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Old 03-11-2012, 12:02 AM
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Bizzy's Bedini Machine aka Watson Machine

Good evening
I have been regularly posting the progress of my experiments on Electricity's Watson Machine thread. However several freinds here on the forum suggested that I start a different thread since I am the one who is still actually working on this project so here it goes...

Also it has been made very clear that John Bedini is the person who actually developed this type of machine first before Watson so I thought it only fitting that I call my machine a Bedini Machine instead. I have a great admiration for John and am truely in awe of his work.

Basically in this thread I am attempting to run a standard off the shelf motor with an alternator for a power source. Eventually it is my goal to have the alternator supply all the power required to the motor which actually drives itself.
In theory this is helped along in two ways.

First of all the power to the motor is pulsed from what ever source is used. Once the momentum in a motor is started there is less power required to continue its movement. The transfer switch that I developed is timed to pulse once per revolution.
Secondly a fly wheel is used on the shaft of the motor to store the power in momentum so that the motor continues forcefully spinning while the power is off during the pulsing cycle. The magnets and counter weights on the trigger wheel that triggers the transfer switch, acts as the weight of the flywheel to keep momentum.

One of the basic problems in this type of machine is that when a motor and alternator are hooked directly together, Lenz's law greatly slows down the alternator and decreases the current going into the motor.
In my last video I demonstrate this

Transfer Switch.AVI - YouTube

When I attached a motor directly to an alternator there was a 507 rpm decrease in the alternator.
However when I isolate the motor from the alternator using my transfer switch there is only a 277 rpm reducing in the alternator.

Since the last video I have made several improvements and am now able to run a motor from an alternator via the transfer switch with only a 90 rpm reduction in the alternator.

Transfer Switch part 2 - YouTube

This is achieved by a better matched switch and alternator capacitor. I have also added several diodes to help guide the currently properly. In addition I attached the positive side of the fly back diode directly to the switch capacitor. This uses the back emf from the motor to keep the switch capacitor charged more so that the alternator capacitor doesn't have to drain more current which would require the alternator to put out more current and thus slow down when having to charge the alternator capacitor more.

This is where I am at this point in my work. Any and all comments would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Bizzy
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:23 AM
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Bizzy

Good to see you started your own thread for this. Have you tried putting a load on your alternator(s) to see what would happen ? I was wondering if you would
get the same effect as in "the 3 battery generating system". That is if your
RPM's would increase when a load is applied ?

George
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRC View Post
Good to see you started your own thread for this. Have you tried putting a load on your alternator(s) to see what would happen ? I was wondering if you would
get the same effect as in "the 3 battery generating system". That is if your
RPM's would increase when a load is applied ?

George
Hi George
So far the only load I have put on the alternators is the capacitor, which reduces the rpm s by 90. I haven't really been following the 3 battery thread that closely, but if you think it would increase the rpms I am all for it. I will start reading it today and see if it would work.
thanks
Bizzy
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRC View Post
Good to see you started your own thread for this. Have you tried putting a load on your alternator(s) to see what would happen ? I was wondering if you would
get the same effect as in "the 3 battery generating system". That is if your
RPMs would increase when a load is applied ?

George
Surely the $64,000 dollar question is what happens to the current when
the load is applied.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
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Surely the $64,000 dollar question is what happens to the current when
the load is applied.
Good morning
If I am understanding your question (and please correct me if I am wrong) you are asking about the current from the back emf when the motor is engaged. If that is your question then the answer would be the back emf (current) is routed to the switching capacitor. This charges the switching capacitor so that it has to draw less power from the alternator capacitor. Since there is less power drawn from the alternator capacitor, the alternator has to work less to recharge the alternator capacitor.

After several of other tests I can finally conclude that simply charging a capacitor will put a drag on the alternator. If I run just the alternator with no capacitor then suddenly closed the circuit to hook up a capacitor, there is a significant slowing of the alterator as well as a drop in voltage while it fills up the capacitor. However Once the capacitor is filled the alternaor resumes its normal speed.

This can be seen on my last video.

Intially the alternator voltage is 20.4 When I engage the switch and motor the alternator voltage drops down to 16.X This is when the switch capacitor is first being charged. However once the intial charge is complete and the back emf can help charge the switch capacitor the voltage from the alternator goes back upto 17.1
Let me know if that helps to answer your question.
Thanks
Bizzy
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:41 PM
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Capacitor to capacitor transfer

Good afternoon
Since I have switched threads I also wanted to point out that some were inquiring about the capacitor to capacitor transfer percentage.
With 17 volts at the alternator capacitor and 15.3 volts the swicth capacitor I am getting 90% voltage transfer.
However prior to sending the back emf to the switch capacitor I was getting 14.X volts in the switch capaictor which means there is actually only 82% of the volts being transfered to the switch capacitor from the alternator capacitor.

Bizzy
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRC View Post
Good to see you started your own thread for this. Have you tried putting a load on your alternator(s) to see what would happen ? I was wondering if you would
get the same effect as in "the 3 battery generating system". That is if your
RPM's would increase when a load is applied ?

George
Hi George
I read alot of the 3 battery thread last night and tried putting a load on the alternator like Turion did...no gain rpm
Bizzy
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:52 PM
alvarohn alvarohn is offline
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Hi Bizzy

Are you using linear arrangement of magnets and coils in the alternator? or non linear?
best,

Alvaro
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvarohn View Post
Are you using linear arrangement of magnets and coils in the alternator? or non linear?
best,

Alvaro
Hi Alvaro
I am using a "Star Configuration". I got the idea from Hugh Piggot Hugh Piggott's home page while I was working on windmills a few years ago.
I am in the process of adding still another alternator to my machine so I can do a small video describing the alternator better and how it is set up and hopefully describe it in more detail this weekend for you.
Bizzy

Last edited by Bizzy : 03-13-2012 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:41 PM
alvarohn alvarohn is offline
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non linear arrangement

I think that in 2010 convention dvd John Bedini says that the "energizer" should be with non linear arrangements of magnets and coils, not all coils passing magnets at the same time. to Create Asymmetry.

best,
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Old 03-13-2012, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvarohn View Post
I think that in 2010 convention dvd John Bedini says that the "energizer" should be with non linear arrangements of magnets and coils, not all coils passing magnets at the same time. to Create Asymmetry.

best,
Hi Alvarohn,
In mine I use 8 (1"X2") magnets each with altering polarity S/N/S/N/S/N
And I use 6 coils of 14 gauge wire. Each coil is wound around a 1"X2" jig so that there are actuallt 12 coil bundles (2 bundles for each coil) for the magnets to pass over. So that there is only one magnet over a coil at any one time.
I didn't know the name until you mentioned it so yes mine are also non linear
Thanks
Bizzy
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:20 PM
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Don't forget that central pillars of Bedini's design are the flywheel
and that the pulse going to the motor must be out of phase with
the pulse coming from the energiser.
Paul-R
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:49 AM
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Bizzy,
From what I understand, the magnetic field of one device will interact and adversely affect the other device. A non conductive coupling device would help. A shield of some kind between the two might help, but turning the second device 90 degrees from the first should actually cause the magnetic field of one to assist the other. I know that's a pain in the butt design change, but I will look around to see what gearing I have that will do that. I know I have some somewhere!

Dave
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrtner View Post
Don't forget that central pillars of Bedini's design are the flywheel
and that the pulse going to the motor must be out of phase with
the pulse coming from the energiser.
Paul-R
Hi Paul,
In those two cases I have it covered...
The trigger wheel and magnets act as a flywheel for the main shaft.
The switch and trigger magnets pulse the motor from the transfer capacitor when the energizer/alternator and the switch capacitor swicth capaitor are disconnected.
Bizzy
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turion View Post
Bizzy,
From what I understand, the magnetic field of one device will interact and adversely affect the other device. A non conductive coupling device would help. A shield of some kind between the two might help, but turning the second device 90 degrees from the first should actually cause the magnetic field of one to assist the other. I know that's a pain in the butt design change, but I will look around to see what gearing I have that will do that. I know I have some somewhere!

Dave
Hi Dave,
When the switch is engaged it acts as an insulator between the alternator and the motor. What do you mean by "turning the second device 90%"?
Thanks
Bizzy

Last edited by Bizzy : 03-14-2012 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:54 AM
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Amperage

Good morning everyone,
As usual I was running some tests on my machine before work and I recalled a post I read in the forum some time ago. Unfortunately I don't recall who said it or where but I do recall the quote it said.
"Current is more important than volts to run a motor"
I am seeing that is true when I run my various tests. When amps are higher so is motor speed.
So my question is how do I convert volts to amps.
I don't mean mathematically i=v/r i mean actually converting volts to amps in a circuit. As usualy any imput would be greatly apprciated.
Thanks
Bizzy

Last edited by Bizzy : 03-14-2012 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizzy View Post
Good morning everyone,
As usual I was running some tests on my machine before work and I recalled a post I read in the forum some time ago. Unfortunately I don't recall who said it or where but I do recall the quote it said.
"Current is more important than volts to run a motor"
I am seeing that is true when I run my various tests. When amps are higher so is motor speed.
So my question is how do I convert volts to amps.
I don't mean mathematically i=v/r i mean actually converting volts to amps in a circuit.
As usualy any imput would be greatly apprciated.
Thanks
Bizzy
I think it was mbrown in the Lockridge thread that said it. Isn't it by reducing
voltage that amps increase ? You might need some type of DC to DC converter. I think it can also be done with capacitors. Say three 4v capacitors in series = 12v, then tap two Capacitors to = 8 volts. I don't know for sure. There are lot more expert people around here than me for this. Another way that will increase amperage for sure, without loss of voltage, is to parallel two or more batteries. You will get the combined amperage
of all the batteries you are using. I am assuming you are using 12v batteries.

George
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRC View Post
I think it was mbrown in the Lockridge thread that said it. Isn't it by reducing
voltage that amps increase ? You might need some type of DC to DC converter. I think it can also be done with capacitors. Say three 4v capacitors in series = 12v, then tap two Capacitors to = 8 volts. I don't know for sure. There are lot more expert people around here than me for this. Another way that will increase amperage for sure, without loss of voltage, is to parallel two or more batteries. You will get the combined amperage
of all the batteries you are using. I am assuming you are using 12v batteries.

George
Hi George
Yes it was mbrown thanks for helping me remember!

Yes I know about using batteries or capacitors in parrallel to increase amperage.
I like the idea of using 12 volt capictors then sizing the capacior voltage down to 8 volts etc. Kind of like a funnel....I thought about that before but not for this reason. This warrants serious consideration. I will have to test this very soon.
Thanks
Bizzy

Last edited by Bizzy : 03-14-2012 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizzy View Post
Hi Paul,
In those two cases I have it covered...
The trigger wheel and magnets act as a flywheel for the main shaft.
The switch and trigger magnets pulse the motor from the transfer capacitor when the energizer/alternator and the switch capacitor switch capacitor are disconnected.
Bizzy
Dear Bizzy,

Have another look at Jim Watson's development of John Bedini's original
proposition. He took it to another level. That has is a real flywheel. I
understand that the flywheel matters.

It would be good if JB would comment.......

Last edited by wrtner : 03-14-2012 at 01:59 PM. Reason: A distressing imperfection.
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Old 03-14-2012, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrtner View Post
Dear Bizzy,

Have another look at Jim Watson's development of John Bedini's original
proposition. He took it to another level. That has is a real flywheel. I
understand that the flywheel matters.

It would be good if JB would comment.......
Hi Paul,
I can add weight to the flywheel/triggerwheel at any time although given my space contrant I can not add any further distance away from the center.
I am a little hesistant to add further weight at this time only becuase I have it balance to my motor size. However once I get the circuit worked out better I would very much like to do just that.
vielen Dank
Bizzy

Last edited by Bizzy : 03-14-2012 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:18 AM
wrtner wrtner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizzy View Post
I am a little hesistant to add further weight at this time
I think you need to design in a need for a heavy flywheel
or your project may never deliver a good COP.
Check out the first two projects here:
IDEAS AND MOTORS
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrtner View Post
I think you need to design in a need for a heavy flywheel
or your project may never deliver a good COP.
Check out the first two projects here:
IDEAS AND MOTORS
Hi Paul
Thanks for sharing those it has been a while since I delved into that site. There is a way I can add more weight onto my flywheel protion of the trigger wheel. Once I complete the experiments I am currently in I can do that.
Thanks
Bizzy
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRC View Post
I think it was mbrown in the Lockridge thread that said it. Isn't it by reducing
voltage that amps increase ? You might need some type of DC to DC converter. I think it can also be done with capacitors. Say three 4v capacitors in series = 12v, then tap two Capacitors to = 8 volts. I don't know for sure. There are lot more expert people around here than me for this. Another way that will increase amperage for sure, without loss of voltage, is to parallel two or more batteries. You will get the combined amperage
of all the batteries you are using. I am assuming you are using 12v batteries.

George
Hi George
Last night I started running some tests with two capacitors in a series at the alternator. The intial tests look promising. I am getting higher amperage reading on my test motor as well as higher test motor speeds. There is however a slightly higher differance in alternator speed as a result but I may be able to work able that.
Thanks
Bizzy
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:54 AM
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Sounds good

Bizzy,

Glad I was able to throw out some ideas that helped. I wish I was more of an
expert on this kind of stuff. Sounds like you are making progress at least. I
think you will eventually get the results you want if you keep at it.

George
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:43 PM
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Alternator Capacitors in series

Hi George
I went back into some of my previous tests where I did infact use two capacitors in series or higher voltage capacitors at the alternator. If you look at my last video my starting video was only 20.X volts. However in previous videos it was 26 to 27 volts because I used the higher voltage capacitors. The higher capacitor volts also allowed the alternator to run faster. Since it started higher it had further to drop when I engaged the switch. This was giving me higher differance readings in speed, which was what I was watching to gauge performance.
However In looking over the numbers more closely all the "improved" tests would stop falling when the alternator speed was around 600 to 650 rpms.
So I was able to determine that as long as the alternator was spinning in that range it is ok so then in that grouping I looked for the best actual test motor speed.
There were exceptions BUT in MOST cases the test that used the alternator capacitors in series gave the highest test motor speed.
This doesn't solve all of my technical problems but it does set me in a better direction than I was before.

Sometimes we have the answers right under our nose but we need other people to remind us to look.
Thanks
Bizzy
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Old 03-16-2012, 12:16 PM
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Updated Switch circuit

Good morning

After additional research here is my updated switch circuit.
The changes I made keep the speed of the alternator around the mid 600 rpm zone but produces a higher speed on the test motor around 2300+ rpms

The first change you will notice is the two capictors in series at the alternator. This allows for a higher initial alternator speed and higher voltage at the alternator which is allowed to convert to amperage when it continues to the switch capacitor(thanks George)
The next change you will notice is the removal of the diode between the switch and the alternator capacitor.
The biggest change you will notice is that the back emf from the motor now is diverted to the alternator capacitor instead of the switch capacitor. The reason for the better performance is that the back emf is more voltage than current. Since the voltage capacity is now increased it can accomodatethe additional voltage better than the single switch capacitor.
Feel free to ask any questions you may have.
Thanks
Bizzy
Attached Images
File Type: pdf Updated Switch schematic.pdf (27.8 KB, 132 views)
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:36 PM
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progress update

Good afternoon
I wanted to share an update on my Bedini Machine.
This past weekend I continued my testing of using series capacitors at the alternator. It looks very promising. There are also a few more circuit adjustments I need to test before I continue forward as well.

I also tested using batteries instead of the alternator capacitors. In this test the switch is hooked up directly to the main motor which turns the alternator rotors.
Previously it would only run for 1 hour and 10 minutes
With the improved circuit it ran for 4 hour 50 minutes
When I added the 2nd alternator it ran for 13 hours 35 minutes. ( my wife hated this one because it is so loud)
It should also be noted that adding the 2nd alternator to the shaft does not slow down the shaft. It does however require a little longer to get up to maximum speed.

Eventually once I have my circuit worked out completely that I will be able to add as many alternators as needed to supply the alternator capacitors with the required power.

I didn't have time to make the alternator video. I will wait until I add the next alternator to make the next video that way I can show everone what it looks like when it is apart.
Bizzy
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Old 03-21-2012, 12:07 AM
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Tonight

Good evening
Tonight after dinner I was in the workshop tinkering as usual. For the past few days I have been rebuilding my stator supports so that I can stack additional alternators onto my unit.
As I usually did after each part was fastened I did a breif test to make sure everything was running smoothly. At one point I must have moved a wire which acted as a spring at the switch. The results were astounding. I went from 2300 rpms to 2750 rpms while the alternator speed remained constant at 650 rpms.
This wire acted as a spring which forced the switch down faster so the reaction time of the switch was quicker, thus giving me more amps at the test motor.
This deserve further testing before I proceed.
Bizzy
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:33 PM
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Batteries versus Capacitors

Good morning
After quite a bit of testing and tweeking I took George's suggestion of the series capacitor and went one step further. I put two batteries in series at the alternator in place of the capacitors. The results were excellent.
Because capacitors charge and discharge differently than batteries, the alternator speed was only reduced by 50 rpms when the switch was engaged. The reason is that a capaitor charges and discharges quickier than a battery so it makes the alternator work harder, which slows the alternator down as I have shown on previous videos.
In addition I was now able to increase my test motor speed to 2900 rpms. I was able to sustain those speeds two hours until I deteced any type of volt/speed drop in the alternator.
Just running the test motor from the battery via the switch but not charging the battery with the alternaor, I would detect a reduction in battery voltage and test motor speed after 3 minutes.
This means if I can maintain such a high speed I will need fewer alternators to keep the batteries charges to run the main motor once I close the system.
I have a few more tests to run before I am able to go that far.
Bizzy
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:31 PM
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Bizzy

Your goal is to be able to charge batteries and self run. No reason why a couple more batteries in the system can not be there. If it makes it more efficient than caps then definitely do things this way.

George
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