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  #1  
Old 07-01-2008, 12:41 PM
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MUST SEE ! John Bedini with showing the crystals on the plates

This is what I have been looking for.....

BatteryForming_2008_04_25_16_16_47.wmv

A clear understanding of what is happening in the batteries..
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  #2  
Old 07-01-2008, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theremart View Post
This is what I have been looking for.....

BatteryForming_2008_04_25_16_16_47.wmv

A clear understanding of what is happening in the batteries..
good movie ,you bring it once again big guy ,thank you for the link .
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Old 07-01-2008, 04:08 PM
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Great vid.

So was the charger he was using for the bottle lead alkaline cell a normal charger or one of JB's radiant ones? Because he mentioned that the battery was outputting more each time it was charged.
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Old 07-01-2008, 04:31 PM
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RE watching

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Originally Posted by dambit View Post
Great vid.

So was the charger he was using for the bottle lead alkaline cell a normal charger or one of JB's radiant ones? Because he mentioned that the battery was outputting more each time it was charged.

Ehh you missed it... what he did was swap out the electrolyte to alum ( the stuff you use to can pickles ) which as I have found out there are several formulations of.... Anyhow he swapped out the sulfuric acid to alum and was demonstrating that it could hold a charge and give energy.


Some observations about this...

There is a chemical change in the battery with the type of charge used, note the DC charge verses the radiant charge.

I am trying to understand when he says he charges for 1 minute then can get 3 minutes out what is he trying to demonstrate..... I am going to watch again to see how much energy he is putting in verses the draw of the light bulb to try to understand....

There is alot to chew on in the video well worth taking notes on.

Mart
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  #5  
Old 07-01-2008, 06:05 PM
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Is alum the same thing they use in sand filters for pools?
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Old 07-01-2008, 06:14 PM
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alum

A nice trick with alum is to get your friend to put some in their mouth. I tried that as a kid...makes your mouth pucker.
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Old 07-01-2008, 06:52 PM
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RE: Alum

I have found ALUM it is ground up partly Aluminum from what I have read. I would not be putting this in my mouth as there have been studies of this causing Alzheimer's... ( metal toxicity )

The recipies that I have read of this used in pickles have you wash this off after you process the pickles...


Alum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I had a VERY hard time finding it in the store, until I found out it is considered a "Spice" I found it at Walmart and Krogers very expensive. I did order some from a photo place and tried it, my mistake was not to clean out the battery enough with baking soda before I used the Alum. It does work, it is just with my experience I got greater voltage with the surfuric acid. I may not of done it quite right.... But we have a forum here of the adventures with Alum "Making batteries safer"
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Last edited by theremart; 07-01-2008 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:04 PM
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alum use

Alum is starting to be used for pickling and other stuff less and less in the US.

I was going to say something else about it but I forgot what it was!
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:17 PM
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New info on Alum..

I am part of a group that converts batteries. The link below is the best price I have seen and.... Below is results the guy had with this source...


Canning & Pickling - AmericanSpice.com

"i am very happy to report that my 6 volt deep cycle that is about 12
years old and has been sitting on my celler floor for 2 years is
working like new with the mix of alum 1oz to 10 oz of water after many
flushes of baking soda and water for a week till it was clean charged
for 24 hours and took 20 hours to drain with a 24 volt motor let it sit
for an hour and tested it and it still had powert so it went back on
the charger for 24 hours amazing it works better than new now i need 7
more 6 volt batts to do them up and put them in my electric car"
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:49 PM
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I guess to go along the battery conversion and alum a mandatory link is: Sepp Hasslberger: How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery

I'm sure it has been posted elsewhere but might as well have it here, since it relates to the subject matter.
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Old 07-01-2008, 08:52 PM
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I found the information that you need real lead plates and no paste to get the maximum efficiency out of the battery very helpful.
Thanks
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Old 07-01-2008, 09:12 PM
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RE: light test..

Battery dead then charged with power supply....

3.1 V 2.7 Amps 8.37 W 1 min.

3 V light load..

Well I watched it again... if I am reading right I am not very impressed with the " 1 minute in, 1 minute out " as he was putting in over 8.37W of power into the cell for 1 min. The light bulb was a 3V flashlight bulb thus was only pulling much less than 8.37 W of power so was not an exact match of load verses what he was pulling out if I am looking at this right.....

Still, I really liked to see what my target is, that conditioned battery is what i am aiming for.... in the conditioning of my batteries.
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:37 PM
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Anybody ever rebuild batteries? Anybody ever heard of that?
A few years ago there was this guy and he worked for the local FS or something. He would rebuild batteries. I know of people who bought them and said they worked fine. He would sell them to farmers, landscapers, snow plow guys and pretty much anybody who was seasonal. He would always take the core.
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Old 07-02-2008, 04:50 AM
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I found it very interesting the difference in the crystals between the normal and radiant charge. I guess the smaller crystals allow a greater number of them to form on the plate therefore providing an even greater surface area. Maybe that is the reason radiant charged batteries have greater output once they are conditioned.

P.S for those that are loking for lead sheet, just nick it from building sites. They always have leftovers from the flashing on the roof and windows.
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  #15  
Old 07-02-2008, 06:21 AM
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Alum battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by theremart View Post
Ehh you missed it... what he did was swap out the electrolyte to alum ( the stuff you use to can pickles ) which as I have found out there are several formulations of.... Anyhow he swapped out the sulfuric acid to alum and was demonstrating that it could hold a charge and give energy.


Some observations about this...

There is a chemical change in the battery with the type of charge used, note the DC charge verses the radiant charge.

I am trying to understand when he says he charges for 1 minute then can get 3 minutes out what is he trying to demonstrate..... I am going to watch again to see how much energy he is putting in verses the draw of the light bulb to try to understand....

There is alot to chew on in the video well worth taking notes on.

Mart
Hey great I have been wtanting to make up some alum batteries and chrage them up with a SSG to see what happen.s have you done that already?
I was thinking it might be better to condition the battery first to get rid of all sulfate buildup and then to the alum replacement. Are you willing to slhare your formulas. the only one I know is 4 Ozs of alum to a gallon or somethnig like that.
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Old 07-02-2008, 06:32 AM
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probably not efficiency but proving concept

The 1 min in 1 min out concept is not a real test in my opinion of true efficiency and I doubt that this is what John is showing.

What it is meant to show I believe is that simply, that battery is become more of a battery with each charge/discharge cycle and that the whole homemade alum battery concept just plain works.
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:31 AM
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RE: 1 min in verses out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
The 1 min in 1 min out concept is not a real test in my opinion of true efficiency and I doubt that this is what John is showing.

What it is meant to show I believe is that simply, that battery is become more of a battery with each charge/discharge cycle and that the whole homemade alum battery concept just plain works.
I agree Aaron...

But the way to charge these was very valuable, low amps..... It seems the right way to charge a battery is like working out in the gym, you push the muscles, but you dont break the muscles, over time you get stronger and so does the battery.
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:25 PM
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Hi All

I hope this is not a stupid question. Chemistry is not my thing. In my mind, an alkaline solution is the opposite of an acid solution. So, after converting the battery, does the positive electrode still remain positive? I am going to assume yes, since there are no warnings about this in what I've read. I would think it would reverse, but I guess not?

Tishatang
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:43 PM
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RE: question.

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Originally Posted by Tishatang View Post
Hi All

I hope this is not a stupid question. Chemistry is not my thing. In my mind, an alkaline solution is the opposite of an acid solution. So, after converting the battery, does the positive electrode still remain positive? I am going to assume yes, since there are no warnings about this in what I've read. I would think it would reverse, but I guess not?

Tishatang
Good question...

When i put alum in my battery the charge remained the same.

What really impressed me is after I removed all the electrolyte, there was still 10V charge in the battery after that, and I could light a light bulb with it for a short time.

If you watch Bedinis' video again you will see what is key is the coating on the plates. That coating which is formed after a time seems to determine if a terminal is positive or negative. I have found this to be true with other electrolysis experiments I have done, there seems to be a 'polarization' of the plates being chemical bonds happen that tend one plate to become more positive or one to become more negative, when current flows thru it.

Bedini says, about the terminals that they have already been conditioned when they are put in the alum... Yes they have been with the previous work that he did in the sulfuric acid, and you can see the different coatings of the plates.
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Old 07-02-2008, 01:03 PM
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theremart

Polarity seems to remain unchanged for all batteries, not just RE conditioned ones. I read all the feedback at the bottom of the link Amigo posted here:

Sepp Hasslberger: How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery

No one said anything about a pole reversal.

Chris
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Old 07-02-2008, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tishatang View Post
theremart

Polarity seems to remain unchanged for all batteries, not just RE conditioned ones. I read all the feedback at the bottom of the link Amigo posted here:

Sepp Hasslberger: How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery

No one said anything about a pole reversal.

Chris
Ok, kool... that is a good article... much you can learn there.
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Old 07-05-2008, 08:23 PM
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Thinking out loud...

I was wondering if on was to create a battery like Johns test lead batteries, if one was to hook up Peter's motor to it would it do the same to the battery? The scope shots I have of my motor show more of an AC typ output rather than a dc type.

I was wondering about the construction of the batteries as well, there seem to be plastic in a circle tied together with rubber bands, I wonder how that is configured..

Also, how long did it take to get the coating as he had, and if you had two in series would it coat at the same rate...
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Old 07-05-2008, 09:18 PM
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Hey Mart I was surfing through those links posted above and I came across this.




Check out what these guys are doing. It sounds like Alum to me. They have small to large batteries ready to go it seems.
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Old 07-06-2008, 01:18 AM
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Re: other batteries.

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Originally Posted by ren View Post
Hey Mart I was surfing through those links posted above and I came across this.




Check out what these guys are doing. It sounds like Alum to me. They have small to large batteries ready to go it seems.

on the brand new electrolyte of liquid low sodium silicate compound,

Sounds like salt, and sand... interesting...

I had a friend tell me durring the war when they invade Japan, they found a battery that would not go dead. It just ran and ran and ran....

I do think other countries will run far ahead of the US, because we have focus on profit margins, and not research and development. At least that which we are ready to release to the masses
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  #25  
Old 12-29-2013, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theremart View Post
This is what I have been looking for.....

BatteryForming_2008_04_25_16_16_47.wmv

A clear understanding of what is happening in the batteries..
Hi
the link is not working can you give me an other one.
Thanks
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Old 12-30-2013, 02:42 AM
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BatteryForming_2008_04_25_16_16_47.wmv - YouTube

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Hi
the link is not working can you give me an other one.
Thanks
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:01 PM
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Battery Tip for everyone!

I've got a tip for everyone out there making home-made batteries....

The more surface area you have, the better your results will be. At the very least, take some 220 grit or 150 grit sandpaper and crosshatch the metal plates/tubes/rods. Once I get my hands on some magnesium that is large enough, I'm going to take my dremel and cut some grooves in it as well. It should boost the output quite a lot. I thought about using several smaller rods, but I don't think it will have the same effect considering they will not be one piece, but many seperate ones that will grow layers between them.

Also, pressure helps a whole lot, but you already know that.... However, to keep the pressure up, I'm thinking about soldering on copper caps while I have the cell under pressure in the press. Not sure if this is that great of an idea though, considering I'm going to need to drill a hole in the top one, and also insulate it from everything else. Maybe a polyurethane or maybe a silicon coating? Of course this will have to be a cell that does not require any additional moisture than what it will contain in the beginning, so it's going to have to be a long-term experiment to see how it holds up, and what effect different moisture levels have over time.

Again, I'm quite new to all of this, so maybe this has already been done and I just haven't found the thread for it yet.... and maybe I'm completely off base and my idea will fail miserably.....
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