : Pulse Motor Generator (SSG)

you can see the pulse train for each magnet pass, and where the back emf is greatest (around the centre of the train) the pulse width is longest because of the way the back emf is holding back the current and making it take longer for the magnetic field to reach saturation.

I agree that the inductance of your coil needs to be well chosen if you have a particular purpose in mind... Though inductance isn't the only factor, since although these coils are fairly low inductance, I'm making use of their geometry to hold back the current long enough for single pulses.
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  #1346  
Old 10-17-2009, 08:17 PM
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Does someone know from which thread the following diagram comes from. I downloaded it somewhere late one night. I labelled it "bedini feedback to chip"
I need to know why the 1 uF cap is switched in series with the trigger coil and the wattage of the 12v lamp?
I was under the impression that at least the half bipolar switch must be used to send the "reactive power" back to the battery the instant when both polarities are shut off from the coil as we all know that you cannot charge the battery while it is supplying the load.?
They feed the higher voltage that is generated by the extra generator coil and cap straight back to the drive battery. No pulsing
I am sure this can be done with the correct timing and pulsing , but this drawing does not look right to me and I cannot believe that it comes from bedini. Maybe bedini explained it to somebody and that is the way he drew it?
Any feedback on this please
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Last edited by nvisser; 11-25-2009 at 06:46 PM.
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  #1347  
Old 10-19-2009, 03:06 PM
uusedman uusedman is offline
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Hi Guys-

It is happening again. Whenever I start collecting the BEMF from the collector to a charge batter, the AMP Draw increases?????????? I know it supposed to decrease. I built a new circuit last night and still the Amp Draw increase upon charging the secondary batter. The amount of increase of AMP Draw is about 20%.

The only answer to this problem I can come to is Lenz Law is coming into effect. Can it be that my trigger wire is to long and is generating much more voltage than needed to activating the Base?
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  #1348  
Old 10-27-2009, 09:56 AM
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Can anyone tells me what A grain-of-wheat bulb is and what wattage it is
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  #1349  
Old 10-27-2009, 01:45 PM
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grain of wheat bulb

Hi nvisser,




Vtech
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  #1350  
Old 10-27-2009, 01:51 PM
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Thank you. Looks like the little lamps they used in older car radios
60ma tells me what I need
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