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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #511  
Old 04-05-2008, 01:35 AM
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there is no way to effectively measure the output amps (its interesting to note the relationships however inaccurate an analogue gauge may be) but an analogue panel meter is reasonably accurate for the input current.
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  #512  
Old 04-07-2008, 01:25 AM
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A little something to think about

Hi Everyone,


Heres a little clip I made of my new SSG with a piece of steel behind the core to demonstrate the motor picking up speed and dropping in amperage that I stated in an earlier post.Enjoy and dont mind the radiant dog food can as it was only to demonstrate the sound more clearly of the motor speeding up .

YouTube - Bedini SSG

p.s.oops! guess it would help to put the link

-Gary
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  #513  
Old 04-07-2008, 05:09 AM
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Great demo ... but now questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeat View Post
Hi Everyone,


Heres a little clip I made of my new SSG with a piece of steel behind the core to demonstrate the motor picking up speed and dropping in amperage that I stated in an earlier post.Enjoy and dont mind the radiant dog food can as it was only to demonstrate the sound more clearly of the motor speeding up .


-Gary
And again GREAT DEMO.

My only question?? Can you put a load on your system ( mechanical or electrical ) and with the steel redirecting flux paths ... do your get extra power?

Dodeca
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  #514  
Old 04-07-2008, 08:06 PM
Runnningrage Runnningrage is offline
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Stay haven't work out the bugs

I don't know guys i tried almost everything to get this motor to running. I might think i found the problem when i test my coil by hand rotating it i mesured it with ac meter i was reading 0.6 .7v do i need more to get the tranisistor to switch. Also i when get connected everything the primary battery has less voltage .347v than secondary batter 7.56v. Is suppose to be doing that, next i going to try start it up with a power drill. You guy please tell me if that is a good idea

transistor is tip 3055
coil are wind 630 turns roughly
battery 1.3ah 12v
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  #515  
Old 04-07-2008, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dodeca View Post
And again GREAT DEMO.

My only question?? Can you put a load on your system ( mechanical or electrical ) and with the steel redirecting flux paths ... do your get extra power?

Dodeca

Hi Dodeca,

If you notice I am powering a fan in that clip, But as far as putting a REAL load on an SSG I personally dont think it can be done unless built very BIG.I'm only trying to figure out the best energy recovery method with regard to the SSG.It takes time to READ BETWEEN THE LINES on what is best method by experimenting.I have now figured out the particular POPPING sound that I believe is a huge TIP for anyone experimenting with the SSG to be looking for.To answer your question yes I get more torque for less amps but that comes at a price of less recovery to the secondary battery.I personally would like to explore that happy little popping sound further.Hope this helps answer your question.Oh,by the way have I mentioned that I've been accused on more than one occassion of thinking way out of the box lol.


-Gary
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  #516  
Old 04-07-2008, 09:06 PM
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RE: trying to get this going.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runnningrage View Post
I don't know guys i tried almost everything to get this motor to running. I might think i found the problem when i test my coil by hand rotating it i mesured it with ac meter i was reading 0.6 .7v do i need more to get the tranisistor to switch. Also i when get connected everything the primary battery has less voltage .347v than secondary batter 7.56v. Is suppose to be doing that, next i going to try start it up with a power drill. You guy please tell me if that is a good idea
transistor is tip 3055
coil are wind 630 turns roughly
battery 1.3ah 12v
Hi,

It took me about 2 weeks to get my first one up, that was because I had the wrong value of resistor But, it would probably help if you would upload a picture of your setup, and give us input voltage, and the parts you are using to construct your SSG.

The type of magnets you are using and the input voltage are big factors..

Make sure your magnets are all "north" outward. Also flip your transistor wires, often they are switched.

Mart
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  #517  
Old 04-07-2008, 09:12 PM
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good tips from mart.

the polarity of the windings is important so double check that (and make sure the ends are nice and clean, no insulation).

close your air gap down as much as you can.

600 plus turns is more than enough, try a 10 ohm resistor to get it running. Not sure what you mean by the primary has less voltage, do you mean it drops when you connect it? IF so you transistor may be fried or you have an incorrect connection somewhere, it shouldnt draw anything on connection.
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  #518  
Old 04-08-2008, 06:26 PM
Runnningrage Runnningrage is offline
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All The Help I Can Get

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Originally Posted by ren View Post
good tips from mart.

the polarity of the windings is important so double check that (and make sure the ends are nice and clean, no insulation).

close your air gap down as much as you can.

600 plus turns is more than enough, try a 10 ohm resistor to get it running. Not sure what you mean by the primary has less voltage, do you mean it drops when you connect it? IF so you transistor may be fried or you have an incorrect connection somewhere, it shouldnt draw anything on connection.
If you look at the pic i post i first connected everything than i test the primary batteries, and voltage drop to 1.76. The weird part maybe the source of my problem the secondary battery is reading 8.89. If keeping the two battery connect longer the primary will still be droping to .378, and so would the secondary down to 7.41. I took extra picture for u guys if u can spot something i can recognize which the source of the problem.

Attachment 454

Attachment 455

Attachment 456
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  #519  
Old 04-08-2008, 07:05 PM
Runnningrage Runnningrage is offline
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Going back to drawing board

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Originally Posted by theremart View Post
Hi,

It took me about 2 weeks to get my first one up, that was because I had the wrong value of resistor But, it would probably help if you would upload a picture of your setup, and give us input voltage, and the parts you are using to construct your SSG.

The type of magnets you are using and the input voltage are big factors..

Make sure your magnets are all "north" outward. Also flip your transistor wires, often they are switched.

Mart
I using your normal cermic magnet that i buy at lowe's home department store. The dimension are 7/8" x 1-7/8" x 3/8" you can see them on the pic i post there 8 magnets on the rotor. I right now using a 480 resistor going to change it to a 10 resistor probably go to wtf if that was the whole entire problem lol
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  #520  
Old 04-08-2008, 07:19 PM
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Hi Runningrage,

I think you may have your magnets to close together.Try using 4 on your wheel.I'm pretty sure that will hinder the function of the SSG as the coil needs more space to charge and discharge,Someone correct me if I'm wrong as I'm just trying to help out.Hope this helps,Good luck.


-Gary
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  #521  
Old 04-08-2008, 07:43 PM
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hmmm... I agree with gary... the magnets look very close...

though I am a little worreid about the condition of your batteries. It is probably self resonating when you hook the battery up which would be why it is drawing current, but the battery shouldn't be discharged that low.... even if the coil is drawing an amp in self resonance it shouldnt instantly discharge a 1.3 ah battery... and even then the charging battery would go over 13 volts immeadiatly... not 8 volts.. its resting voltage should still be above 12v.
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  #522  
Old 04-08-2008, 08:48 PM
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Sep has a good point. The battery is either seriously damaged or you have a connection problem with your multimeter. Does your battery read 12+ while at rest? It may sound stupid but check with some different leads plugged into your multimeter if it is giving confusing and conflicting information. Often with cheap leads the wire connection can break without the insulation breaking, I have a few sets that have done that.

Failing that you need to figure out if your circuit is drawing amperage when connected. It may pay to make your circuit again, screw or bolt the transistor down to a piece of board and solder all connections bar the resistance. Its a bit hard to see but do you have a diode between emitter and base? If you find the mje transistor small and hard to solder the 2n3055 or tip3055 are bigger and easier to make connections. There seems to be a significant bundle of mess around your pins and this can complicate things.

And yes for a small rotor you need to have an appropriate gap between magnets, at least 1/1/2 magnet spacings if possible. Id suggest a 4 magnet rotor.

Good luck.
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  #523  
Old 04-08-2008, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runnningrage View Post
If you look at the pic i post i first connected everything than i test the primary batteries, and voltage drop to 1.76. The weird part maybe the source of my problem the secondary battery is reading 8.89. If keeping the two battery connect longer the primary will still be droping to .378, and so would the secondary down to 7.41. I took extra picture for u guys if u can spot something i can recognize which the source of the problem.
Primary voltage of 1.76 V not going to help you.

Find yourself a old discarded wall wart that says output of between 9 - 20 V DC
use that as your power for your primary battery, I have also used an external hard drive power supply and my favorite is old laptop power supplies they work very well. You might find one on an old answering machine / portable telephone that will do the trick for you.

Your first step will be to condition your batteries, or to get new ones. Old batteries do work about 60 -80 % of the time ( if they have not been abused or lack electrolite or physical damage ) but can take weeks to get reconditioned.

I hope this helps I really think your input voltage is the problem. ( at least one of them )
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  #524  
Old 04-08-2008, 11:51 PM
Runnningrage Runnningrage is offline
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Charger killer might had done it

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Originally Posted by ren View Post
Sep has a good point. The battery is either seriously damaged or you have a connection problem with your multimeter. Does your battery read 12+ while at rest? It may sound stupid but check with some different leads plugged into your multimeter if it is giving confusing and conflicting information. Often with cheap leads the wire connection can break without the insulation breaking, I have a few sets that have done that.

Failing that you need to figure out if your circuit is drawing amperage when connected. It may pay to make your circuit again, screw or bolt the transistor down to a piece of board and solder all connections bar the resistance. Its a bit hard to see but do you have a diode between emitter and base? If you find the mje transistor small and hard to solder the 2n3055 or tip3055 are bigger and easier to make connections. There seems to be a significant bundle of mess around your pins and this can complicate things.

And yes for a small rotor you need to have an appropriate gap between magnets, at least 1/1/2 magnet spacings if possible. Id suggest a 4 magnet rotor.

Good luck.
Hey Ren maybe you are right i did buy a charger for my batteries. That i read it charger batteries 600mini amps is that bad or does it matter. I'll give you more detail about the charger if you need to see it later. Also one time when i was connect the batteries to transistor. The batteries were fully charge i would see a spark come fly out on to the metal of the transistor. Does that mean the transistor is drawing power before run the motor.
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  #525  
Old 04-09-2008, 02:20 AM
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Sharing my progress

Hello All

Well I did not get the core I planned. The iron fillings became a challenge. So I found some metal tubing and small rods. Well pictures speak best.
And here are the links.

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...oilwirefan.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...z93728/box.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...728/filler.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...3728/wheel.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...3728/track.jpg

I did end up putting in a magnet out of a fan ( like in picture ) , it is on the
fat end of the coil. And of coarse the tip is pointed to the wheel and magnet.
The wire used for trigger and run is standard telephone cross connect wire.

Dodeca
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  #526  
Old 04-09-2008, 06:19 AM
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conditioning batteries

Hello, i have a question about how you all are conditioning the batteries used in the ssg.

I know that conditioning is charging and discharging.


But at what voltage should one stop discharging the battery and recharging the battery connected to the ssg again ?

Should it discharge all the way to zero all the time before recharging (which is not recommended by most)?

Or should one just discharge till the battery gets to lets say 8volts?

And then recharge?

Bottom line is how are you guys going about conditioning your batteries?

I mean are you doing it different because the ssg can restore the batteries if not physicaly damage?

I ask because my personal experience is that one should not get carried away with this on a regular charger because it will ruin the battery but then again this is not a regular charger which is why I am asking this simple question that apply to a complex yet simple machine (paradox).

Iluminate please.

Thanks


At least this is what is done to the batteries for the ssg correct?

Or can someone explain the process : short and simple?
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  #527  
Old 04-09-2008, 09:27 AM
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If you use a standard 12v Lead acid or gel cell batteries, you should NEVER discharge them to lower voltage than 10.5v. This will damage the battery beyond repair. That is the worst case, I would go for 12.0 as the lowest point. Also, when charged to say 13.5 (measured while charging), take the battery off the circuit and let it rest for some hours. The battery is much like a human, it needs a resting period between work. Also never discharge your batteries with too much current - it will also damage them. Use the so called c20 rate. For example, if you are sing a 40Ah battery then 40/20=2A. So you can safely discharge it with 2A current draw or 24W load.
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  #528  
Old 04-09-2008, 04:00 PM
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Further suggestion re battery usage

Guys,

To make more efficient usage of your batteries you may find it beneficial to only run them down to 12.4V, they take considrably less time to recharge from this point.

This based on 6yrs of playing with assorted 'free energy' projects.

Regards

Richard
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  #529  
Old 04-10-2008, 04:02 PM
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My SSG run

Dear All,


My SSG finally running. but the speed only about 120 rpm
I use round magnet 1" dia with 3/8" thick (18 EA)
Wheel = Allumunium bicycle wheel 24 " Dia
Coil : 0.75 mm and 0.50 mm 1000 turn winding parallel (not twist)
Core : Iron
Transistor : 2N3055
I adjusted the variable resistor but 120 the best Rpm I can get
Primary and charging battery using 12V 17AH lead acid battery

please advice how to get better speed ?

Best regards,

Selamatg
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  #530  
Old 04-10-2008, 06:28 PM
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Make a smaller airgap between magnets and coil. Also you can use two 12V batteries in series to get 24V on the primary but in this case it is advisable to use the same battery setup on the output.
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  #531  
Old 04-11-2008, 01:24 AM
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Looking for answers

Hi Everyone,

Can anyone tell me the reason for the light bulb on the trigger side of the SSG .thx in advance.


-Gary
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Old 04-11-2008, 02:14 AM
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Hi Jetijs,

Thank you for your advice,
Now I can get 185 RPM using 24 V on the primary battery.

Is round magnet maked slower too? I have rectangular magnet 6" x 1" x 1/2" ceramic type. anyone know how to cut the magnet?

Thanks,

Selamatg
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  #533  
Old 04-11-2008, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by gmeat View Post
Hi Everyone,

Can anyone tell me the reason for the light bulb on the trigger side of the SSG .thx in advance.


-Gary
It increases the resistance in the trigger as the power increases... just a handy way to tune the ssg though not essential and not 100% reliable since you will need a bulb that will match your ssg.
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  #534  
Old 04-11-2008, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeat View Post
Hi Everyone,

Can anyone tell me the reason for the light bulb on the trigger side of the SSG .thx in advance.


-Gary
Gary the light bulb can offer a few benefits. Firstly it is a form of resistance, and can often drop amp draw despite resistance being at what you may previously have deemed to be the maximum setting for your configuration. It can act as a tuning guide too, giving you an indication as to when there is too much current in the trigger winding.

Finally it can function with the neons to absorb the radiant if there is a faulty connection. I have a 12 volt 6 watt globe on my new trifilar and it works excellently.
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  #535  
Old 04-11-2008, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selamatg View Post
Hi Jetijs,

Thank you for your advice,
Now I can get 185 RPM using 24 V on the primary battery.

Is round magnet maked slower too? I have rectangular magnet 6" x 1" x 1/2" ceramic type. anyone know how to cut the magnet?

Thanks,

Selamatg

Selamatg, the round magnet doesnt have as sharp a flux line as a rectangular one will, and the switching generally wont be as quick. Well thats the theory anyway, I have seen 2 of JB's designs use them, although I am certain one of these at least uses a hall to trigger so that may be invalid.

Dont bother trying to cut magnets, especially ceramic as they are too brittle and will just crumble.
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  #536  
Old 04-11-2008, 12:13 PM
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It is the coil!

I just got through updating my SG.


Quote:
Originally Posted by selamatg View Post
Dear All,


My SSG finally running. but the speed only about 120 rpm
I use round magnet 1" dia with 3/8" thick (18 EA)
Wheel = Allumunium bicycle wheel 24 " Dia
Coil : 0.75 mm and 0.50 mm 1000 turn winding parallel (not twist)
Core : Iron
Transistor : 2N3055
I adjusted the variable resistor but 120 the best Rpm I can get
Primary and charging battery using 12V 17AH lead acid battery

please advice how to get better speed ?

Best regards,

Selamatg
It was running at 144RPM and only drawing 68.4mA. Like you, I wasn't happy with the way it was running so I investigated ALL aspects of the installation finally coming to the coil.


My old coil was 2000 wraps of 26ga and 28ga with r60 welding rod core. The core was snug but not tight so I filled the gaps with epoxy to keep it in place. Inductance on the old core was; 26ga = 200.4mH and the 28ga = 201.2mH. As I said, the best RPM was 144. The best Amp draw was 69.5 at fine tuning. Charging was REALLY slow and the good news is that the primary battery didn't run down fast.

The new coil is 1000 wraps of 26ga, 28ga, and 28ga. (As it turned out, the 28ga shorted so they were both used to operate the SG.) The core I used this time was 16d nails, 3-1/2 inches long. I took measurements as I was doing the core with an amazing find.

26ga air core = 14.97mHy
28ga air core = 14.65mHy
28ga air core = 14.92mHy

26ga snug core = 26.25mHy
28ga snug core = 26.18mHy
28ga snug core = 26.23mHy

After driving one more nail into the core so the core was REALLY TIGHT; (You can't hurt the coil by driving one more piece into it once it is wound.) here is what I got.

26ga really tight core = 1.038Hy!
28ga really tight core = 1.223Hy!
28ga really tight core = 1.238Hy!

So, there was a forty fold increase merely by jamming in an extra core piece.

So, what happened to the SG?

RPMs = 179.8
Draw = 144.8mA
AND, the high voltage spike went off the scale!

ALSO: the primary battery went from 12.23V to 12.19V overnight. That's not much discharge from the primary that I can see.

I hope this helps someone.
Warren
..
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Old 04-11-2008, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbreau View Post
I just got through updating my SG.

It was running at 144RPM and only drawing 68.4mA. Like you, I wasn't happy with the way it was running so I investigated ALL aspects of the installation finally coming to the coil.


RPMs = 179.8
Draw = 144.8mA
AND, the high voltage spike went off the scale!

ALSO: the primary battery went from 12.23V to 12.19V overnight. That's not much discharge from the primary that I can see.

I hope this helps someone.
Warren
..
I for fun did the exact opposite. I put only 4welding rods in. I was amazed that it still could push the wheel as fast as it could.

I think AT LAST I have a self sustaining system. I have been running the SSG for over a week and a half with the auto battery switcher with no loss in total voltage. My set of six golf cart batteries stay at 11.71 Volts as I switch them around. And my two other batteries are staying at 13.20, and 12.90 - 14.20 V.

In a few weeks of running 24/7 I should have some highly conditioned batteries! ( provided the ones I have do not have physical problems )

The Forklift battery looks like it will be next if this continues.
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Last edited by theremart; 04-11-2008 at 01:09 PM.
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  #538  
Old 04-11-2008, 09:12 PM
Runnningrage Runnningrage is offline
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One more last try

QUOTE=ren;18181]Sep has a good point. The battery is either seriously damaged or you have a connection problem with your multimeter. Does your battery read 12+ while at rest? It may sound stupid but check with some different leads plugged into your multimeter if it is giving confusing and conflicting information. Often with cheap leads the wire connection can break without the insulation breaking, I have a few sets that have done that.

Failing that you need to figure out if your circuit is drawing amperage when connected. It may pay to make your circuit again, screw or bolt the transistor down to a piece of board and solder all connections bar the resistance. Its a bit hard to see but do you have a diode between emitter and base? If you find the mje transistor small and hard to solder the 2n3055 or tip3055 are bigger and easier to make connections. There seems to be a significant bundle of mess around your pins and this can complicate things.

And yes for a small rotor you need to have an appropriate gap between magnets, at least 1/1/2 magnet spacings if possible. Id suggest a 4 magnet rotor.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]

Hey Ren what up i belief you were right the problem is definetly my coil. When tested my coil with 9v DC motor conneted to 12v battery i found the problem why because the to separtate were both connected to negative and positive side of the connect. Which isn't suppose to even conduct electricity when the wire are two wire wrap in next to each other. Here i post a drawing on what im talking about. There is electic tape inner of the coil i don't know if that make a different. I some can please give advice because start to feel like i need to throw in the towel

Attachment 470


Attachment 466


Attachment 469
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  #539  
Old 04-11-2008, 11:09 PM
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thx for the replies on the light bulb

Hi Everyone,

I came accross a strange anomally when checking different coil values on the trigger choke with an Led.The thing about this that has me scratching my head is why can I see up to 8 different pulsing spots past the 1st coil and before the 2nd coil that are lighting up off the SSG wheel,When I say lighting up I mean I see reflections off my magnets that are 1" long by 1/4" round and they are nickel coated so as to see a reflection and I know how you guys hate to hear this but yes they're neos .The point is how can I see 8 reflections when I'm only using 2 magnets .Well I figured my eyes must be playing tricks on me so I took a picture to verify If this could happen at the same TIME and it confirms that in fact it is happening at the same time.I guess the most logical answer is that my eye just cant notice the time change with regard to the speed of the magnets passing by those 8 points of reference and the camera is giving me the same affect as my eye sees.I can only get this affect with an old SSG coil with about 400' of #20 and #23 awg wire and can only get this on the #23 wire at about 1.2 amps.This core has the magnetized magnetite core.If i try normal air cores on the choke on the trigger I only get 1 or 2 pulses.

p.s. sorry for the lame post

-Gary
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Last edited by gmeat; 04-13-2008 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 04-12-2008, 12:07 AM
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ren ren is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbreau View Post
I just got through updating my SG.




It was running at 144RPM and only drawing 68.4mA. Like you, I wasn't happy with the way it was running so I investigated ALL aspects of the installation finally coming to the coil.


My old coil was 2000 wraps of 26ga and 28ga with r60 welding rod core. The core was snug but not tight so I filled the gaps with epoxy to keep it in place. Inductance on the old core was; 26ga = 200.4mH and the 28ga = 201.2mH. As I said, the best RPM was 144. The best Amp draw was 69.5 at fine tuning. Charging was REALLY slow and the good news is that the primary battery didn't run down fast.

The new coil is 1000 wraps of 26ga, 28ga, and 28ga. (As it turned out, the 28ga shorted so they were both used to operate the SG.) The core I used this time was 16d nails, 3-1/2 inches long. I took measurements as I was doing the core with an amazing find.

26ga air core = 14.97mHy
28ga air core = 14.65mHy
28ga air core = 14.92mHy

26ga snug core = 26.25mHy
28ga snug core = 26.18mHy
28ga snug core = 26.23mHy

After driving one more nail into the core so the core was REALLY TIGHT; (You can't hurt the coil by driving one more piece into it once it is wound.) here is what I got.

26ga really tight core = 1.038Hy!
28ga really tight core = 1.223Hy!
28ga really tight core = 1.238Hy!

So, there was a forty fold increase merely by jamming in an extra core piece.

So, what happened to the SG?

RPMs = 179.8
Draw = 144.8mA
AND, the high voltage spike went off the scale!

ALSO: the primary battery went from 12.23V to 12.19V overnight. That's not much discharge from the primary that I can see.

I hope this helps someone.
Warren
..

Very interesting results Warren, I have to get an inductance meter. I find it hard to believe just one or two rods can make such a difference By the way, what size is your battery?

Keep us informed!
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Last edited by ren; 04-12-2008 at 12:16 AM.
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