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Health, Fitness & Nutrition Discussion on physical health, healthy eating, qigong, yoga, tai chi, other exercise methods, and more.

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Old 03-16-2009, 12:54 PM
Vortex Vortex is offline
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Animals don't have heart attacks, Why?

I checked around and I couldn't info that animals have "natural" heart attacks.

I am constantly amazed by how much of the past I still do not know.
(probably old news for most, gotta be someone else like me out there)

In this video Holt speaks about tying off a coronary artery to induce a heart attack in a dog.
They did 3 surgeries, tying off a new artery each time for a total of 3 arteries.
I'll give them an E for effort and a Holy Smokes they failed to give the dog a heart attack
Creating a Heart Attack- An Animal Study Dr. David Holt from mercola
I like Dr. Holt

Heart Attack in Dogs : "...cases of coronary artery disease that have been defined in dogs were
associated with hormonal imbalances, such as hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid gland). ...
A heart attack is actually a very unlikely cause."

I understand the mind, etc has the biggest influence in health but health
for most mortals (that's me ) isn't a 100% mental activity


I brought this topic up to ask about what you guys thought about what
Matthias Rath, M.D. had to say in his 74 page book "10 Years That Changed Medicine Forever"

Rath addresses these issues:
  • Why animals don't get heart attacks, but among people it is the number one killer?
  • Why do people get infarctions in the coronary arteries of the heart and
    heart attacks - but we don’t have nose attacks, ear attacks or infarctions in most other parts of the body?
  • Why do animals with generally high levels of cholesterol
    in the blood not get heart attacks?
  • The bear and other animals that sleep during winter time have cholesterol
    levels of 600 mg/dl and higher.
    Why are they not extinct from a heart attack epidemic?

It turns out the American Heart Association in 1998 accepted the fact
that Lipoprotein(a) (also called Lp(a)) is a risk factor.

Rath puts the horse ( Lipoprotein(a)) before the cart (bad cholesterol)
and states Lipoprotein(a) is required to make the bad cholesterol ... be Bad.

"lipoprotein(a) was only found in humans and other species that had lost the
ability to manufacture their own vitamin C"

I looked at my cat food, nope, I'm not being sold vitamin C in the cat food.

Rath worked with Linus Pauling using a code language to keep their research of vitamin C a SECRET.
Linus Pauling has received the Nobel Prize in Chemistry, Nobel Peace Prize and
the Lenin Peace Prize to name only a FEW of his many Honors and awards.

Research showed: "... developed the same deposits in the artery walls that
caused heart attacks and strokes in human beings. ... Most importantly, this
striking difference was not obtained by adding cholesterol or fat to the diet
but by omitting one single factor from the diet /Vitamin C. ...
almost every scientific explanation for heart disease that had existed
since the beginning of time.
" POOF up in SMOKE

Direct link between the prevention of scurvy where it was clear that vitamin C
would stabilize the artery wall and therefore also protect it against the
damages associated with cardiovascular disease.

"... editor in chief of National Academy of Sciences changed his mind.
Against all rules of the academy, he decided to send the manuscript
submitted by Linus Pauling to reviewers. They rejected the publication of this
landmark paper with the argument: "Since there is no puzzle of cardiovascular
disease, there can be no solution to this puzzle."

The Dr. Rath Health Foundation | Responsibility for a healthy world

Randy
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Old 03-21-2009, 05:10 PM
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Kevin Kevin is offline
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Very interesting post.

Thanks for the info! I am going to do more reading on this.

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Old 03-22-2009, 03:04 PM
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BobM2006 BobM2006 is offline
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Something to think about on this: Dogs have short lives, like 12 to 15 years. How many people have heart attacks at or before that age? Not many. A heart attack is usually a clogged artery from a build up over times of cholesterol or other blood products that are not processed out of the body. Dogs don't have the time for that to happen. There might be other reasons that dogs don't get heart attacks, however. I read somewhere that dogs, and some other animals, manufacture vitamin C in their bodies, and it makes for a vitamin C amount in them like 20 times what humans have.

I was not too happy about the experiment of trying to tie off a dogs arteries so as to induce a heart attack in him. I am for research as much as the next person, but if you tie off enough arteries in a dog you will kill him. What did you learn? I think better would be to feed the dog human food and not let him exercise. Then you will get a dog you can study for clogged arteries and who will be a potential heart attack victim.
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Old 03-22-2009, 03:17 PM
Magnethos Magnethos is offline
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Dogs live 12 to 15 years, and the theory says that we can compare the Dog age with human age, multiplying the dog age * 7.
Usually all animals get the maduration of his bodies in a certain time, and they live Maduration Age * 7. That means, if a dog develops his body in 2 years, then he will live 2 * 7 = 14 years approx. Humans develop our bodies in 20 years, that means that we should live 140 years, but we don't live that amount of time.

About vitamin c, I read that humans were able to build Vit C long time ago. But now, we cannot. But we can build Vit D with the aid of the Sun.
I also read somewhere that insulin or sugar, and Vit C are very similar and when we take too much sugar we are destroying the Vit C we store in our bodies and we're destroying the collagen of the body and the arteries and veins loss a lot of elasticity due to the lost of the collagen.

Sharks, in example cannot develop cancer. The reason is cancer and regeneration potential are opposite. I mean, when we have less regeration potential we can have more cancer and viceversa. The sharks are developing teeth again and again. Humans cannot.
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Old 03-22-2009, 05:45 PM
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Genie Genie is offline
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I agree wit BobM. Experimenting on animals to draw inconclusive evidence (or, in many cases, to obtain obvious results) is not useful, painful and traumatic for the animal, and in this day and age of so many 'advancements' I find it appalling that 'science' and 'medicine' continues to use such pathetic methods. Bob's analogy of feeding a dog human food and not letting him exercise would be more conclusive, but still rather cruel to the dog, even though so many of us do this to ourselves!!

Yes, a dog gets much more exercise than the average human. But also, the fact is that a dog usually does not encounter even half of the stress that a human does. Constant stress, including emotional, mental and physical stress, takes a heavy toll on the human physiology. It's a fact.

About Vit C. To be healthy and free from disease, everyone should eat wholesome foods that contain Vit C - that includes veggies!... and yes, animals do have the ability to produce Vit C and humans do not, we must get it from food sources. We do not produce Vit C from sunshine, we produce Vit D3 from sunshine. Vit C can definitely help a person overcome and reverse many maladies. I used to go to a doctor in California who treated all patients with a regimine of Vit C intravenus therapy as a basis for treatment and supplements with homeopathic remedies and nutitrional supplements to correct specific dideases. Vit C is amazing, necessary and can be depleted as Magnethos points out. I believe Vit C is used heavily in times of stress as well due to immune system repsonse to stressors. We tend not to replace enough Vit C in our daily diets given the rate at which we are depleting it.

A healthy person - someone who eats fresh, wholesome foods and gets regular daily execrise, and maintains a healthy mind with minimal stress would not suffer from physical maladies and would certainly never suffer from a heart attack.

Thanks Vortex for posting. Sometimes we all need to be reminded of just how we end up in health-threatening health situations, and that if we take a little time to learn about a healthier way of living - phsyical, mental and emotional - then we would be happier, healthier and live more enjoyable lives. It was a good reminder for me!

P.S. I certainly don't need the scientific community to experiment on other forms of life on this planet to tell me that!

Last edited by Genie : 03-22-2009 at 05:50 PM.
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Old 03-22-2009, 11:54 PM
Vortex Vortex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genie View Post

P.S. I certainly don't need the scientific community to experiment on other forms of life on this planet to tell me that!
Genie, I'm not picking on you.. I'm just using what you said as a lead in ...

I hope ya-all do more research and take the time to read ebook "10 Years That Changed Medicine Forever"

Experimentation was the only way to prove it without taking 20 years to do
study humans, which would have never gotten funding.

It took one batch of guinea pigs, in 1990, to save millions of lives and prevent others
from taking useless drugs with side-effects, but that hasn't happen yet.

In 2005, 652,091 people died of heart disease (50.5% of them women).
This was 27.1% of all U.S. deaths. The age-adjusted death rate was 222
per 100,000 population.


Our first paper about the lipoprotein(a)/vitamin C connection
had just been published by the National Academy of Sciences, in May 1990.

Read what the experiment was below:

Quote:
From: "10 Years That Changed Medicine Forever" ebook
I set up a study with guinea pigs, an animal model
that shares the same genetic defect as human beings. They
cannot produce their own vitamin C. The experiment was
straight forward. My theory was that guinea pigs develop
arterioscleroses deposits once they are put on a vitamin C
deficient diet. Moreover, by analyzing the deposit in the
artery walls we would find the sticky lipoprotein(a) fat molecules.
The significance of this key experiment for the lives and
health of millions of people could not be underestimated.
This experiment would allow the conclusion, that a similar
mechanism takes place in the human body. The lack of vitamin
C would weaken the blood vessel walls similar to scurvy,
the sailor’s disease and subsequently lipoprotein(a),cholesterol
and other risk factors in the blood would be deposited
inside the artery walls in a desperate effort to mend this wall.
That would prove that the fatty deposits in the arteries are
no longer a coincidence or just ‘fate’, but that cardiovascular
diseases develop as an inevitable response of our body to
repair the blood vessel walls weakened by vitamin deficiency.
Deposits in vessels IS NOT a problem. The deposits are a repair OF the problem.

None of these big mammals could be called skinny:
Elephants have lived to 70 in captivity.
The oldest known ages for mammals are 110 years for a blue whale and 114 years for a fin whale.
Blabber (as in whale blubber ) can comprise up to 50% of the body mass of some marine mammals and is Lipid-rich
Lipids are broadly defined as any fat-soluble (lipophilic), naturally-occurring molecule, such as fats, oils, waxes,
cholesterol, sterols, fat-soluble vitamins (such as vitamins A, D, E and K), monoglycerides, diglycerides, phospholipids, and others.

Polar and Grizzly bears seem to do ok also, oldest living polar bear 40.
Elephant seal, largest known bull elephant seal weighed 11,000 lb (All Blubber!)

During hibernation, black bears live off their own fat, their cholesterol levels
are more than twice what they are in summer (more than twice as high as most people)

It isn't the cholesterol that's the problem, it's part of the repair of the problem.
It's Chronic scurvy (see scurvy also), google "Chronic scurvy"

As far as I know, there are no known unrelated to stress heart attacks in the
animals that create their on vitamin C.
1 + 1 does equal 2 .. do the research.

Dr. Matthias Rath is now giving out vitamins to people in Africa to cure what
is "so-called" AIDS ..
The sound in the first minutes is bad.. hang in there it gets better.
Dr Matthias Rath In London March 2007

Side-effects from drugs are the 4 leading cause of death. - Dr Matthias Rath

Tells the story of scurvy and pellagra and the vitamin B17 which has been removed from our diet.
G. Edward Griffin - A World Without Cancer

Read up about Millet grain.
Millets are rich in B vitamins, especially niacin,
B17 (see nitrilosides), B6 and folic acid,
calcium, iron, potassium, magnesium, and zinc. Millets contain no gluten, so
they are not suitable for raised bread.
Wheat replaced millet which has almost no B vitamins.

During 1950 after many years of research, a dedicated biochemist by the
name of Dr. Ernst T. Krebs, Jr., isolated a new vitamin that he numbered B17 and called 'Laetrile'
All trophoblast cells produce a unique hormone called the chorionic
gonadotrophic (CGH) which is easily detected in urine. Thus if a person is
either pregnant or has cancer, a simple CGH pregnancy test should confirm
either or both. It does, with an accuracy of better than 92% in all cases. If
the urine sample shows positive it means either normal pregnancy or abnormal malignant cancer.

Cassava, also known as tapioca is a flavorless, colorless, odorless starch has large quantities of B17.

Have you ever asked yourself why the Pharmacy is inside the grocery store?
Could it be "the cause" and "the cure" , one stop shopping? hmmmmm
How many food companies own pharmaceutical companies?
How many pharmaceutical companies own food companies?
You been told to eat better ... you believe it's your fault.
This should not be allowed to happen?


Randy
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