Energetic Forum  
Facebook Twitter Google+ Pinterest LinkedIn Delicious Digg Reddit WordPress StumbleUpon Tumblr Translate Addthis Aaron Murakami YouTube ONLY 13% OF SEATS AVAILABLE!!!*** 2017 ENERGY CONFERENCE ***


* NEW * BEDINI RPX BOOK & DVD SET: BEDINI RPX


Go Back   Energetic Forum > > >
   

Inductive Resistor Open source development of highly efficient inductive resistor circuits.

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #1921  
Old 08-10-2009, 05:12 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,561
another quantum circuit video test

Another short vid showing the oscillation effect on screen up close.
It doesn't settle at zero - ALWAYS LOOK FOR THIS. Zoom in enough to verify it is not settling at zero. If you have that and there is no space from one pulse/spike to the next, then you have the real oscillation necessary for this circuit to show the biggest gains.

YouTube - Quantum Circuit 555 test on Rosemary Ainslie COP 17 Heater Circuit
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

Download SOLAR SECRETS by Peter Lindemann
Free - Get it now: Solar Secrets

  #1922  
Old 08-10-2009, 05:43 PM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Hi Michael,

You mentioned the water heater elements are actually inductive resistors. I never knew that. I thought they were some straight resistive element.

It that the case in the states? Are all the elements simply inductive resistors?

If so, that explains a lot!

If it is operating at 60Hz for example at 220v, then it probably has horrible power factor and simply correcting with the right capacitor will probably drastically increase the efficiency.

My tank probably uses 3500 range when it is on. By simple power factor correction, it will probably only use 2500.

I always thought they were 100% efficient at making heat because I thought it was some straight non-inductive heating element.
Hi Aaron, just seen the post.

Here in Spain they use a lot of inductive resistive heating elements, they are a spiral wound on a ceramic former and this slips inside an iron tube which is glass lined. This is so you do not have to drain the tank to change the element. These elements are very inductive. The other element I had was a British element and is resistive, we cut a hole in the tank along side the other file pocket and welded a screw flange to accomodate the element. It was pointed out at the time that we probably have quite a large capacitance between the elements as they are so close!!!!!!!!

The rest is as I have explained, we are switching the inductive element on and off using an IC, not 555, and also the same is switching on the resistive element only when the inductive element switches off, and in doing so absorbs the bemf of the coil and heats up. The resistive element only sees the bemf, it does not see the mains supply. Further tests will be coming at the end of the month as to what is actually going on, but it is very interresting and I think more than one effect is taking place. The first thing I think is that the bemf is totally free.

Inductive element 1.5kw
Resistive element 1.5kw
Duty on inductive 30%
Duty on resistive 70%
Reduction in power consumption over base line of direct power to inductive element only= 39% over same time period and temp: differencial

Any thoughts anyone?

Mike
__________________
 
  #1923  
Old 08-10-2009, 06:22 PM
Peter Lindemann Peter Lindemann is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Liberty Lake, Washington
Posts: 1,191
Fantastic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
Hi Aaron, just seen the post.

Here in Spain they use a lot of inductive resistive heating elements, they are a spiral wound on a ceramic former and this slips inside an iron tube which is glass lined. This is so you do not have to drain the tank to change the element. These elements are very inductive. The other element I had was a British element and is resistive, we cut a hole in the tank along side the other file pocket and welded a screw flange to accomodate the element. It was pointed out at the time that we probably have quite a large capacitance between the elements as they are so close!!!!!!!!

The rest is as I have explained, we are switching the inductive element on and off using an IC, not 555, and also the same is switching on the resistive element only when the inductive element switches off, and in doing so absorbs the bemf of the coil and heats up. The resistive element only sees the bemf, it does not see the mains supply. Further tests will be coming at the end of the month as to what is actually going on, but it is very interresting and I think more than one effect is taking place. The first thing I think is that the bemf is totally free.

Inductive element 1.5kw
Resistive element 1.5kw
Duty on inductive 30%
Duty on resistive 70%
Reduction in power consumption over base line of direct power to inductive element only= 39% over same time period and temp: differencial

Any thoughts anyone?

Mike
Mike,

This is fantastic!!! My only thought is to start a new thread to discuss your "industrial scale water heater" so this thread can continue to focus on the replications of Rosemary's original circuits. What you are doing is what I have wanted to start exploring!!!

Peter
__________________
 
  #1924  
Old 08-10-2009, 08:42 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,561
quantum schematic update

Thanks Harvey,

Here is another update of the schematic.

All I did was just reduce the 1.5k resistor I had down to 110 ohms
and it gives me every range that is needed for duty cycle and
frequency.

Anyway everyone, this might be the final circuit that seems to
deliver the exact ranges needed. It is final for now at least. lol

__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

  #1925  
Old 08-10-2009, 09:06 PM
Joit Joit is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,992

I will rebuild this Timer Circuit too, right now i did build up 3, but they are handy anyway, nothing wrong, to get one more or less.

But i think i will replace the Cap with an adjustable one, for any case.
But need to order few more 555chips, a few PG50, because i buried again one, and couple fast Diodes.
Conrad got the irfpg50 too, but i guess i need 5000 Volt Transistor, to be safe.

witsend, yes, that was, what i did mean
>>I agree that the heat is a function of the current.

It more or less the current, what is moving through, or even 'something'.
Just thinking about, when you got thicker Wires, you can push a lot more Amps through.
__________________
Theorizer are like High Voltage. A lot hot Air with no Power behind but they are the dead of applied Work and Ideas.
  #1926  
Old 08-10-2009, 09:09 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,561
schematic clean up

Update on schematic - I didn't change anything but I cleaned
up the schematic near the filter cap because
it was kind of jumbled there as well as some of
the connection.

I also re-labeled the 555 so it is easier for anyone to see
the what is what.

__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

  #1927  
Old 08-10-2009, 09:27 PM
Harvey's Avatar
Harvey Harvey is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,137
Hi Aaron,
The problem with that reduction is when the pot is zeroed out and the 555 is in the discharge state, you are dropping 12V across that 110 Ohm resistor through the chip. That is why I moved the discharge wire to the other side of the fixed resistor and increased it back to 1K.

Cheers,

__________________
 

Last edited by Harvey; 08-10-2009 at 09:28 PM. Reason: fixed resistor should be about 1k
  #1928  
Old 08-10-2009, 10:44 PM
witsend witsend is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael John Nunnerley View Post
Hi Aaron, just seen the post.

Here in Spain they use a lot of inductive resistive heating elements, they are a spiral wound on a ceramic former and this slips inside an iron tube which is glass lined. This is so you do not have to drain the tank to change the element. These elements are very inductive. The other element I had was a British element and is resistive, we cut a hole in the tank along side the other file pocket and welded a screw flange to accomodate the element. It was pointed out at the time that we probably have quite a large capacitance between the elements as they are so close!!!!!!!!

The rest is as I have explained, we are switching the inductive element on and off using an IC, not 555, and also the same is switching on the resistive element only when the inductive element switches off, and in doing so absorbs the bemf of the coil and heats up. The resistive element only sees the bemf, it does not see the mains supply. Further tests will be coming at the end of the month as to what is actually going on, but it is very interresting and I think more than one effect is taking place. The first thing I think is that the bemf is totally free.

Inductive element 1.5kw
Resistive element 1.5kw
Duty on inductive 30%
Duty on resistive 70%
Reduction in power consumption over base line of direct power to inductive element only= 39% over same time period and temp: differencial

Any thoughts anyone?

Mike
Mike - actually I'm very interested in this. that's such an elegant solution letting the one element take the counter electromotive force from the other. But I can't understand why it isn't done at a 50/50 split? Are the two resistors so different? But I think this is really clever. Well done. I'd give my eye teeth to know how you switched the current at those high voltages? We tested utility power but through a variac. Again our best results were at resonating frequencies - but the noise was way too high. Needs some expensive muffling. Have you considered putting in a third resistor? Just see if it'll pick up the energy from the other two. It would have some interesting field effects. A sort of transformer principle. Never tested this - but would be curious to know. In any event. Well done. I'm definitely in the market when you've got production lines going.
__________________
 
  #1929  
Old 08-11-2009, 12:28 AM
Joit Joit is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,992
@Harvey
Me think, the Chip is pretty stable, i give it hope.
there are other Circuits and Examples, where lesser Resistors are used.
Below is an internal Circuit too, i think, it does handle it.
And the Timer itself dont take much Power, as what i ve seen.
__________________
Theorizer are like High Voltage. A lot hot Air with no Power behind but they are the dead of applied Work and Ideas.
  #1930  
Old 08-11-2009, 04:33 AM
Joit Joit is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,992
OMGOMG OH-MY-GOD This Nightwatchman cant even calculate Farads.
0.001MicroFarad are 1 Nanofarad, NOT 1000! 1000 = PICOFarad!
Hardly to believe, he did even did do one Grade in Electronics.

But well, its anyway not the first time, that he is wrong


But the Quantum Article has a Mistake there too, at the Picture it is 0,0033µF
but at the table it says 33nF.
The other Caps are 0,01µF and 0.047µF, like at the Parts table.
I think for the last Circuit postet here, it should be a 0,01µF or 10 nF, too?
The Stamp for it is 101.
__________________
Theorizer are like High Voltage. A lot hot Air with no Power behind but they are the dead of applied Work and Ideas.
  #1931  
Old 08-11-2009, 05:31 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,561
555 circuit

Interesting Joit!



Seems on the diagram, the 0.0033uf cap should be labeled
0.033uf.

However, I would think this would slow down the circuit
or make the duty cycle even bigger? Running test now so I
can't try it.

Anyway, the most recent schematic I posted does
what we need.

@Harvey, I saw your post on giving 12v straight to the chip.
The 555 runs at 85F or so, so I guess as long as it is only that -
just slightly warm, that it should be ok for now.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

  #1932  
Old 08-11-2009, 09:18 AM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by witsend View Post
Mike - actually I'm very interested in this. that's such an elegant solution letting the one element take the counter electromotive force from the other. But I can't understand why it isn't done at a 50/50 split? Are the two resistors so different? But I think this is really clever. Well done. I'd give my eye teeth to know how you switched the current at those high voltages? We tested utility power but through a variac. Again our best results were at resonating frequencies - but the noise was way too high. Needs some expensive muffling. Have you considered putting in a third resistor? Just see if it'll pick up the energy from the other two. It would have some interesting field effects. A sort of transformer principle. Never tested this - but would be curious to know. In any event. Well done. I'm definitely in the market when you've got production lines going.
Hi Rose

We are using Triacs as the switch, they will handle good current. There are two, one for the on time of the inductive element and the other switches on when the other switches off and discharges the inductive element, bemf, to the resistive element.

As far as the duty cycle, the lowest we could get it was 30% which I am told is a problem of the triacs being used, and yes I think that it would work equally well at 50% or even at 60%, the latter probably the most efficient if you think about the power % reduction, well that is what I am thinking at the moment.

Noise is not much of a problem at the moment, yes there is a high pitch whine but it is barely noticable. The triacs are on a heat sink and they are just warm, they are able to handle 20amps as we use them for switching compressor motors on heat pumps. Don't ask me the number as they have come from Toshiba as part of a computorised switching device on air conditioning for a hotel, but any high rating triac will do, it is only a switch which will pass DC or AC but only in one direction.

The heating elements are both rated at 1.5kw but the inductive element is made as a coil, a spiral wire wound around a ceramic former a bit like the very old electric fires which had a reflector dish with the coil in the middle, us older ones will remember them the other is a common copper rod with a resistive wire running through the middle, quite different.

@Peter, yes I agree with you it would be better in another thread, the problem is untill my ee friend is back the first week in september, I am a bit out on a limb as far as being VERY technical in electronics, but I will give it a go

Mike
__________________
 
  #1933  
Old 08-11-2009, 09:36 AM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,191
Two Element Bemf

New thread set up, TWO ELEMENT BEMF, all are welcome and I need ideas as to what is happening.

Mike
__________________
 
  #1934  
Old 08-11-2009, 10:17 AM
witsend witsend is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,881
H Mike

If I had to configure an ideal element here I'd have two of the curly wounds? with a third resistor between them. The third resistor with no wire connections and going straight into the water for faster conduction. Just a long thing. All the way through the cylider. Can't get over that there's something that can switch. a Triac? But from the sounds of it it's not fast. I wish MOSFET manufactures would make heavy duty numbers. Then we'd get the benefit of faster frequencies. I shall definitely be watching your thread.

edit BY THE WAY - We made our own resistors here with wire as thick as a shoelaces. Amazing resonance. I actually think that the third resistor would soak up some of that sound we produced. Anyway that was still 10 years ago when I was keen on experimenting. Now I'd sooner die than measure another resistor. But I'll tell you what. We were boiling water quick and cheap.
__________________
 

Last edited by witsend; 08-11-2009 at 10:31 AM. Reason: another point
  #1935  
Old 08-11-2009, 11:25 AM
witsend witsend is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,881
Guys - this is my last post on this thread. I'm afraid I'm not able to withstand the 'death by a thousand cuts' that's been my unfortunate diet from TK et al. Quite apart from which there's now such serious invasion of all my means of communication that it's best that I desist. It's just too tedious to deal with.

But I think all that I've done is to point to yet another use of this energy. And I do think it's sourced from magnetic fields. Nothing to do with electrons that I can see - albeit this may be counter mainstream.

The thing is that this energy can be liberated through fire, electricity or simply through resonance. All the new developments into switching are actually only exploring resonance. And, in my humble opinion, this is will become a kind of art form. Just remember this analogy. Your average radio station can beam out signals at a given strength and can be listened to by 1 person or millions. Does not drain more energy from the source.

The other thing - it can also become dangerous if it's used to power at a distance. The fields are everywhere. Better to simply put energy back to the grid where possible until there's some way found of generating power with magnet on magnet interactions. It's probably the only safe way to do it. Else we'll be 'fried from a distance'. God forbid the military use this. There's just so much FE just everywhere.

Then too. The trick is in resonance - and it's best to let the system tell you what resonance. Don't impose a duty cycle. Just watch the ratios of battey draw down to power out. I think Aaron will be giving guides here.

And yes. I think that we're seeing the dawning of something really interesting. Let's hope we're equal to it's potential. Good luck with tests - for those that are testing. I'm going to bunker down for a bit. Many thanks to all those who gave me support and all those who are 'pressing on pressing on'. And Luc - don't stop with your tests. You need to check the draw down rate at your battery terminals. I think you've got gains there. And Joit. What can I say? Always my best posts. I hope we'll get Hoppy back to the fold.

I'll be watching this development with great interest.
__________________
 

Last edited by witsend; 08-12-2009 at 07:54 AM. Reason: correction
  #1936  
Old 08-11-2009, 01:30 PM
Mark Mark is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 796
Rosemary, I hope your not serious! Your last post on this thread? Please don't give TK that power over you.

We will all be sad to see you go. Let me give you a little advice. Quit going over to Overunity.com! Don't let your curiosity of TK's nonsense get the best of you. I understand how you feel but don't let him win. Just don't read his debunking thread!

I hope you reconsider and we hear from you soon.

My best to you
Mark
__________________
 
  #1937  
Old 08-11-2009, 01:36 PM
Michael John Nunnerley's Avatar
Michael John Nunnerley Michael John Nunnerley is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by witsend View Post
Guys - this is my last post on this thread. I'm afraid I'm not able to withstand the 'death by a thousand cuts' that's been my unfortunate diet from TK et al. Quite apart from which there's now such serious invasion of all my means of communication that it's best that I desist. It's just too tedious to deal with.

But I think all that I've done is to point to yet another use of this energy. And I do think it's sourced from magnetic fields. Nothing to do with electrons that I can see - albeit this may be counter mainstream.

The thing is that this energy can be liberated through fire, electricity or simply through resonance. All the new developments into switching are actually only exploring resonance. And, in my humble opinion, this is will become a kind of art form. Just remember this analogy. Your average radio station can beam out signals at a given strength and can be listened to by 1 person or millions. Does not drain more energy from the source.

The other thing - it can also become dangerous if it's used to power at a distance. The fields are everywhere. Better to simply put energy back to the grid where possible until there's some way found of generating power with magnet on magnet interactions. It's probably the only safe way to do it. Else we'll be 'fried from a distance'. God forbid the military use this. There's just so much FE just everywhere.

Then too. The trick is in resonance - and it's best to let the system tell you what resonance. Don't impose a duty cycle. Just watch the ratios of battey draw down to power out. I think Aaron will be giving guides here.

And yes. I think that we're seeing the dawning of something really interesting. Let's hope we're equal to it's potential. Good luck with tests - for those that are testing. I'm going to bunker down for a bit. Many thanks to all those who gave me support and all those who are 'pressing on pressing on'. And Luc - don't stop with your tests. You need to check the draw down rate at your battery terminals. I think you've got gains there. And Joit. What can I say? Always my best posts. I hope we'll get Hoppy back to the fold.

I'll be watching this development with great interest.
Rose I think you are right, resonance in one form or other, rules the world, when I say rules the world, THINK ABOUT IT IN A BROAD WAY, even arguement is a type of resonance, it keeps coming back!!!!!!!!!

You are welcome on the thread I have set up and you know we can communicate by other means, the problem for me in august is family commitments so my time is a bit thin on the ground.

Peter knows what I specialise in and have kept a bit low key due to hasel.

Free energy is there, it is all around us, it is just finding, usually by accident, as in many cases as the current learning in the taught form is so dominating and tunnel feed.

Speak to you soon

Mike
__________________
 
  #1938  
Old 08-11-2009, 06:43 PM
Joit Joit is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,992
Aaron i did try now a adjustable Pot there, rated at 50pF i think,
Anyhow, i cant measure it well, its a old one, but i think, i did buy it once for 50pf, what i did remember.
It gives a very small Duty cycle, and a frequency at 2500-20khz
Still not the best for now, and i only did few small Tests with a fast build.
But otherwise, i dont find a lot 3,3nF rated Caps, maybe film capacitors,
so i am guessing, they been 33nF.
And that is still a big different between my 30pf and a 33nF.


witsend. Lol, what shall i say, maybe i did see it coming?
Maybe its another lession for you, for, what we dont need in Life, but get anyway.
Dont feel hurted, its anyhow normal, when Opinions hit at eachother, that it goes easy personally.
And it doesnt mean, when one thinks, he can easly disproove it, that others will stop and still do belive at the Idea and do progress.
I did see this Flames so often anywhere at the Internet around, but i learned, just to simple dont care about this Guys,
its her Problem, when they cant find anything or cannot fix it and maybe just picking at Typos in Lines, to moan about 100?Pages long.
Action replaces 1000 Words.
Internet is a weird place for that anyway, because this viritually World is kind different for anyone.

But anyway, when All would only listen to conventional Theories, such Forums like here or OU.com would not exist.
And they surely not still exist, because all Peoples there are stupid, or have lack of Electronics, or only believe at Miracles.
but its easy for the Debunker to disproove most Things, otherwise, the OU Prize would have been taken few Times.
But if you compare all the Theories outside, then there Statements look plain pretty ridicoulus.
Quantumtheory is even not conform with theory of relativity.

Someone dropped today a Link for Grand Unified Field Theory from Nassim Haramein.

Its something for long evenings, i made it till part 10. but very interesting.



Edit- Err yes, now, the low Cap gives a long Duty Cycle. lol.
__________________
Theorizer are like High Voltage. A lot hot Air with no Power behind but they are the dead of applied Work and Ideas.

Last edited by Joit; 08-11-2009 at 07:13 PM.
  #1939  
Old 08-11-2009, 09:05 PM
gotoluc gotoluc is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by witsend View Post
Guys - this is my last post on this thread.

And Luc - don't stop with your tests. You need to check the draw down rate at your battery terminals. I think you've got gains there.

I'll be watching this development with great interest.
Thank you Rosemary for your amazing participation to date

It is very rare to get the one who has made a discovery to participate as you have

I understand how difficult it can be to have all the different dynamics that have been going on here and elsewhere on ones mind.

To everyone:


When someone freely offers an experiment and report that shows to go against the established EE understanding, it should be understood that real physical and flexible experiments are needed for one to be able to investigate all possibilities. Even if one fails ... who is at fault ... you would be best to withdraw yourself! ... then to criticize your failure

Thank you Rosemary for your amazing support

and to All

Luc
__________________
 

Last edited by gotoluc; 08-11-2009 at 09:36 PM.
  #1940  
Old 08-11-2009, 09:47 PM
Harvey's Avatar
Harvey Harvey is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,137
Haven't ordered the parts yet.

Have been playing around with the cheap Falstad Circuit Simulator (fun little program, but not near as accurate as the Spice simulator built into my Protel Program)

At any rate, I wanted to demonstrate what the power looked like on a charged inductor that suddenly loses all of the paths for energy flow. At the beginning of the charge cycle we have a large electric field across the inductor, but as it charges that field diminishes and becomes traded for a magnetic field and eventually the voltage across the inductor drops to a minimum. Falstad aknowledges that his mathematical model cannot handle pure inductors and must be modeled with a resistance. But it evidently cannot handle the real world situation of a charged inductor that suddenly has nowhere for the energy to go either - it errors out with a convergence error. So, I decided to fix the problem by setting up an LCR tank and evaluating the power involved in the ringdown. Poynt99 and Miles High can no doubt do a much better job at modeling this and providing the mathematical explanation of the power envelope.

The following pics represent snapshots during a single charge / discharge cycle of 400ms. I charged the LCR circuit for 200ms and then alllowed it to ringdown for 200ms. Each pic has a scope readout as follows:
Left: Voltage (green) across and Current (yellow) through the inductor only
Middle: Power for the Inductor Only
Right: Current for the 250 milliohm resistor.

The number in the top left of each readout is the maximum for that view. I do not have a number for the inductor current, but we do have the voltage and power, so the current could be calculated. This really is just a graphical over view anyway.

50ms into the charge cycle:
Larger Pic

199ms into charge cycle, just before opening the switches:
(Note that the inductor current cannot exceed the 250 milliohm series resistor current)
Larger Pic

291ms into the overall cycle, 91ms into the discharge cycle:
(Note the current shelf for the 250 milliohm resistor when the ringing begins, and the 468 Watts of ringdown power during this period)
Larger Pic

403ms - End of Cycle - Simulator Stopped:
Larger Pic

Notwithstanding the initial 1.8A capacitor current spike, if we were to take the 800ma of current as a flat line (worst case scenario) and multiply it by the source voltage (striked power here- thx TK) for the 200ms duration we find that we draw 3.84 Watt Seconds out of our source. Now, if we evaluate loosely, the inductor power from 468 Watts down to zero (which it didn't quite reach) over the next 200ms, we end up with 33.08 Watt Seconds. [(468 / 2) *.707 * 0.2]

Where does the apparent gain come from?
__________________
 

Last edited by Harvey; 08-12-2009 at 10:10 AM. Reason: Should multiply voltage, not power
  #1941  
Old 08-12-2009, 10:29 AM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,561
test data logging sheet

Hi Everyone,

Here is an Excel spreadsheet data sheet (blank) anyone can use to record their basic info.

Ainslie circuit data log sheet (xls format)

If you don't have a spreadsheet program, you can just print this graphic:

Any ideas of anything that should be on there?
The storage scope will be logging the other data.

__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

  #1942  
Old 08-12-2009, 11:22 AM
eastcoastwilly eastcoastwilly is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 31
Everyone can download OpenOffice 3 it's one of the best pieces of software available on the net with almost flawless compatibility with the commercial Office Suites. It might be a tad slow but is quite awesome.

OpenOffice 3
__________________
 
  #1943  
Old 08-12-2009, 04:48 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,561
spreadsheet

Thanks EastCoastWilly,

That's exactly what I use on my laptop! Works perfect for me.

As a general note to everyone, I included the shunt dc voltage as well as the load RMS (measuring directly across the load - NOT using the common ground). You can simply record these and see what, if any, correlation there is to the actual outcome of draw down tests between experiment and control.
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

  #1944  
Old 08-12-2009, 05:14 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,561
Tektronix TDS 3054C

Thank you Tektronix and Lisa for letting us use your equipment for our tests! Amazing that you (Lisa) went to high school 15 minutes from my house. Synchronicity at its finest!

Here is a picture of this incredible machine. We'll only be using a fraction of the capability but at least we can say we're using one of the finest pieces of measuring equipment in the industry so our data will be rock solid!

Model: Tektronix TDS 3054C (click for details on the specs)

TDS3054C 500 MHz 5.0 GS/s 10 k 4


Features

Benefits

Digital real-time sampling Accurately capture signals with at least 5x oversampling. Digital phosphor display Quickly capture and visualize glitches and infrequent events with a high waveform capture rate and intensity-graded display. Advanced triggering Capture digital signal anomalies with runt, glitch, rise/fall-time, and setup/hold violation triggers. Dedicated front-panel controls Spend less time learning and more time on the task at hand with front-panel controls. Front-panel USB host port Quickly store and transfer your waveforms. PC connectivity Simply transfer, analyze and document results with NI LabVIEW SignalExpress™ TE and Tektronix OpenChoice® Desktop software. Just 5.9 inches (149 mm) deep Free up valuable bench space. Battery pack (optional) Work where you need to with up to three hours of portable battery operation. Application modules (optional) Transform your oscilloscope into a specialized instrument for limit testing, telecom mask testing, and video troubleshooting.-------------------------

Oscilloscope Selection Chart
Oscilloscope selection made easy. Use this quick reference chart to learn and compare the key specifications of Tektronix oscilloscopes, ranging from 100 MHz to 1 GHz bandwidth.
Improve Benchtop Test Productivity with NI LabVIEW SignalExpress™ TE and Tektronix Instrumentation Webinar
Tektronix and National Instruments have teamed together to provide you some tips and tools for simplifying signal acquisition, test setup and analysis with easy-to-use software. Demos include: USB plug-n-play connectivity, one-click data logging, real-time analysis and project documentation.
Pocket Guide to Digital Storage Oscilloscopes
This pocket-sized guide explains fundamental test and measurement concepts, including how an oscilloscope works and tips for capturing your signal.
View All Application Notes
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami

  #1945  
Old 08-12-2009, 05:35 PM
Aaron's Avatar
Aaron Aaron is offline
Co-Founder & Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 10,561
Thumbs up battery gets recharged

Ok everyone, finally with the Tektronix, I can see good detail that I couldn't see clearly before. Here is a shot of one single pulse scoping directly across the battery.



What do you see? The battery voltage is at 25.00 volts (pretty close).

The dip in the 25v battery voltage line is the drop in voltage when the mosfet switches on and this is expected of course.

Then, when the mosfet switches off, the inductive spike goes through the roof and pushes this battery bank to over 40 volts on that pulse. And this is WITHOUT the fly back didoe across the load. The top of the screen is 40 volts at this range and it is OFF THE CHART. I have gotten over 55 volt pulses to the battery (the voltage the battery actually sees).

Anyone with experience on all the radiant chargers knows EXACTLY the significance of this! This takes a SERIOUS CURRENT PUNCH to do this. Actually, this is the first time I have seen the battery get punched to these levels - TWICE the battery voltage?

Now, that is the voltage that the pulse drops down to when it hits the battery. From 24 volts in, the inductive spikes are actually over 800 volts! That is OVER 30 times the input voltage! It can be clearly seen across the load.

And then you see the ringdown and most of it is getting the battery to get punched above the battery voltage meaning the battery is absolutely getting hit with some good punches!

I think it is clear that any claims that the spike can't get to the battery and that the spike is insignificant, etc... are all completely laughable at this point. I already saw this on drawdown tests but this is just icing on the cake.

And, we haven't even gotten to the oscillations yet...
__________________
Sincerely,
Aaron Murakami


Last edited by Aaron; 08-12-2009 at 05:39 PM.
  #1946  
Old 08-12-2009, 06:14 PM
Joit Joit is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,992
Hi,
that looks indeed good, and maybe, it helps someone, to get a logic.

Unfortunatly, this here is not the Area of Expertise from this 'Experts' what we did got here,
Therefor the Judgement they did and do is worth NOTHING.
And i think at last, someone else need to do a Estimation, but,
even to calculate produced Heat at certain Circumstances seems is a Problem in this incredible Science we got right now.
__________________
Theorizer are like High Voltage. A lot hot Air with no Power behind but they are the dead of applied Work and Ideas.
  #1947  
Old 08-12-2009, 06:42 PM
poynt99 poynt99 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
Haven't ordered the parts yet.

Have been playing around with the cheap Falstad Circuit Simulator (fun little program, but not near as accurate as the Spice simulator built into my Protel Program).
Stop playing with the Falstad toy and use a real simulator (nice oxymoron ).

Quote:
Where does the apparent gain come from?
It comes from one or more of the following:

1) mis-interpretation
2) mis-calculation
3) mis-use
4) program error

I did a similar test with the same values, and all the input and output Joules cancel as expected. Will post shots if requested.

.99
__________________
 

Last edited by poynt99; 08-12-2009 at 06:57 PM.
  #1948  
Old 08-12-2009, 07:23 PM
Joit Joit is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,992
Quote:
Originally Posted by poynt99 View Post
Stop playing with the Falstad toy and use a real simulator (nice oxymoron ).



It comes from one or more of the following:

1) mis-interpretation
2) mis-calculation
3) mis-use
4) program error

I did a similar test with the same values, and all the input and output Joules cancel as expected. Will post shots if requested.

.99

Or a Program Error in your Non-OU-Proof secure Program?

But when calculations come from TK, then i am sure, they are mis-calculated.
__________________
Theorizer are like High Voltage. A lot hot Air with no Power behind but they are the dead of applied Work and Ideas.
  #1949  
Old 08-12-2009, 07:38 PM
Harvey's Avatar
Harvey Harvey is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,137
Hi Poynt99,

Yes, I am interested in your results, specifically all the energy flowing through the upper ideal switch compared to the power dissipated in the inductor only.

I would like to consider an inductive tungsten filament as the inductor - you should be able to model that as a single device with a parallel resonant cap across it. The desired target resonant frequency should be 448KHz (ring frequency) and the charge / discharge time set for maximum magnetic saturation of the filament.

The result should be an extremely efficient incandescent light source where the majority of the energy is converted to upper frequency light and very little is converted to heat.

I've sort of leap-frogged here straight to a market item based on the Ainslie Theory - whether or not a real device exceeds the expected projections in efficiency would be a clue as to whether her theory has validity or not.

__________________
 
  #1950  
Old 08-12-2009, 07:57 PM
poynt99 poynt99 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joit View Post
Or a Program Error in your Non-OU-Proof secure Program?
Joit,

Somehow I doubt Falstad's simulator was purposely programed to show OU. Therefore, ALL simulators should be OU-proof. Now you know.

.99
__________________
 
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Please consider supporting Energetic Forum with a voluntary monthly subscription.

For One-Time Donations, use admin@ this domain > energeticforum.com

Choose your voluntary subscription

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v1.4.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2007-2015 Copyright - Energetic Forum - All Rights Reserved

Bedini RPX Sideband Generator

Tesla Chargers