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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #151  
Old 11-25-2010, 10:21 AM
Bhargav Bhargav is offline
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Circuit heats a lot with halls

Hey Ren,
YEAH ... that would be so cool !!! The circuit is heating up a lot when i try to run with halls .Busted the 470 ohm resistor on the MJL21193.
It felt so easy to stop the shaft with my hand whereas with the trigger coil methd , i had much more torque ... Just am going to test out Patrick's suggestion of learning Hall switching ... Hope things get better with that...

How about placement of Neo's around the rotor ? Did you research on that topic anytime ?? I have tried out the load on trigger coil method and was unable to get even 1 hp . Something is amiss , Rick's neodymium rotor lawnmover could move a lot of weight around ... More to learn , more to learn

Please do a writeup with your progress when possible , would be a great to learn from your experience with that big motor you got

Bhargav
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  #152  
Old 11-25-2010, 02:25 PM
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Circuit heats a lot with halls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhargav View Post
Hey Ren,
YEAH ... that would be so cool !!! The circuit is heating up a lot when i try to run with halls .Busted the 470 ohm resistor on the MJL21193.
It felt so easy to stop the shaft with my hand whereas with the trigger coil methd , i had much more torque ... Just am going to test out Patrick's suggestion of learning Hall switching ... Hope things get better with that...

How about placement of Neo's around the rotor ? Did you research on that topic anytime ?? I have tried out the load on trigger coil method and was unable to get even 1 hp . Something is amiss , Rick's neodymium rotor lawnmover could move a lot of weight around ... More to learn , more to learn

Please do a writeup with your progress when possible , would be a great to learn from your experience with that big motor you got

Bhargav
if your ckt heats, then you have something hooked up wrong. did you play w/ the halls and LEDs and pnp vs npn....?
can you light them on command w/ bright and low intensity?
if you can do all this as I noted in an earlier post, then placement of the halls in the Bedini Cole ckt should be second nature.
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  #153  
Old 11-25-2010, 03:44 PM
Zooty Zooty is offline
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Rick Friedrich made a nice window motor SSG style using the basic SSG circuit and wheel but with strong neodymium magnets. It charges a second battery SSG style BUT it also keeps the primary topped up without any feedback to source circuitry! Just the normal SSG circuit.

Directory:Bedini SG:Self-runner:Window - PESWiki
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  #154  
Old 11-25-2010, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooty View Post
Rick Friedrich made a nice window motor SSG style using the basic SSG circuit and wheel but with strong neodymium magnets. It charges a second battery SSG style BUT it also keeps the primary topped up without any feedback to source circuitry! Just the normal SSG circuit.

Directory:Bedini SG:Self-runner:Window - PESWiki
yes, that is what we were doing here
YouTube - min2oly's Channel
before the magnet launching party
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  #155  
Old 11-25-2010, 05:49 PM
Zooty Zooty is offline
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Nice setup Minoly Have you tried dumping the caps to the primary? Whats the voltage and current draw on your setup?
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  #156  
Old 12-03-2010, 02:19 AM
Bhargav Bhargav is offline
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Progress

Yuppiers.... Thanks Patrick , Got the basics right and circuit running with a nice hall switch speed control .

Here goes my experiment result :

12V input , two hall switches , no circuit heating up if the spacing between trigger magnets is higher . The circuit will heatup if the spacing between trigger magnets is made lesser ( ie more circuit on time ).Using only one power coil of 100 turns 23 gauge . Very little torque as motor can be stopped by hand easily.

Speed is higher with wider magnet trigger spacing (less number of triggers/ per revolution ). Torque seems to increase a bit as number of trigger/rev is increased but only uptil a point (the trade off is heat in circuit ) .


For the problems :

1) I put in a single coil of 400 turns 23 gauge and the speed of motor was very low when compared to 4 individual coils of 100 turns . Looks like resisitance of coil is a major issue . If i try to add more coils in parallel , speed decreases!!! This is wierd and i cant understand how Rick had a monstrous 4" thick coil on the lawn mover . How do i put in more Coils ???

2) The motor runs best when i squeeze the thickness of power coil . Certainly looks like thickness of the power coil has an appreciable effect on speed . Again cant understand how/why rick setup a huge power coil instead of smaller power coils ...

If Ren / Bits / Patrick have been this road , do let me know a few pointers for improvement ...



Bhargav
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  #157  
Old 12-04-2010, 06:20 AM
Bhargav Bhargav is offline
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Basic questions again !!!

I guess the right questions are still the basic questions :

How does the thickness of wire and number of windings effect performance of motor? Lets assume we are running on one full bi polar circuit( hall switching ) and 12V...

My results are in the earlier post ...

Bhargav
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  #158  
Old 12-23-2010, 11:09 AM
Bhargav Bhargav is offline
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reply from Dadhav

With no activity on the thread , i posted the question to Dadhav who has done some wonderful replications on youtube .
Here is a reply from Dadhav about the power coils :

Hello, I read the comments on the link you gave me. I can only make a few points based on my experience with airplane motors and some with the window motor. I would expect the RPM to go down as you add more turns to the coil. In an aero motor this is the way you change the KV. The lower the KV or rpm the stronger the torque. This is why an outrunner motor like on my channel can swing a large diameter propeller without a gear box. Now the most ideal thing when designing an R/C motor is to keep the resistance of the coils on the stator as low as possible. Sometimes I use many as 20 wires wound simultaneously to get as much copper on as possible. Granted, I may only use 10 turns per leg on the stator of an aero motor but the principle probably applies to the window motor as well. So I would predict the more turns you add to the window motor the lower your RPM's or KV will be. Your torque should go up respectively but you are in a toss up situation based on the resistance you add with the length of wire. So also, your efficiency will go up with as many parallel coils you can add. Note: parallel not series. If you don't bring the resistance down by using multiple strands of the power coil or a heavy wire, you will need to increase the voltage running the motor to get the results you want. I have been winding my aero motors with more turns and using 4 lithium polymer batteries instead of 3. This is giving me more power and efficiency.
If you find this to be useful, you're welcome to copy it to your forum page.
Good luck and keep me up to date with your progress.
John H


Well i have tried a lot of adaptations with the bedini-cole circuit and just cant seem to figure out how to generate torque from the Window motor kit B. Sure the motor screams itself to 3500 rpm with 48 V and almost 5 amps draw. But as soon as i load the motor with a 3KW 1500 rpm alternator , the setup just goes to about 500 rpm . Have tried to put in 3 circuits with hall output trigger in parallel - not much luck there too ... Have tried all the resistor values where the 220 ohm resistor is there with not much improvement in terms of torque ...

Iam running out of ideas for this system and find it so difficult to understand how rick had such a fat power coil do a lot of work at the convention ...

Will post if i make any further progress ...
Bhargav
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  #159  
Old 01-07-2011, 08:09 AM
Bhargav Bhargav is offline
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Video update on 14 dec

Thanks to Patrick , Ren and Dadhav ... video update on the progress i had done and written about in my earlier posts .
But havent been able to move on to make a nice useful motor like the one Rick showcased . Seems like i have hit a deadend until something else strikes me to improve the torque on the system .

Link: " YouTube - 14122010029 "
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  #160  
Old 01-22-2011, 11:31 AM
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window B kit

Hi Bhargav,
thought of you, John Bedini just posted this:
YouTube - Bedini-Cole 1971 to 1984 built from lab notes
on the energenix chanel at youtube. thought it might have some value.
Patrick
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  #161  
Old 04-06-2011, 11:45 PM
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Thumbs up

This is an awsome video......

Thank you JB!

Questions.... is the power that is being feed back to the primary battery being pulsed in any way other than the on/off timing of the coils themselves?

Why two sensors and only three sensor magnets?

Looks like at least 6 window coils... are they in parallel? It looks like they are all tied together .....

What does "longer run time" mean.....;-)

I hope this video stays up for a long time.....LOL

Hopes and Dreams.....

Todd
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  #162  
Old 04-07-2011, 03:22 PM
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Questions

Hi Todd

The window motor in the video has 6 magnets on the rotor. They are arranged N-S-N-S-N-S. There are 3 sensor magnets so they can fire the coils every 60 degrees with the opposite polarity. One hall switch turns the coils on with one polarity and then 60 degrees later a magnet turns the other hall switch on to turn on the coils with the opposite polarity.

And yes the coils are all connected in parallel.

No the power going back to the battery is not being pulsed as far as I can tell from John's description.

Longer run time means the battery is going to last longer because it is being recharged as it is powering the motor.

I hope this helps a little.

Carroll
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  #163  
Old 04-08-2011, 10:06 AM
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Smile

Thank you Carroll for the explanation.

So if I am going to use the 1/2 circuit and a trigger coil, then I just need one trigger coil, right?

Hopes and dreams....

Todd
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  #164  
Old 04-08-2011, 10:52 AM
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Hi Todd,

Yes if you are going to use half the circuit like you would for a monopole then you only need one trigger winding. That is the way I had mine for my SSG for a while. Then I changed it to a hall effect so I could play around with the timing some and vary from the fixed timing of the trigger winding. Still experimenting with the hall setup. I am looking for the best timing and length of pulse for the best charging.

C ya, Carroll
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  #165  
Old 04-14-2011, 06:55 AM
Bhargav Bhargav is offline
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Alternate transistor to up the voltage

Hey Patrick,
Things do look interesting with the video link you had posted. I did read a bit on making magnet coils and it does seem Newman , Gray etc all used lots of turns .

I did make a thick coil with #24 wire with 20 parallel coils . Ran it with the full bipolar circuit . The torque wasnt too good in comparision to a single thick wire of 100 turns( #17 wire ) but the speed was quite up there ... Almost went 150% more than the single thick wire . Speed was close to 4200 rpm on Window motor kit B. Problem is i could get the coil to run only on one occasion after which it doesnt seem to work . It appears as though the positioning of the coil is critical . Iam going to give it a shot with a new coil as iam not happy with the winding on my first attempt.

Do you have any suggestion on alternate transistors and resistor values to let us increase the input voltage ? I hope you do follow Dadhav's youtube channel . He has a lot of interesting things going on with the window motor . Includes his work on Mg battery similar to the work you are doing ...

Have fun,
Bhargav
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  #166  
Old 04-15-2011, 02:29 PM
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Hi Bhargav,
How long were each of the 24 gauge wires you used? Ohms of each?
Were they the same 100 turns?
The MJL’s should be enough. Have you scoped out the coil as you change resistances?

If not, or for anyone else: Try placing a dual pot on the base / emitter of the 93 and 94 put a base resistor on each of at least 220 (so you don’t hit 0 and burn the transistors) this will allow you to change the value of each simultaneously – so when you scope it out you can see the relationship between changing the bases vs changing the mpsa06/93 resistance vs trigger resistance. All three of these need to be adjusted when tuning. Make sure you have high watt pots and resistors if you want the most amount of juice possible. You can also parallel resistors and pots to increase watt value.

I finally purchased more ceramics for our B-kit, but we’ve been very busy on other projects – only so much free time in a day.

did you catch our double short vid for recovery off a pickup coil on the B Kit.

Thanks for sharing,

Patrick
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  #167  
Old 04-18-2011, 05:51 AM
Bhargav Bhargav is offline
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Double shorting video

Hey Patrick,
Just saw the double shorting video . Did not completely understand the significance . Could you explain a little more as to what is happening and how you plan to harvest the increase in voltage .

Shorting has become a new field of interest especially after Ismael Aviso's coil shorting energy videos ...

Will measure and put pictures regarding the 20 wire coil soon.

Thanks for your continued interest,
Bhargav
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  #168  
Old 04-18-2011, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhargav View Post
Hey Patrick,
Just saw the double shorting video . Did not completely understand the significance . Could you explain a little more as to what is happening and how you plan to harvest the increase in voltage .

Shorting has become a new field of interest especially after Ismael Aviso's coil shorting energy videos ...

Will measure and put pictures regarding the 20 wire coil soon.

Thanks for your continued interest,
Bhargav
Hi Bhargav,
Thanks for noticing and asking about my convoluted video
I don't think I've seen any of the others you are talking about, but people have been doing this for ages, At least 120 years to my knowledge. Not the double short, however, the double short just takes it a step further. I came up w/ this while working and thinking on JB’s stuff quite some time ago. If I'm wrong - like that's ever happened I would love for someone to share any other work on it.

Normally one will have a generator coil and a magnet, have them pass by each other at a quick rate, then at the precise moment short the coil briefly. This causes a large increase in potential across the coil, which is sent through a rectifier and on to as little impedance as possible to soak it up. So you get the regular “electrons” and an additional surge from the magnet pass.

However, there is still a certain amount of “Lenz” happening. The double short, removes some of that “Lenz”. Only one lead is connected to the rectifier, so when the magnet passes, the coil is allowed to build up capacitance, then at the precise moment you connect the lead to the rectifier and you short the coil as well, sending a much larger surge through the rectifier w/ even less “Lenz”

Did you see happen to see Bolt’s amplified SSG short? YouTube - Pulse motor and Bolt's Amplified SSG short
You get to control the amplitude and the trigger much more precisely than w/ a reed or anything else I’ve seen. The vote is still out on which produces more energy, this or the double short. We send both of these charges to a cap, or you can light stuff or cap dump to charge batteries. An actual physical short is the only thing that might produce more energy, however, we cannot find any precise contacts that can take the pressure for very long.

Patrick
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  #169  
Old 04-18-2011, 11:07 PM
Zooty Zooty is offline
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This may help with reducing lenz's law and also increasing usable output. It's a two stage process and it makes sense when you consider that a low impedance such as an empty cap is better for capturing this high voltage spike.



Shorting coils circuits - AlternativeWorld Energy
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  #170  
Old 04-18-2011, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooty View Post
This may help with reducing lenz's law and also increasing usable output. It's a two stage process and it makes sense when you consider that a low impedance such as an empty cap is better for capturing this high voltage spike.



Shorting coils circuits - AlternativeWorld Energy
yup, that's the double short we've been doing for over a year now, works like a charm especially in conjunction w/ JB's windowmotor - we put sw2 before the FWBR. when did you come up with that, maybe I just thought I thought it up

Bolt’s amplified SSG short put's out the same and quite possibly more juice than this however. the control is better for so many reasons, and no messy switches.

we never used the AC series cap, what does that do? are you turning that into a series RLC of sorts?

Patrick
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  #171  
Old 04-19-2011, 09:09 AM
Zooty Zooty is offline
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This is not my design, i got it from the link below the image but i did post stage one on here over a year ago before i knew about this. I thought this is what Bedini was doing in his 1984 free energy generator.

Quote:
Note the AC series cap in circuit - this will make it so the rotor will not slow or brake from lenz-law lugging during the filling of DC cap, and also during the discharge of DC cap to load.
A description of the purpose and function of this AC series cap is that it works like a "high bypass filter" - letting the high frequencies to pass right through, and charge cap, while blocking-out the lower end frequencies which will work to lug primary to higher amps draw.
Values of caps and ressitive load in this circuit are only examples of a particular model - experiments to find best AC cap, DC cap, load, rpms of rotor with mangets, coil size. pulse rates etc etc etc will be needed for particular applications and power outputs vs power inputs.
Maybe we could convert Bolt's circuit to use a couple of high power fets with low on resistance as i have read this will be closer to a mechanical switch than a bipolar transistor. We could also replace the trigger coil in the collection circuit to a hall switch and place it in line with the coil to remove the need for perfectly spaced magnets.
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  #172  
Old 04-19-2011, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooty View Post
This is not my design, i got it from the link below the image but i did post stage one on here over a year ago before i knew about this. I thought this is what Bedini was doing in his 1984 free energy generator.



Maybe we could convert Bolt's circuit to use a couple of high power fets with low on resistance as i have read this will be closer to a mechanical switch than a bipolar transistor. We could also replace the trigger coil in the collection circuit to a hall switch and place it in line with the coil to remove the need for perfectly spaced magnets.
I like the High power fet idea, any suggestions on which ones to start with?
we've been using the MPSao6 to accomplish the "double short" it's beautifull we are working w/ small coils and the spike is only 400 volts, this is going to get crazy when scaled up.

I like hall's, we use them on the main SSG, control is much better than coil. for this method and w/ a single small coil we've been using an aircore coil to trigger, we've also had good charging and switching w/ a 3 rod core - stacked flat for less on time. frankly the magnets better be dead on anyway or these things do not charge as well IMHO, with such a small trigger, you can mount it right on/next to the main power coil. The circuit will work w/o the EB diode, however, the trigger coil likes to have it. you can do w/o the neon, however, w/o it, do not remove the charging battery unless you like to solder and have a few transistors at the ready.

Patrick
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  #173  
Old 04-19-2011, 03:13 PM
Mark Mark is offline
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Hey Guys,

I've got my 3-pole kit set up as follows.

Running the motor on a single battery with the half bipolar switch directing the spike back to battery, its running on 12.23 volts, 35 ma @ around 2000rpm using 1 bifilar coil. Then I have my 2 single wire coils in series that I'm shorting out using a Bedini circuit and the other generator coil as the trigger. The spike which is run thru a FWBR to a 10uf250volt cap and back to the run battery. The cap only fills to 80-90 volts when disconnected from the battery at 1900rpm's.

In the first hour battery voltage has risen .01 of a volt. I let you know what happens after it runs a few more hours.
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  #174  
Old 04-20-2011, 02:29 AM
Mark Mark is offline
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Update:

I ran the motor for 12 hours and the small motorcycle battery I'm using for this test went from 12.23 down to 12.20. Not too bad for a 12 hour run. I will let the battery sit over night and see if it bounces back any then continue the test in the morning.
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  #175  
Old 04-20-2011, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
Update:

I ran the motor for 12 hours and the small motorcycle battery I'm using for this test went from 12.23 down to 12.20. Not too bad for a 12 hour run. I will let the battery sit over night and see if it bounces back any then continue the test in the morning.
Excelent!

we have had a good learning experience w/ that kit here are a few vids we posted that show a couple of Bedini/Cole experiments we did.

YouTube - Micro 3GT "Farris Wheel"

YouTube - John Bedini Ferris Wheel - Micro 3GT self start

YouTube - Micro 3GT Farris Wheel Cap Dump


Patrick
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  #176  
Old 06-30-2013, 10:30 AM
MrPounal007 MrPounal007 is offline
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Quote:
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Thanks Bits, need to do an update to that with the halls. Got some very good results once I changed to halls
can you send me how to connect the halls?
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  #177  
Old 07-02-2013, 11:16 AM
MrPounal007 MrPounal007 is offline
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Originally Posted by citfta View Post
Hi Todd,

Yes if you are going to use half the circuit like you would for a monopole then you only need one trigger winding. That is the way I had mine for my SSG for a while. Then I changed it to a hall effect so I could play around with the timing some and vary from the fixed timing of the trigger winding. Still experimenting with the hall setup. I am looking for the best timing and length of pulse for the best charging.

C ya, Carroll
yes sir can you tell me connect the halls in the circuit?
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  #178  
Old 08-28-2014, 04:04 PM
MALEXIOU1 MALEXIOU1 is offline
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hall effect

[QUOTE=ren;54687]Full circuit here

http://rpmgt.org/SequentialBipolarCircuit.jpg

Half here http://rpmgt.org/mot.jpg

or here http://www.rexresearch.com/bedini/6392-2.gif

or here http://www.esmhome.org/library/bedin...schematics.jpg[/QUOTE

i have a window motor with 24 strands of wire and transistors and i want to use the hall effect to start the motor. i am using 10ohm base resistors . i am not familiar with the hall effect circuit for each strand i will have to use 2 transistors and 470ohm resistor. or i will only use one strand(wire) as drive coil and two transistors MJL21193 MJL21194.
Thnks
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  #179  
Old 08-29-2014, 01:53 PM
wrtner wrtner is offline
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Originally Posted by MALEXIOU1 View Post
There needs to be no "www"here:

http://rexresearch.com/bedini/6392-2.gif

(At some point, the dons who run the Net should straighten out some of its strange anomalies)
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