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Inductive Resistor Open source development of highly efficient inductive resistor circuits.

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  #601  
Old 06-17-2010, 04:37 AM
witsend witsend is offline
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Gad - Bart, have heard nothing from either of you. Are we still on track here?
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  #602  
Old 06-17-2010, 08:15 AM
witsend witsend is offline
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Just as an update.

We are a couple of days away from getting our resistor wound. And we're looking to use a controller to generate the required waveform. This will obviate the need for a switch and give us better control of the options to tune to the required effect.

Also - we should be able to access the MOSFET - certainly by next week. I'll then post details of all these components - the resistor - the MOSFETs and the controller. Possibly a week thereafter - early July - we should be able to start our testing.

I'll post pictures of the components as and when I get them. NEARLY THERE GUYS.

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  #603  
Old 06-18-2010, 03:08 PM
gadh gadh is offline
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good progress

Hi all.
Finally i've managed to get a good heat results from the load resistor with only 1 battery - 45 degress (celsius). of course - using the self osc. mode with an average of 20-40mv across the shunt - as i got before (but with lower heat readings then). this will allow me to check the battery energy drain in a few hours (i hope), which will ease my further testings. what i plan to do is this:
1. check the battery real capacity for a few current (I) settings - 100ma, 200ma, 300ma - this is the range of the current that flows in the cicruit. i have a digital charger/discharger which can show me a quite accurate results.
Rose - i'm aware of your opinion that this direction of testing does not prove much - but its a start, since without it i would not know if my current (=present) circuit settings are the right ones for getting a net gain.
2. check the resistor heat as a function of DC power - in a simple dc circuit. this will allow me to roughly measure the actual power/energy i get by heating the load resistor and compare to the battery energy delivered untill it is fully drained (according to its specs)
3. after a successful proof that we have a net gain in the "battery drain" test - i will be able to test the accurate voltage across the shunt using a newer scope and a pc connection.

Gad
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  #604  
Old 06-18-2010, 03:22 PM
witsend witsend is offline
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Originally Posted by gadh View Post
Hi all.
Finally i've managed to get a good heat results from the load resistor with only 1 battery - 45 degress (celsius). of course - using the self osc. mode with an average of 20-40mv across the shunt - as i got before (but with lower heat readings then). this will allow me to check the battery energy drain in a few hours (i hope), which will ease my further testings. what i plan to do is this:
1. check the battery real capacity for a few current (I) settings - 100ma, 200ma, 300ma - this is the range of the current that flows in the cicruit. i have a digital charger/discharger which can show me a quite accurate results.
Rose - i'm aware of your opinion that this direction of testing does not prove much - but its a start, since without it i would not know if my current (=present) circuit settings are the right ones for getting a net gain.
2. check the resistor heat as a function of DC power - in a simple dc circuit. this will allow me to roughly measure the actual power/energy i get by heating the load resistor and compare to the battery energy delivered untill it is fully drained (according to its specs)
3. after a successful proof that we have a net gain in the "battery drain" test - i will be able to test the accurate voltage across the shunt using a newer scope and a pc connection.

Gad
Really good stuff Gad. I agree that early 'prelim' tests against battery draw downs are better than nothing. Ideally you need to run a control. But right now this looks really, really promising. Very well done indeed.

I know how tricky this end of the testing gets Gad - from bitter experience. It's the gruelling part of all testing. But it's well worth the efforts.

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  #605  
Old 06-19-2010, 02:02 PM
Ted Ewert Ted Ewert is offline
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I haven't read all the posts here, so I apologize if the following information is redundant. Nevertheless, I thought I would pass it along.
I posted my recovery circuit in another thread and Rosemary said it was essentially the same as what you guys are doing here. This makes sense because I'm getting a lot of heat generated in my circuit.
When I run the motor, the drive transistor remains cold. There is no heatsink on it and one transistor could easily run the whole motor. On the other hand, the recovery transistors get quite warm, hot actually, and they require not only a heatsink, but a fan to cool them. If a load is put on the motor, the recovery transistors get really hot.
I'm using two large, 30 amp IGBTs in the recovery circuits. The motor, even under load, only draws 200ma. The voltage is fairly high at 180 VDC, which accounts for some of the heat.
I reconfigured my coils from series to parallel yesterday and fried the recovery circuits. I'm going to have to redesign the circuits now to handle the extra heat.
This phenomenon flies in the face of standard EM theory. Not only does the circuit significantly reduce input current, but it generates gobs of extra heat! I'm trying to figure out a way to use this energy rather than waste it in heat, but for now it looks like I'm going to have to build a circuit for each of my 8 coils.
BTW, these are large, high inductance coils. They are wound with 24 awg wire and are around 85 ohms DC resistance with an iron core. They measure out at 3 Henrys! I have found that high voltage and fairly low current causes a lot more heat than the lower voltages. This is a subjective observation but generally accurate. Also, feeding the pulse straight back to the source, without the recovery circuit, draws a lot more current through the coil and produces much less heat in the recovery transistor. Everything seems backwards!
I don't know where all this energy is coming from. It's not coming from the magnets in the motor because it coincides with the current draw of the coil and not the speed of the rotor. It sounds sort of like what you guys are working on here so I thought it might be of interest.
Anyway, here is my schematic for reference. Most of the TVS diodes (D4, D5 and D6) are just used as protection and serve no other function. Only D3, the 68 volt one (I'm actually using 130 volt now), is used as a voltage reference.



Cheers,

Ted
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  #606  
Old 06-19-2010, 06:44 PM
gadh gadh is offline
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Hi Ted and thanks for sharing this information with us.
i miss some info here:
1. what is the purpose of this circuit ?
2. where is the motor in the circuit ?
3. do you claim to get COP >1 in your motor output as compared to the input power ?

thanks
Gad
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  #607  
Old 06-19-2010, 07:20 PM
witsend witsend is offline
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Hi Ted, this is the second time you've shown this circuit. I'm going to get the info to my colleague and will get back to you - hopefully tomorrow. I know nothing about motors and it needs some intelligent input.

Thanks for posting.
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  #608  
Old 06-19-2010, 08:03 PM
Ted Ewert Ted Ewert is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadh View Post
Hi Ted and thanks for sharing this information with us.
i miss some info here:
1. what is the purpose of this circuit ?
2. where is the motor in the circuit ?
3. do you claim to get COP >1 in your motor output as compared to the input power ?

thanks
Gad
The purpose of the circuit is primarily to drive a motor coil, and secondarily to recover the pulse collapse and recycle it back to the source supply. The coil in the schematic is one of the stator coils in the motor.
This circuit has been exhibiting some anomalous properties, which I partially discussed in another thread. However, the amount of heat generated by Q2 was so much compared to the input current that I thought I would mention it here again. Q2 heats up like a resistor instead of a high efficiency switch. It gets so hot I can smell it cooking after about 30 seconds of operation(this while Q1 is stone cold).
I thought since you guys are looking for ways to generate heat, this might give you some ideas. I don't want or need the heat, it's just a byproduct of the recovery circuit.
Here's my theory... The delay in conduction, caused by the zener, allows the pulse to build up voltage. This better matches the impedance of the coil and more power is transferred back through Q2. This is evidenced by the increased heating of Q2 as well as a decrease in input current. This is where it looks to me as though the coil is generating a little something "extra".
I don't know if you guys use an impedance matching strategy or not, but it's key to drawing this property from the coil (Bedini is always saying this too).
As far as COP goes, I haven't done enough testing yet to determine an accurate cop since my recovery circuits fried, but I plan on doing so once I get everything running again. Nevertheless, this circuit at least increases the COP significantly in the electrical part of the motor.

Cheers,

Ted
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  #609  
Old 06-20-2010, 02:13 PM
Ted Ewert Ted Ewert is offline
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I've been thinking about this heating issue with the recovery transistors and I think I know why they are getting so hot. Please refer to the waveform below. (waveform at the collector of Q1)

As you can see, the voltage level of the recovery pulse is a combination of the power supply voltage plus the recovery circuit zener voltage. This comes out to 310 volts in my case.
When the recovery transistor fires, it has 310 volts of potential being dumped into a capacitor with only 180 volts on it. The only resistance in the circuit is the internal resistance of the transistor junction, the wire and the impedance of the big P/S cap (zero for all intents). It's like shorting the collector and the emitter across 130 volts for the duration of the recovery pulse. Since the voltage is maintained for the duration of the recovery pulse, power developed across the transistor would be E(squared) / R, a rather large number.
The power delivered by the recovery pulse is a function of impedance matching. Impedance in this case being determined primarily by the value of the recovery zener and secondarily by the load. Impedance in this case is determined by E/I. By raising the discharge voltage with the zener, we effectively lower the current which better matches the impedance properties of the coil. Consequently more power is delivered during the pulse discharge.
I hope this is relevant to this thread. This concept can be a little confusing so Iím happy to answer any questions.
Itís just amazing to me that so much power can still be generated by the coil even after doing the work of turning the rotor. Thereís lots of potential here.

Cheers,

Ted
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  #610  
Old 06-30-2010, 08:27 AM
witsend witsend is offline
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Golly Gad, I had to rescue this from page 3. I'm sure the subject has NEVER sunk so LOW.

Is there an update here? I'd be very glad to learn of progress if any. My own update is that I still need to wait for that resistor. But I've now been assured that it will be with me before the end of the week.

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  #611  
Old 06-30-2010, 10:51 AM
gadh gadh is offline
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i'm still at stages 1+2 in my tests (see my last post).
measuring battery capacity: 4.5AH factory - i measured 4.8-5.8 AH (depend on charger used).

heat tests - while in the Ainslie circuit i reached up to 45 celsius using only 1 12v battery, in a simple DC circuit i used up to 450ma and reached up to 38 celsius only.

now continuing to test the heat, then will test the circuit and try to drain the battery and also using a calorimeter. all these test take time...

Gad
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  #612  
Old 06-30-2010, 11:53 AM
witsend witsend is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadh View Post
i'm still at stages 1+2 in my tests (see my last post).
measuring battery capacity: 4.5AH factory - i measured 4.8-5.8 AH (depend on charger used).

heat tests - while in the Ainslie circuit i reached up to 45 celsius using only 1 12v battery, in a simple DC circuit i used up to 450ma and reached up to 38 celsius only.

now continuing to test the heat, then will test the circuit and try to drain the battery and also using a calorimeter. all these test take time...

Gad
WOW. Looking good Gad. And well done. You're long suffering doing those battery draw downs.
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  #613  
Old 07-02-2010, 01:18 PM
witsend witsend is offline
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guys. I'll explain more when I get back here to edit. AT LAST. Here's the FIRST RESISTOR.



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  #614  
Old 07-04-2010, 02:05 AM
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ashtweth ashtweth is offline
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Thanks Rose, looks Good. And thanks Gad for the report, we are still going on waiting for the circuit to be picked up and scopes posted, should be in the next few weeks.
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  #615  
Old 07-06-2010, 03:24 PM
witsend witsend is offline
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Originally Posted by ashtweth View Post
Thanks Rose, looks Good. And thanks Gad for the report, we are still going on waiting for the circuit to be picked up and scopes posted, should be in the next few weeks.

Hi Ash. We're getting one more resistor wound for Friday - and from Monday should be on campus to start our prelim set ups. Hope there's no further glitches. This thing has been FRAUGHT. I also hope you don't go through the same problems related to unnecessary 'attack' with your own tests. But I realise now that the greater the 'problems' the better the technology. So take heart if you do.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS ASHTWETH. LOL.
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  #616  
Old 09-05-2010, 09:13 AM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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closing this thread

I moved these COP 17 threads to this Inductive Resistor subforum
for the purposes of maintaining all the history in one place of the
Rosemary Ainslie projects and other projects that were inspired in
one way or another by them.

I'm closing this thread and it will remain here as a historical archive
as well as the original Part 1 thread.

Please keep all discussions on these circuits and related in this
Inductive Resistor subforum.

I also brought Rosemary Ainslie's Magnetic Field Model thread to
this subforum since it is related. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing
with her model - I'm posting it here for the record and will also
close that thread to maintain it for an archive.

Anyone is free to start a thread here on any of these topics,
but please don't start one unless it is necessary. Find a thread
that most closely matches your topic and post it there.
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