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John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

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  #61  
Old 07-02-2008, 09:18 PM
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The second trigger doesnt have to be wound in reverse, you simply switch the ends.

So on one half of the full circuit you would send the end of your coil to the emitter and the start through your resistance to base, and on the other half you would send the end of your coil through resistance to base and the start to the emitter. One picks up the north and the other picks up the south. Make sense?
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  #62  
Old 07-03-2008, 12:23 AM
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Yes it sort of makes sense...

I was planning to have two bifiler coils 90 degrees apart with seperate half circuits like in the Bedini notes but your description about picking up north and south is starting to make sense.....thanks!

Can you tell me where the "power coil" start and end go in the half circuit? That is very confusing..... In the half circuit drawing the "C" point has a dot... does that mean start or end.... thanks again......! Same for trigger... what does "A" with a dot mean.... start or end...?

I saw one window circuit on youtube that had all North poles instead of NSNSNS etc....

Like an SSG....Can this work? What is it about the "window winding" that is different than a "spool winding"?

Todd
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  #63  
Old 07-03-2008, 07:30 AM
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It should work either way with the half circuit, as long as you wire up the power winding the same way as the trigger winding. The dot usually signifies the top of the coil.

The window motor could work with all norths I guess, but it couldnt have same poles @ 180 degrees , or the window coils would have to be offset. EDIT: Do you mean the half circuit on the monopole? That can be done, but it isnt a true window motor as it uses a cored electromagnet


There are lots of differences between the two. For starters there is no core...
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  #64  
Old 07-09-2008, 10:44 PM
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Window motor

This one has been said to of run for over a month...

S-Cage Stator and Reed Switch-Driven Bedini-Cole Commutator Large Window Motor

MAJOR COIL THERE!
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  #65  
Old 07-09-2008, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
Hi ren
I started to read through all 3k posts on window motor group at yahoo, this will take a while. I passed by a post where it is said that the steel rotor will give more torque but less RPMs. The steel is used because of the flywheel effect and because it is magnetic and all attached magnets this way form kind of one big magnet. I ordered my neos, they will be 4"x1"x1" - very strong. Each one of these can lift about 190 pounds of weight
They are talking that the basic window motor should have two coils with 350 turns. One wire should be smaller and other thicker, just like in SSG. But some of them are also talking about a third winding that should be wound with a twice as long wire and this is called the generator winding. I do not quite understand this so far, but I am also gotten through about 50 messages. Do you know something about this third winding and its functions? And what about magnet distance to windings? Is smaller gap better? It's just that I want to learn as much as I can about window motors before I start building it as soon as my magnets arrive.
Thanks!

Hi Jet, dude I missed your post somehow! I dont have access to the window motor forums, Im glad you gave me that tidbit of information about the steel. I will have to see how it performs for me. I am planning to wind a generator coil around my multifilar arrangement, the way I see it is this. If you are turning your rotor with pulses the generator coil can be used like a pickup winding, collecting potential from the rotating magnetic field. The pulses going through the drive windings are only going to increase this effect IMO. So if we can capture alot off this winding into a cap and have it dump out of phase back into the front end then perhaps we can supplement some or all of the input?

I am going to have a very fine air gap, (precise rotor a must as always) Probably in the 1-2 mm range. Remember to leave enough space for some zip ties around the coil in a couple of places too. Make sure your rotor is all sorted before you wind your coil, or make it removeable. You will have to use your imagination around the shaft and bearings to keep the wire clear. I reckon a small aluminum rim from a car or motorcycle could make a great rotor for those neos. Youd have to mount them sturdy though.

Those neos sound tasty be careful with them! Look forward to seeing some results. I am looking at getting my wire within the next week. Happy Coiling! And let me know if you come across any more tidbits from the window motor forums!

Ren

PS heres a little pic from John that sorta explains the generator winding.
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  #66  
Old 07-10-2008, 08:48 AM
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Hey MArt nice find on that S coil Interesting approach.
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  #67  
Old 07-10-2008, 03:22 PM
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Two window motor questions....

Is there a minimum magnetic field downtime for the motor to work?

I have a 4" diameter pvc pipe rotor and my magnets are 2" wide so they will be very close together if I use 6 magnets at 60 degrees of seperation.... or should I just start out with two magnets 180 degrees apart? Do more magnetic field pulses per rotation give more torque/mechanical force?

Second question, I have plenty of 24 and 20 guage wire, if i twist two or more strands of 24 or 20 guage wire together and connect the ends, will I effectively have one wire of a thicker guage for more current and torque?

My goal is to get this window motor to spin the rotor of one or more car alternators to charge a bank of batteries......;-)

Thank you for any and all suggestions.....

Todd
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  #68  
Old 07-11-2008, 06:51 AM
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John has tried various designs, Ive seen some that have the edges of the magnets touching. Its up to you to determine what works best I think, remember if your magnets are strong they need to be fixed down well, and you'll want to make sure it is well balanced etc before doing any permanent gluing.

I like your thoughts on turning a conventional load, but its kind of working backwards. You have your rotating magnetic field within your motor, you can pick up a fair bit of energy off that! Thats not to say you cant have an energizer that is driven mechanically, but an alternator (it would most likely have to be a PMM type) will have considerable cogging/magnetic friction and your window will need to be very powerful to turn it.

I would try to get the 6 poles on if you can, the wire you have should work ok. If you want to switch on both poles wind two trigger wires with your power, and if you want recovery wind a big recovery coil at least twice as long as your power winding.

Im no guru, but thats my advice.
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:36 PM
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Hi Ren,

Thank you for the info....

I just want to be clear on your comments on the coils.... so basically I need 4 windings.... two triggers, a recovery, and a power coil, is that correct?

Is there a schematic for this configuration?

Have a most excellent day.....

Todd
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:26 PM
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Todd, you could get this to work with only one winding. It would involve a device like a hall or opto to do the triggering though. My suggestion of four windings was to allow for you to configure it anyway you choose and allow for testing of various configurations.

If you are just wanting to build a basic model you can so easily with two windings, there are schematics in this thread already for those. If you wind them all you dont have to use them all at once.
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Old 07-12-2008, 12:19 AM
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Thanks Ren,

I agree that it will be a lot more flexable if I wind 4 to start and then use them as I need them....

I measured my rotor and I think I have about 1/2 inch between each row of magnets if I do the 6 pole so I will start with two and build up to the 6 once I get everything working.....

Question about PC Oscopes.... Does anyone have any suggestions for a PC based Oscope? I see one for $169 that is USB based that does a lot of things.... Is there one that is more basic than that for under $100?



Todd
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  #72  
Old 08-25-2008, 03:52 PM
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hi Jetijs, I think that the generator coil is placed with the others windings in order to generate extra power to make the bedini window motor overunity without having to do any work over an air-core-coil .

I Had built an bedini cole circuit with a monopole coil not a window motor, and is very efficient , here im saying that it generates .98 of what it takes to move the rotor, and i'm thinking that an third coil will produce the overunity.

I take the basic bedini cole circuit, it is best than the full sequential bipolar version, sorry ren, you can re-make this, and your motor will be overunity.

Note that the full cole circuit is for using the hall ic's, in that case is better, but if you are using coils the best choice is simple bedini cole circuit.

Sorry for my bad english i'm from Argentina..

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  #73  
Old 08-25-2008, 03:59 PM
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http://www.icehouse.net/john1/mot1.jpg

This is how looks my motor like John Bedini monopole version of bedini/cole circuit.


Thanks John Bedini, I love you!! I UNDERSTAND YOU!
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Old 08-25-2008, 04:05 PM
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I have my motor running for two hours continous and the battery dropped 0.05 volts.
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Old 08-25-2008, 05:20 PM
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RE: schematic

Quote:
Originally Posted by ren View Post
hey jet, its this one here. Pots on all resistors. The one between the pnp base and the small npn (I used mpsa06) will dramatically decrease amp draw if its high resistance (1k plus). Still tinkering with it, I'll post the exact schematic I used soon. This schematic isolates the power winding at all times except for when it fires, not like the SG circuit in which the coil is an extension of the run battery. Thats my understanding anyway.

NOG, this rotor is so tiny, and I have no way to load it properly. Im building a bigger one at the moment, it will be able to be loaded sufficiently.
Hi Ren,

Could I get your schematic from you on this, I looked at this post and did not see it.

Thanks!
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  #76  
Old 08-25-2008, 09:38 PM
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Hey theremart this is the circuit http://www.energenx.com/john34/dsw1.jpg
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:27 PM
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Hi guys,

@ Dark Wizard. I have run it off the full and half circuit, using trigger coils in both instances. To do so I just have to disconnect one trigger wire and it becomes the half circuit. The halls for timing were a bit difficult for me, anyway, I am happy with the triggers as they are. They allow me to run higher voltages safely and easily. I have run it for over 5 hours and lost .01 of a volt, but the torque is nearly non existent at this draw. Anyway 500ma isnt much to pay for the speed and torque it puts out. Plus charging on the back end.

@ Mart. The schematic is the half circuit that I was reffering to. You can find it here http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/YCuzSCV...iles/mcct1.jpg
The 3k resistor is the one I am reffering to. Make it 220 ohms with a 2k pot to start with. If its too high you cant get it up to speed.

Let me know if you need more info.

Ren
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  #78  
Old 08-25-2008, 10:34 PM
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Re: monopole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkwizard View Post
http://www.icehouse.net/john1/mot1.jpg

This is how looks my motor like John Bedini monopole version of bedini/cole circuit.


Thanks John Bedini, I love you!! I UNDERSTAND YOU!

Ok Wiz, you have built this circuit?

Ren, is this close to what you have?

Mart
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:58 PM
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With 3.3k the motor doesn't run but i put a 2k potentiometer here and i could regulate the trigger current in order to switch on PNP and NPN.

I use an ST ELECTRONICS PNP MJ2955, and two motorola NPN 2N3055 , first i put mjl 21194 here but 2n3055 "junk" run better. I don't know why, but junkyard 2n3055 bipolar transistor performs better on my circuit.
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:31 PM
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my experienced with the MJL21194 is similar

my small bedini motor works great with 2n3055 but MJL21194 are less effective I know the MJL21194 is an excellent chip to use it in my motor controller but for some reason seems less effective when using Neodymium magnets.
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  #81  
Old 08-26-2008, 12:05 AM
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Bedini cole circuit uses mj2955 PNP and 2n3055 npn, i'm talking about put an mjl 21194 instead an 2n3055 , doesn`t make any visible difference.

mj2955 PNP cannot be replaced by an 2n3055 NPN.

Basically bedini cole circuit is the original circuit, that recharges the primary battery.
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Old 08-26-2008, 12:14 AM
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My experience with this system is that it works better with an iron core flux transformer , as showed bedini on the 2004 patent, extra/generator coils must be window coils as showed by rick friedrich in his ssg self runner window version. The extra window coils must be connected on series with a hall switching device trough a diode bridge to a battery , the pulses of high electroscalar potential must elevate the voltage, and overcome overunity.
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Old 08-26-2008, 12:31 AM
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neos could be the problem there tecknmoancer(lol, love that name ) the 2n3055 is a great little transistor, shouldnt be underestimated. I wonder if your MJL was a genuine one, probably worth checking out this page

Counterfeit Transistors

goes for anyone who is buying these.

@ Mart, when I started this thread it was in relation to the little build I had done. EDIT: oops I think I have removed the pics I originally posted. Im running out of room for attachments, I can email you some of them if you need em

This little coil of bifilar 0.5 is switching a two pole HDD rotor with the half circuit as pictured in the link above. I cant remember exact resistances but I will give you this to start with.

Build a sg circuit with the mpsao6. Dont attach any coils. Make sure you check the pins, the middle one is the base! Be careful when soldering, its very small and easy to damage. Use 1n914 for the E-B diode and dont put any output diode on it. 100-500 ohm fixed resistor and a 1-5k pot

Next get a PNP (Darkwizard I used the same ones as you ) and wire the emitter to your positive power supply and or Cap. Also wire 470 ohm resistor between Emitter and base. For these T03 style casings its as simple as 470ohms across the two pins. You can experiment with different resistances here, but this will get it running. Now here comes the part that we are talking about which can alter your amperage up and down really well.

Wire a 220ohms resistor off the base of the PNP (you can add a 1-2k pot here for tweaking, but start it with low resistance) and then connect that to the COLLECTOR of the MPSAO6. The emitter of that then goes to the base of the complimentary NPN, no resistance necessary (though I have never tested anything here??).

Whatever configuration you have used for your PNP use also for the NPN. That is, 470 ohms on the PNP equals 470 ohms on the NPN. This is easy again for the T03, just wire it across the pins. The emitter goes to the negative of your circuits source.

The drive/power coil/s go between the collectors of the NPN and PNP, the signal MPS has the trigger coil hooked to the base/emitter in SG fashion. If you are using a superpole rotor (souths and norths) one polarity will pick up and fire on the norths, the other polarity will pick up and fire on the souths. You will need to inverse the power coil to match the trigger coil if you arent using the full circuit.

Bridge comes off the power coil, in this case just use one of the other collector terminals on your TO3's.

Im pretty confident you know how to build it Mart, so this is for anyone else who may be struggling to comprehend it.
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Old 08-26-2008, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ren View Post
neos could be the problem there tecknmoancer(lol, love that name ) the 2n3055 is a great little transistor, shouldnt be underestimated. I wonder if your MJL was a genuine one, probably worth checking out this page

Counterfeit Transistors

goes for anyone who is buying these.

@ Mart, when I started this thread it was in relation to the little build I had done. EDIT: oops I think I have removed the pics I originally posted. Im running out of room for attachments, I can email you some of them if you need em

This little coil of bifilar 0.5 is switching a two pole HDD rotor with the half circuit as pictured in the link above. I cant remember exact resistances but I will give you this to start with.

Build a sg circuit with the mpsao6. Dont attach any coils. Make sure you check the pins, the middle one is the base! Be careful when soldering, its very small and easy to damage. Use 1n914 for the E-B diode and dont put any output diode on it. 100-500 ohm fixed resistor and a 1-5k pot

Next get a PNP (Darkwizard I used the same ones as you ) and wire the emitter to your positive power supply and or Cap. Also wire 470 ohm resistor between Emitter and base. For these T03 style casings its as simple as 470ohms across the two pins. You can experiment with different resistances here, but this will get it running. Now here comes the part that we are talking about which can alter your amperage up and down really well.

Wire a 220ohms resistor off the base of the PNP (you can add a 1-2k pot here for tweaking, but start it with low resistance) and then connect that to the COLLECTOR of the MPSAO6. The emitter of that then goes to the base of the complimentary NPN, no resistance necessary (though I have never tested anything here??).

Whatever configuration you have used for your PNP use also for the NPN. That is, 470 ohms on the PNP equals 470 ohms on the NPN. This is easy again for the T03, just wire it across the pins. The emitter goes to the negative of your circuits source.

The drive/power coil/s go between the collectors of the NPN and PNP, the signal MPS has the trigger coil hooked to the base/emitter in SG fashion. If you are using a superpole rotor (souths and norths) one polarity will pick up and fire on the norths, the other polarity will pick up and fire on the souths. You will need to inverse the power coil to match the trigger coil if you arent using the full circuit.

Bridge comes off the power coil, in this case just use one of the other collector terminals on your TO3's.

Im pretty confident you know how to build it Mart, so this is for anyone else who may be struggling to comprehend it.
thanks ren for the link, I checked out my MJL21194 they were the real deal as for my mistaken chip number MJ2955, may I just say DOH!!! pulls his foot squarely out of his mouth and says sorry
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  #85  
Old 08-26-2008, 01:34 PM
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Ren, i love your motor!!! The best window motor on the web!

Your motor is very strong , it will move a car alternator?
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Old 08-26-2008, 06:29 PM
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Ok, i will put this in other form, take your trigger coils and put all of them connected in series and connect this to a diode bridge , this will turn your bedini cole circuit into a generator, and take some of what is producing to the primary battery in order to increase the volts here, and the trigger - transistor switching can be replaced by hall efect transistors or reed switch like on the adam bedini version motor.

This will produce the overunity, because you are generating a pulse in order to switch the transistors in the order of the battery voltage , with hall switching devices you will waste some energy of the primary battery but you will gain a little more in the coils.

Original Bedini/Cole sequential bipolar circuit is as it is but some reason , that is the reason that the upgraded circuit doesnīt have any trigger coil, because it will switch trough the hall effect and battery voltage, more resistance is needed in order to use little current of the primary.

It is a simple experiment, you donīt have to pay anything in order to get the energy. Faithfully!
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:12 PM
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http://web.archive.org/web/200009022...john1/amm1.jpg

this was the bedini adam motor i'm talking about the only thing that one has to do is convert the bedini cole trigger coils into generator coils and bingo, this circuit has two pnp and one npn and one hall switch
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:22 PM
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This is what i'm talking about.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BEDINI COLE MODIFIED.JPG (28.6 KB, 371 views)
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:35 PM
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The best timing for this device is what John was showing in his window motor without battery.

this link

http://www.icehouse.net/john34/bedinicolemotor.mpg

John uses this circuit but instead of putting a reed switch he will use an hall efect transistor
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Last edited by darkwizard; 08-26-2008 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 08-26-2008, 10:30 PM
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Bedini uses an extra transistor, and i think that he is using an extra power coil
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