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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #421  
Old 03-19-2008, 10:18 PM
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theremart theremart is offline
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Well....

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
woohoo! Finally an optimistic result! Well done Mart!



also rather suprising since our ssgs are pretty different... I wonder what the link is because most people are reporting either a drop in rpm or no effect at all

are you using the same relay?
I checked RPM with my tach meter.

I will have to check my charging rate with my spread sheet, I has not been climbing very quickly, but I have changed many things about my system.

But, mind you I am using GOLF cart batteries. and only one coil SSG. And... to add more varibles I have added the solution to the batteries that desolves the sulfate from the plates that Aaron suggested. ( too many variables to for me to give an accurate idea now). I think I will pull the coil off and check it again. I bet the charge rate will go up but... again old golf cart batteries.

I am now using ceramic skateboard bearings. The hard drive bearings could not take speeds over 1,100 RPM. ( considering I have 6 lbs of PVC and magnets I could see why )

I first tried using a spare coil that I had with 20 Gauge wire that had no effect.

I then got in today my 8 relays for my battery swapper. One of them is rated for 12V. So I tried one kind on it and immediate results. But... I have not checked for voltage increase.

Since I have no scope, I have to ask the question what would Nicoli Telsa do since he had no scope. ( I bet he would buy a scope )


But, I was happy to see the RPM the same and the amps drop. Charging may be a factor...
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  #422  
Old 03-20-2008, 12:10 AM
smw1998a smw1998a is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
New user on youtube has an interesting modified motor...

YouTube - theDaftman's Channel

he believes the technique of charging the ssg using "back emf" is a "con".
Hello Seproth and All,
This is an interesting circuit and I posted a message to Daftman complementing his work. But regardless of what he says it IS the so called BEMF that is charging his secondary battery.

Regards Lee…

PS. Still working on the video.
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  #423  
Old 03-20-2008, 07:31 PM
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Lincoln welding rods

Hello, i was wondering if I could use 1/8 Lincoln welding rods instead of the 1/16. I ask this because Ace and Homedepot dont have 1/16 only 1/8 and bigger. But I think one of the Bedini sight said we could i quote:
"Rough cut okay. Diameter not crucial, could be smaller by 50% or larger by 100%."

Could somebody please tell me if I can use a larger welding rod?
I would like to know today, so I can hop on my horse and ride on to the Homedepot hardware store.

Thank you for yas help.
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  #424  
Old 03-20-2008, 10:24 PM
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You shouldnt have any problem. You can get it running with a solid bolt so a thicker core rod will be ok.
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  #425  
Old 03-20-2008, 11:45 PM
smw1998a smw1998a is offline
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YouTube Video

Hi Guys,
I can't link to my previous post, I'm new to this interface with lots of smily faces??? I have posted the video of seph's choke in the trigger circuit. It's a bit rough as I rushed it but hopefully you will inderstand what i'm banging on about.

YouTube - Inductor In Trigger Circuit

Regards Lee....
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  #426  
Old 03-21-2008, 12:55 AM
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Nice vid

Hi Lee,

Thanks for the very nice presentation of Seps idea of the inductor on the trigger coil and pointing out all the intricacies in the video so that a laymen can understand it.I just want to know did you find that your particular setup had Less rpm's with the inductor in the circuit? .Again thx for the great video .


-Gary


p.s. I think i may have just ruined a battery on a load test cause I could'nt help but to watch that vid a couple times to understand it completly
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  #427  
Old 03-21-2008, 01:34 AM
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Self excitation question

Greetings Bedinites, I've been lurking for a while now and have built a functioning unit. (many thanks to introvertibrate for great schematics and explanations)

I have been experimenting all my life and am quite strong in the mechanical fields but not so much electronically, so therefore my questions may demonstrate a lot of novice tendencies... that said, some of you with superior electronifications may be able to explain this to me.

My setup consists of a 5 inch rotor carrying 6 3/4 inch neos driven by a single bifilar coil.

the batteries are 14.4v nicad portable drill type and the system runs fine. I have 2 pots in the system, one coarse and one 400 ohm that I use for very fine adjustment. this permits me to tune the system torun at a sweet spot of about 190ma. on a full supply charge of 15.9v. it runs about 8hrs and puts out 16.57v max on the charge side.

Now for the tricky bit... when the supply battery discharged the voltage quickly fell to about 4.5v, but I noticed the system was still drawing about 150ma and still reading 16.46v on the charge side and this was without the rotor turning at all. (A slight transformer hum was audible from the coil which someone has mentioned before) I let this condition run for about 2 more hours when the final supply voltage was 1.66 and amps were 30ma. Charge voltage was still 16.28 (0.01 higher than the disconnected charge battery)

This leads me to question the need for a rotor at all? why not introduce an oscillation circuit into the mix and deliberately induce the self excitation and continue to extract the back emf from the coil? You would need some way to limit the starting supply amps as they read about 300ma if the self excitation begins with the supply batt at full charge.

Apologies if this has been discussed before, all comments are truly appreciated.

p.s. I have confirmed that this charging apparatus can resurrect scrap batteries as I connected one destined for recycling to the circuit and it seems to be retaining a charge longer and longer with each charging cycle!

thanks and keep experimenting...
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  #428  
Old 03-21-2008, 05:23 AM
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Great video Lee!

Great video Lee!

At the top right of the posts, you'll see a link called "permalink."

You can right click on that and "copy link location" (depends on browser) and copy that and then paste that in when you make a link as the URL for any specific post you want to link to.

You can past the link directly as a URL or you can type some text, highlight the text then click the icon with a globe and the 2 chain link icon to be able to post in a URL for the text link.
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  #429  
Old 03-21-2008, 06:58 PM
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Stumped

Hello

First off I just wanted to say I am really enjoying all the posts here and appreciate the professional attitudes. All these experiences are incredibly inspiring.

For some reason I keep frying the resistors between the trigger winding (North lead) and the base of my 2N3055. I've tried a 1k pot and a 680 ohm resistor and as soon as I turn it on they just smolder. The battery is a 12V 7Ah rechargeable, and I am using 20 AWG for the power and trigger windings on a 3 inch wide by 3 inch long spool. I have gas welding rods for the core material but am just trying to get it working before putting them in. I don't have a charging battery but have a neon lamp setup from collector to ground and it isn't blinking. The lamp is rated at 120 VAC so I am not sure if this is too much for the circuit. I don't have a 1N4007 in the circuit. I am following the schematic from the Starters Guide-One.pdf found at the Bedini_SG yahoo group.

I've tested the coil by hooking my battery to the N and S leads of the trigger and power coils separately and the coils work fine when separated from the circuit.

Has anyone experienced this before? If there is a post with a similar experience please let me know. I have only made it to page 8 so far on this thread.

Thanks!
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  #430  
Old 03-21-2008, 09:34 PM
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While I'm not a pro.....

At this setup I've noticed time and time again that a battery MUST be in place to accept a charge or the transistors will burn out. The energy you/we are producing HAS to go somewhere and the only place open is the primary battery through the transistor. It is my thinking that this creates a dead short at the transistor. I'm building my first SG right now and am just doing the electronics on it. I have all the parts BUT the 1k ohm pot.

Anyway, put a secondary battery in the circuit and see what that does.

Warren
..
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  #431  
Old 03-21-2008, 09:56 PM
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I'd like to think it's because of the battery missing from the equation but I've seen too many examples where a setup is working without one. If I didn't have the neon on the collector going to ground I'd think the transistor would start getting hot as the coil discharges or I've blown it or something. I've checked it (transistor) for damage and it's still got the same beta as when I started. I'm going to try and locate a different neon as per the spec I'm using, plus get a couple pots that can handle a bit higher wattage.

Oh, also the coil itself makes a high pitched whining sound when I turn it on in this config. The rotor magnets aren't replused or attracted to the coil, and just holding a magnet over the top (North pole) of the coil feels like the magnetic field is constantly being canceled out (does that make any sense?).

Thanks for the response.
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  #432  
Old 03-21-2008, 09:58 PM
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high pitch noise usually appears when the coils starts to self oscillate. That usually happens if the base resistance is too high.
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  #433  
Old 03-21-2008, 10:01 PM
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John Bedini SG group comments

For anyone who has not been involved with the Bedini SG group that was recently closed, I compiled the messages from John Bedini as he was posting them. I only have this from The end of Feb until a few days ago and it has a lot of valuable information that he has never really discussed openly before.

This link is the PDF: John Bedini SG yahoo group comments , it is 91 pages

It might take a few hours to go through this, but if you want to learn about the SG, it is best to hear straight from John.
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  #434  
Old 03-21-2008, 11:54 PM
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RE: closing of group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
For anyone who has not been involved with the Bedini SG group that was recently closed, I compiled the messages from John Bedini as he was posting them. I only have this from The end of Feb until a few days ago and it has a lot of valuable information that he has never really discussed openly before.

This link is the PDF: John Bedini SG yahoo group comments , it is 91 pages

It might take a few hours to go through this, but if you want to learn about the SG, it is best to hear straight from John.
Yes I belonged to that group, and I was shocked at the way it was closed.

It seems John and Sterling had a falling out?
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Last edited by theremart; 03-23-2008 at 09:21 PM.
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  #435  
Old 03-21-2008, 11:57 PM
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theres a bedini sg group that i applied to joi last week but have not been activated yet (no word from them at all)... perhaps that is it... apparently it had a database of spec and performance of many people's ssgs that I thought would be really interesting. If that is the group does anyone have a copy of the database?
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  #436  
Old 03-22-2008, 12:40 AM
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RE: data from the groups

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
theres a bedini sg group that i applied to joi last week but have not been activated yet (no word from them at all)... perhaps that is it... apparently it had a database of spec and performance of many people's ssgs that I thought would be really interesting. If that is the group does anyone have a copy of the database?
They have some great data there. What type of data are you looking for?

( if you are like me you want it all he he )
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  #437  
Old 03-22-2008, 12:47 AM
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I'll try another transistor then as well as new resistors. Thanks Jetjis.
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  #438  
Old 03-22-2008, 01:00 AM
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Great .pdf Aaron. Thanks for making this available!
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  #439  
Old 03-22-2008, 04:26 AM
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Battery Charging

Hello,

How long is it recommended to charge a battery for the first time with the SSG Charger?
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  #440  
Old 03-22-2008, 12:32 PM
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RE: battery charging time.

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Originally Posted by theinventor View Post
Hello,

How long is it recommended to charge a battery for the first time with the SSG Charger?
There is a thread here that talks about charging times with the SSG.

If this is not a new battery, I recommend you check the fluid levels of the battery before you go much further to be sure you do not create excess HHO gas. But, I normally check the voltage of the battery, and I just leave it on till it reaches 13.5 - 15 V. This may take days, or may not happen at all if the batteries are in poor condition. The ssg cannot fix physical problems ( broken plates, or damage from overheating ) but, it does have a history of doing great recovery of batteries.
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  #441  
Old 03-22-2008, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theremart View Post
They have some great data there. What type of data are you looking for?

( if you are like me you want it all he he )
I'm curious about the frequency other peoples ssgs are pulsing at compared to the amp draw and what the correlation between that and the charging effect is... but any (and, yes, ALL) comparitive results would be really handy!
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  #442  
Old 03-22-2008, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
I'm curious about the frequency other peoples ssgs are pulsing at compared to the amp draw and what the correlation between that and the charging effect is... but any (and, yes, ALL) comparitive results would be really handy!


Hi Sep,

I'm not sure but my particular setup gives me 2 different readings on each coil.At 260 milliamps I get 340 hertz on one coil but on the trigger coil I get 170 hertz.I use 18 guage wire on both coils but on the trigger coil i twisted and the other is wound normal.I'm sure this is probably the cause of it.On a side note with my paticular setup I found a strange affect that I get when I hold a piece of steel that I had laying around which is about 1.5"w by 2"L by 3/8 thick that if I put behind my front coil the motor speeds up with more amperage being drawn but if I put it behind the other coil the amperage lowers but I cant really notice any affect on speed.Can you or maybe another member verify this as I dont have a tach meter.thx and keep up the goood work



-Gary
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  #443  
Old 03-22-2008, 07:19 PM
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Hi Guys,

following Lee's experiment with the trigger choke under the strobe I have done a few tests which have revealed a few things about my motor.

The main thing is it's sweet spot is double pulsing. If I tune it so that is pulses once per magnet it shoots up to about 4500 rpm but draws around 750ma so it isn't as efficient a sweet spot.

Here is a strobe shot of the pulses with the choke in the circuit on the left and without the choke on the right

strobe.jpg

So with the choke i am getting two solid and very brief pulses with a delay equal to the length of the pulse in between. the pulses are roughly between 9 and 28 degrees so the total pulse is for 19 degrees of rotation.

without the choke there are two long pulses with a brief delay in between. The pulses occur roughly between 1 and 35 degrees so the total pulse range is for 34 degrees of rotation.
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  #444  
Old 03-22-2008, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmeat View Post
Hi Sep,

I'm not sure but my particular setup gives me 2 different readings on each coil.At 260 milliamps I get 340 hertz on one coil but on the trigger coil I get 170 hertz.I use 18 guage wire on both coils but on the trigger coil i twisted and the other is wound normal.I'm sure this is probably the cause of it.On a side note with my paticular setup I found a strange affect that I get when I hold a piece of steel that I had laying around which is about 1.5"w by 2"L by 3/8 thick that if I put behind my front coil the motor speeds up with more amperage being drawn but if I put it behind the other coil the amperage lowers but I cant really notice any affect on speed.Can you or maybe another member verify this as I dont have a tach meter.thx and keep up the goood work



-Gary
Gary, Thanks for that! just read your post after the post I made earlier and it looks like your setup is double pulsing as well!

Not sure what is causing the effect you noticed... I'll have a play around and see if anything happens
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  #445  
Old 03-22-2008, 07:42 PM
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"Sephiroth slaps himself on the head"

DOH! I just realised!!! with a six magnet configuration the pulse range musn't be over 30 degrees or it will start to repel the next magnet!!!!

Revelation: The reason I am getting improved rpm for amp draw is that without the choke my set up is putting drag on the rotor by repeling the incoming magnet for 5 degrees! wasted amp draw!!!

but with the choke it sits perfectly within the 30 degree range! no amps wasted! No drag on the rotor! Eureka!
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  #446  
Old 03-22-2008, 08:06 PM
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Hey Seph,

I'm getting that result without the choke on the trigger and i'm going to try the choke now to see what happens with both combos.I found a weird affect when I played with the steel behind the core that sped up the motor in my first post where I said it would speed up with more amperage also well,I said to myself what the heck why not see what happens with very little resistance and the amp draw went to 1.3 amps ouch! things started getting Hot but when I put the steel plate behind core the motor sped up more but NOW the amps dropped back to about 1 amp.I dont know what to make of this.Thx for sharing


-Gary
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Last edited by gmeat; 03-22-2008 at 09:32 PM.
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  #447  
Old 03-22-2008, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
"Sephiroth slaps himself on the head"

DOH! I just realised!!! with a six magnet configuration the pulse range musn't be over 30 degrees or it will start to repel the next magnet!!!!

Revelation: The reason I am getting improved rpm for amp draw is that without the choke my set up is putting drag on the rotor by repeling the incoming magnet for 5 degrees! wasted amp draw!!!

but with the choke it sits perfectly within the 30 degree range! no amps wasted! No drag on the rotor! Eureka!
wait a minute... it shouldn't even be able to pulse after the 30 degree mark! the incoming magnet should turn off the transistor at 30 degrees!

is it possible the switching time on the 2n3055 isn't fast enough and is causing the elongated pulses?

Perhaps my measurements are wrong... I'll double check.
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Last edited by Sephiroth; 03-22-2008 at 08:47 PM.
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  #448  
Old 03-22-2008, 09:46 PM
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the steel against the core of a trigger coil will vary the inductance of the trigger circuit. Heres a good page on induction given to me by a friend Magnetic fields and inductance : INDUCTORS

Think about the magnetic field that is encompassing the coil when it fires.

I imagine it will have a similar effect to the relay in the trigger circuit but it could also effect the nature of the power windings as these two are inductively related. Ive said it before but I think I will just go ahead and try and build it and back up what I say hey? A separate trigger coil would make for the finest tuning capability possible I feel. Look at Aarons tape motor, it has two trigger coils wound in series and they are separate from the power coils.

By the way some new pics of my recent developments. The circuit while looking ugly works really well. Amp draw is variable from 200ma up to 1.2 amps. Timing wheel is yet to be completed.
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Last edited by ren; 12-03-2009 at 10:42 PM.
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  #449  
Old 03-22-2008, 10:09 PM
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hey ren.

I've tried a seperate trigger coil but didn't have great results...

the obvious difference with a seperate trigger coil is that it will only ever produce one pulse... which is fine.

but bedini must have a reason for wrapping the power and the trigger together. my thought is that the power coil cuts off the trigger as it turns on so it can produce sharper spikes, but that is just speculation.

though since mine doesn't work as well on single spikes, that is probably why i didn't have good results. as you say aaron had escellent results with his tape reel motor... from what I have seen so far he has had the lowest amp draw compared to rpm.
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  #450  
Old 03-22-2008, 10:48 PM
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Wrapping of the coils.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
hey ren.

I've tried a seperate trigger coil but didn't have great results...

the obvious difference with a seperate trigger coil is that it will only ever produce one pulse... which is fine.

but bedini must have a reason for wrapping the power and the trigger together. my thought is that the power coil cuts off the trigger as it turns on so it can produce sharper spikes, but that is just speculation.

though since mine doesn't work as well on single spikes, that is probably why i didn't have good results. as you say aaron had escellent results with his tape reel motor... from what I have seen so far he has had the lowest amp draw compared to rpm.
-----------------------------------------

A friend of mine suggested to wrap the power coil on the coil, then the trigger coil on top of that ( not at the same time )

I might get around to trying this, as it would put the power coil closer to creating the magnetic field of the core.

Just another thought.
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