Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube 2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE - PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!!

2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference
PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!
http://energyscienceconference.com


Go Back   Energetic Forum > > >
   

John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:39 AM
Cyrus's Avatar
Cyrus Cyrus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15
Send a message via AIM to Cyrus Send a message via Yahoo to Cyrus Send a message via Skype™ to Cyrus
Angry Bedini motor high torque?

Hey fellas.

Does anyone have any idea how it is possible to make a pulse motor much like how bedini is to have high torque? or at least higher?

Im about to try and use both poles on the coils to spin rotors that are on the same shaft and see if it will improve torque. The rotors are gunna get cnc'ed soon and i plan to use IGBT Fast Switching HGTG27N1200 1200V 72A transistors to power the coils with higher power.


but if anyone has any ideas (good or bad doesnt matter) please let me know.


Thanks.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #2  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:47 AM
theremart's Avatar
theremart theremart is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,415
Hi torque.

The Bedini is not really designed for hi torque, as Bedini has said himself if you try to go for torque you will give up charge.

I attempted High torque with mass ( 6lbs of magnets and PVC ) and was somewhat successful. Ren, had the most scary one with his EXTRA LARGE BAY WINDOW MONSTER MOTOR

I guess one could use multiples of coils and a flywheel to go after torque, but I have had limited success in pursuing it.

Perhaps the Adams motor may be a better way to head...

__________________
See my experiments here...
http://www.youtube.com/marthale7

You do not have to prove something for it to be true. However, you do have to prove something for others to believe it true.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:58 AM
tecknomancer tecknomancer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 127
Coils charging capacitors

This is just an idea but if you use the coils to charge Capacitors then make a second set of electromagnets fire opposite the pulse or sequentially it may improve torque. I have been thinking how to solve this exact problem but nothing built yet
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-09-2008, 02:10 AM
Shamus's Avatar
Shamus Shamus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ur-th
Posts: 367
A multicoil arrangement that is set up to fire sequentially instead of all at the same time is another approach to developing torque with a Bedini style energizer. My replication of the top half of his eight coil turntable setup that he shows in EFTV2 is the only setup that I've seen able to develop some decent torque, and it's the only one that I can give the rotor a tiny push to get it to take off. I think even more torque can be developed using this arrangement to fire more coils in the "off time" of the others.

If that's as clear as mud, I'll post some pictures. It's harder to explain the concept with words than pictures.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-09-2008, 05:04 AM
Cyrus's Avatar
Cyrus Cyrus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15
Send a message via AIM to Cyrus Send a message via Yahoo to Cyrus Send a message via Skype™ to Cyrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by theremart View Post
Perhaps the Adams motor may be a better way to head...

Ive never looked at the adams motor but after a quick search it seems to be very similar to bedini's. Its hard to even see a difference other than instead of using a trigger wire adam uses something else like a reed switch?



Shamus the pulse motor ill be making is going to be just like you say (sequentially). The rotor will have 6 circular holes on one side and the other side will have 6 holes but offset so the holes are between the other side's holes. The stator however will have 7-8 coils on it so it makes that sequential. If that makes sense.. Look at the attachment if u wana see what is being made.



Dont mind me telling you about what ill be making. IF anyone has any ideas on creating torque please be free to tell me because my plans can always be changed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg pulse-motor-rotor.jpg (22.8 KB, 135 views)
__________________
 

Last edited by Cyrus; 10-09-2008 at 05:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-09-2008, 05:51 AM
kniteowl kniteowl is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7
If you want high/higher torque, you have to build the window motor. If you read all the notes, and threads from JB as well as all those who have built big machine, the normal SSG style is normally called an energizer and not really meant to be a motor, it has marginal torque, but potentially high speed, and the only work that should be perform with it is most likely to add a fan blade to it. It was never meant to do torquey things. It is an energizer with a little motor function.

The window motor (notice, it is called a motor not an energizer) will give you torque to do more work, and still give you charging feature, however it is much harder and require more work than the SSG style. Not really meant for someone new at it, but worth it if you can do it. As theremart stated earlier, Ren probable has the most experience in this case and I would have to say that he has one of the best example of this one.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-09-2008, 06:18 AM
ren's Avatar
ren ren is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,108
(Window motor currently being re-assembled with hardcore bearings due to safety concerns @ high speed)

Cyrus make sure you do your homework before you pay $$$$ for a machined rotor.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:28 PM
Matthew Jones's Avatar
Matthew Jones Matthew Jones is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,741
You could just stack several Bedini motors in circle. Build each with a trigger and 2 extra wires. Make them semi pie shaped so they could surround the wheel.
Say if you had 16 coils around a wheel with 4 magnets you may develop a little torque. The magnets would not have dead spot between coils firing. But I don't know how that would effect the charging.

Matt
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-09-2008, 04:22 PM
peper10's Avatar
peper10 peper10 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Quebec Canada
Posts: 122
Send a message via MSN to peper10
Hi to everyone!!

I don`t want to play disturbance here.
But Radiant1 have a verry promissing setup(for the torque part).
I know he is not here anymore,but,i think the setup he ad must have another
look.
With a little research i know that reorganized geometic coils,it can be possible
to have added torque by 30%.
I revisit THETRUTHBEEKNOWN on YOUTUBE and with direct impulse with
verry strong neodinium magnets he have 4X the impulse..
Greater the impulse=more torque apply on the flywheel..
That is just my oppinion!!!!

Alain D
__________________
Hope die last!!!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-09-2008, 05:22 PM
Cyrus's Avatar
Cyrus Cyrus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15
Send a message via AIM to Cyrus Send a message via Yahoo to Cyrus Send a message via Skype™ to Cyrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by ren View Post
Cyrus make sure you do your homework before you pay $$$$ for a machined rotor.
Machining the rotor will be free only thing thats gunna cost me is the material which is about $30 for a round aluminum rod 8in diameter by 1in thick.

One thing that got me thinking pulse motors will work is this: YouTube - TIGA 可変界磁モーター  variable field magnet motor  Solar Car

Btw kniteowl is this the window motor your talking about? If so it seems much like a pulse motor but instead it activates on both sides at once or something similar to one side pushing and the other side pulling. YouTube - Window 36v


Can anyone clarify in simple terms?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-09-2008, 05:24 PM
Cyrus's Avatar
Cyrus Cyrus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15
Send a message via AIM to Cyrus Send a message via Yahoo to Cyrus Send a message via Skype™ to Cyrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by peper10 View Post
I don`t want to play disturbance here.
But Radiant1 have a verry promissing setup(for the torque part).
I know he is not here anymore,but,i think the setup he ad must have another
look.
With a little research i know that reorganized geometic coils,it can be possible
to have added torque by 30%.
I revisit THETRUTHBEEKNOWN on YOUTUBE and with direct impulse with
verry strong neodinium magnets he have 4X the impulse..
Greater the impulse=more torque apply on the flywheel..
That is just my oppinion!!!!

Alain D
peper do you have any videos relating to this?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #12  
Old 10-09-2008, 05:28 PM
peper10's Avatar
peper10 peper10 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Quebec Canada
Posts: 122
Send a message via MSN to peper10
Read previous tread

Yes!Go to Mecanicaly driven pulse motor tread.
This tread is an unfinish biseness and i think it`s worth another look.
__________________
Hope die last!!!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-09-2008, 05:42 PM
peper10's Avatar
peper10 peper10 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Quebec Canada
Posts: 122
Send a message via MSN to peper10
If anyone can help!!

I don`t know how to put a direct link to the tread?
Anyway i give you a pic to better understand the setup.
And as i mention earlier,by reoriented the coils a couple of degre past 90,
like 120 degre,you could have the impulse stronger by 30%.MyPulseMotor2.jpg

Alain D
__________________
Hope die last!!!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-09-2008, 07:25 PM
ren's Avatar
ren ren is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
Machining the rotor will be free only thing thats gunna cost me is the material which is about $30 for a round aluminum rod 8in diameter by 1in thick.



Btw kniteowl is this the window motor your talking about? If so it seems much like a pulse motor but instead it activates on both sides at once or something similar to one side pushing and the other side pulling. YouTube - Window 36v


Can anyone clarify in simple terms?
Cool, always handy if you can get the work done for free. The window motor you see in the video above is one way you can build it. It allow for interaction on both poles (in this case 180 degree opposites) with every pulse. There is no core in the stator, eliminating losses associated with cores in general. This pretty much eliminates cogging too, and it should be obvious that this motor can act like a generator as well. And the coil is very cleverly switched, it allows bi directional current flow through the power coil. Current flows both ways...hmmmm. Essentially the batteries terminals are being flip flopped over the coils terminals every pulse. Or the coil is unwound and rewound in opposition each pulse

Magnets are spinning in the "A" field of the conductor. (Google). With a little imagination Im sure you could figure out multiple coils around the rotor. There are so many different configurations.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-10-2008, 12:55 AM
Cyrus's Avatar
Cyrus Cyrus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15
Send a message via AIM to Cyrus Send a message via Yahoo to Cyrus Send a message via Skype™ to Cyrus
Quote:
Originally Posted by peper10 View Post
I don`t know how to put a direct link to the tread?
Anyway i give you a pic to better understand the setup.
And as i mention earlier,by reoriented the coils a couple of degre past 90,
like 120 degre,you could have the impulse stronger by 30%.Attachment 1308
Peper thats pretty much what im going to do but instead of having 4 coils ill have 7 or 8. My plans are set for 8 atm but i still have more testing to do on the stator. MY coils however will each be connected individually so they will not be linked to another power coil on the opposite side like that image displays.

Ren thats pretty interesting stuff. Not having a core to worry about is definitely something to look into. Can you link me to a source where i can read up into this in more detail? Ive tried google it but i have only found replications.

Also ren you reminded me of something when you talked about cores. Does anyone know of good core material and sources to buy them? So far through all my research ive found this info about possible cores to use:

1. Muller's amorphous polycrystalline core material - no details


2. magnetite composite - no details


3. Diamagnetic materials
Certain materials are diamagnetic, which means that when they are exposed to a strong magnetic field, they induce a weak magnetic field in the opposite direction. In other words, they weakly repel a strong magnet. Some have been used in simple levitation demonstrations.

Strongest
Bismuth and carbon graphite are the strongest diamagnetic materials. They are about eight times stronger than mercury and silver. Other weaker diamagnetic materials include water, diamonds, wood and living tissue. Note that the last three items are carbon-based.


Now if anyone can find a place where i can buy some of this stuff let me know.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-10-2008, 02:57 AM
Shamus's Avatar
Shamus Shamus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ur-th
Posts: 367
Here's a picture of my four-pole monopole to illustrate the concept: The coils are positioned so that two coils are always firing in-between the travel of one magnet to the next, from the POV of a stator coil. In other words, with eight magnets around a rotor, you normally have 45 degrees of travel between magnets. But by putting a pair of coils (or a single coil for that matter) at 22.5 degrees, you double the kick that the rotor would normally get from a standard configuration. By extending this concept you can develop even more torque. You might want to draw your rotor/stator configuration with the magnets aligned with various coils to get an idea of exactly when things will be firing to know what to expect with that configuration.

Of course you can get good torque from a properly built window motor, but where's the challenge in that?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2+2 geometry.jpg (8.1 KB, 66 views)
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-10-2008, 10:58 PM
Cyrus's Avatar
Cyrus Cyrus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15
Send a message via AIM to Cyrus Send a message via Yahoo to Cyrus Send a message via Skype™ to Cyrus
This is my setup.

The yellow circles, except the middle one, are the cores of the coils. Rotor has 6 magnets each and stator has 8 coils.
ImageShack - Hosting :: topviewpulsemotorzd0.gif




And this image is the side view showing how the 2 rotors are connected to a shaft and between them are the coil spools on the stator.

ImageShack - Hosting :: sideviewpulsemotoroq7.gif



Then all goes in a pretty housing like so:

ImageShack - Hosting :: rotorhousingfinishedtk8.gif
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-11-2008, 01:59 AM
Shamus's Avatar
Shamus Shamus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ur-th
Posts: 367
Interesting design; it should deliver some pretty good torque in this configuration. Interesting to note that while the wheel turns counterclockwise, the coil firing pattern will be clockwise. Let us know how it works out for you.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6+8 geometry.jpg (18.5 KB, 77 views)
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-12-2008, 04:59 AM
Cyrus's Avatar
Cyrus Cyrus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15
Send a message via AIM to Cyrus Send a message via Yahoo to Cyrus Send a message via Skype™ to Cyrus
Has anyone tried connecting the radiant output to something that collects the energy fast like a capacitor and feeding back that energy into powering the power coil?

Any positive results?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-15-2008, 05:48 AM
Cyrus's Avatar
Cyrus Cyrus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15
Send a message via AIM to Cyrus Send a message via Yahoo to Cyrus Send a message via Skype™ to Cyrus
I have ran a test to see what i could do with the radiant output from the bedini circuit. I took the positive from the output and connected it to the positive wire on the power coil. What happened was the amp reading suddenly dropped from .40amps to .09amps and the rotor slowed down a bit (not much at all).

Does anyone have any idea what is going on?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 10-15-2008, 06:48 AM
elias's Avatar
elias elias is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,129
Hi

I think that a Bedini/Muller Combination would have high torque. You can use two wheels, to utilize the magnetic fields of the both ends of the coils, ie. the south and north poles simultaneously. Mine broke and I am going to reconstruct it. I was using an aluminum shaft and the neo magnets broke the shaft at high speed. I have plans for reconstructing it in the coming weeks.

Good Luck
__________________
Humility, an important property for a COP>1 system.
http://blog.hexaheart.org
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #22  
Old 10-15-2008, 07:22 AM
Joit Joit is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
I have ran a test to see what i could do with the radiant output from the bedini circuit. I took the positive from the output and connected it to the positive wire on the power coil. What happened was the amp reading suddenly dropped from .40amps to .09amps and the rotor slowed down a bit (not much at all).

Does anyone have any idea what is going on?
Just guessing,
that the fluxfields faceing now to eachother, or your 2 Coils summarize Lenz law.
And connecting a thin wire to a Thick works like a Transformator.
You could try to switch the Ends your 2nd Coil, maybe it changes back to 0,4 Amps.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-15-2008, 09:38 PM
Cyrus's Avatar
Cyrus Cyrus is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15
Send a message via AIM to Cyrus Send a message via Yahoo to Cyrus Send a message via Skype™ to Cyrus
k thanks for the input.


Ive also spent some time thinking of the relationship between magnet strength and coil cores. I'll need some confirmation on this if possible. Ive come up with a conclusion that since the bedini motor is an attraction motor. Most of the actual torque comes from the magnet attraction force on the core of the coil when the rotor rotates the magnets by the coil core. And that the pulse we push through the coil is only making a neutral effect on that magnet attraction so the rotor wont slow down. In this case will it benefit more if the magnets are stronger and the core is bigger so that the attraction force is greater and thus more torque? The power to the coil will have to also be stepped up but since it is only used to turn the attraction to neutral it wont use up much power.

Would anyone like to tell me if my conclusion is accurate?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-16-2008, 03:03 AM
Shamus's Avatar
Shamus Shamus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ur-th
Posts: 367
That certainly sounds reasonable; but there's only one way to know for sure.

Also, when the coil is pushing away the north facing magnet it's also simultaneously attracting in the scalar south, so that coil pulse isn't really a neutral effect.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-16-2008, 10:57 AM
tjnlsn255's Avatar
tjnlsn255 tjnlsn255 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 281
Smile

If you are looking for torque check out theDaftman's latest youtube video...

Is there a Newman motor thread?

Torque is a good thing but requires amps........

Todd
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

Choose your voluntary subscription

For one-time donations, please use the below button.


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers