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  #1  
Old 09-29-2009, 10:13 PM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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Thumbs up Oath Keepers - Not On My Watch!

Oath Keepers Homepage: Oath Keeper's homepage: Oath Keepers » Oath Keepers – Guardians of the Republic

Please read the whole thing There IS LIGHT at the end of the
tunnel down below but please read this first part first...

I saw this vid a few years back and was hoping it wasn't real...
YouTube - FEMA Says Founding Fathers Are Terrorists
"Who were the first terrorist organization in the United States?" - FEMA trainer, THE FOUNDING FATHERS!

Well, it is a true video - NOT A HOAX, FEMA has actually been teaching
this to military and police.

I have a very trusted source that independently told me about the same
thing told to some people in the Army and he never even knew about
this video.

This is what I know from close friends personally...

A friend that is family to my family was a drill sergeant in the Army and
has been over to Iraq himself several times. He said the military IS
brainwashing soldiers and has been telling them that the Founding
Fathers are terrorists! Brainwashing them to believe that anyone that
speaks out against the government is a terrorist. He also said many
of his friends in the military see that our government is carrying out a
serious communist plot against the American people.

His brother is also in the Army and is stationed down south. He ALREADY
has been in patrolling exercises with weapons armed and loaded walking
through American neighborhoods in his state. What did he do? He pulled
the clip out of his rifle and put it in his pocket because he said there
is no way in hell he will ever pull a gun on his fellow Americans! HE IS
AN OATH KEEPER!

And HE IS NOT HE ONLY ONE.

I'm friends with local police firearms trainer and he has been in federal
law enforcement for many years. He said that many of the older guys
will not follow the illegal orders but he doesn't have the same confidence
about many of these younger police that are hot-headed and don't think
and just may follow orders regardless of if they are legal or not.

The active duty military and police forces are going to be the primary
ones that would be used against the American people and backed by
foreign military troops on US soil, which many are ALREADY here in
training - YES, there are foreign troops ALREADY in the United States
training in joint exercises with US military to arrest and put American's
in concentration camps and some of this training has even been
conducted with foreign troops right here in my town near Fairchild
AFB.

I don't believe they are happening on the USAF Survival School
property, they are nearby out near Airway Heights, which is the town
next to the base. These are completely illegal black ops! There are
many black helicopter operations happening around Spokane and I have
seen them many times, mostly several miles north of Spokane but I
don't know where they are going - but they are virtually silent black
unmarked helicopters. I have even seen the black triangle fly right
overhead downtown Spokane and it was 100% silent.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

HERE IS THE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE DARK TUNNEL!!!

I found out something last night - it was one of the greatest things
I have ever seen to give me confidence in America's ability to resist the
tyrannical government's attempt at passing laws that make it easy to
arrest Americans by the masses amongst other illegal actions.

Steward Rhodes is the founder and was in the military and worked with
Ron Paul at his office in Texas on the campaign.

Please watch this video:
YouTube - Oath Keepers Orders We Will NOT Obey Full Length Video

This is one of the most important movements in the history of the
United States in my opinion and is our most important line of defense
against tyranny, which is the active duty military and police forces that
reaffirm and pledge to not follow illegal orders that trespass on our
God-given Natural Rights!

Please pass these websites or this thread to EVERYONE you know.

I have seen posts online by sleeping Americans that believe - "The
American military will never receive orders to do anything against
Americans."

Well, that is their right to remain ignorant and asleep if
they want.

The military IS already training for martial law in America and this
flu pandemic bioweapon attack they are planning on the world is
already underway.

Read this if you don't believe it:
http://www.energeticforum.com/69261-post39.html
That is on the Navy's own website.

Also, read this - OBAMA's secretary of defense is trying to get approval
to put 400,000 military on the streets of the United States - WAKE UP!
It doesn't matter who the president is, they all are bank puppets. They
can say ANYTHING is an emergency - essentially, the president is ALREADY
positioned as a SUPREME DICTATOR by the illegal bills and signing
statements that Bush put into action. But are illegal laws binding? I
don't believe they are!

http://www.energeticforum.com/69205-post27.html
or
The Pentagon Wants Authority to Post Almost 400,000 Military Personnel in U.S. | The Progressive

Homepage:

Oath Keepers Homepage: Oath Keeper's homepage: Oath Keepers » Oath Keepers – Guardians of the Republic

Blog Oath Keepers

Here are orders these retired and active duty military members will NEVER follow:

1.We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.


2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people


3.We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.



4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.


5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.



6.We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.



7.We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control.”


9.We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.


Full deceleration here:

Oath Keepers: Oath Keepers: Orders We Will Not Obey

There is no time to see what will happen - take action now and tell all your military friends about Oath Keepers!

Oath Keepers Homepage: Oath Keeper's homepage: Oath Keepers » Oath Keepers – Guardians of the Republic
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Last edited by Aaron; 10-02-2009 at 02:41 AM.
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  #2  
Old 09-30-2009, 03:25 AM
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Thanks for your Oath Keepers post, Aaron. I love what they are trying to do, and it's good to see that some are willing to defend the American public, but I wonder how many are willing to take that oath, and whether it is being widely circulated. It would seem that they don't have any brethren in Pittsburgh, or at least not enough of them to stand up to the Gestapo tactics seen there this past week.
YouTube - G20 - Welcome to the New World Order

It seems that what we need is an organized effort by the Oath Keepers to show up at the next likely hot spot, both to single out and take down the unruly few who resort to violence, and to protect the peaceful demonstrators from unwarranted, unconstitutional police tactics. If they don't take things to the front lines now, then where will they be when things get much worse? It would be easier to take effective action in a situation such as the Pittsburgh one, and I think that had that been done it would have sparked great and widespread enthusiasm in others to step up and take the oath. This incident would have garnered national, even worldwide attention, and would have drawn a line in the sand. Now it is an opportunity lost, unfortunately, but it should be a lesson in what is needed.

Best regards,

Rick
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Old 09-30-2009, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickoff View Post
It would seem that they don't have any brethren in Pittsburgh, or at least not enough of them . . .
It's really hard to be down on the government when you have the best possible reps.
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  #4  
Old 09-30-2009, 09:25 AM
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You seem pleased

Quote:
Originally Posted by future pather View Post
It's really hard to be down on the government when you have the best possible reps.
Ok, I will take your word on that, that you have the "best possible reps".
You seem pleased to be able to announce that to us all,,
but that statement has me concerned about your sanity.

I'm happy you have the "best possible" organized criminals stealing your stuff instead of losers like I have, which by the way
are able to steal just as much stuff as the "Best Possible Reps" do or
even more.

When ANYONE takes your things without permission, it's called stealing
and they are a criminal. (believe you can check any bible for this one
so I will not giving a reference link to support my statement.)

Jess, you are over looking the fact that it is wrong to steal,
even if the government does it.

Yes, yes, there is "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's."
But if this is the answer, then nothing you have is YOURS, it all is
owned by the government (Ceasar's) and thusly they are not stealing
from you, just taking back their stuff.

IF Government can steal your stuff. (Trick question, be careful)
Ask yourself: "By who's authority?"
Who give them the authority?


"hard to be down on the government" .. A reality check might be required. Take your body down to visit the G-20 location
and enjoy the fresh air there. You'll be enjoying the welcome those
"Best Possible Reps" have planned months, maybe years, in advance for you.

Randy
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Old 09-30-2009, 03:40 PM
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Privatiztion of all Police Forces Begins

Hardin, Montana invaded by private police force (American Police Force)
1st town of 30 and then the entire United States.

TNW LIVE A MERCENARY GROUP TAKES OVER YOUR TOWN

Contains Hardin Local news about takeover.
2-3 NWO Mafia Hire Foreign Mercenaries Creating Militarized Police State in Hardin Montana USA
Montana Town Occupied By Private Paramilitary Security Force


Report to the President on U.S. Preparations for
2009 H1N1 Influenza
President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology (or PCAST)
The Aug 7, 2009 report is here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/assets/doc...1N1_Report.pdf

At the Federation of American Scientists web site they have a
Department of Homeland Security Resources web page.
This is web page is an eye-full to behold including
Endgame: Office of Detention and Removal Strategic Plan, 2003-2012
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Old 09-30-2009, 04:40 PM
jibbguy jibbguy is offline
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Lol, that "American Police Force" is either a total fraudulent operation of pure con-men, or a CIA front. It can't be anything else when you check them out... There is no question they are not "legitimate" as claimed.

They showed up out of nowhere 2 weeks after the state petitioned the Fed government for that prison complex to be the replacement for "Gitmo".

There are yet unconfirmed reports that they went to the townspeople and demanded that they have all their guns registered & "chipped" (illegal and absurd in Montana). So should these reports be confirmed, then they are definitely CIA-backed. No one else would even bother trying that there, lol... Or they could expect to see the citizen's gun barrel at a much closer range than they expected.

So it could be a silly & pathetic CIA plan to get the town under wraps before they send in the "terrorists" moved out from Gitmo, or it could be more sinister (some kind of higher security "FEMA" camp for political dissidents).

Or the whole thing is a red herring to discredit Alex Jones (which would come out in a few days after it reaches max viral web exposure).

We do know that is one of their favorite tactics
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Old 09-30-2009, 08:19 PM
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Aaron Aaron is offline
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Exclamation Pittsburgh Police Bruitality

Quote:
Originally Posted by future pather View Post
It's really hard to be down on the government when you have the best possible reps.
YouTube - Police Brutality in Pittsburgh after the G20

Jessica, the police of Pitt. are violating these people's constitutional rights to a peaceful assembly. Hitting people and knocking them on the ground as they're walking is illegal and is police brutality. These nazi's are no better than any other trouble makers that we have witnessed throughout history.

I hope the ones that were injured sue the your city and are awarded serious damages as well as everyone that was caused to disassemble from their peaceful protest for having their constitutional rights violated.

I think there should be a movement through every state to pass bills that will give double or triple penalty to any law enforcement officer that breaks the law because if they are supposed to enforce it, they better damd well respect the laws themselves.

Your mayor obviously has authorized or let it be authorized for these people to assault peaceful Americans without any cause whatsoever.

These police obviously have no respect for Americans or the constitution and are in serious need of some education.
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Old 09-30-2009, 08:45 PM
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ANTIQUER ANTIQUER is offline
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Some interesting history

Some of this is old and general knowledge, but some as the Australian info. is recent. Hmmmm?













Gun History

After reading the following historical facts, read the part
about Switzerland twice.

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.. From 1929 to 1953,
about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded
up and exterminated.

------------------------------

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million
Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.

------------------------------

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total
of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were
rounded up and exterminated.

------------------------------
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million
political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated


------------------------------

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000
Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000
Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated

------------------------------

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million
educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
exterminated.


-----------------------------

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century
because of gun control: 56 m illion.

------------------------------

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by
new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their
own Government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500
million dollars. The first year results are now in:

List of 7 items:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.

Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300
percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the
criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in
armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the
past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is
unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the
ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
safety has decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was
expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The
Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians
disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,
gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them
of this history lesson.

With guns, we are 'citizens.'

Without them, we are 'subjects'.

During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew
most Americans were ARMED!

Communist Doctrine says that they must DISARM
the Population, before they can dominate them!

If you value your freedom, please spread this anti-gun control message
to all of your friends.

The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in
defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more
important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is
supplemental.

SWITZERLAND ISSUES EVERY HOUSEHOLD A GUN!
AND They Train every Adult that they issue a Rifle

SWITZ ERLAND HAS THE LOWEST GUN RELATED CRIME RATE OF ANY

CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!!!

IT'S A N O BRAINER!

DON'T LET OUR GOVERNMENT WASTE MILLIONS OF OUR TAX DOLLARS

IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS AN EASY TARGET.

I'm a firm believer of the 2nd Amendment!

If you are too,

please forward.


Just think how powerful our government is getting!
They are out of Control!

They think these other countries just didn't do it right.

We MUST keep our Constitution
and especially the 1st and 2nd Amendments INTACT!

Don't let them take it away from us!!!

Learn from history.

FOOTNOTE: NYC&WASHINGTON, DC HAVE HAD STRICT GUN CONTROL LAWS FOR MANY YEARS. THEY ARE 2 OF THE HIGHEST CRIME RIDDEN CITIES IN AMERICA. ANY IDEA WHY?


Al








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Old 09-30-2009, 08:48 PM
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Hardin Montana - American Police Force

My friends were sending me this and I searched it and part of the story circulating is a hoax and some appears to be real.

These individuals are really there it seems but they are not barricading the town or doing anything else as some stories are showing. But the whole thing is fishy and being up here in the Inland Northwest, I can tell you that if they pull anything in Montana, that is about one of the last places they will ever want to intimidate people.

Here is the Montana State Sovereignty Bill:
http://data.opi.state.mt.us/BILLS/20...tml/HB0246.htm

If any federal or other "group" tries to infringe on the gun carrying rights of the people on Montana, there will be a revolution starting there and it will be far from peaceful.

This seems to be the most credible news story about this town's deal:

CA co. preps to take over MT jail - San Jose Mercury News
CA co. preps to take over MT jail

By MATTHEW BROWN Associated Press Writer
Posted: 09/26/2009 10:02:17 AM PDT
Updated: 09/26/2009 10:02:17 AM PDT

HARDIN, Mont.—After arriving in this rural city with three Mercedes SUVs marked with the logo of a nonexistent police department, representatives of an obscure California security company said preparations were under way to take over Hardin's never-used, $27 million jail.

Significant obstacles remain—including a lack of any prisoner contracts on the part of the company that wants to run the jail, American Police Force.
And on Friday came the revelation the company's operating agreement for the facility has yet to be validated—two weeks after city leaders first unveiled what they said was a signed agreement.

Still, some Hardin leaders said the deal to turn over the 464-bed jail remained on track.

The agreement with American Police Force has been heavily promoted by members of the city's economic development branch, the Two Rivers Authority. Authority Vice President Albert Peterson on Friday repeated his claim to be "100 percent" confident in the company.

The lead public figure for American Police Force, Michael Hilton, said more than 200 employees would be sought for the jail and a proposed military and law enforcement training center.

That would be a significant boost to Hardin, a struggling town of 3,500 located about 45 miles east of Billings. An earlier announcement that a job fair would be held during the last week never came to fruition.

The bonds used to pay for the jail have been in default since May, 2008. Hilton also said he planned a helicopter tour of the region in coming days to look at real estate for a planned tactical military training ground. He said 5,000 to 10,000 acres were needed to complement the training center, a $17 million project.

But the company's flashy arrival this week stirred new questions. The logo on the black Mercedes SUVs said "City of Hardin Police Department."
Yet the city has not had a police force of its own for 30 years.

"Pretty looking police car, ain't it?" Hardin resident Leroy Frickle, 67, said as he eyed one of the vehicles parked in front of a bed and breakfast where Hilton and other company representatives were staying. "The things you hear about this American Police, I don't know what to think."

Hilton said the vehicles would be handed over to the city if it forms a police force of its own. The city is now under the jurisdiction of the Big Horn County Sheriff's Office.

After meeting briefly with Hilton on Friday, Mayor Ron Adams said he wanted the police logos removed.

"This helps, but it doesn't answer everything until the contract is signed," Adams said. "Talk is cheap."

Hilton said the company's arrival in Hardin would help allay such concerns. And he promised that on Feb. 1, 2010, Hardin would receive its first check under a deal said to be worth more than $2.6 million annually.

Little has been revealed to date about American Police Force. The company was incorporated in California in March, soon after Hardin's empty jail gained notoriety after city leaders suggested it could be used for the Guantanamo Bay terrorism detainees.

Members of Montana's congressional delegation say they have been closely monitoring the events in Hardin, but the city has largely been going it alone.

In the two years since the jail was built, city leaders have clashed repeatedly with the administration of Gov. Brian Schweitzer, who opposed efforts to bring in out-of-state prisoners.

After then-Attorney General Mike McGrath issued a 2007 opinion saying prisoners from other states were prohibited, Hardin successfully sued the state.

Despite the city's contention that the state has continued to foil its efforts to find prisoners, Montana Department of Corrections spokesman Bob Anez said his agency is no longer involved. "That's water under the bridge," Anez said.

On Friday, American Police Force announced its first local hire: a reporter for the Billings Gazette, Becky Shay, who has covered events surrounding the jail since its construction. She will be the company's spokeswoman for $60,000 a year.

Shay said she intended to bring new transparency to the process, but declined to directly answer the first question posed to her: Where is American Police Force getting the money to operate the jail and build the training center?

"I know enough about where the money is coming from to be confident signing on with them," she said.

Gazette Editor Steve Prosinski said he was first informed about Shay's decision to leave the paper on Friday. "We weren't aware that she was talking with them about employment," he said.

Hilton said he also had a job discussion with Kerri Smith, wife of Two Rivers Authority Executive Director Greg Smith, who helped craft the deal to bring American Police Force to Hardin. Greg Smith was placed on unpaid leave two weeks ago for reasons that have not been explained.

Kerri Smith is one of two finalists in the city's mayoral race. Hilton said he asked her to call him about possible employment if she did not win the race.
Kerri Smith could not be reached immediately for comment. A message was left by The Associated Press at a theater owned by the Smith family. Her home number is unlisted.
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Old 09-30-2009, 08:56 PM
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Oath Keeper's present at demonstrations

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickoff View Post
It seems that what we need is an organized effort by the Oath Keepers to show up at the next likely hot spot, both to single out and take down the unruly few who resort to violence, and to protect the peaceful demonstrators from unwarranted, unconstitutional police tactics. If they don't take things to the front lines now, then where will they be when things get much worse?
Brilliant idea to have their presence. It would be a political nightmare for the police to disturb retired military - who should wear their uniforms. Can you imagine a row of retired military in uniform being harassed by police or worse yet, assaulted?

And military and non-military should exercise their Open Carry rights where it applies in their own area. In Washington state, a permit for handguns is only required if you want to conceal it. Otherwise, you don't need one if you want to openly carry a gun in a holster walking down the street, going into a restaurant, etc...

When I was much younger in the early 80's when I lived here, I remember quite a few people openly wore their guns...today, I haven't seen this in years.

OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost!
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Old 09-30-2009, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
YouTube - Police Brutality in Pittsburgh after the G20

Jessica, the police of Pitt. are violating these people's constitutional rights to a peaceful assembly. Hitting people and knocking them on the ground as they're walking is illegal and is police brutality. These nazi's are no better than any other trouble makers that we have witnessed throughout history.

I hope the ones that were injured sue the your city and are awarded serious damages as well as everyone that was caused to disassemble from their peaceful protest for having their constitutional rights violated.

I think there should be a movement through every state to pass bills that will give double or triple penalty to any law enforcement officer that breaks the law because if they are supposed to enforce it, they better damd well respect the laws themselves.

Your mayor obviously has authorized or let it be authorized for these people to assault peaceful Americans without any cause whatsoever.

These police obviously have no respect for Americans or the constitution and are in serious need of some education.
Aaron,

I am way madder at the idiot from CA who caused a ton of damage in my town than I am at the police for stopping further damage. They were protecting the civil rights of people who did not want damage.

If you are right, why did the police let the peaceful protesters demonstrate? Why did they not stop the unauthorized protest until it got violent? Why did they let peaceful protesters hang a sign from a major bridge to downtown with people hanging off the sign stay for 3 hours just so they could get their message out? Why did people clap for the police while they stopped the violent protest?

Our mayor swore in the extra law enforcement when they got here and made them all pledge to uphold the constitution, which they did by protecting us from violent people. You will say they were CIA agitators or something. I will say I don't believe that for a second. We could go back and forth forever so it's not really worth arguing that. I respect your right to your opinion.

(Btw my dad is a civil rights attorney so don't think I'm ignorant to the issues.)

One day you may need a policeman to help you. From that day forward you may appreciate them.
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by future pather View Post
Our mayor swore in the extra law enforcement when they got here and made them all pledge to uphold the constitution, which they did by protecting us from violent people. You will say they were CIA agitators or something. I will say I don't believe that for a second. We could go back and forth forever so it's not really worth arguing that. I respect your right to your opinion.
Actually I do want to state why I don't think they were CIA agitators. It's bc there were a lot of other protests without any violence at all. If the CIA really wanted to make people mad they would have had some agitators at the petitioned and lawful demonstrations.

Instead the only violent people were in non-petitioned protests and they were dressed in all black and were telling the news people that they were anarchists as they were smashing windows.

What makes me maddest is that when the police blocked them from certain businesses they were targeting, they did damage at mom and pop places. Their aim was damage, not righteousness.
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:38 PM
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police

Jessica, that may be true about peaceful protesters but in this video, there are people that are clearly being non-violent walking by and are having violence acted against them by the police - such as being hit with sticks and being pushed on the ground. If those people were causing trouble or were acting aggressively, the police wouldn't have simply pushed them to the ground, etc.., they would have clearly been arrested.

I am not in support of trouble makers at protests and I never said anything about cia. There are people that simply don't act with much common sense and have no idea about effective dissent starting with being peaceful. But I'm not going to rule out the fact that it has been documented over and over in the last 100 years of govt. agents instigating riots, etc... this is very well known and is public information. Do I think that happened there at the G20 meeting? I didn't even consider the idea until you brought it up.

I respect the need for law enforcement so please don't misunderstand me. I respect police that obey the law and do respect the constitution, not selectively, but in its entirety.

Also, you should then know that the police actually has zero obligation to "protect" the public. Their objective from the beginning has been to DETER crime and enforce the laws broken but never to protect anyone. Just becaus they don't have a leagl obligation to protect doesn't mean they won't necessary have a moral obligation to. The slogan or motto on the side of a police car of "To Protect and To Serve" is a misleading statement as it doesn't identify their purpose of the police. It should say, "To Serve as a Deterrent."

The only time anyone is under "protection" of the police is when there is some sort of "special agreement" made. For example... if the police show up at a home where a child is being beaten. They are to enforce the law as they are permitted or required. After that point, the police have zero obligation legally to protect that child. If one of the police for example tell the child, "Don't worry, we won't let anything happen to you," at that point, a special agreement is made and is legally binding, by whatever legal terminology and at that point, the police are then legally obligated to actually protect that child in the future and if the child is hurt, then the police are liable.

I have some friends that are police officers and many, many friends that are either retired or active duty military. I do see the need for police and military.

There is a book that everyone should read that is interested in knowing where the police are in compliance with the law and when they are overstepping their bounds. I thought it was called Policing the Police and it was available as far back as 1989-1990 and maybe before then. It details quite a bit about what "civilians" are entitled to do in self defense, etc... when becoming the subject of illegal actions by police officers.

I searched Amazon and other sites and there are multiple books by that name so I don't know which is the right one. Will have to check some old references. It is invaluable to anyone interested in defending their civil rights.
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:41 PM
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Sorry for all the add-ons but you need to realize that vid is a couple blocks from where all the G-20 leaders were meeting right then. There was NO WAY IN HELL people didn't know what was going on there. Classes were canceled, bus lines were re-routed, huge gates were put up, and of course who could miss all the force?

No police action was taken without laborious warnings blasted from loudspeakers.

Notice they are not showing hardly any of the people and when they do the people are generally in all black?
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:46 PM
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To add another piece of the puzzle, there is a local violent gang which dresses in all black.
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:39 AM
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Puzzle...

Quote:
Originally Posted by future pather View Post
To add another piece of the puzzle, there is a local violent gang which dresses in all black.
I did survive Martial Law, curfew, armed patrols, censorship and monitoring of private mail and communication, intern camps, shooting at unarmed citizens and sending armored police force with army to maintain peace -read "protect government from citizens". I've seen peaceful demonstration of laborers being attacked and brutally dispersed by mentioned forces. I know for fact, that in many situations either police members (from away) were dressed as laborers, provided with "stimulating agents" and sent to merge with crowd. Their role was to create a situation which would justify using force by crowd control. In demonstration of 5 - 20 thousand people from couple factories would be impossible to identify agitators. There was between 50 - 100 used at the time. They attacked police with rocks, smashed windows etc. etc. They had ID's preventing them from being seriously beat up by the riot police. This is an old tactics used all over the world and they always worked. Agitators can be dressed similar, not to be confused and harmed. When you watch video material, try to observe if those extreme elements are getting harsh treatment, or rather peaceful bystanders or protesters. Sometimes the can be identified by their footwear (pay attention to the soles - law enforcement issued gear). Another tactic is hiring local gangs to do the same job. This is actually cheaper (favor for favor). Anything is possible. I'm not saying that this was a case but I've seen enough to make a few people stomach sick for a long time and non believing in any government for the rest of their lives.

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Old 10-01-2009, 02:56 AM
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I'm not saying there weren't planned agitators, I'm not saying that in the past there couldn't have been crooked politicians backing that.

But personally right now, I believe that any such groups are not lead by Obama. If I would finger one guy, it could be Rove looking to the next election.

But here's a point I want to reiterate. There were many many planned and peaceful demonstrations.

Only ONE got violent and that one was the ONLY ONE in which people did not have a permit to demonstrate. It is the one that had most people dressed in all black. NO OTHER demonstration had problems. Other people who wanted to get arrested to prove a point were treated with respect and had smiles on their faces while getting arrested. I saw only evidence of the government working with people who were reasonable and stopping people who weren't.

Here's some pics with some of the other successful demonstration. Only one picture shows the people I am talking about in the background on the left. The big peace march towards the end is Friday, after all the violence. It was a total success.

Photo Slide Show: The Pittsburgh Summit
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Old 10-01-2009, 03:12 AM
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YouTube - Bush's Brain - Available at IndiePix.net

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Old 10-01-2009, 04:45 AM
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Antiquer - re Australian gun laws

[quote=ANTIQUER;69470]Some of this is old and general knowledge, but some as the Australian info. is recent. Hmmmm?

Gun History ...........


It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by
new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their
own Government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500
million dollars. The first year results are now in:

List of 7 items:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.

Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.

Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300
percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the
criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in
armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the
past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is
unarmed.

There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the
ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
safety has decreased, after such monumental effort, and expense was
expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The
Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians
disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,
gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

Hi Antiquer,
I was rather puzzled when I read this info regarding Australia as it has been a number of years since the mandatory gun law was passed over here. I am also not aware of any major increases of crimes being committed through the use of guns, so was wondering where this info came from. I don't believe that it is because the crimes go unreported by the media because our media over here are just as keen as elsewhere to report on anyone's misfortune & any armed robberies, murders etc always make the headlines.

This information does not fit what I know is happening regarding gun useage - I live in Melbourne, the capital city of Victoria.

After a search on the web I found the following info which would shows that it was written back in 2001:

Crime Down Under Gun Legislation Has Increased Australia's Crime Rate? - BreakTheChain.org


Date Added: Sept. 27, 2001
Last Updated: Sept. 27, 2001
This chain uses questionable statistics to "prove" that recent gun control legislation in Australia has actually increased crime there. It is presented as a warning to those in the United States and other countries who are pushing gun control like those in Australia.
Subject: ABOUT AUSTRALIA
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 6:05 AM
Subject: Worth repeating
From: Ed Chenel, a police officer in Australia.



"Hi Yanks,
I thought you all would like to see the real figures from Down Under.
It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.



The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent, Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent; Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent!) In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)


While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.



There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in "successfully ridding Australian society of guns."

You won't see this data on the American evening news or hear your governor or members of the state Assembly disseminating this information.
The Australian experience proves it. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note Americans, before it's too late! "




These seem like very convincing statistics and seem to support the popular view of bureaucrats who care nothing about the real effects their laws have. This chain is popular because people want them to be true.
Jenny Mouzos, Research Analyst for the Australian Institute of Criminology, told BreakTheChain.org in 2001 that the letter is an interesting study in creative interpretation of real statistics:

Please find below a detailed response to each claim made in the email entitled "About Australia".


Claim One:
* Homicides are up 3.2%
* Assaults are up 8.6%
* Armed robberies are up 44%
Response:
These figures compare 1996 with 1997 figures and were correct at that time.
(Data source: Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) Recorded Crime 1997, Table 1.1, p 8).


Claim Two:
Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms (changed drastically in the past 12 months).
Response:
Actual figures from the ABS do show an increase in armed robbery from 1995 (5258) to 1996 (6256) to 1997 (9054) to 1998 (10850), but the proportion of firearms used to commit armed robbery has continued to decline over this period:
1995 - 27.8%
1996 - 25.3%
1997 - 24.1%
1998 - 17.6%
1999 - 15.2%
2000 - 14.0%



Claim Three:
In the state of Victoria homicides with firearms are up 300%
Response:
Victoria recorded 7 firearm-related homicides in 1996, and 19 firearm-related homicides in 1997. That number has now fallen.
1996 - 7
1997 - 19 (171.4% increase from 1996 to 1997)
1998 - 17 (10.5% decrease from 1997 to 1998).
1999 - 14 (17.6% decrease from 1998 to 1999).

Claim Four:
There has been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly
Response:
According to the 1998 ABS Crime and Safety Survey "households with persons aged 55 years and over had a lower risk of break-in victimisation compared with other households" (page 27).
According to the ABS Recorded Crime:
1996 - 1474 victims of assault aged 65 and over
1997 - 1662 victims of assault aged 65 and over (12.8% increase from '96 to '97)
1998 - 1663 victims of assault aged 65 and over (0.06% increase from '97 to '98)
1999 - 1793 victims of assault aged 65 and over (7.8% increase from '98 to '99).
Further information on firearm-related homicide and firearm-related injuries in Australia can be downloaded from the AIC website:
Australian Institute of Criminology - Error
Australian Institute of Criminology - Error
Australian Institute of Criminology - Error

For the most part, the statistics presented in the chain letter and in Ms. Mouzos' rebuttle are insignificant and most of the changes can be attributed to population increase and other factors.



The thing about statistics is that they only show rate of incident - they don't show cause and effect. That interpretation is done by the author based on his own biases and beliefs. Another author might easily have used the same stats to show that the law has been a stunning success.
Frankly, the stats aren't convincing on their own and the author's claim that they are a result of the law is questionable at best. Break this chain.
References: Australian Institute of Criminology



Love, Light & Blessings,
Sharyn
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Old 10-01-2009, 05:14 AM
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Good grief!

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Originally Posted by future pather View Post

The big peace march towards the end is Friday, after all the violence.
The video posted by Aaron is also from Friday - Friday evening, at that. Long after nearly all the G-20 conference attendees had left and gone. Why are 1200 police and military personnel readying to use riot control tactics to disperse a crowd of only 300 people who obviously are not rioting? The rowdiest they get is to stand there and chant, "We, the people, have a right to assemble." Do you really think the police felt threatened by that?

And in other videos, like this one ( YouTube - BREAKING NEWS! Riots break out at Pittsburgh University, students gassed and beat ) why did the police show up on the university campus and pelt students with rubber bullets and teargas when the students insisted on their right to assemble? Heck, it was their own turf - the university! The police had no business being there, absent a riot and without being invited. The only thing that could possibly be misconstrued as an act of aggression is when one of the protesters picks up a tear gas can that has been lobbed at the demonstrators and throws it back towards the police (36 seconds into the video). I'd say that was a justifiable and courageous thing to do under the circumstances. Anyone else agree?

The use of pepper spray, rubber bullets, bats, tear gas, and a high frequency sound cannon against college students was deplorable. These kids could be anyone's brother, sister, son, or daughter. They are not a threat to anyone, and only wished to exercise their first ammendment right of assembly. Tactics like these bring back memories of Kent State University students who were shot and killed for protesting. Someone gave the order to load up with live ammo, but no one served any jail time for that hideously demented bloodletting. You're probably too young to remember that, Jessica, but I'm sure there are many of us here who remember it well and will never forget it.

Before closing, I ask everyone reading this - including you, Jessica, - to watch the following 4 minute, 41 second video concerning the Friday night university protest, and then speak your minds as to who you believe were the unruly ones - the students, or the police?
YouTube - G20 Brutality displayed - YOUR GOVERNMENT at work! Support LUKE FUND

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Old 10-01-2009, 06:14 AM
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Reply to Aaron:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
Brilliant idea to have [The Oath Keepers'] presence. It would be a political nightmare for the police to disturb retired military - who should wear their uniforms. Can you imagine a row of retired military in uniform being harassed by police or worse yet, assaulted?
Yes, I can imagine that vividly. Media reports would probably say they were a group of mentally ill veterans, or something along those lines. That's why a professional video should be made which interviews the Oath Keepers who are present, to show who they are and why they are there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
And military and non-military should exercise their Open Carry rights where it applies in their own area. In Washington state, a permit for handguns is only required if you want to conceal it. Otherwise, you don't need one if you want to openly carry a gun in a holster walking down the street, going into a restaurant, etc...
Same here in Maine, Aaron, and also in Pennsylvania. Philadelphia is the only city in PA that requires an Open Carry permit for pedestrians.
Here's a handy map where you can click on any state and see their Open Carry rules: OpenCarry.org - A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost!

It's a shame that the Oath Keepers' opportunity was lost in Pittsburgh, especially on Friday - after the police brutality of the previous day. Oath Keepers really do need to show up at events that have a likelihood of police or military bullying. I'd be happy to chip in on bus fare to help get them to wherever the next standoff is likely to take place.

Rick
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Old 10-01-2009, 07:05 AM
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Gun History

Hi Sharyn!

Thanks for the info., I was hoping someone from "Down Under" would check it out.
I tend to agree with the comments at the end of the report. However, due to the lack of any comment from the government as to the success of this very costly act, I tend to surmise it was less than a resounding success or the politicians would be crowing loudly in the press.

Also, I assume the law was passed in 1999 or 2000 as the report was in 2001. Yet most of the stats cited in the rebuttal cut off in 1999. Is their any way for you to get the stats from 1999 on so we can see what effect the gun collection might have had long-term? It would be interesting to see regardless of interpretation. I tried the links but they said the site was under re-development. Maybe there are other sources for this info.

I think the rest of the report is factual and makes the point. I am a little surprised they didn't mention the small town in Georgia (in the southern U.S.A) that requires all households to own a gun. They have practically no crime.

Thanks again for the info. and any more you can come up with.

Al
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:39 AM
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police bruitality and violating the constitution

I didn't see my govt at work, I saw Nazi's in American police uniform breaking the law. And National Guard assisting in this? What a sad, sad, pathetic excuse for Americans.

Jessica, maybe your father can do some pro bono work and help these youngsters out as their rights are clearly violated - at least maybe he can consult with them and get more of the story - it is a sad day, unfortunately again, in America.

Blocking students at both ends of a hallway/staircase and tear gassing them?

They're asking the students to leave but won't let them leave by blocking them in?

One of my best friends here had the police show up at his house trying to get in because he matched a description of someone that robbed some wal greens pharmacy???? What a joke. He wasn't there but his mom, a well-respected elementary school teacher was. They tried to force their way in without a warrant to search the place and she wouldn't let them in. She, unfortunately, went out the door and they beat her and arrested her and threw her in jail and treated her like an animal. For weeks she was so stressed from it.

You know where I went a several weeks back? To her FUNERAL because she died of a stress induced aneurysm - because they were threatening to destroy her career and her life - those murderers have shown more about what America is coming to because of the complacency of Americans.

My friend and his brother is in talks with the ombudsman and I hope they get a fortune from the criminal syndicate aka Spokane police.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:38 PM
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Ok it was Friday but I still see the people in black and it was after a day of violence by unpermitted protests in the area of town where the most damage was done.

These dopes are like people who chase a tornado and then complain about their vehicle getting damaged or something.

Why didn't these people get a permit to protest like everyone else?

Why are a lot of them wearing all black plus something over their faces?

I WOULDN'T WANT TO SEE THOSE PEOPLE ANYWHERE, not in the street in front of my house, not at the grocery store.

Let's say a group of them were on the street in front of your house. Legal right? Now let's say they kept trying to get into your house? Would you have the police try to stop them? In many of these vids these people are egging the authority on, pushing boundaries, and then trying to film any reaction.

Their goal is clearly to make the police look bad. Otherwise, again, why couldn't they be like all the successful protesters, getting a permit. The police worked with all those people.

My dad supports the law, which works for the people plenty of times.

I don't believe for a second that they were innocent victims.

They treated the security of my town like it was something for their entertainment. I have no sympathy.
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:43 PM
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And the school and all the private property around it is not "their turf" either. Although some of them may pay tuition, the school has the right to kick out people who cause damage.
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Old 10-01-2009, 02:13 PM
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Also look at the comments below the vid like

"because our city was in lockdown, people were causeing trouble that night wether it was or wasnt them who the **** protests at night? whats the point of protesting at night, noone hears you except for the people trying to sleep. they shoulda stayed out of downtown or oakland or the strip wherever they were and ****in sat at home, this isnt becoming nazi this is becoming militant and stop letting these little pussys with there camras take advantage of there freedom of speach"

"thats what you get for protesting you idiot.. what did you think you would be able to stroll around Pittsburgh when its in lockdown mode? me personally i believe they should have whooped you ass, along with those morons hanging **** off the bridge, get a life... and get a hint...your opinion doesn't actually matter"

Please don't think these people with the camera were just innocently hanging around.
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Old 10-01-2009, 06:00 PM
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Legal definition of ASSEMBLY

Was there an intention to commit an unlawful act?

Those people were in assembly and were NOT a protest, a rout or a riot.
(G20 Brutality displayed - YOUR GOVERNMENT at work! Support LUKE FUND)
Where there "by permit only" signs?
Where there "do not assemble" signs?
Where there "do not enter" signs?
Where there "enter at your on risk" signs?
Where there "No Trespassing" signs?

You don't need a permit to engage in an activity guaranteed by the constitution.
A permit is to ask permission, permission can be denied .. that is not a guarantee IS IT?

Quote:
ASSEMBLY. The union of a number of persons in the same place. There are several kinds of assemblies.

2. Political assemblies, or those authorized by the constitution and laws; for example, the general assembly, which includes the senate and house of representatives; the meeting of the electors of the president and vice-president of the United States, may also be called an assembly.

3. Popular assemblies are those where the people meet to deliberate upon their rights; these are guaranteed by the constitution. Const. U. S. Amend. art. 1 Const. of Penn. art. 9, s. 20.

4. Unlawful assemblies. An unlawful assembly is the meeting of three or more persons to do an unlawful act, although they may not carry their purpose into execution. It differs from a riot or rout, (q. v.) because in each of the latter-cases there is some act done besides the simple meeting.
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Old 10-01-2009, 07:56 PM
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Ok it was Friday but I still see the people in black...Why are a lot of them wearing all black plus something over their faces? I WOULDN'T WANT TO SEE THOSE PEOPLE ANYWHERE... I have no sympathy.
You needn't have said it, Jessica, we already are well aware that you have no sympathy for those who would assert their Constitutional right of freedom to assemble. Notice how the people who are assembled are simply chanting, "We, the people, have a right to assemble?" A permit is not required to participate in that right. Furthermore, I'm sure that people in the neighborhood who were trying to sleep found the firing of police weapons, police shouting, barking of attack dogs, and use of a high frequency sound cannon far more disruptive to sleep than the citizens' chanting. Indeed, any patriotic people in the neighborhood would have felt gladdened to hear the chanted words, and alarmed at hearing them silenced.

What is with this fixation of yours regarding people who wear black? Do you associate those who wear black as being inherently evil? What if several nuns and clergymen showed up in their usual black attire? And did you fail to notice that all the police thugs were dressed in black? Frankly, about the only people dressed all in black with something over their faces were the police. I didn't see people in the park, or at the university, wearing anything over their faces, but if any of the citizens did have something covering their faces it was no doubt an attempt to protect themselves from the police brutality of using rubber bullets and teargas - not to hide their identity or appear as lawless bandits.

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Old 10-01-2009, 08:10 PM
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Those people look like they are about to rob a bank.

I'm sorry but I would find it alarming to see one person like that around town, and more alarming to see several of them. Especially after groups dressed like that got violent.

(You seem to have missed my point about the local gang that dresses in black if you have to ask what I have against that.)

If I owned a store I would not let somebody in who was dressed like that and had a bandanna over their face. Not only for the safety of employees but also of patrons.

When I'm out and about these days I am hoping and praying I don't see somebody like that and glad when I see police, security guards, etc. who are only still here bc them bandanna people got violent.

Do you have sympathy for someone who goes swimming at a beach when it is closed due to shark attacks in order to assert their civil rights? Will you be paying for their medical bills to thank them for their fly-in-the-face-of-the-law actions? I mean it's totally your right but for me that's unreasonable to ask.
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:22 PM
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Re: OathKeepers website - get involved

Just wanted to point out that the OathKeepers website has a section where you can post a comment. I posted a comment and question there on the 29th, but hadn't seen a reply yet from any of the OathKeepers, so posted again today. I suggested how they would be well advised to draw a line in the sand and make a stand for freedom at the next likely point of confrontation between citizens and police/military personnel. It might help if everyone reading this would post their own comment supporting the ideas put forward to the OathKeepers in my posts. You will find the comment section at the bottom of this web page:
Oath Keepers » Blog Archive » Declaration Of Orders We Will Not Obey
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