Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube 2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE - PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!!

2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference
PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!
http://energyscienceconference.com


Go Back   Energetic Forum > > >
   

John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #391  
Old 03-14-2008, 08:35 PM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
Message from Lee to Sephiroth regarding relay coil in the trigger circuit:

Quote:
Hello Sephiroth,

I have been working on a video presentation regarding my forwarded post to the energetic forum.

Congrats on you demonstration video!! The choke in the trigger winding clearly has a benefit in your set up. Unfortunately, what works for one person may not work for the next, this is the problem with home brew SSG's. Anything that reduces current draw on the front end while maintaining the same charge rate, more or less, is certainly a modification in the right direction.

As you will see in my video, when I get it finished, my RPM was reduced. The single coil unit I used to demonstrate your experiment was already well balanced regarding magnet spacing and coil construction. Also, the only inductor I had with enough inductance to make a difference was the coil of a 12v relay. This relay had quite a high resistance in the coil due to the fact that it had a low holding current, around 30mA.

What the video does show is the affect your modification has on rotor timing and transistor duty cycle in a very visual manor. My setup may have shown the effect to extreme, one of the problems I had with big coils around very small light rotors was rotor runaway, sometimes it is beneficial to introduce a small amount of drag and, on the other hand, sometimes it isn't.

I can only suggest that you engage in some load tests to see if the choke in the trigger improves battery charging efficiency relative to energy input. It's important to take relative measurements as you could miss a percentage increase at a lower energy input and miss it because your batteries "seem" to take much longer to charge.

Kindest Regards Lee....


PS. Feel free to re post this to energetic if you wish. I joined over a week ago but I'm still
What he says has got me thinking... even I would expect the rpm to be lower with shorter pulses so perhaps it is something about my motor which benifits from the relay coil...

I think Lee may have found the answer. Possibly because my rotor is very light, has a small diameter, little friction and three coils the torque/wieght ratio is so high it goes into "rotor runaway"... and of course the amp draw generally increases as the rpm increases.

The shorter pulses reduce the torque (as indicated by the slower acceleration) to a point where less is wasted. So it is more efficient.

SO.... new challenge. I want to add drag to the rotor in a way that will provide extra charge to the batteries... tried adding a few coils around the perimeter of the rotor but they only charge the cap up to 6 volts so need bigger recovery coils... will let you guys know if anything interesting happens!

until then, I think this is still a pretty good modification for small rotor ssgs...
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #392  
Old 03-16-2008, 02:45 AM
Runnningrage Runnningrage is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 45
"help Wanted"

I just bulit the entire thing today but nothing happen. A bad sign is the batteries

are getting warm so something definetly wrong with it. i have good background

knowledge on the bedini motor but still something must be wrong with. If you

can give me some advice ,or maybe i can send u some pic if u can point some

thing out on the pic i going to send u would greatly be please. Didn't want to

solder all of my connection so instead i used alligator clips. Just in case i want to

replace my transistor. I don't know if it matter i solder all of the connection are

not. I want so bad to make the motor run, but the trobleshooting is me making so

upset.

My the parts i pick are the source of the problem here is a list of them

- Power Battery (werker wka12 1.3F 12v 1.3Ah Lead Acid)
- Charge Battery ( YUASA 12V NP2.3-12 2.3Ah)
- Potentiometer 1-Megohm Liner-Taper
- Transistor 2N3055
- Resistor 10K-Ohm 1/2 watt 5% tolerance
- Diode 1N4007 1000V & 1N4001 diode
- Alligator clips for connection expect transistor i solder 1N4007 & 1N4001 diode to the Base with Emitter and collector
-Magnets are facing north

The coil doesn't turn to a eletricmagnet i connect the batteries to it, but it's suppose to arract the magnets to the electricmagnet coil
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #393  
Old 03-16-2008, 02:46 AM
Runnningrage Runnningrage is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 45
I just bulit the entire thing today but nothing happen. A bad sign is the batteries

are getting warm so something definetly wrong with it. i have good background

knowledge on the bedini motor but still something must be wrong with. If you

can give me some advice ,or maybe i can send u some pic if u can point some

thing out on the pic i going to send u would greatly be please. Didn't want to

solder all of my connection so instead i used alligator clips. Just in case i want to

replace my transistor. I don't know if it matter i solder all of the connection are

not. I want so bad to make the motor run, but the trobleshooting is me making so

upset.

My the parts i pick are the source of the problem here is a list of them

- Power Battery (werker wka12 1.3F 12v 1.3Ah Lead Acid)
- Charge Battery ( YUASA 12V NP2.3-12 2.3Ah)
- Potentiometer 1-Megohm Liner-Taper
- Transistor 2N3055
- Resistor 10K-Ohm 1/2 watt 5% tolerance
- Diode 1N4007 1000V & 1N4001 diode
- Alligator clips for connection expect transistor i solder 1N4007 & 1N4001 diode to the Base with Emitter and collector
-Magnets are facing north

The coil doesn't turn to a eletricmagnet i connect the batteries to it, but it's suppose to arract the magnets to the electricmagnet coil
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #394  
Old 03-16-2008, 03:22 AM
gmeat's Avatar
gmeat gmeat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 264
You have to much resistance

Hi Runnningrage,

Try to lower your resistance value.I would suggest eliminating the 1 megohm pot completly.Basically you have to much resistance and want around 680 ohm to begin and adjust up or down from there.Hope this helps

-gmeat


p.s. You should delete your post in electric motor secrets thread to save yourself a flogging from Peter as that thread is strictly for his motor design ideas.
__________________
 

Last edited by gmeat; 03-16-2008 at 03:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #395  
Old 03-16-2008, 05:55 AM
Runnningrage Runnningrage is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 45
Thank

Thank gmeat you have built on of the motor did you have problems with it before or every heard some have this much troubleshooting
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #396  
Old 03-16-2008, 11:24 AM
Jetijs's Avatar
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,134
Too much resistance on the transistor base should not get the batteries go warm. Sounds more like a short, that could be due to a fried transistor. Doublecheck your wiring and try a new transistor. Do you have a neon bulb across the emitter and collector of the transistor? DO NOT power the thing without any charging battery attached. Also if your batteries are going hot, try to measure their voltage before and after a quick test, this way, if the voltage after the test is considerably lower, then you got a short in the system, probably in the transistor. If it was a dead short, then your wires should get hot very quickly and the insulation would start to melt (you would smell that). But if your transistor is dead, it could let some moderate current to flow through - big enough to get the batteries to heat up, but small enough to leave the wires in tact. I noticed the same problem when I blew up one of my SSG transistors - it would not switch but instead let the current directly through, like a closed switch. In my case it was about 4 amps of current draw. If you had a direct short, there would be a lot more amps flowing and melting all the wiring
So I bet on the transistor.
Hope this helps.
Jetijs
__________________
It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

Last edited by Jetijs; 03-16-2008 at 01:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #397  
Old 03-16-2008, 12:49 PM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
Hi RunningRage! Good to see you here!

Have you managed to achieve rotation or are the batteries/transistor heating up as soon as you connect them?

Jetijs and gmeat are right, your resistance is WAY to high but that shouldn't be causing the batteries to heat.

Are you sure the emitter and base are the right way round? with the poles closest to you the resistor should be connected to the right hand pole. (I made and error at one point at the end of my video where I accidently flip-flopped the schematic )
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
  #398  
Old 03-17-2008, 04:44 PM
Runnningrage Runnningrage is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 45
Maybe it the length of wire

When i researching on the bedini motor i want to have the best result. Even

if it was a beginner vision of the motor. I was told to make the wire a short a

possible. I hate to unsolder the wire again. First i going to switch the resistor

see if that help guys but it that false make wire longer. Nice quote Jetisjs;

even invention has it errors it's a test for the person who building it. To endure it with patient so it can reveal it secrects to you just like NIKOLA TESLA.

Who has seen the movie the Prestige. I was watching the movie Prestige the other day. Were David Bowie who played Nikola Tesla. The machine had have

many errors with the machine but if could harnest the power of machine it reveal its secrects. The bedini motor has it own secrects too charging many

batteries just running on one. Multiplication it reflect the same pricipales as the Nikola Tesla machine coping a man infinity amount of time. When batteries

are expose to this type of power you conduct electricity through uncommon materials like plastic. Where in the movie Tesla

demonstrated electricity can run through man without harming him, and power a load like a lightbulb. If we keep doing research on these bedini motor more,

more, secrect are going to come out. Then the world would know what they been missing.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #399  
Old 03-17-2008, 05:12 PM
Chip Shorter's Avatar
Chip Shorter Chip Shorter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
If you really want a good charge replace the transistor and its driver winding with a reed switch. Leave the big diode in. Once you get the timing right you will see some cool stuff.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #400  
Old 03-17-2008, 08:25 PM
Runnningrage Runnningrage is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 45
I figure out my 12v small capcaity primary battery is dead

Can charge (1.3A12-1.3F 12v 1.3Ah AGM Sealed Non-spillable battery) with your car
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #401  
Old 03-17-2008, 11:37 PM
theinventor theinventor is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 18
need help with power coils and trigger coil

What kind of reed switch in particular would be an allaround good r.witch to use for the ssg's?

I need to know if this (the bedini monopole radiant mechanical oscillateor Charger) uses 2# 22's (power coils) and 1# 26 (trigger coil).
Obviously, this is a tri-filar coil i just need to make sure of the sizes of the coils will some one please enlighten me?

Thanks for yas help!!!
__________________
 

Last edited by theinventor; 03-17-2008 at 11:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #402  
Old 03-18-2008, 12:03 AM
theinventor theinventor is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 18
here is the schematic

mono_pole19 radiant mechanical oscillator charger.jpg

here is the schematic. sorry i forgot
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #403  
Old 03-18-2008, 12:46 AM
ren's Avatar
ren ren is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,108
just a little something I found interesting guys. I put a small uf rated cap between the base and the positive of the run battery and the amp draw dropped. Interestingly enough the voltage on the cap is higher than the battery??
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #404  
Old 03-18-2008, 12:48 AM
Jetijs's Avatar
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,134
and how this changed the RPM's?
__________________
It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #405  
Old 03-18-2008, 12:57 AM
ren's Avatar
ren ren is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,108
im not too sure what or if it offers any advantage as yet, besides the primary drawing less. It slows down rotation, but allows you to use alot less trigger resistance. For example. I ran my trifilar perspex rotor on full resistance @ 24 volts and amp draw is 200ma +. With the cap in place it drops to less than 50 ma and I have to decrease resistance to find the sweet spot again. Dunno if it will actually amount to anything, just interesting.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #406  
Old 03-18-2008, 01:15 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 11,027
cap and relay in parallel

Sephiroth,

Have you tried putting a small uf cap in parallel to your relay choke?

Anyway, do you have other systems to experiment with? Since you do get an increase in rpm with your choke, I think it is important to preserve that model. Would love to see others get higher rpm too... Lee didn't but maybe his choke had too many winds for his setup.

Aaron
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #407  
Old 03-18-2008, 01:29 AM
Chip Shorter's Avatar
Chip Shorter Chip Shorter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
theinventor- the reed switch I would use is something that can handle the voltage and current. It will arc and turn black and eventually burn out. So the bigger the better. I have had luck with the glass 25mm ones check supply houses for these things as they turn up often for real cheap.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #408  
Old 03-18-2008, 06:11 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 11,027
cap and coil in parallel

Sephiroth, a cap in parallel with the inductor will probably just make it oscillate. Never mind
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #409  
Old 03-18-2008, 10:17 AM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
Aaron - I'll give it a go just to see what happens

my new batteries arrived today so looking forward to seeing how they respond!

Ren - How exactly have you hooked the cap to your circuit? Do you mean it is in parralell with the primary battery?
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
  #410  
Old 03-18-2008, 12:04 PM
theremart's Avatar
theremart theremart is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,415
Quote:
Originally Posted by ren View Post
just a little something I found interesting guys. I put a small uf rated cap between the base and the positive of the run battery and the amp draw dropped. Interestingly enough the voltage on the cap is higher than the battery??
I have been putting a cap on the primary battery for some time, it seems to help smooth out the sudden draws.

Something I see very interesting to me, is I have seen someone put a bridge rectifier on the charging side... Still trying to figure out the advantages of that.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #411  
Old 03-18-2008, 02:32 PM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
I have seen bridges on recovery coils like in the original bedini monopole... I can't imagine how a bridge would be work with the charging battery on the base of the primary coil like on the ssg... was that in Pwordchernoir's schematic? I noticed his is a bit different but haven't had a chance to study his schematic.


New user on youtube has an interesting modified motor...

YouTube - theDaftman's Channel

he believes the technique of charging the ssg using "back emf" is a "con". He is using recovery coils instead and says the motor has been running for months without draining the batteries. Not sure what is happening in his circuit but it looks like it would step up the voltage to 48v from 12v before it reaches his charging battery. Of course there will be other "effects" going on with the sharp pulsing from the reed switches
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
  #412  
Old 03-18-2008, 05:15 PM
Chip Shorter's Avatar
Chip Shorter Chip Shorter is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 74
Don't know what he means by a con though I suspect its slang for things not being what they seem. I have always understood a certain time componet involved with the magnetic field from the inductor collapsing back into voltage. Its all the quantity of the pulse but it is shortened by advanced circuitry. Also his use of reeds allows a timing element to be employed into the motor design to allow for advancing and retarding to then gain speed. We should see if we can get Daftman to join this board. Sometimes another perspective leads to new things. A quick note about reeds. There is a time element that has to be respected when using reeds as there is hysteresis ie there not as fast as a transistor. Also you can capture the radiant event itself off the reed if your clever as it does bounce around a magnet. As far as advancing motor timing for speed I suppose one could make a seperate trigger coil to fire the transistor at a little cost to motor speed. I have not tried this yet.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #413  
Old 03-18-2008, 06:53 PM
gmeat's Avatar
gmeat gmeat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 264
Thx Sep

Hi Sep,

Thx for the link , I found it to be very informative.I like the way this guy thinks .


-Gary
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #414  
Old 03-18-2008, 09:40 PM
ren's Avatar
ren ren is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,108
mechanical switching will always be superior to ss switching when designed properly imo. The problem arises with longevity. I was reading a Tesla patent the other day where he states the use of mercury as a conducting fluid to break motor pulses.


@ Sep. I place a small uf (10-80uf) cap with the negative to the base of the master and the positive to the positive of the run battery. You get various effects by placing it on the Emitter too, but above was the only way the voltage read above the battery. Good idea to have a small fuse in the negative leg as well. My amp panel has a 500ma fuse I blew when I tried a cap that was too big. Rather that than the transistors. YOu may have to back off your resistance. Could be interesting with the relay coil in there too.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #415  
Old 03-19-2008, 02:10 PM
Jan H Jan H is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 53
Ren,

The mercury you mentioned gave me an idea... these switches exist in room thermostats, they are normally gravity operated, but would it be possible to trigger those with magnets?


This could in theory do the job, but it is still a liquid and i think it will act a little unpredictable.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #416  
Old 03-19-2008, 05:13 PM
theremart's Avatar
theremart theremart is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,415
Sephiroth adding choke to the circuit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
ok guys...

without the choke, the best sweet spot I can get is drawing 410ma at 2600rpm
so pulsing at about 260 hertz

WITH the choke it is drawing 280ma at 2700rpm...
so pulsing at about 270 hertz
rotor magnets at all... that seems like a good thing, no?
I tried this today on my SSG with generator. Cut my amps in 1/2 rotation the same, output of my generator is 11.5 V at with an input of 12V at .5 amp

Aaron, thank you also for telling me what a choke is

WOOW Thanks a MILLION
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #417  
Old 03-19-2008, 06:03 PM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
woohoo! Finally an optimistic result! Well done Mart!



also rather suprising since our ssgs are pretty different... I wonder what the link is because most people are reporting either a drop in rpm or no effect at all

are you using the same relay?
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
  #418  
Old 03-19-2008, 07:46 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 11,027
choke trigger results

Very cool Mart!

How did you measure rpm?
Is the 0.5 amps after the choke so it used to draw 1 amp?

Do you have a scope to show a before/after shots?

Any difference in ability to charge batts?
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #419  
Old 03-19-2008, 07:49 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 11,027
mercury switch

I used a mercury switch a long time ago on the "dual battery charger" with the trifilar charging a cap bank. I set the pulley with a copper contact that came around and flicked the switch to get the mercury to make contact between the leads...that discharged the cap bank. It worked but not sure how it really did compare to copper contact switch.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Reply With Quote
  #420  
Old 03-19-2008, 08:50 PM
ren's Avatar
ren ren is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,108
Interesting Jan and Aaron. Better start collecting old thermometers and thermostats hey

Good work on confirmation of results Mart! I think I'll have to go and buy some relays
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

Choose your voluntary subscription

For one-time donations, please use the below button.


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers