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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #451  
Old 03-23-2008, 12:12 AM
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sep was your trigger coil of the same dimension as your power coil? did you only test one size of winding/coil as the pickup/trigger? Mart that could be something worth trying....
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  #452  
Old 03-23-2008, 12:24 AM
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Inductivly coupled trigger winding

Hi Guys,
The relationship between the trigger winding and the power winding is that they are inductively coupled. What affects one strand will affect the others wound onto the coil, in the same way. It is how they connect to the circuit and what they are connected to that change the character of the wave.

If you watched my video you will have seen the “h” waveform. The hump of the “h” is the magnets approach to the stator core. Because the hump is above the zero volt line you would think that the voltage induced is positive. Well, it is I suppose. But the important thing you must realise is that the base of the transistor sees the hump of the “h” as negative voltage.

Only when the rotor pole passes TDC does the transistor see a positive voltage at the base, soon after TDC, the voltage at the base reaches 0.6v or so and the base of the transistor conducts. Once the base starts to conduct, current from the primary battery starts to flow through the power winding. As the current passes through the power winding of the coil a magnetic field starts to expand around the coil. The rapidly expanding field induces voltage in the trigger winding and as a result more current is passed to the base of the transistor switching it “on” harder, allowing more current to flow through the coil from the primary battery and across collector emitter of the transistor, adding to the expanding magnetic field.

The magnetic field doesn’t expand forever. Coil resistance, battery voltage, number of turns etc. all determine the maximum size of the magnetic field a coil can attain. A coil stores energy in it’s magnetic field and once the source of energy that charged the coil is removed, the field collapses. Coils hate change, so as soon as there is a change in input energy, the coil reverses it’s polarity in order to keep current moving in the same direction. I digress…

What switches the transistor off? Once the magnetic field stops expanding there is no more voltage induced in the trigger winding, there is no more current at the base of the transistor. In order to keep current flowing, the coil reverses its polarity. This does not help the base of our transistor, now it sees a negative voltage. (0.6v across the now reverse biased base emitter diode) The transistor base is now switching the transistor “off” even harder. The result, a high voltage transient spike, followed by the remaining energy stored in the collapsing field of the coil.

As an experiment, take a two strand SSG coil. Make sure you know which is the top pair and bottom pair of strands. Connect the cathode of an LED to one of the bottom strands and connect the anode of the LED to the top end of the same strand. Connect the negative terminal of a suitable battery to the remaining free bottom strand. Now short the positive side of the battery to the remaining top strand.

The LED will flash briefly, the moment of induction. Even though the power side of the coil is still shorted to the battery the LED only lit for the briefest of moments. It may give off another flash when you disconnect the battery. Another thing about coils and their magnetic fields, once the magnetic field has got as big as it’s going to get, the coil becomes a resistive load. The coil will become very hot and if you’re not careful the insulation of the windings will be burnt away and the coil will be ruined.

All The Best Lee…
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  #453  
Old 03-23-2008, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmydean View Post
Hello



For some reason I keep frying the resistors between the trigger winding (North lead) and the base of my 2N3055. I've tried a 1k pot and a 680 ohm resistor and as soon as I turn it on they just smolder. The battery is a 12V 7Ah rechargeable, and I am using 20 AWG for the power and trigger windings on a 3 inch wide by 3 inch long spool. I have gas welding rods for the core material but am just trying to get it working before putting them in. I don't have a charging battery but have a neon lamp setup from collector to ground and it isn't blinking. The lamp is rated at 120 VAC so I am not sure if this is too much for the circuit. I don't have a 1N4007 in the circuit. I am following the schematic from the Starters Guide-One.pdf found at the Bedini_SG yahoo group.

I've tested the coil by hooking my battery to the N and S leads of the trigger and power coils separately and the coils work fine when separated from the circuit.

Has anyone experienced this before? If there is a post with a similar experience please let me know. I have only made it to page 8 so far on this thread.

Thanks!
I've just come across a way to test the CIRCUIT. It is called the 1 ohm test and can be found on the Yahoo Bedini_Monopole3 group. Look for post number 2214. It explains everything to do BEFORE running the setup. BTW, this is a group for beginners, like me. I don't know about you but I want to AVOID as many mistakes as I can to get the setup up and running.

Warren
..
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  #454  
Old 03-23-2008, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbreau View Post
I've just come across a way to test the CIRCUIT. It is called the 1 ohm test and can be found on the Yahoo Bedini_Monopole3 group. Look for post number 2214. It explains everything to do BEFORE running the setup. BTW, this is a group for beginners, like me. I don't know about you but I want to AVOID as many mistakes as I can to get the setup up and running.

Warren
..
---------------------------
I have done the 1 ohm resistor with small batteries, but I have a question, will it just fry if I try that with my golf cart batteries? I am no electronics wiz, but I wanted to try it with my Golf cart batteries, but I am afraid I might just kill the resistor in a puff of smoke.

thanks
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  #455  
Old 03-23-2008, 06:47 PM
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1 ohm test

While I'm not positive, I think once you perform the one ohm test then you are *good to go* with ANY battery. It is MY understanding that the one ohm test is to ensure that we aren't trying to charge the battery with CURRENT! The LAST thing I want in this circuit is high amperage. That's what any wall-wart will do, or any store bought battery charger for that matter, supply current to the battery.

And too, if you've charged small rechargeables already, what makes you think that larger batteries are more of a problem? Whatever.

Warren
..
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  #456  
Old 03-24-2008, 03:06 AM
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crazy Ideaz

Hello Everybody,

Has anyone ever tried putting a soup can over a SSG coil ?.I wonder how that would affect things lol.


-Gary
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Last edited by gmeat; 05-05-2008 at 04:26 AM.
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  #457  
Old 03-24-2008, 06:03 AM
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Radiant soup
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  #458  
Old 03-24-2008, 09:41 AM
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If I remember correctly, Peter once said that this would increase rotor torque and speed, but the charging will suffer. I tried once to put a thick metal sheet on the other pole of my ssg coil. The amp draw increased a little.
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  #459  
Old 03-24-2008, 05:35 PM
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Do coils and capacitors do more than we were taught in electronics class?

Hello experimenters

Questions

1. Do coils and capacitors do more than we were taught in electronics class?
2. Is it possible that in an energized coil that "time/space" is squeezed?
3. Is it possible that between plates of a large high voltage cap "time/space" is stretched?


I have been studying and plan to build my own Bedini SG but with
my own modifications. I plan to use wheelchair wheels and 2 LARGE
magnets out of an old hard drive. As a tech I see the Bedini SG
as a efficient pulse motor with a cool way to use back EMF TO CHARGE
A BATTERY. I am posting my ideas so that I can get feedback from the
group and any success I will share in FULL. Also if a smarter person
can stop me from a bad idea or a dead end path ... that is most welcome.

I plan to build my own coil with a few changes to the standard model.

My coil will be a 1' long cylinder with a 1" diameter using glue and
iron fillings. This is dry while under a magnetic field.

I plan to wind three coils. Solid wire

Trigger coil - 22 ga
Run coil - 18 ga
Work coil - 12 ga ( this is the coil I hope to power a load with )

The windings will each be only ONE layer thick. ( I will limit current on RUN coil so as not to burn transistor )

Another idea I had was to remove the charging battery and use the
DC high voltage for charging 3" x 12" copper plates as in a capacitor.

My plan is to put the coil between these plates.

The concept being that capacitors stretch "time/space" energy
and that coils squeeze it.

Could this be one method of pulling energy from the vacuum?


Dodeca
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  #460  
Old 03-24-2008, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
My coil will be a 1' long cylinder with a 1" diameter using glue and
iron fillings. This is dry while under a magnetic field.
Dodeca,
you can do that and you should try, but using iron fillings as a core could make some problems as such core might not magnetize as good as an iron rod or the welding rods. This way it will not have enough magnetic force to repel the magnets properly. I tried using magnetite cores once, they work fine as a generator, but are weak electromagnets.
Nevertheless you should try this out!
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  #461  
Old 03-24-2008, 07:21 PM
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my three cores are iron filings.

though I don't think you should let it set under a magnetic field... pretty sure using a magnetically charged core is a bad idea...
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  #462  
Old 03-25-2008, 12:00 AM
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cool sound

Quote:
Originally Posted by ren View Post
Radiant soup


Hi Ren,

Radiant soup lol,I just had to try it.I currently have it running on .220 milliamps and it has a cool ringing sound to it but I'm not sure how well it will charge a second battery although as I write this my recovery battery stands at 13.04v so I'll let it run all night being its not even putting a dent in the run battery and I'll do a load test tommorow night.


-Gary
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Last edited by gmeat; 03-25-2008 at 01:43 AM.
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  #463  
Old 03-25-2008, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeat View Post
Hi Ren,

Radiant soup lol,I just had to try it.I currently have it running on .022 milliamps and it has a cool ringing sound to it but I'm not sure how well it will charge a second battery although as I write this my recovery battery stands at 13.04v so I'll let it run all night being its not even putting a dent in the run battery and I'll do a load test tommorow night.


-Gary
0.022 milliamps!?
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  #464  
Old 03-25-2008, 12:54 AM
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do you mean 0.022 amps? As in the 10 amp setting on a multimeter
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  #465  
Old 03-25-2008, 01:17 AM
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Hey Guys,

I'll say 220 milliamps for now because I dont have a analog panel meter as I have 3 digital meters and I also just uploaded a short video to show ya's my crackpot ideas lol.

YouTube - SSG low amps
-Gary
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Last edited by gmeat; 03-25-2008 at 01:42 AM.
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  #466  
Old 03-25-2008, 10:43 PM
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Hi Everyone,

Well I personally think that JB has a good point as far as low amps means more radiant and maybe thats the direction to explore so if anyone could post some low amp success #'s I for one would like to hear from all who want to post and by the way my load tests from last night are looking interesting.thx



-Gary
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  #467  
Old 03-27-2008, 05:12 AM
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I have some pictures and a responce to the replys from my last post.

Hello All

I have some pictures and a response to the replys from my last post.

My goal in using iron fillings and curing in a magnetic field is an
attempt to give my cores a magnetized orientation thus making a good
electromagnet and I don't believe the iron will not remain magnetically
charged

I think that answers the replys. And I hope I am right.

Here are links to some pictures.

Dodeca


http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...728/wheel1.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...728/wheel2.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...93728/mag1.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...93728/mag2.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/g...3728/sche1.jpg
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  #468  
Old 03-27-2008, 12:29 PM
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RE: low amps = more radiant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeat View Post
Hi Everyone,

Well I personally think that JB has a good point as far as low amps means more radiant and maybe thats the direction to explore so if anyone could post some low amp success #'s I for one would like to hear from all who want to post and by the way my load tests from last night are looking interesting.thx



-Gary
Well, I was thinking, about that on the video ( Energy From the Vacuum II ) for the large batteries he is using 10 amps. Granted there were 10 coils, so there was an Amp per coil but at 24V. Might we revise this idea to there is a scale of what is low depending on what the size of the batteries are?

Just a thought.
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Last edited by theremart; 03-27-2008 at 12:33 PM.
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  #469  
Old 03-27-2008, 12:32 PM
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RE: ramain charged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodeca View Post
Hello All

I have some pictures and a response to the replys from my last post.

My goal in using iron fillings and curing in a magnetic field is an
attempt to give my cores a magnetized orientation thus making a good
electromagnet and I don't believe the iron will not remain magnetically
charged
One test for this is to use a compass next to the core after you have been using it for a bit. This will show you if there is residual flux in the core.

Mart
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  #470  
Old 03-27-2008, 05:16 PM
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amps per winding

So each coil had 4 power wires and 1 trigger. So 4 transistors per coil. Wouldn't that be 1 amp per coil but 250ma per winding? The wires I think are twisted, 18 awg and about 100 feet each... so 5 wires about 100 ft each.



Quote:
Originally Posted by theremart View Post
Well, I was thinking, about that on the video ( Energy From the Vacuum II ) for the large batteries he is using 10 amps. Granted there were 10 coils, so there was an Amp per coil but at 24V. Might we revise this idea to there is a scale of what is low depending on what the size of the batteries are?

Just a thought.
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  #471  
Old 03-27-2008, 06:03 PM
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RE: Aarons point

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
So each coil had 4 power wires and 1 trigger. So 4 transistors per coil. Wouldn't that be 1 amp per coil but 250ma per winding? The wires I think are twisted, 18 awg and about 100 feet each... so 5 wires about 100 ft each.
Interesting point. I will have to look deeper at this again. And yet another thought, does the more windings you have require more amps?

Good point Aaron...
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  #472  
Old 03-27-2008, 11:56 PM
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I can say these things from my own findings guys. I have found that the bigger the battery is the more amps are needed on the front end to charge it past the 13v limit. I found my smaller chargers that pushed 25ma-150ma would charge a 7 amp/hour battery in fairly close ration to the front ends decrease but when it hit high 12's it would taper off and end up settling at 12.6 odd, which is still reasonalbly charged. My recent setup uses trifilar awg 18 x 120feet and it can push nearly 2 amps on the front end if tuned so. This isnt necessarily a good thing however.

I charged a 7 amp hour battey in about 2/1/2 hours pushing max current just to see how well it charged. Voltage went up to 14.5 and the test was terminated. After a decent rest period I noted that the battery had only risen from an original 12.35 to 12.62. I concluded that while a battery is under charge measuring its voltage isnt necessarily an accurate way to depict its charging rate. Like JB said, it must charge on natures curve.

I have found that the best charges for my sla batteries so far have been when the input ma was around the c20 of the battery being charged. It takes time for the charge to happen, but the battery ends up holding it much better.

As for multifilars drawing more, well they do. Without changing resistance a single winding will draw approx half that of what two will draw together. I can see just how easily ten quad filar coils draw 10 amps. Infact if that was my build I think Id have trouble keeping it below 12 amps with that many windings being powered. My trifilar (2 power) of awg 18 sits quite comfortably on 500ma, but could indeed draw more.

Anyway just my thoughts.
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  #473  
Old 03-28-2008, 07:22 AM
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by the way, does anyone else have pets that love the radiant?

My cat cant get enough. He goes to sleep next to the monopole all the time......but only when it is running!
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  #474  
Old 03-28-2008, 03:16 PM
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thanks mrbreau

thanks mrbreau. I'm going to give the 1 ohm test a shot here soon and I've been doing alot of reading on the bedini site you suggested. I found on my original coil that the trigger wire had a short and was causing the oscillation. I got some new 22 awg wire but was running a bit low on 20 awg so I decided to make one of these coils last night since my setup is really small : Winding Coils

The above coil has got QUITE a bit of punch to it when just briefly shorting the individual windings on my battery. My circuit on the other hand needs to be redone now.

Building lots of character right now, but man am I learning a lot!
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  #475  
Old 03-29-2008, 03:02 AM
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Hi Ren,


Have you tried the choke on the Trigger coil yet with the 18 awg wire to cut back on amperage? .Thx for sharing your thoughts .Also is this fella referring to you?.


YouTube - Video 18
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  #476  
Old 03-29-2008, 03:15 AM
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Hey G,

I have tried the coil but it didnt work for me. I was interested to learn that sep has filings for his core, I wonder if the inductional properties of these are such that a choke in the trigger winding is beneficial for him. What do you have for a core? I am using R60. The choke installed with a light bulb only wont run the wheel for me. Maybe I'll try a different choke. The cap can reduce amp draw significantly but I havent found one that increases speed as well. Funnily enough I can run with almost no resistance at all if the cap is in place for about the same amp draw.

Yeah, I used to chat with Nastrand @ overunity regarding pulse motors etc. Good guy, hes been studying at Uni lately so I havent heard much from him. They were some whoppin neos on that motor he had. Break your hands big
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  #477  
Old 03-30-2008, 12:50 AM
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Hi Ren,

I use two different cores,one is welding rods but not R60 they're about a 1/4" thick, that is the coil on the front of motor with the Radiant dog food can and the coil in back has a magnetite core wrapped with 1" steel pipe.As far as the choke I use an old bifilar SSG coil with #23 awg and #20 awg wire about 400' with strictly magnetite core.I really have to many variables in my setup and tend to try something new in the setup without doing enough testing first.Also, I dont use a light on the trigger coil as it tends to go Pooof when I accidently dont have a load hooked up .


-Gary
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  #478  
Old 03-30-2008, 02:24 AM
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lol thats one good reason to leave it in! Better the bulb than your transistor! What size globe? On my trifilar awg 18 I have a 12 volt 6 watt globe from an automobile shop. It lights up fully under little resistance and 1.5 amp draw. Have never blown it though, but if I do its in a little cradle so its easy to replace.

You should try removing the core of your choke coil and see if it makes a difference. Tesla used a choke coil with a removable core as a simple way to tune some of his devices. My understanding is that changing the amount of metal inside the coil varied the inductional properties of the coil. Might be an interesting experiment.
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  #479  
Old 03-30-2008, 08:24 AM
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SG Core

Guys,

JB recommends the R60 welding rod core for a reason the same as he recommends all the other aspects of a build. The 1/16" rods allow more of them per unit area. You should also allow them to rust naturally outside, do not paint them as has been suggested previously.

Grade 5 ceramics are all you need.

Adjust the base resistance to the absolute lowest value you can get it and then replace it with a fixed resistor. You might find you need to install a switch with a start up resistance and then a running resistance.

Then run the 1 ohm test.

You'll see that the battery charges quite slowly, I believe this is nature taking its course.

Whilst Sep's inductor on the trigger winding phenomenon is interesting I'm not sure it has any practical value.

Regards

Richard
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  #480  
Old 03-30-2008, 04:02 PM
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Made another video demonstrating the trigger choke with a strobe. It also shows amp draw and rpm as it is accelerating.

Comparison with and without the choke, as well as adding another choke in series just to show what happens.

YouTube - Bedini Trigger Choke Comparison - RPM & AMPS & STROBE

Sorry it is so quiet... had to use a different camera...
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