Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube 2020 ENERGY CONFERENCE - PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!!

2020 Energy Science & Technology Conference
PRE-REGISTER NOW!!!
http://energyscienceconference.com


Go Back   Energetic Forum > > >
   

John Bedini Discussion threads relating to John Bedini. Bedini SG, Bedini SSG, Crystal Batteries, etc...

* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #91  
Old 11-25-2012, 03:43 AM
tachyoncatcher's Avatar
tachyoncatcher tachyoncatcher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Counterspace
Posts: 414
Way to hang in there Garrett. That's a good rpm for a single coil, bike wheel energizer. A 12v battery discharged and holding 1.5 volt is a VERY bad battery. Let your Bedini charge that battery over night. Let it rest for 2 hours, if it holds >10v then charge it again. If less, then it is probably permanently damaged, unless it's an old battery. Do not try to use that battery to run your wheel. It needs a lot of conditioning. You should get a ohm reading of your pot by disconnecting one of the leads and get a reading where the leads were on your pot. This will tell you your base resistance for your wheel.
Great Job!
Randy
__________________
 

Last edited by tachyoncatcher; 11-26-2012 at 12:08 AM. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #92  
Old 11-25-2012, 05:10 AM
Gpilot's Avatar
Gpilot Gpilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
Ok, so if this is a good rpm, what should i do about the resistor? i am not using one right now, that the only way i got it to run. if i add another coil, do the magnets have to be PERFECTLY spaced apart? also, does it need to be a bifoiler coil as well? do i need a seperate trigger for each coil? i will do the ohms test to find my machines resistance. any more tips for increasing the rpm?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 11-26-2012, 12:33 AM
tachyoncatcher's Avatar
tachyoncatcher tachyoncatcher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Counterspace
Posts: 414
@Gpilot,
If you truly want to scale up your wheel, then I suggest next Tuesday, you get this:
Authorized Bedini SG Handbook?
There is no one on the planet with more knowledge than John Bedini when it comes to building these things. Regarding finding base resistance; I gave you direction on my post from yesterday. However, to start your wheel, you may need a lower base resistance. My wheel has a starting base resistance of only 50 ohms. Once it spins up I adjust my pot to around 2k for the best tuning parameters for my wheel. Yes, your magnets should be evenly spaced. How else would you be able to tune the timing of your wheel if the magnets reach the coils at different times? Use only one trigger for all coils. I'm sure the handbook will have a good schematic for that. I use one transistor for each winding. IE, if a coil has 5 windings, then I use 5 transistors for that coil and the trigger comes from my primary coil. When you start building multi coil machines, precision becomes important.
Good Luck.
Randy
__________________
 

Last edited by tachyoncatcher; 11-26-2012 at 12:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 11-26-2012, 10:08 AM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpilot View Post
While i was trying to get my rpms up, i tried using a spent 12v battery as the seconday. It started with 1.5v. The machine would ONLY function if the pot was all the way to the left, full resistance. If i turned the pot up at all, the pot would spark and the neon would illuminate. I left the pot turned down and charged the battery for 1 hr. and it went from 1.5 to 4.5. I have switched to an identicle battery as my primary and will be charging and discharging them for a few days. Just need my rpms up.
This is entirely because you have a heavily sulphated battery as a load. The impedance of the battery is so high the trigger circuit is a lower impedance so that's where the energy is going.

I'm trying to bring a battery back to life that I intentionally killed for the experiment ^_^ At the moment it sits on around 4v but the spikes going to it are off the scale on my scope so over 500v! This is lighting up the neons but my pot seems safe. What are you using for a base resistor?
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 11-26-2012, 06:13 PM
Gpilot's Avatar
Gpilot Gpilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
This is entirely because you have a heavily sulphated battery as a load. The impedance of the battery is so high the trigger circuit is a lower impedance so that's where the energy is going.

I'm trying to bring a battery back to life that I intentionally killed for the experiment ^_^ At the moment it sits on around 4v but the spikes going to it are off the scale on my scope so over 500v! This is lighting up the neons but my pot seems safe. What are you using for a base resistor?
The only way i could get my machine to function was to bypass the resistor. Although the resistor is still soldered to the base, i have the pot directly attached to the base. I have resistors of all sizes, but none of them would accelerate the wheel.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:15 PM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
It does sound like the pot is completely burnt out. Turning all the way down just makes a dead short.

What's the lowest base resistor you've tried?
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:36 PM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
after reading through some of the earlier posts, it sounds like the circuit is being forced into self oscillation. It's normal for an ssg to self oscillate some times, but the magnets passing the stator normally stops the self oscillation.

There's only two things I can think of that could be forcing it into self oscillation.

1. If your base resistors are actually a lot higher than you think they are. Like over 1k ohm.

or

2. If the 1N4001 diode is removed from the circuit it will force it into oscillation.

Have you tried replacing that diode?
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:52 PM
Gpilot's Avatar
Gpilot Gpilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
I have a 1k pot, 2k pot, and 5k pot. I felt i had burned up the 5k, so now using the 2k. 100ohms is the lowest resistor ive tried. 1k ohms is the most. How can my ssg be in self osilation if the machine works now? I tiny push will accelerate the wheel. I can change the diode. Which one? Base or collector?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 11-26-2012, 09:17 PM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
Without the 1n4001 diode an ssg circuit will oscillate at very low resistances, but go low enough and it will behave "normally" (except no ssg should be operating with a resistance this low). The 1n4001 is the diode between the base and the emitter.
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 11-26-2012, 10:02 PM
Gpilot's Avatar
Gpilot Gpilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
Without the 1n4001 diode an ssg circuit will oscillate at very low resistances, but go low enough and it will behave "normally" (except no ssg should be operating with a resistance this low). The 1n4001 is the diode between the base and the emitter.
Both of my diodes are 1n4001 because every place i went (in italy) told me the 4001 and 4007 are the same. I will change the diode and see what happens. But, is it even possible for the machine to be self oscillate if the wheel accelerates to 120-180 rmp one 1 coil?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 11-26-2012, 10:38 PM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpilot View Post
Both of my diodes are 1n4001 because every place i went (in italy) told me the 4001 and 4007 are the same. I will change the diode and see what happens. But, is it even possible for the machine to be self oscillate if the wheel accelerates to 120-180 rmp one 1 coil?
It isn't self oscillating at that rpm. though it could possible oscillate at that frequency.

I'll put it this way. Most machines with fairly normal coils will self oscillate with around 1-2k ohm base resistance... as long as their resistance doesn't go above a certain level it won't self oscillate. Now if they take out the 1n4001 diode the resistance needed to get it self oscillating will be something like 10 times lower (I'm pulling a figure out of a hat here) because it turns the trigger side of the circuit into and LC circuit and so it oscillates. But if the resistance is very low (ZERO in you case) then it won't self oscillate. It's hard to explain without diagrams of how the charges are behaving in the circuit, but just trust me for now
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:05 AM
Gpilot's Avatar
Gpilot Gpilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
Ok, i understand what you are saying. Should i change the diode, find the resistancec of my transistor, and install a new resistor? I am still unsure how to test my base resistance. Tach gave mecsome instruction, but itvwas unclear as to where to put my probes..
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:27 AM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
just try replacing the diode across the base/emitter.

You won't be able to find the resistance of the base of your transistor. When we talk about base resistance we mean the resistance that you have in series in the trigger circuit which is the base resistor & the pot.

It might not be the diode that is the problem, but that is what it sounds like. Either way, there is no way an SSG should be running with 0 ohm base resistance. Your amp draw will be astronomical and charging efficiency very poor.
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 11-27-2012, 03:02 PM
Gpilot's Avatar
Gpilot Gpilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
I will change the diode, then experiment with different resistors again. Hopefully i can get it working with a resistor
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 11-29-2012, 02:12 AM
tachyoncatcher's Avatar
tachyoncatcher tachyoncatcher is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Counterspace
Posts: 414
Seriously

Garrett,
Save yourself a LOT of more trouble. Get the book.
Bedini SG - The Authorized Beginner's Handbook
It explains it all in easy to understand terminology. You already have the parts you need.
Randy
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 11-29-2012, 01:52 PM
Gpilot's Avatar
Gpilot Gpilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
Yes, i will buy the book. But everytime i ask a question are you just going to tell me to buy the book? Another question, i have trouble soldering directly to the collector. All other solders are easy, but the bulb and the diode to the collector seem to take forever to attach. I fear that the heat could be damaging the componants. Is there a trick for soldering directly to a smooth, flat piece of metal? I scratched the surface a little to try and get a good surface, but still difficult, and hot.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 11-29-2012, 04:08 PM
Gpilot's Avatar
Gpilot Gpilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
I bought a solder tag kit to put on my transistor so i can easily solder to the collector. I dont know exactly how to use it. There is a clear film that goes over the transistor, and some plastic spacers, and some nuts and screws. This way i wont heat up the componants too much. I will be getting the book for Christmas as well.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 11-30-2012, 04:43 PM
Gpilot's Avatar
Gpilot Gpilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
Its alive

I made a new circuit from left over parts and got the machine running. I tried a 100 ohms resistor first, and it came to life. Now, should i test with different value resistors? Also, how can i test the amp draw with a basic multimeter? Before when i was running the machine with no resistor, the primary battery would loose the ability to power the wheel after about 20-24 hrs. What is a good time to shoot for, and will changing the resistance further improve running time?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:12 PM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
Glad you got it working 100 ohm is fine for now. that should give your pot some protection. Are you still using the 2k pot? How far do you have to twist the dial to get it to run best?

As fo the current draw, you hook your ammeter in series with either positive or negative input. But without a good quality meter (a True RMS meter preferably) or at least an analogue meter it may not give you a completely accurate reading on the current because it is being pulsed. It shouldn't be too far out and will give you an idea of the current draw.

The current draw you want will depend on where your machine runs best, which is usually where it achieves the highest RPM for the lowest current draw. Another guide is the C20 rate of your battery, which is the battery's AH rating divided by 20... so for example a 24AH battery can comfortable handle 1.2 amps being drawn from it. This is just so the batteries stay in good condition.

What kind of batteries are you using? I would be suprised if they could handle 20-24h discharge with a SG the size of yours with no base resistor How far would you let the voltage drop? If they are deep cycle batteries you don't want to discharge them below 10.5v... if they are car batteries then never below 12v. Going beyond these voltages will damage the batteries.
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:20 PM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpilot;216541[B
]the primary battery would loose the ability to power the wheel after about 20-24 hrs.[/B]
eep! Just read that again! I'm guessing this is the battery you tried charging earlier in the thread that was causing the neon to light.

Unfortunately, I have a feeling it will be a while before you can use that battery again. Last week I discharged a deep cycle battery below 4v to see how well an SSG can bring it back to life. It has become heavily sulfated and has been on an SG charger for a week with over 500v pulses going to it, but its resting voltage is still not over 5v. It has shown some improvement but don't think I'll be able to use this battery for a good while.
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:24 PM
Gpilot's Avatar
Gpilot Gpilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
I have a 1k, 2k, and 5k pot. With the 2k pot, it starts the best with the pot at 0.. All the way left. It speeds up as i turn the pot, but only to about 25%, then slows back down. With the 5k pot, i cant tell any difference when i adjust the pot. I am using motorcycle batteries, 12v, i think 7.5ah.
One the battery gets to 10.5v, u are saying i should then reverse the batteries to protect them? 1 cycle ends when the primary battery reaches 10.5?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:28 PM
Gpilot's Avatar
Gpilot Gpilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
eep! Just read that again! I'm guessing this is the battery you tried charging earlier in the thread that was causing the neon to light.

Unfortunately, I have a feeling it will be a while before you can use that battery again. Last week I discharged a deep cycle battery below 4v to see how well an SSG can bring it back to life. It has become heavily sulfated and has been on an SG charger for a week with over 500v pulses going to it, but its resting voltage is still not over 5v. It has shown some improvement but don't think I'll be able to use this battery for a good while.
No, the battery i used last week i pulled from someones garbage. It was sitting at 1.5 volts. The battery that ran for almost a day was a brand new 12v 7.5ah, i bought 2. I ran it down to 4v, like you did. I switched it to the secondary, and it charged up again in 1 cycle. What this tells me is i need to study more about the batteries, and how to safely use them. I am so new to this.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:38 PM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpilot View Post
No, the battery i used last week i pulled from someones garbage. It was sitting at 1.5 volts. The battery that ran for almost a day was a brand new 12v 7.5ah, i bought 2. I ran it down to 4v, like you did. I switched it to the secondary, and it charged up again in 1 cycle. What this tells me is i need to study more about the batteries, and how to safely use them. I am so new to this.
ah, that sounds ok then. If the battery has an AH rating on it then I'm pretty sure that means it is a deep cycle battery so yeah, never take it below 10.5v... I don't even like to take mine close to 11.5v just in case!

With 7.5ah batteries you don't want the current draw to go above 375ma which should be fine for a single coil machine. They normally draw between 200 - 350ma.

With the 2k pot turned up around 25% sounds about right. Normally a SG uses a base resistance somewhere around 600ohm (it can vary a lot though). If your 2k pot is turned up 25% and you have a base resistor which is 100ohms that is bang on 600ohms

You should be able to up the base resistor to 3-400 ohms and use the 1k pot.
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 11-30-2012, 05:59 PM
Gpilot's Avatar
Gpilot Gpilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
If i use a 1k pot and 300-400 ohms resistor, will it change any of the results i get? What would be the advantage of doing that? Am i wasting electricity in my current setup with the 2k pot?
__________________
 

Last edited by Gpilot; 11-30-2012 at 06:10 PM. Reason: Changed ohms range
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 11-30-2012, 08:19 PM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
unless you ever need to turn the dial past 50% on the 2k pot then you will be better off with a 1k pot. The advantage of using the 1k pot is it will be easier to tune but it won't make any overall difference to the performance or efficiency of the circuit.
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 12-01-2012, 07:13 PM
Gpilot's Avatar
Gpilot Gpilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
I am using the same 100 ohms resistor with a 1k pot. Would it be better if i used 300 ohms resistance and the 1k pot? Will it help with the fine tuning?
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 12-01-2012, 11:27 PM
Gpilot's Avatar
Gpilot Gpilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
It seems when i added the 100 ohms resistor, i lost the ability to tune using my pot(1k). Should i lower my resistor to 50 ohms?
__________________
 

Last edited by Gpilot; 12-02-2012 at 01:44 AM. Reason: Spelling
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 12-02-2012, 10:36 AM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpilot View Post
It seems when i added the 100 ohms resistor, i lost the ability to tune using my pot(1k).
How do you mean? When you turn the pot it makes no difference to the rotor?
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 12-02-2012, 01:25 PM
Gpilot's Avatar
Gpilot Gpilot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 72
Adjusting the pot does not change the speed of the wheel. Fine tuning is not possible. When i was running the machine without a resistor, i was able to adjust the speed of the wheel with the pot, up to about 25% with both the 1k and 2k pot. Now nothing, constand speed.
__________________
 
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 12-02-2012, 02:11 PM
Sephiroth's Avatar
Sephiroth Sephiroth is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 971
The only reason that can happen is if there is a short across the pot. Can you post a pic of the circuit?
__________________
"Theory guides. Experiment decides."

I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
Nikola Tesla
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

Choose your voluntary subscription

For one-time donations, please use the below button.


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers