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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #1081  
Old 03-16-2009, 01:51 AM
redeagle redeagle is offline
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@ doc make sure your batteries are rechargeable of what ever type they are. Alkaline batteries produce hydrogen and oxygen in them when charged. two high of voltage and boom. But as far as bedini's batteries crystalizing is because once they receive a full charge they start to perfrom electrolysis in them. they were probably gel cells meaning that once they are gone they are gone. That's one of the reasons that they say to use flooded deepcycles.
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  #1082  
Old 03-16-2009, 01:56 AM
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@ inquorate the ground wire on the charging side negative makes my ignition coils "single wire" charge much faster. Haven't tried an antenna yet, but i will eventually since i'm working on replicating tesla's antenna and 12v battery powered car.But without the vacuum tubes. if i get it working i'll be doing my minibike first for a start.
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  #1083  
Old 03-16-2009, 02:11 AM
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@ Redeagle

Thanks for the ground verification. Your tesla battery car project is what brought ne to this site in the first place. Small world.
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  #1084  
Old 03-16-2009, 03:11 PM
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Gauss & magnet size

Does anybody have some scale of rotor radius to quantity of magnets to gauss strength? Thanks!!

ps bedini seems to twist his cables - like twisted pair ethernet stuff - comments?
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  #1085  
Old 03-16-2009, 07:44 PM
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SG motor

I thought the school girl motor ran on alkaline batteries for 4 1/2 days? Do the batteries heat up before they break - mine never get hot. hmm... The rechargeable ones really suck for time. Thanks as always!
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  #1086  
Old 03-17-2009, 12:37 AM
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There are not really any Recommendations for the Magnets and Coils, it mostly works, when you got a Rotor 2 coils and a Transistor.
Its even possible, to build it up in Solid State, when it use the EM Field to work.
But mostly they work good enough, that you can be happy.
All you can do is, to tune around at it, to find more out about it.

I found the same with the recharable too, they are more crap then normal Batteries.
There you see, how we get fooled, Peoples buy Accus, to save Money,
and they are faster damaged, as normal ones, or for the relation to the Price, the same Time.
But right now, i try a new Accupack, and did load them with the Bedini,
what did not work to well, first time, they got good Power, second Time, they only had very short Time Power.
Mistake, i should have had to charge them first up normally, to put Electrons in.
But anyway, after the 3rd Load, i put them at a Charger, and they seems hold the Energy well again. But they are still on Test.
Its maybe not wrong too, to bring them first into another condition, and then charge them up.

And well, about the Schoolgirl Motor, the Batteries only been empty after 4 Days,
all you have to do then, is to switch them with full ones, and charge them new up


And @All, btw, did anyone seen, that at some Pictures the Bedini Circuit had a Inductive Coil for charging the Batts?
At the other Coil there been 2 other Coils, one Trigger one Power,
where one Coil was connected directly to the Batt.
Reminds me at the Newman, to charge up the Run batt.
I still play around, and saw, that a close inductive Coil give 2 Spikes,
one at Connect, one at disconnect from the Transistor/Reedswitch,
when the Timing is right.
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  #1087  
Old 03-17-2009, 05:34 AM
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No pickup diode, only neon. Very interesting effect.

YouTube - crazy purple flash staccato

YouTube - pendulum push coil tuned up

These videos are relevant to many discussions I've had on different threads. Hope no-one minds me cross posting :-)
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  #1088  
Old 03-31-2009, 02:00 AM
ABCStore ABCStore is offline
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Question

Guys,

I'm trying to bring an old 160CCA tractor battery back to life. What could cause this anomaly in charging? Every graph starts with a period of discharging and then I charge it on Bedini fan.

ABC
Attached Images
File Type: jpg charging.jpg (158.4 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg charging1.jpg (158.4 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg charging2.jpg (163.9 KB, 29 views)
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  #1089  
Old 03-31-2009, 11:11 AM
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RE: battery charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCStore View Post
Guys,

I'm trying to bring an old 160CCA tractor battery back to life. What could cause this anomaly in charging? Every graph starts with a period of discharging and then I charge it on Bedini fan.

ABC
Hi,

If you look at the Bedini replications on Peswiki, you will find the same thing happening of the drop in voltage then rise. My theory from reading multiple accounts, and watching Energy from the Vacuum 2, is that the sulfur on the plates is coming off, which makes room for more charge thus you have a drop in voltage. This same set of events has been seen on the other replications detailed at this link:

Directory:Bedini SG:Replications - PESWiki


The rest of the battery charging curve look just like mine it seems to rise mid way then skyrocket to the top voltage.

The real test is the load test afterword, as how many amps hours you can get out of the battery.

Thanks for sharing!

P.S. Where did you get your meter software, looks interesting.
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Last edited by theremart; 03-31-2009 at 11:19 AM.
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  #1090  
Old 03-31-2009, 06:30 PM
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Hi theremart!

The reason I was asking is this is happening to one battery only. The rest of them just charge, going up more or less.

The software came with the meter from Radio Shack, model 22-812
PC Interface 46-Range Digital Multimeter - RadioShack.com
Pretty decent unit, I might add.

ABC
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  #1091  
Old 03-31-2009, 08:32 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Batteries

Hi theremart why is it that when I charge the batteries with bedini hold the charge for one day then discharge immediatetly?
It's happening all the time.
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  #1092  
Old 03-31-2009, 09:42 PM
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Quick Discharge rate...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
Hi theremart why is it that when I charge the batteries with bedini hold the charge for one day then discharge immediatetly?
It's happening all the time.
Much depends on the type of battery being charged, the SSG seems to work best with lead acid batteries. That being said, several other factors are at play. The thickness of the plates are a major factor, for you high amp hour batteries to charge them in a reasonable amount of time you will probably need about 3 amp on the Bedini to charge them well so they load well I find this about the bare starting point for my golf cart batteries to get a decent charge. That being said, if you do move up to more amps it is time to move up to more transistors, and heavier pots. The low wattage pots will fry if you try to pump sizable amps to them.

As i have pointed out, I recommend the solid state Jetijs circuit for charging large amp hour batteries. ( see other solid state forum here )

As always check your electrolite levels... and clean your battery terminals so that you are getting a good connection to the battery.

The SSG cannot fix batteries that are physically broken inside or have warped plates. It normally takes many cycles to get a battery back up to par. Some batteries are not worth the effort, realize it may take 30 - 40 cycles to get back to par, some have found replacing the electrolyte has helped, but always a gamble with older batteries.
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  #1093  
Old 03-31-2009, 10:16 PM
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If I recall correctly, Peter once said, that they were charging golf cart batteries every night after a whole day of use. They used a radiant charger for this. And on the next day the batteries were used in golf carts. Only on sundays the batteries were left alone. And every monday morning there were problems with the battery capacity, it could perform less work. So the increased capacity effect of the batteries does not last for long time. Of course after a new radiant charge the battery becomes alive again. This might also be the case here. I have observed something similar with my recovered battery.
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  #1094  
Old 03-31-2009, 11:34 PM
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battery efficiency

Jetijs,

I saw this over and over at John's shop. I think it is easier to see on larger battery banks since little differences are magnified compared to small differences with small battery comparisons.

This was one of the things I was hoping Sephiroth would see with his automatic load draining circuit he put together.
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  #1095  
Old 04-01-2009, 12:04 AM
ABCStore ABCStore is offline
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Slightly off-topic question: how do you, guys, measure high voltage spikes on a scope? I mean do you temporarily take neon off? Because otherwise I only see ~80v, as expected... On the other hand, I know spikes go way higher because 400v capacitor jumps to 250-300v in only a few seconds.

ABC
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  #1096  
Old 04-01-2009, 12:38 AM
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You are right, I take the neon off and remove the charging battery, but only for a quick moment, because without protection those 2n3055 fry fast (depending from the setup, of course). But that quick moment is usually enough to see how big the spikes are.

Aaron, you are right about the battery size, I have never really observed this effect on small 7Ah gel cells, but I can see it on my 50Ah car battery
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  #1097  
Old 04-01-2009, 02:08 AM
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taking the charge off....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
You are right, I take the neon off and remove the charging battery, but only for a quick moment, because without protection those 2n3055 fry fast (depending from the setup, of course). But that quick moment is usually enough to see how big the spikes are.

Aaron, you are right about the battery size, I have never really observed this effect on small 7Ah gel cells, but I can see it on my 50Ah car battery

Ok, I did not know that is how you were looking at your spikes on the scope.... ( with the charging battery removed )

So that is why you are getting such large spikes. On the videos I see Bedini looking at his spikes hooked up to the battery, but then again he might be having caps in his setup....

I was on another board the other day, and they said something that made alot of sense to me, you can tell how sulfated a battery is by looking at the spike when it gets to the battery. On this board they made desulfators. One thing of great interest to me is they tuned the desulfator to the frequency of the sulfur. This just made tons of sense to me as to why it would be more effective to break up sulfur at its resonant freq.

Yes, the battery size is critical. They are totally different animals each type of battery, react so differently to the energizers.
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  #1098  
Old 04-01-2009, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theremart View Post
Ok, I did not know that is how you were looking at your spikes on the scope.... ( with the charging battery removed )

So that is why you are getting such large spikes. On the videos I see Bedini looking at his spikes hooked up to the battery, but then again he might be having caps in his setup....

I was on another board the other day, and they said something that made alot of sense to me, you can tell how sulfated a battery is by looking at the spike when it gets to the battery. On this board they made desulfators. One thing of great interest to me is they tuned the desulfator to the frequency of the sulfur. This just made tons of sense to me as to why it would be more effective to break up sulfur at its resonant freq.

Yes, the battery size is critical. They are totally different animals each type of battery, react so differently to the energizers.

Hi Mart,

How did they tune the charger to the sulphate? Interesting idea.

It is easy to guage the level of sulphation when you hook up a sulphated battery to a bedini charger. The voltage instantly goes way over the the rated level (ie. 12V would go up to around 24V), but then it will slowly fall to normal levels. Sometimes the sulphation will be so bad that all my neons light up. It's as if there is no battery on there at all. (these are the ones to toss as they will not be worth the effort)

As far as looking at the spikes on a scope, I think Bedini see more because of his scope. It's 200MHz compared to the average 20MHz.

Cheers,

Steve
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  #1099  
Old 04-01-2009, 02:23 PM
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I have a 60MHz scope and I all I see is an 18v spike when the charging battery is connected. The easiest way to find out how high those spikes are (IMHO) is to charge a 400v-600v capacitor since it will not charge above the actual voltage supplied.

I also wonder if leaving neon bulb connected actually absorbs some of that HV destined for the battery?.. In EFV video John Bedini actuall had a big sign in from of the energizer saying "Do NOT turn on without load". Was neon bulb removed from it?..

ABC
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  #1100  
Old 04-01-2009, 05:14 PM
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I haven't used any bulbs in my circuit for some time now. I always figured that if you have a bulb in line, thats using power that could be used for charging the battery. The only one that made any sense to me to leave in would be the one near the pot to keep the spike from destroying it, but I leave that one out too.
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  #1101  
Old 04-01-2009, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Jetijs,

I saw this over and over at John's shop. I think it is easier to see on larger battery banks since little differences are magnified compared to small differences with small battery comparisons.

This was one of the things I was hoping Sephiroth would see with his automatic load draining circuit he put together.
Hi Aaron,

I have a bigger solid state device charging 2 x 24ah batteries in parrellel and I have 2 other identical batteries I'm going to use as a control to see the difference between a conditioned and nonconditioned battery.

the charge and discharge curves are very interesting as the experiment progresses but I want to leave it running a bit longer before I post the results
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  #1102  
Old 04-01-2009, 07:37 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Bedini updated version

Hi guys about the updated version for multi coil Bedini setup one have to add 4 diodes more (1n4007) for every coil?
Thanks
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  #1103  
Old 04-01-2009, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
Hi guys about the updated version for multi coil Bedini setup one have to add 4 diodes more (1n4007) for every coil?
Thanks
which circuit do you exactly mean?
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  #1104  
Old 04-01-2009, 09:30 PM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Multicoil

Hi JetiJs this is your post image the multicoil setup. Now an update of the SSG bedini was released saying to put 5 diodes in parallel to charge battery.
I would like to know if for a multicoil it's the same to every coil.
Thanks
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  #1105  
Old 04-02-2009, 12:14 AM
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I think the circuit posted right above is slightly incorrect. One of the 1n4001 diodes is connected before the resistor.

ABC
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  #1106  
Old 04-02-2009, 12:53 AM
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RE: neon bulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by ABCStore View Post
I have a 60MHz scope and I all I see is an 18v spike when the charging battery is connected. The easiest way to find out how high those spikes are (IMHO) is to charge a 400v-600v capacitor since it will not charge above the actual voltage supplied.

I also wonder if leaving neon bulb connected actually absorbs some of that HV destined for the battery?.. In EFV video John Bedini actuall had a big sign in from of the energizer saying "Do NOT turn on without load". Was neon bulb removed from it?..

ABC

When you go up to high amps and high 24V and special tuned magnets or neos, the neon will not save your hide been there....
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  #1107  
Old 04-02-2009, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dambit View Post
Hi Mart,

How did they tune the charger to the sulphate? Interesting idea.

It is easy to guage the level of sulphation when you hook up a sulphated battery to a bedini charger. The voltage instantly goes way over the the rated level (ie. 12V would go up to around 24V), but then it will slowly fall to normal levels. Sometimes the sulphation will be so bad that all my neons light up. It's as if there is no battery on there at all. (these are the ones to toss as they will not be worth the effort)

As far as looking at the spikes on a scope, I think Bedini see more because of his scope. It's 200MHz compared to the average 20MHz.

Cheers,

Steve


What I learned came from this forum.

Desulfator - 555 based and all pulse output stages - All - Lead Acid Battery Desulfation - Message Board - Yuku

They have some very very good ideas there about fixing old batteries.

And I bet you are right if I had a scope that could sample that fast I would be able to see soo much more about the spikes.

Another method that I have been checking into is using epson salt to break up the sulfation.
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  #1108  
Old 04-02-2009, 11:12 AM
Guruji Guruji is offline
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Uploaded circuit

Hi guys I was refering to this circuit. How it is applied to a multicoil setup?
5diodes to every coil?
Thanks
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  #1109  
Old 04-02-2009, 02:35 PM
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Hi Guys, off topic but wanted to throw this at you. I just put together another SG and built my rotor out of a small gyroscope. I glued 5 1/4 inch neo square magnets to the outer edge of the aluminum wheel. I took it out of its original cage and mounted it in a 3 inch plastic pipe. You have to give it a good spin to get it going but its spinning at over 2800 rpm on 12 volts and 80 mill amps. And I haven't even tuned it yet!
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Last edited by Mark; 04-02-2009 at 02:38 PM.
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  #1110  
Old 04-02-2009, 02:40 PM
ABCStore ABCStore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruji View Post
Hi guys I was refering to this circuit. How it is applied to a multicoil setup?
5diodes to every coil?
Thanks
Think of it as 5 diodes per transistor.

ABC
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