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Old 06-12-2008, 10:09 PM
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Window Motor Replication

It seems the Monopole forums are now moving into discussion of the window motor, quite timely considering I am halfway through a build. I am looking forward to seeing how much torque can be extracted from this machine.

Rotor is 300mm long, magnets are the length of the rotor (2 x 6 inch magnets) and the whole thing weighs over 20 kilos. Still havent made my mind up on the wire yet. I am also trying to find out the difference between a hollow mild steel hexagon as the rotors surface or a non magnetic hexagon. I believe the non magnetic may have a higher rpm, I just wonder why the steel is specified in the Bedini/Cole notes. Perhaps Peter can offer some insight.

Last edited by ren : 12-03-2009 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 06-13-2008, 03:16 PM
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Re: window coil wire

Good photos Ren. I like it. Yes, the wire size will be an important consideration. It will take a lot of wire, so you want to get it right on the first try. Are you thinking along the lines of 1,000 turns for the window coil, or something less than that? Judging by the size of your project, it would require around 3600 to 3800 feet of wire to do 1000 wraps. That's a lot of wire!

Last edited by rickoff : 06-13-2008 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 06-13-2008, 09:09 PM
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Hi Rickoff, I have figured out that 1 turn will equal about 1 meter. Im thinking somewhere along the lines of 200 turns of SWG 19 (AWG 18), thats 200m or more. Probably wind it tri or quad filar with SWG 21/24 as a trigger. Maybe a big recovery coil thrown in there too. who knows.

The magnetic fields are amazing on this thing. If I give it a spin and place a magnet about 1 foot away it will wiggle back and forth as the poles alternate.

I welcome any input others have to offer.

Last edited by ren : 06-13-2008 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 06-13-2008, 09:50 PM
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Bloody hell, Ren! That thing is going to be a monster!

Looking forward to your progress! Best of Luck!
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Old 06-14-2008, 03:52 PM
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Magnets

Hi Ren,

I think you are going to develop some great torque with this machine, and for a mecahnical device that is a big plus. What device, or devices/ do you plan to drive with the shaft output?

Those 2" x 6" magnets are really hefty! What is the supplier and part number on those? I'd like to check the specs.

Can't wait to see more pictures as you move forward with this.

Rickoff
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Old 06-14-2008, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ren View Post
Hi Rickoff, I have figured out that 1 turn will equal about 1 meter. Im thinking somewhere along the lines of 200 turns of SWG 19 (AWG 18), thats 200m or more. Probably wind it tri or quad filar with SWG 21/24 as a trigger. Maybe a big recovery coil thrown in there too. who knows.

The magnetic fields are amazing on this thing. If I give it a spin and place a magnet about 1 foot away it will wiggle back and forth as the poles alternate.

I welcome any input others have to offer.

Hi Ren,


That's a mighty nice looking build you have going there.I hope you have great success with it .


-Gary
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Old 06-15-2008, 12:15 AM
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Thanks Gmeat

Rick, the magnets I got from here Aussie Magnets: A World of Magnets to Your Door but that was only because postage was cheaper. I found another site (USA i think) where the 6 inch by 2 inc by 1 were like 5 or 6 bucks. International Postage was $300 though.

I'll get the thing running and see what I think is best matched as a load. Maybe an unconventional magneto like Hugh Piggots axial flux windmill. Pulse power out of it to match. Who knows.....
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Old 07-03-2008, 02:44 AM
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A little more progress made. Rebuilt the rotor, this time with precision cut hexagons. Its heaps better balanced and even

Last edited by ren : 07-27-2008 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 07-05-2008, 06:37 AM
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Re: Window motor progress

Hi Ren,

It's looking good. Thanks for the info on the magnets. The magnets are mounted on steel plates, right? It must be really tricky placing the magnets onto the plates so that they align exactly as you want them to. Did you use a NSNSNS placement? Are the angle irons used for supportive containment of the magnets, or for shielding purposes, or both? And what material did you use for the hexagonal end pieces this time?

It will be fun to see this in action. Keep up the good work.

Best regards, Rickoff
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Old 07-05-2008, 08:52 AM
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Hi Rickoff,

The magnets are fairly easy to align if precautions are taken. You cant go all brawn at em though, thats a challenge! They slide fairly easy against each other and on the steel plate. Thats the best way to pull em apart too. Gotta be careful when you put them on, they are brittle and will jump out of your hands onto the steel and smash if you try to place them directly on. The little pieces of angled aluminum help keep them straight. I am hoping they offer some sort of shielding or shaping benefit of the field too. The Hex shapes I got CNC'd are still plywood, but thicker and stronger, and precise. There is no wobbles and it coasts smoothly with a constant air gap. In truth it could use a little balancing though, 10 grams here and there, but the thing is so heavy it just keeps on keepin on!

The metal plates are there because the original bedini cole lab notes had mild steel specified with a hollow core. I am not sure how they will perform, but I know it should still work regardless. I dont think I will fix the magnets down till I test it all at low power. The other thing is that there is a small gap between the plates insomuch as each plate is isolated from the other. I would love to see if and how this would effect the shape of the fields. Perhaps it defeats the purpose if the steel perimeter isnt totally enclosed, I dont know, I'll find out. In that case I may be able to fill/patch it, but if I am going to go that far Ill probably skip to a non magnetic surface like aluminum. It is NSNSNS configured.

Last edited by ren : 07-05-2008 at 07:29 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 07-05-2008, 01:05 PM
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RE your setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ren View Post
Hi Rickoff,

The magnets are fairly easy to align if precautions are taken. The little pieces of angled aluminum help keep them straight. I am hoping they offer some sort of shielding or shaping benefit too. The Hex shapes I got CNC'd are still plywood, but thicker and stronger, and precise. There is no wobble and it coasts smoooooothly!

The metal plates are there because the original bedini cole lab notes had mild steel specified. I am not sure how they will perform, but I know it should still work regardless. I dont think I will fix the magnets down till I test it all at low power. The other thing is that there is a small gap between the plates insomuch as each plate is isolated from the other. I would love to see if and how this would effect the shape of the fields. It is NSNSNS configured.
I think the only thing I would change about your setup is the drag that will be caused with the gaps between each magnet. After you get this running, you might consider filling those gaps with foam or something else.... The less air friction the more rpm...

But looking great Ren! I hope this works out for ya
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Old 07-05-2008, 07:16 PM
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thanks Mart, good point.

I thought of an easy way to do this, non permanent too. Strip of bicycle inner tube will block all the gaps and hold my magnets in place. Ive already used a strip on my bicycle wheel, works great. And is only a mill thick or so, you still get a decent air gap. Probably stop me getting my fingers caught in it too!
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Old 07-14-2008, 10:20 PM
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The Lord works in mysterious ways!

I have been a little down lately due to some financial troubles, which have unfortunately put this window replication on hold. But someone is looking out for me.

I got a call from a good friend about three days ago who promptly introduced me to his boss who was a keen enthusiast in alternate energy ideas. After a little chat he offered to buy the wire for the window motor for me! Needless to say I am a little blown away by his generousity! $300 dollars later and Im off to pick up about 3 kilometers of wire tomorrow!

I cant wait to see it run. Thankyou Luke and Andrew for your contribution, it means the world to me. You guys will probably never even see this, but thanks all the same.
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Old 07-14-2008, 11:18 PM
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The Lord works in mysterious ways!

I have been a little down lately due to some financial troubles, which have unfortunately put this window replication on hold. But someone is looking out for me.

I got a call from a good friend about three days ago who promptly introduced me to his boss who was a keen enthusiast in alternate energy ideas. After a little chat he offered to buy the wire for the window motor for me! Needless to say I am a little blown away by his generousity! $300 dollars later and Im off to pick up about 3 kilometers of wire tomorrow!

I cant wait to see it run. Thankyou Luke and Andrew for your contribution, it means the world to me. You guys will probably never even see this, but thanks all the same.

Nice,

Note to self, figure out how Ren is living right, and duplicate

Congrates, I also am looking forward to seeing what that beast can do!

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Old 07-14-2008, 11:43 PM
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Lol @ Mart. I guess I got lucky hey


Small vid for you all. Just for laughs

YouTube - Project window and the dancing magnet
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Old 07-25-2008, 01:01 AM
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its insane....

Well after a full three hours of winding and an arvo of soldering it is running. Its a BEAST! Theres a little rattle from one of the bearings, it isnt seated tightly, Im not sure if I can fix it, otherwise I am totally happy with the outcome.

At the moment I have it running off the full sequential bipolar switch which works really well. I have an external Cemf load as another battery that is slowly charging up. I have to make a commutator now for some other experiments, and I might also try an SSG circuit, but I will make it non permanent so I can switch between both. Ill just be doing that for fun, this bipolar circuit works a treat

Oh.....by the way.... its septfilar (7) and I only have one power winding hooked up at the moment. Each power winding I add to the original circuit increases speed and torque. I am not sure if it is beneficial yet for each power winding to have its own bipolar circuit or if it makes no difference if they are all parallel joined at the one circuit

I cant stop the shaft with my hands on 24 volt, and the circuit is good for 50 or more.

You have to build this thing guys, it rocks! Im posting a couple of vids on the tube now.

Last edited by ren : 07-27-2008 at 06:12 AM.
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Old 07-25-2008, 01:22 AM
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first vid here

YouTube - JB/RC Window motor


Oh and I take back what I said before about not being able to stop it on 24 volts.

I CANT STOP IT ON 12! I can slow it down, but as it slows down it draws more amps and it gets harder and harder to stop!
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Old 07-25-2008, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
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first vid here

YouTube - JB/RC Window motor


Oh and I take back what I said before about not being able to stop it on 24 volts.

I CANT STOP IT ON 12! I can slow it down, but as it slows down it draws more amps and it gets harder and harder to stop!
Good work ren, how much amp draw?

Apparentely with this motor type attaching a generator can be cop > 1.
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Old 07-25-2008, 01:57 AM
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thanks Patmac.

Amp draw is totally adjustable from under 100ma to whatever you wish. On the video it was running at about 500ma. One of the resistors in the circuit can be replaced with a pot and this controls amperage quite effectively.

I reckon its Cop over 1 already.....
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Old 07-25-2008, 07:49 AM
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Nice work, ren
I got my huge 1"x1"x4" neo magnets, they are so strong that I can't get them separated even with thick spacers between them. This will be a chalane mounting them on an iron core, I am a bit scared
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Old 07-25-2008, 08:27 AM
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lol Jet, nice!

You might have to build a little jig (non magnetic of course) to slide them apart, you'll never get them apart by pulling Id suggest making a clamping device to hold your rotor too, one that isolates all the other poles so it cant spin on you while you set them. The little aluminum angles that I used on mine worked a treat, though they probably wouldnt be strong enough for Neos.

Whatever you do be careful champ.

I will be posting some more vids soon, and doing some load (mechanical) tests. And if anyone is interested I might put a little tutorial/project overview together for others that may be interested in replicating.
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Old 07-25-2008, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
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And if anyone is interested I might put a little tutorial/project overview together for others that may be interested in replicating.
Of course we would be interested (at least I certainly would)
Keep up the great work!
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Old 07-25-2008, 09:39 AM
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>tutorial/project overview together for others that may be interested in replicating.

Yes Pwwwez
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Old 07-25-2008, 09:53 AM
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Done gentlemen. Tute on its way.
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Old 07-25-2008, 12:26 PM
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Thumbs up

I would love to see and/or read any info on Window Motor Replication!

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Old 07-25-2008, 07:03 PM
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Large neos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetijs View Post
Nice work, ren
I got my huge 1"x1"x4" neo magnets, they are so strong that I can't get them separated even with thick spacers between them. This will be a chalane mounting them on an iron core, I am a bit scared
Yes be careful. I use leather gloves to work with them Fun and dangerous all the the same time. You going to make a window motor as well?
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Old 07-25-2008, 07:41 PM
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Yes, Mart.
I am also going to build a window motor, but instead I will use strong neo magnets. This will make the motor slower but give it greater torque. I already have six 1"x1"x4" neo magnets that are magnetized through thickness. All I have to do now is make some cad drawings and send them to my machinist. There is SO much I have to do and so little time...
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Old 07-25-2008, 08:24 PM
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Im amazed you fit in all you do JET?

Incase you missed it Jet there is an awesome post on the advanced forums from Carl Hurst on the window motor, its worth a read. The Neos will provide great torque, Im looking forward to seeing it run!
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Old 07-27-2008, 06:13 AM
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Here tis

Heres the first copy of the document. If anyone needs a different format sing out. Please let me know if it has any mistakes or you have any questions. Enjoy.

Last edited by ren : 08-31-2008 at 03:56 AM.
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Old 07-27-2008, 06:25 AM
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Ren you forgot to attach like i do all the time
Wanna send it to me in an email?'(ashtweth@gmail.com)
i am half way through the complete Bedini write up too
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