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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #1  
Old 07-24-2008, 07:28 AM
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Self Running Bedini SG Circuits

This thread is for any Bedini SG circuits that are modified to self run....or at least attempts to self run.
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Old 07-24-2008, 07:31 AM
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Self Running Bedini SG Oscillator

Here's one:
YouTube - Self Running Bedini SG Oscillator

above link is no longer valid - youtube scrapped
all my vids...


here is an updated link:
YouTube - Self Running Bedini Oscillator
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Last edited by Aaron; 06-22-2009 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:38 PM
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semi self runner

I think you might be looking for more solid state ideas, but I'm going to go ahead and throw this up there.

Directory:Bedini SG:Self-Runner - PESWiki

On that page there are a few replications, including my link near the top that I finished a few weeks ago, my "semi" self runner. It does not last as long as I want, but long enough to prove the process is working.
There seems to be a lot going on inside the battery if you stimulate it enough with that back pulse on the correct timing.
It was explained that the back pulse, given right before the circuit fires, creates a large surge of negative energy, which then goes out into the circuit as well as recharging the primary battery.
Bearden had explained in the "Bedini back popping method" papers
here - The Tom Bearden Website
that a couple microwave engineers decided the motor was just a load, and replaced it with a bulb, and it worked.
Quite a bit going on inside those led acid batteries. I'm sure if done properly it could be solid state, specifically utilizing that overpotential capability of the led ions.
I still have some ideas I'm going to try with that wheel, and with solid state using the same idea. But time and money are not permitting right now, so it will have to wait.
But that schematic on the page works, if you build it properly and play with the timing long enough to get it, and understand it, it's good to go.
I honestly don't understand why there are not more replications showing this.
Hope you like the page.

Marcel
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:41 PM
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SG Oscillator

Aaron,

I was wondering if you might have a schematic for what youi were doing in that video. I'd like to understand the one wire thing you are talking about.
And I have seen my coils self ocscilate, but they did draw a lot more from the primary. Very interesting video I might add..
Thanks,

Marcel
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Old 07-25-2008, 04:00 AM
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self runner setup

That is one of my trifilar sg coils. 3rd wire backwards from the power/trigger. 2000 turns. Circuit is identical to roller skate wheel energizer but I have 5k+ resistance on the base.

30,000uf cap on front and same on back...back cap feeds back to front. stick ground wire (-) to the neg on output cap and I get that effect...I've done a lot of radiant "conditioning" with those caps...and am not really sure how much of a difference it makes for this application but it does make a difference in others.
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Old 07-25-2008, 09:39 AM
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That is interesting. At one time I was trying to put together an 8 strand coil with the SSG circuit that would trigger itself, self oscillating.. And I did something, I could hear it going. But there was no draw off the battery, and no charge on the charging battery. Or it was so minimal I couldn't tell.
It didn't last long and then stopped, and I couldn't reproduce the effect.
Thanks for the details, I appreciate it.

Marcel
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Old 07-25-2008, 07:23 PM
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Joule Thief

Marcel,

With that effect you got, if you slapped a magnet on top of the coil, it would probably start again.

Search for the "Joule Thief" circuit..it is in this forum somewhere. You can see another method to make the circuit oscillate no matter what.
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Old 07-26-2008, 06:06 PM
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Wow, that circuit does look like a basic ssg setup. Thats pretty cool, thanks for the post, I'm going to have to play with that one. I seem to be at a mental block with everything else anyway, this will give me something to think about.
Thanks again chief,

Marcel
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Old 07-26-2008, 07:29 PM
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Hey that is a cool little circuit. I got it up and running, and then I took 3 of the water fuel cells, had them in separate water containers, hooked them up in series and the little circuit still runs. Very dim, almost can't see it with the lights on, but it's going.. I think I was getting about 2 volts off those cells, or close to it. I think I'm going to end up messing with earth cells in the near future. There seems to be a lot of ways to get a little energy, i.e. the conditioned water fuel cell standing potential. There has to be a simple way to use this to either amplify it, or to shake more out.
More to think about.
Again, thanks for the pointer there, that was a good post.

Marcel
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Old 07-26-2008, 08:00 PM
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using lv potential

I think chopping those low voltage potentials very fast into a coil and take the spikes to charge a cap to higher voltage might be doable. Those caps at high enough could then be pulsed to a battery when high enough.

Of course whatever is chopping it will probably take power but if the concept can just be proven...all the rest is details.
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Old 03-06-2009, 01:26 PM
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I'm not sure why this thread died out. But i am attempting a self runner myself and i am curious if anybody has tried constant charging of the input battery and pulsing to a cap bank to run the motor. Theoretically this seems to me to be the better option because gel cells prefer constant charging. I'm not overly concerned with what happens to my input battery because it was a freebie that i am reconditioning, as long as any damage only happens to the battery.

Some body posted in the big joule thief thread a simple flasher circuit that could be used to charge the caps for the motor.

Any inputs are appreciated.
Matt.
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Old 03-06-2009, 01:45 PM
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Hi Matt
A some years ago I tried this selfrunning circuit:



It is basically a standard Bedini SSG circuit but with a recovery coil connected. The recovery coil stays open all the time per revolution excpet this one moment where the neo magnet triggers the reedswitch, this in turn turns the relay on and the relay disconnects the SSG circuit from the primary battery and connects the primary battery to the recovery coil, so that the recovery coil discharges into the primary battery. The recovery coil should have many windings so that it can produce at least 30V across bridge rectifier when put near the spinning magnets of SSG. The more the better. Then, if you leave the coil open and connect it to the battery only at correct timing, you will get HV across the coil around up to 2000V. If you do this switching right, there will be no additional drag on the wheel and the primary battery wont lose its charge or might even charge up. I did not try to recover the energy from the secondary battery, if all that recovered energy would also be transfered to the primary battery, then the results could be much better. The think is that the battery does not like to be charged and discharged constantly at high rates and it eventually dies. But since you have nothing to lose, you can try it My experiment was very crude, a better switching could be used for better results.
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Old 03-06-2009, 02:31 PM
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Sounds good Jetijs. I guess the only thing after that is keeping the battery in condition some how. After all bedini has some thats been running for years now on the same batteries.

Thanks

Edit:I know that you have to rest the batteries between charging and discharging. And for most batteries you have to cycle them or risk losing capacity. But from what I understand from what aaron said about his self runner and gel cells is that over time the gell dried out. What I don't know about the people that have done self runners is if they cycled their primary batteries and let the motor charge them back up or if they just let them run flat out. And what kind of batteries were they using?
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Old 03-06-2009, 07:51 PM
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self runner

Redeagle,

I've gotten around the battery problem by using caps because they don't care if you're charging them and powering a load from them at the same time.
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:59 PM
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Commutator battery capacitor

When I was at ren's place he said he made a Commutator on his bedini that caused a capacitor to load up between firings of the coil: then would disconnect the cap from the battery and to the coil to fire.

I'll be doing something similar with my veljko oscillator
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Old 03-06-2009, 11:19 PM
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Yeah the capacitive discharge was an interesting experiment. Put quite simply, the battery is never directly connected to the coil....ever. This is similar in principle to Bedini's U.S. Patent 6,677,730 issued January 13, 2004 for a "Device and Method for Pulse Charging a Battery and for Driving Other Devices with a Pulse".

I will be doing some more when I get a better commutator built.

BTW Ben, hows your back?
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Last edited by ren; 03-06-2009 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 03-06-2009, 11:48 PM
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I'm back! I'm back!

Ouch, my back! My back!

my back is a little better - painwise - but I believe pinched nerve is responsible for almost unbearable pain in my leg, accompanied by numbness. Weird.

Seeing a neurologist and getting ct scan nxt week.

Tnx for asking!

Ps I'm off work till 20th so pretty much any time you want to drop round, feel free.

Jaycar has metal layered plastic wheels next to the plastic screws that will probably make a great Commutator.

When I was working on my high speed mechanical switch, I put electrical tape on the bits I wanted 'on' and superglued the gaps. When the glue dried, I removed the tape and viola.

Never tested it though.

Ps ren if you do drop round don't forget the bedini video :-)
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:24 PM
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Hi Ren

I am very interest in the "Device and Method for Pulse Charging a Battery and for Driving Other Devices with a Pulse" I've had the schematic for a while and have been thinking about building the circuit to see what happens when you connect it to and ordinary dc motor. Have you built this circuit and if so what did you observe?
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:45 PM
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I havent built it yet. Fets arent my favorite thing to work with. I used a similar principle but with commutation. Not many people are aware of that patent, let alone attempt to build it.
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ren View Post
I havent built it yet. Fets arent my favorite thing to work with. I used a similar principle but with commutation. Not many people are aware of that patent, let alone attempt to build it.
What's the best way to attach the bicycle wheel to a pulley, try to attach it to the spokes or replace te bearings so the wheel is fixed to a rotating shaft?

i figure it has to be done to power a load anyway so i am trying to figure it out.
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:52 AM
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Bicycle wheel

Use the back wheel, and make your pulley the pedal cog.

Edit: I just realised you want the bicycle wheel to drive the pulley. For that you would have to fix / weld the wheel cog in place so the wheel doesn't free spin.

If you're working with a front wheel, I'd put it on an axle.
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:22 PM
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That's what i was thinking i was gonna have to do. I have a set of bearings that i can use but i may end up haveing to put a bushing on the axle to make it snug on the wheel. Won't know till I get the axle and bearings out of the wheel.
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:13 AM
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self runner idear

ok i would like to make my moter self run
a fue thoughts
first it is designed to recharge the seckond battery so if you continually swap the batteries around it should run or self run
now as i see it one pulse from one thence from the other
i am using a bike wheal turning slowley so using a reed i can get a signell for every magnet
this signell can be used in a flip flop sr to change the batteries back and forth every firing
now if you substute the batteries for caps charg the caps start moter do you have a self runner
you could incorperate the earlier scematic of jetijs to grab some of the torque to also feed the system
i have a circuit for the flip flop but have to work out how to post it and i also need to change values of components some help? also i dont know how to put the little quote at the bottom of posts
has any one tried this?????
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Old 03-12-2009, 12:55 AM
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another thought

if you put two coils onto one motor with 2 circuits so 2 moters one charging the drive battery of the otherand running off the others charge ing battery allyou need is to be out of phase from one another and isolate eahh other your frictional losses should be halved and driving current reduced too
i guess you could build a polly phase moter
any circuit idears to isolate moters???
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Old 03-12-2009, 02:55 AM
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Ideas

@ ray stewart - If you're wanting a self runner, go for capacitors, as they accept the radiant event (voltage spike) better than batteries. You will have to condition the caps many times, they become more efficient.

See dmonarch's radiant matter thread for info on why.

/ I would have thought a quick turning wheel would be better - quicker coil core magnetic field collapse = bigger voltage (radiant) spike.

As for collecting torque with pulley wheel of axle, a generator is less effective at producing electricity? I think. Any load will drive up the amperage to spin your wheel.

Maybe find balance between drive coil and collector coils.

See my video here:

YouTube - lenzless bedini motor - no transistors

Good luck! I hope others here answer some of your other queries or point you in the right direction.

Reading the posts on this site is the best source of information on the web. Often when I google my queries, I get links to energeticforum.com, and often I see the questions I posted here.

Take care
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:35 AM
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self runner idear

i found that the faster the wheal spiins the more power "watts" it draws and although the return current increases there is a point that "at about 90 rpm" the return power "watts" appears to exceed the input "watts" any whear from 125% up to200% i thought
the slower the rpm the less friction in bearings etc this can be demonstrated by measured by the drop of100 rpm over time from a high say 1000 rpm to 900 rpm
compaired to the time it takes to go from 100rpm to stop
so l lthough my elictrical spike may not be as big as it could but i have less losses from friction and way less power draw
i want to alter the least number of things possible before reaching out so first batteries and measuring before and after power
i would also like to see how much sedement they produce as this may explain away the "radiant" idea
i am not a chemist but will be looking into it
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Old 03-12-2009, 05:04 AM
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Extra pickup coils on a bedini

Ok, so there's the drive coil in a bedini system, and the radiant event at coil collapse is sent off to a charge battery.

While debating how to harvest additional energy from a bedini wheel, I've realised that one end of the coil connected to earth or source battery negative, the other to a neon to charge battery positive (with charge battery having grounded negative is better) will also only harvest the radiant event; no back EMF, no Lenz's drag. No current until magnetic field collapses and generates the spike, which jumps thru the neon and is put in the battery.

There's still magnetic drag from the core, but could be minimized by using hollow tubes as a core.

No need to get correct timing with reed switches etc......
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:43 AM
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hollow tubes

do you mean air core
i am using soft
iron laminates as much of the core filled as possible
i just couldn't bring myself to using welding rods they become permanant magnets very quickly
causing magnetic drag?
have you done away with the 007 diode?
have you done away with the conection between the charge and drive + battery altogether?
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Old 03-12-2009, 09:27 AM
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Ray the correct welding rods do not do this. Transformer laminations would be great too if sourceable as long as the core doesnt envelope the coil.

And Ben I have found that the "spike" is greatly enhanced by timing, especially in cases where currents are induced into the coil by passing magnets. Put simply, there is a right time to fire where everything will be optimised and your spike will be of its highest value.
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Old 03-12-2009, 09:53 AM
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Ren and ray

re timing ; what if the coil's magnetic field collapses after the magnet has passed quickly enough, (to be honest I haven't done this yet - working with a pendulum so the magnet is at a standstill when I fire the coil) it will be a little like as if the core was magnetised by the coil acting like an electromagnet.

That bit is theory.

Experiment has proven that an energized coil (magnetic field) connected on one end to source negative will, if the power sustaining that magnetic field is abruptly removed (in bedini system this is removing the battery positive and there is no current, just magnetic field. In theory the same thing is happening with an abruptly collapsing core magnetic field with battery neg or ground connection and a neon. No current, rapidly collapsing magnetic field.) anyhoo, the voltage (radiant event / inrush of aether) causes a spike of pure-ish voltage.

Experiment has shown me that yes the inrushing aether will supply current from a no current state in a coil and will jump a neon to a place of lower potential.

and yes, the battery will charge if not connected to source battery but it will be fluffy and won't run a load.

This is because it is aether inrush. Like two waves meeting together that kick up a huge splash, the inrush seeking to fill the void left by the magnetic field (which was holding the aether inflow at bay? Like a high pressure system that pushes away low pressure systems in weather just disappearing, all the low pressure would rush in..

So the aether that jumps the neon into the battery is different to normal charge. Normal charge sucks electrons out of the battery positive.

Radiant charge places a condition of vacuum-ness into the actual battery.

So that won't run a load, but it will cause electrons to be sucked up from an actual ground.

Viola, the charge will be more able to bear a load.

I've lost track of myself. Hope it makes sense.

Oh yeah, I don't use a diode. Just neon and ground. Haven't yet done extensive testing; the above just came to me in last two days.
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Last edited by Inquorate; 03-12-2009 at 10:00 AM. Reason: Said pos when I meant neg
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