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  #31  
Old 10-02-2009, 02:39 AM
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http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

Thanks for that link Rick. I didn't even see the main website, I posted the blog.

Here is the Oath Keeper's homepage: Oath Keepers Ľ Oath Keepers – Guardians of the Republic
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  #32  
Old 10-02-2009, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by future pather View Post
Those people look like they are about to rob a bank.
Which people? The ones in the park who are totally surrounded by police, and forced to lay face down on the ground, after which tear gas is sprayed on them?

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Originally Posted by future pather View Post
(You seem to have missed my point about the local gang that dresses in black if you have to ask what I have against that.)
I looked at all of the pictures in the "slide show" that you referenced in post #17, where you said that the people in black were in the background at left of one picture. I only saw one photo that could possibly be what you are talking about:


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When I'm out and about these days I am hoping and praying I don't see somebody like that and glad when I see police, security guards, etc. who are only still here bc them bandanna people got violent.
Is the above photo the one you were referring to? I do see two people dressed partially in black at the left, but it can not be seen if they are wearing any sort of face coverings. They certainly don't appear to be getting very rowdy, and are just standing there. Are you sure that these are violent gang members? Notice that the two people in the foreground are both wearing black shoes, and that the girl is wearing black leggings and a black polka dotted skirt. Perhaps these are gang members too, right? I'm sure that you probably do have gang members there in Pittsburgh who roam the steets looking to cause trouble, and maybe there's a good chance that they were the ones responsible for damages caused. But in any case, what in the world does that have to do with police brutality against non violent college students? If there's a small group of gang members doing damage then round them up and cart them off to jail, but leave everyone else alone.

Now everyone take one more look at the "people in black" in the photo above, and then take a look at the photo below. Which group of "people in black" looks more menacing to you? Comments, people?







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Do you have sympathy for someone who goes swimming at a beach when it is closed due to shark attacks in order to assert their civil rights?
Shark attack, police attack - not much difference. And in the video at the park ( YouTube - G20 Brutality displayed - YOUR GOVERNMENT at work! Support LUKE FUND ) I saw no signs saying the park was closed. So in this case, yes I do have sympathy for those who were unjustly attacked by shark-like, merciless, stormtrooper police.

Rick
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  #33  
Old 10-02-2009, 11:19 PM
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Interesting developments

An article appearing in the October 1 Pittsburgh Tribune-Review identifies a 21 year old California man, David Japenga, as the person responsible for much of the window smashing damage during the G-20 summit.
California man to stand trial for vandalism in Oakland during G-20 - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

Interestingly, the article states, "During Japenga's hearing, state police Trooper Boyd Wass testified he was working undercover and watching a crowd of 100 protesters Thursday evening in Oakland when he saw Japenga break away and start smashing windows of businesses with a U-shaped bike lock. Citizen's Bank, Quizno's and the Irish Design Center estimated damage to their windows cost a combined $15,440."

A couple of questions arise. After Wass witnessed Japenga smashing the very first window, why did he not act quickly to subdue and arrest him before allowing further damage to occur? And since Japenga clearly left the small crowd of protesters before beginning his rampage, why wasn't he singled out for corrective action, rather than branding the entire group as trouble makers?

In total, nearly 200 people were arrested and charged by Pittsburgh police in connection with Thursday and Friday incidents last week. More than 50 people have already filed charges of police abuse and brutality. A judge has already dropped charges against several university students, and has offered to drop charges against anyone else showing video or other proof that they were unjustly arrested.
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Old 10-03-2009, 05:58 AM
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Another must see

Take a good look at this intimidating display of force by Pittsburgh nazi storm troopers as they beat their batons in unison while advancing against a non-violent group of citizens attempting to assert their First Ammendment right to peacefully assemble.

YouTube - WeAreChange Confronts Tyranny
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Old 10-03-2009, 05:18 PM
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A couple of questions arise. After Wass witnessed Japenga smashing the very first window, why did he not act quickly to subdue and arrest him before allowing further damage to occur?
Uh gee could it have been perhaps bc the officer was. . . .UNDERCOVER?!? And in the middle of an important assignment protecting people and property from violence Hmmmm. Let's think about that Rick.

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And since Japenga clearly left the small crowd of protesters before beginning his rampage, why wasn't he singled out for corrective action, rather than branding the entire group as trouble makers?
As far as I know he is still in jail here. Bail was in the double digit thousands and they thought he may not pay it before his trial.

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In total, nearly 200 people were arrested and charged by Pittsburgh police in connection with Thursday and Friday incidents last week. More than 50 people have already filed charges of police abuse and brutality. A judge has already dropped charges against several university students, and has offered to drop charges against anyone else showing video or other proof that they were unjustly arrested.
While the others, as you have stated are getting justice. Protection from violence in the middle of it all seems like the right priority to me.
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  #36  
Old 10-03-2009, 09:20 PM
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Reply to Jessica:

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Uh gee could it have been perhaps bc the officer was. . . .UNDERCOVER?!? And in the middle of an important assignment protecting people and property from violence Hmmmm. Let's think about that Rick.
I have thought about it, and that's why I asked the question. If his assignment is to protect people and property from violence then he should have acted quickly to do just that. Since he obviously didn't, then what could his actual assignment have been? To simply pose as one of the citizens taking part in the otherwise peaceful protest? Or perhaps to locate those in a crowd who appear to be angry, and then incite them to violence to provide an excuse for ending the demonstration? When seeing that an act of violence is inevitable and about to occur, or is already occurring, an undercover officer is obliged to take prompt remedial action, whether it exposes his undercover operation or not.

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Protection from violence in the middle of it all seems like the right priority to me.
I agree, and simply subduing and removing the few culprits responsible for actual violence would certainly have been appropriate and justified. But surrounding groups of peaceful protesters, forcing them to the ground, beating them with clubs, pelting them with rubber bullets, spraying them with mace and teargas, projecting ear splitting bursts from sound cannons, is certainly not appropriate or justified (unless, of course, the ones doing so, or the ones who approve of such repugnant action, are totally demented).

Incidentally, the person charged as the perpetrator who is responsible for most of the property damages may have a good case for escaping punishment. His lawyer has presented the argument that the undercover policeman, Wass, could not possibly have identified his client as the actual perpetrator of the events, because he was wearing clothing and a face covering that obscured his identity. The argument, of course, would be that since other people that day were similarly dressed, it could have been any one of them that officer Wass saw breaking windows. By not taking prompt action against the individual responsible, Wass may have allowed him to mix back in with other similarly dressed people after doing the damage, which would make it nearly impossible to then single him out as being the actual culprit unless definitive video proof can be offered to substantiate charges. I have not seen any such videos so far, and there is a good chance that such video does not exist, since several professional video crews (including CNN, for example) were sprayed with teargas and forced to leave areas where demonstrations were taking place. Please do keep us informed as to the outcome of the trial against this person, Jessica. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Rick
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  #37  
Old 10-04-2009, 03:31 AM
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Please do keep us informed as to the outcome of the trial against this person, Jessica. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Rick
Yes please do. If this fellow is somehow declared innocent due to lack of evidence or whatever I would find that every interesting. As I would then assume that the whole thing was a staged event used to break up the demonstration.
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Old 10-04-2009, 06:17 AM
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Exactly. Ditto that, MS.

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  #39  
Old 10-05-2009, 04:15 PM
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I have thought about it, and that's why I asked the question. If his assignment is to protect people and property from violence then he should have acted quickly to do just that.
I have never worked as an undercover law officer but it only seems logical that he would not blow his cover when the day was far from over.

It makes sense that he would somehow identify the violent person/people so that known officers could act and he could retain his cover and continue to do his job.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:20 PM
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Ok so something changed or I misread something.

I'm just posting this to correct my past post and bc people are asking.

The guy from CA is being held on felony charges without bail according to a local article I just read.
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Old 10-05-2009, 04:26 PM
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Ok further update. I don't know the order of things here but apparently he was at some point given a bail option of $15k and it was raised and now he is under house arrest with electronic monitoring.

"He will be arraigned in December and the trial will probably be in March or April."
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:57 AM
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A broader overview.

This incident has raised some interesting points, most of which are the same points that have been heavily discussed for many years involving many demonstrations. Little has changed.

My questions are these;

(1) Why demonstrate? It only gives the press fodder, most of which is biased against the demonstrators in order to denigrate their cause and gives the "men in black" an opportunity for whatever. Members of Congress write it off as a few nuts on the loose, etc. Writing, e-mailing, attending their local meetings, etc. are much more effective at getting their attention without the negative fallout. And of course voting is the only real control we have over them.

(2) Why do we have to shut down a major U.S. city just because "the rich guys are coming to town."? If they are in that much danger meet on an island somewhere where they can be more easily protected without disrupting the lives of so many citizens. There are several in the Caribbean with luxury hotels that would be glad to see them. After all, this is nothing but a big show for the press. Can anyone name anything of lasting value that ever came from one of these meetings? They are as worthless as the U.N.

Those are my thoughts, comments welcome.

Al
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:26 PM
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Hi Al,

I fully agree with your second point, and it is a good one. Regarding your first point, however, I beg to differ. I think that the blinders have been taken off of a great many peoples' eyes because of the protest activities and resultant police brutality seen in Pittsburgh, and I believe that's a good thing. Sure, there will be those who liken the protesters to a bunch of nuts, but I believe the majority of people who review the video evidence are seeing past that. I also feel that, as you say, voting would be the only real control we have over abuses ignored or promoted by elected officials. The problem is, though, that in practically all cases we are not really given a choice when we vote. Whatever person we end up voting for, nothing really changes. And that is because the powerful elite are in full control of the "choices" that are presented to us. Unless and until a vast majority of the population awakens to this fact, and takes action to stop and prevent it, such abuse is perpetually inevitable.

Best regards to you,

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Old 10-07-2009, 02:19 AM
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Post GENERAL ORDERS No. 100. (1863 )

Would this explain rulings coming from the courts?

As far as I know there is no evidence that a "special proclamation"
or "treaty of peace" has occurred, which means the United States
is still under martial law.
If indeed the US is under martial law and the Lieber Code of 1863 is still
active, this is a major KEY to understanding who you are and what
has and is happening.

Worth reading to know the rules of martial law.

Worth noting is evidence that local police are extensions of
the military authority.

The Lieber Code of 1863

Title: INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE GOVERNMENT OF ARMIES OF THE UNITED STATES IN THE FIELD.
SECTION I.--Martial law--Military jurisdiction--Military necessity--Retaliation.
SECTION II.--Public and private property of the enemy--Protection of persons, and especially of women; of religion, the arts and sciences--Punishment of crimes against the inhabitants of hostile countries.
SECTION III.--Deserters--Prisoners of war--Hostages--Booty on the battle-field.
SECTION IV.--Partisans--Armed enemies not belonging to the hostile army--Scouts--Armed prowlers-- War-rebels.
SECTION V.--Safe-conduct--Spies-- War-traitors-- Captured messengers-Abuse of the flag of truce.
SECTION VI.--Exchange of prisoners--Flags of truce--Flags of protection.
SECTION VII.--The parole.
SECTION VIII.--Armistice--Capitulation.
SECTION IX.--Assassination.
SECTION X.--Insurrection-- Civil war--Rebellion.

This isn't a totally bad thing if it is still active!
It explains to us where we stand and the big dirty secret the authorities
have been keeping from us because the Lieber Code states the public
never has to be informed they are under martial law.

Is this the road-map to what is going on?

Worth noting: The authorities must protect those that are peaceful
inhabitants else suffer punishments that include death.

Randy
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Old 10-07-2009, 06:51 AM
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Demonstrations

Hi rick, always glad to hear a response or read a post from you.

You do such a thorough job of investigating whatever the subject and supporting your incisive statements with the evidence you find. That's why you reached your conclusions as to the value of demonstrations.

Unfortunately most people are not like that. Take this particular event. What we saw here on the news was the guy smashing windows over and over, police "controlling" (as the media put it) unruly demonstrators and defending themselves and others from the more violent ones with nightsticks, dogs, and tear gas, including those students. That is it for most people, it is only a relative handful that investigate further and most of them are powerless to do anything corrective, even if they cared enough to try.

This thread pretty much makes my point. The Forum has approx. 66,000 members. This thread has had only 525 views, and only 46 replies, most of them you or Jessica or Aaron. Of the rest how many looked at all the video evidence, etc. that was presented? Whatever the number, only a few even commented on it.

Further, what did the demonstrators here accomplish? Nothing, as far as I can tell. I'm pretty sure the members of the G-20 already knew lots of people were unhappy with them and their positions on various topics, and this group had no more influence on them than any other as far as I could discern.

As to the police brutality, that is a local issue that the people of Pittsburgh could take action on, but I have heard no hue and cry to do it, even though the local issues are where the voters have the most control. That is where we must start weeding out the bull-filled choices the elite present , elect good people to office and help them work their way up through the ranks of their respective parties until they are in office in Washington,D.C. It will not happen overnight, but it is the only way. In the meantime, don't re-elect any one but those candidates.

I fully support the aims and efforts of those who want to protest against injustice etc., I just think they are going about it in the wrong fashion. It gives the media, the "men in black", or whoever a chance to twist and misrepresent what they are trying to do by whatever means they wish to employ. Many times they hurt their cause more than help it and in the end change nothing.

I agree that we must awaken at least enough of the public to carry through a plan as I have laid out if anything is to change. Those who care enough to demonstrate would surely make a good core to start with if they had good leaders to organize and lead them properly. I, for one, fully intend to do this here in the next election cycle as we finally have a candidate from outside the current political "clique" who is worth supporting.

"Go thou and do likewise".

Best wishes, Al
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:09 AM
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This thread pretty much makes my point. The Forum has approx. 66,000 members. This thread has had only 525 views, and only 46 replies, most of them you or Jessica or Aaron. Of the rest how many looked at all the video evidence, etc. that was presented? Whatever the number, only a few even commented on it.
Yes, good point, Al. The General Discussion area is not often viewed by visitors, who largely come here to view the Renewable Energy threads. I am also guilty of overlooking much that has been posted in the General Discussion area in the past, and that is probably due to the fact that my basic interest here has also been Renewable Energy. When I first found Energetic Forum, I set up a browser tab that is one of 8 that always open whenever I click the Internet Explorer icon, and it takes me directly to the Renewable Energy threads. Because of this, I don't usually notice the other topics of discussion unless I have responded to a private message and am leaving the message area to go back to the Forum threads. I suspect this is the same thing that happens with most other people, and the real reason why the General Discussion threads don't get many hits or replies.

The only good thing that may come out of the Pittsburgh protests is more public awareness. Nearly everyone these days spends time on the Internet and is exposed to alternative news viewpoints that just aren't shown in the mainstream media. If the Oath Keepers take note of what happened in Pittsburgh, and are willing to stand up for citizen rights and draw a "line in the sand" at the next likely point of confrontation, then protesting can be a very useful tool. If the Oath Keepers aren't willing to do this then I only see future protest activities becoming more angry, and police responses becoming more repressive.

Our two party system, and the methods by which campaigns are financed and politicians are elected and re-elected, ensures continued government corruption and unlikely dethronement of the powerful elite. Those who are now in office and hope to stay there will not enact meaningful campaign reform laws that would enable honest and competent individuals to compete on a level playing field and displace them. That just won't happen, Al, and unless we can somehow change the system then real and positive change will never come during our lifetimes.

Rick
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:25 AM
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Ok further update. I don't know the order of things here but apparently he was at some point given a bail option of $15k and it was raised and now he is under house arrest with electronic monitoring.

"He will be arraigned in December and the trial will probably be in March or April."
"House arrest?" I would take that to mean he has been allowed to return to his home in California. I wonder who came up with the bail money? And why are they allowing him 6 months to prepare his case, rather than proceeding with swift justice? I wouldn't be surprised to see him get a 6 month sentence at his April trial, with the intervening house arrest chalked up as time already served. What a sham.
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Old 10-07-2009, 07:45 PM
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I agree that we must awaken at least enough of the public to carry through a plan as I have laid out if anything is to change. Those who care enough to demonstrate would surely make a good core to start with if they had good leaders to organize and lead them properly. I, for one, fully intend to do this here in the next election cycle as we finally have a candidate from outside the current political "clique" who is worth supporting.
You guys are exactly right. It truly is sad how few people even take the time to participate in local elections, hell only a fraction vote for the presidency.

To vote for local politians in my city you have to go through an elementary school maze to find the library which is always empty except for 2-3 people who run the machines...This comming from a city with 1-2 Million residents.

So many people just dont care that theyre country is being changed beneath theyre feet. We had a Tea Party here with about 10,000 people...It was the first protest i've ever been to, but i guaruntee it wont be my last. Each one of us that are the wiser need to recruit all of our friends and family to get to the polls everytime to kick these corrupt politicans out of OUR office.
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Old 10-07-2009, 07:52 PM
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Guilty?

Hello Rick;

Quote:
Yes, good point, Al. The General Discussion area is not often viewed by visitors, who largely come here to view the Renewable Energy threads. I am also guilty of overlooking much that has been posted in the General Discussion area in the past, and that is probably due to the fact that my basic interest here has also been Renewable Energy. When I first found Energetic Forum, I set up a browser tab that is one of 8 that always open whenever I click the Internet Explorer icon, and it takes me directly to the Renewable Energy threads. Because of this, I don't usually notice the other topics of discussion unless I have responded to a private message and am leaving the message area to go back to the Forum threads. I suspect this is the same thing that happens with most other people, and the real reason why the General Discussion threads don't get many hits or replies.
Well, if that's the worst you are guilty of you are in better shape than most of us.
But that does point up one problem we all have, not enough time to do all we need to do or would like to do. The elite know this and take advantage of it, even manipulate the system to keep it that way so we have no time to work on removing them from power. And of course they manipulate the media to deflect our attention to non-issues so the focus of fighting them is lost.

"It's hard to remember your original goal was to drain the swamp when your up to your hips in alligators".

So, as I stated before, seems like the best way to fight them is from the grass roots upward. There are many patriotic groups like The Oath Keepers that should link up and act in unison; strength in numbers. Find good local candidates and help them upwards. Groups like The Oath Keepers probably have enough self-control to demonstrate peacefully. As you stated, large groups in uniform standing silently and peacefully would make a powerful statement, drawing the right kind of media attention and attracting the right kind of people to join them. But they also need to work as a group for worthy candidates and get them elected.That's the American way and it will work over time if we avoid inflammatory rhetoric within the groups and stick to working on the main cause: taking our country back from the elite power structure.

Best regards, Al

P.S. The post from Nadda came in while I was writing this reply. I had forgotten The Tea Party; another good group to unite with. We have had several local events, all of which were a great success and were hardly mentioned by the local press. Does'nt matter, word is spreading and elections are coming.
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Old 10-07-2009, 11:55 PM
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Re: grassroots efforts

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Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
seems like the best way to fight them is from the grass roots upward.
Yes, I agree. However, we witnessed enormous grassroots efforts in our latest presidential election which failed to bring about positive change. The public was ready for change, and screaming for it. They were ready to elect anyone who promised change, and the most successful candidate was the one who promised the most changes. Alas, those promises have not been kept.

Obama was not the only candidate who garnered strong grassroots support. Grassroots fundraising efforts to nominate Ron Paul were quite successful too, in that on November 5, 2007, Republican presidential condidate Ron Paul set a single day fundraising record, by raising $4.3 million within a 24-hour period. But even though the people clearly backed him solidly, the Republican leadership saw to it that he would not receive the nomination. That's because Ron bucked the party line on several issues, and was perceived as a threat to the Federal Reserve system and big government. Ron was also the first member of Congress to propose term limits for the House. If Ron had run as an independent candidate, he at least would have been placed on the ballot. Paul did run on the Libertarian ticket in 1988, and placed third in the election. Generally, the Libertarian party, and other non-major parties, just don't have the clout to overcome Democrat and Republican opposition. And even if an independent candidate could be successfully elected to the presidency, he or she would be a lame duck president unless like minded independents could be elected to fill all House and Senate seats. House and Senate elections are staggered to prevent such a possibility. The powerful elite have all the angles figured out, and very effective contingency plans to handle any situation. If a candidate is seen as threatening to their ideals, they will stop at nothing to quash that person. They will dig up dirt or manufacture it, and will use their power and influence over mass media to deflate public enthusiasm for the candidate. And if all else fails, the candidate can meet an untimely demise in what will be touted as an unfortunate accident. We all personally know someone of sound mind and integrity who would be the kind of person we would like to see get elected, but these people are smart enough to realize what they would be up against and generally aren't willing to place themselves and their families at such high risk. Then too, they are disgusted with the blatant corruption of the political machine, and don't want to be seen as a part of it. Washington outsiders who may be lucky enough to become elected representatives are in nearly all cases either Republican or Democrat. They don't get the opportunity to run for a seat without the approval of their party, and their party's backers - the power elite. Getting there requires a lot of ass kissing and political promises. Those who go against the grain and don't keep those promises are quickly eliminated - one way or another.

I have always exercised my voting rights in all municipal, state, and federal elections, but I firmly believe that the right to vote means very little as long as our political system remains under the control of ruthless tyrants. How to wrest control away from them, and place it in the hands of the people, is the real question that needs to be answered. I just don't see it happening through our votes, and time is definitely not in our favor. We are running out of time, and standing on the brink of financial and social collapse and chaos. Of course that in itself will bring about change, but it won't be pretty. At this point I'm not quite sure what can possibly bring about positive change before it is too late, but I do remain hopeful and active in seeking a way.

Best wishes to you Al,

Rick

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Old 10-08-2009, 05:30 AM
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ANTIQUER ANTIQUER is offline
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Enough time?

Hi Rick;

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Yes, I agree. However, we witnessed enormous grassroots efforts in our latest presidential election which failed to bring about positive change. The public was ready for change, and screaming for it. They were ready to elect anyone who promised change, and the most successful candidate was the one who promised the most changes
Absolutely! However, the rest of your posting shows a big part of the problem. Too many scattered grass root efforts. "United we stand, divided we fall". We must drop the bickering over minor issues and focus on one or two candidates of our choosing that are correct on most major issues,at least. If that had happened last election we could have put Ron Paul or the governor from Arkansas (former Baptist pastor, sorry his name escapes me at the moment) or even Sarah Pallin (couldn't be any worse) in office. But we really need to focus on the Congress, they make the laws and control the money. This focusing on who the next president will be while practically ignoring the other races is a ploy by the elite to keep control of the real power by distraction. We here heard nothing about the congressional races last time until 2 weeks before the vote, and even then very little actual campaigning.

The problem with the grass root campaign has two major facets1) you must have good leadership which can pull these various groups together ;(2) you must educate the electorate to the truth and to ignore mud-slinging, etc. I know that's a tremendous uphill battle, but you actually only need a small number of votes to win as currently elections are won or lost by such a small percentage. (P.S.- I didn't put that purple face in there and I can't get rid of it!)

As for the current winner it's a little early to tell how we are eventually going to fare under his leadership, but I think you are correct in expecting the worst. It might work to our advantage next time as I expect a lot of people who voted for him and other liberals will be so disgusted they will come to their senses and throw liberals of both parties out. Anyhow, we can always hope and pray. Prayer is one tool the elite don't have and can be very effective if coupled with repentance, which is also sorely needed in our country.(remember Nebuchadnezzar; Daniel 5:17-21 for any who don't)

Actually I have an inner conflict over this. As an American I want the best for our country and people and want to strive toward that end. As a Christian I Know this madness and evil are signs of what will happen as we grow nearer to the second coming of Jesus, and it will only get worse.

Another sign he mentioned (Matt.24:6 & 7) was the increase in earthquakes and their severity. Just saw reports of 3 more in So. Pacific today. The U.S. Geological Survey a few years ago went back several thousand years and charted their frequency up to the present (at that time). The graph showed for the last 30 years the line of the upward curve (increasing frequency) looked like a jet's wake as he took off from a carrier during a maximum alert scramble, and the rate of climb has increased until he is going nearly straight up. The biggest reason I really like this sign is mankind has absolutely no effect on it. You can argue global warming, but earthquakes?

To sum up I think we can turn things around by starting at a local level, given enough time. I don't believe we can do it by focusing on things at a national level without first establishing things on a local level, as we have seen. That's to easy for the enemy to de-rail, so for the next election we should focus on local levels and maybe a few Congressional seats. Don't re-elect anyone then, and see where we are in 2012. Maybe we can establish enough of a base by then to swing more seats or even the presidency if people are disgusted enough. After all, "you can't fool all of the people all of the time".

Until next time,

Al
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Old 10-08-2009, 08:58 AM
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next election

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Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
for the next election we should focus on local levels and maybe a few Congressional seats. Don't re-elect anyone then, and see where we are in 2012. Maybe we can establish enough of a base by then to swing more seats or even the presidency if people are disgusted enough. After all, "you can't fool all of the people all of the time".
You're right, Al. We both realize that the biggest problem is in educating and organizing people to act in unison. I think that will be difficult to achieve until everyone's health, freedom, and finances are in great peril, because so many people live in denial of truths that are self evident. People will be difficult to organize to act in unison until they realize that we are all in the same boat.

There are two senators in my state that definitely need to go. As you may remember, Maine senators Snowe and Collins, along with Harry Reid of Nevada, could have stopped the "Economic Stimulus" bill dead in its tracks. Though both Snowe and Collins are Republican Party members, they quite often vote as moderates or liberals. It seems as though they always wait until the last minute to vote, as they want to be seen as voting with a clear majority on all issues - in other words, the winning side. You would be right if you guessed that they haven't cosigned the "Audit the Fed" bill yet. They haven't even bothered to answer my pleas to do that. In other matters where they actually have sent me a reply, it is just a form letter and usually does not address my concerns at all. The problem in getting them out of office is that Republicans will vote for them simply because they are always the Republican candidates on the ballot, and Democrats also vote for them because they are happy with the senators' liberal voting records. Thus, they always win in a landslide election that an independent candidate has no chance in hell of overturning. I wish that senators and congressmen had 2 year term limits, and that they all expired at the same time, but we will never see our representatives pass that law. Any suggestions, Al?

Rick
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:01 AM
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This is take on the last election. We started out with a number of candidates for president; a few of them could have probably been very good. Plus we had a good grassroots movement demanding change. Thus you would have expected to see real change. This obviously did not happen.

What did happen was those who are really in control of the government and with their control of the media quickly dismissed the validity of all the candidates that they didnít like. These candidatesí positions were ether ridiculed or if they were stating to make sense they were just simply ignored and majority of people were not allowed to hear their ideas.

Meanwhile we were treated to unstop coverage of McCain, Hillary and Obama who were portrayed as the only ones who were truly worthy of being president. Naturally everyone was encouraged to go out and wave their red and blue flags and cheer on their team. The issues didnít matter the only concern was to keep everyone arguing over who was better tweedledee or tweedledum. That way the sheeple could be distracted and prevented from asking serious questions.

This worked perfectly for the powers-that-be in that they could care less whether the winner has an ďRĒ or a ďDĒ after their name all that matters is if that person will follow their orders and do their bidding.
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Old 10-09-2009, 07:29 AM
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Ideas?

Hi Rick;

Well, I think this is one of those situations where you shift your focus to local or state officials and help them work up through the system. And try to get the local organizations that are right-minded to pool their efforts for the next election. I am not naive and know this in itself is difficult, but I feel this is the only way that will work, given time.

I did a quick check on Snowe and Collins. Snowe is not up for election until 2012. Collins was re-elected in the last election, so she is safe for another 5 years. Although there is some opposition to them, they seem to be held in high esteem by the majority of the sheeple. Snowe was ranked #1 Senator in the senate in 2005 based on a constituent survey done in all 50 states, and of all Senators. They both worked their way up through the ranks of the Republican party and seem to be firmly entrenched. I guess you could exercise the prayer option and maybe a tree might fall on at least one of them , but in the current situation a campaign against either would probably be an exercise in futility.

But Reid?; I'm surprised you thought he might try to stop the stimulus bill. As a liberal Democrat and leader of the liberal majority he will never vote to stop anything Obama and his party are for. I don't mistake his "Uncle Harry" character for anything but what it is; a publicity act for the benefit of the sheeple.(Thanks to Mad Scientist; I had forgotten one of my old favorite terms)

Anyhow, how about your Representatives if you want to replace a U.S. Congressional seat? Are any of them less popular and worthy of unseating?

As to expecting anything other than a form letter as a reply you can forget it. I have a cousin who was a personal aide to a U.S. senator. The mail came in(this was a little before e-mail, but the same process is used there today) and was initially sorted by aides as to content(foreign or domestic) , then those piles were sorted by issue. Then they were scanned by aides familiar with that area of interest into plus or minus, pro or con. Then to a personal aid who scanned a few, usually these were the ones on Corporate, Bank,Union, etc. letterhead.( With e-mails today they are electronically scanned and a form letter response is automatically generated.) These were the only ones that had a chance of anything resembling a personal reply as that aide would then give them to the Senator with a recommendation . The rest where just counted in the pro or con totals for any given issue. These representatives are so well insulated and protected from the public about the only chance to meet one is at the local town hall meetings they hold occasionally.

On that front here's a video you might find amusing;

Freedom's Lighthouse: Man Calls for Resignation of Maine Senators Snowe and Collins as He Talks to Pictures at Town Hall - Video

So my suggestions are same as before, maybe a little more detail. Each seat has to be selected and handled individually as local and/or national conditions dictate. Maybe by 2012 or even a little by 2010 enough of the sheeple will realize we are all in the same boat and will be ready to mutiny against the current captain and his motley crew.

with regards,

Al
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Old 10-09-2009, 08:18 AM
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ANTIQUER ANTIQUER is offline
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Grassroots campaigning

Hi Mad Scientist;

As I discussed with Rick, the grass root movements were split among to many candidates. I won't go through the Democrats as I don't think any of them should have won as I feared what is happening would happen if one of them won; a liberal tea party with the guests running amok.

On the Republican side the momentum should have immediately focused on Ron Paul, Pallin and Huckabee. The rest were only "wanna-be's" and were not really viable candidates for various reasons. McCain had plenty of support from the party elite so the other three should have been supported by the grass root movements until it was obvious which had the best chance in the primary. That enables a much more effective campaign against the forces of the elite. Again, we must focus on major issues for now and compromise on smaller ones among the various groups and not fall prey to the "divide and conquer" strategy of the elite. We have to get people to stick to decisions based on records, etc., not mud-slinging, unfounded rumors, implied racism, mis-interpretation of candidates remarks, and all the other dirty tricks they pull out of their bag, especially in the last 10 days (or less) of the campaign.

We must also remember in detail all the nonsense going on now so that when it fails we can remind people of it in 2010 and 2012 and who voted for or supported it. The media mostly will not.

Your analysis of the last election was generally correct. If you wish to avoid another debacle like that start implementing some of my suggestions. We hopefully have no where to go but up. I certainly think we could not do any worse.

Al
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Old 10-09-2009, 06:54 PM
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Oath Keepers

Here is Oath Keepers forum and state group list. You have to join their ning forum to see it - it is free.

Oath Keepers - Oath Keepers Forum & Groups

I do enjoy all the messages in this thread but we do need more focus
on the Oath Keepers organization and movement.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ANTIQUER View Post
Reid?; I'm surprised you thought he might try to stop the stimulus bill.
I never thought or expected that Reid would vote against the stimulus Bill, Al. I merely pointed out that Reid, Collins, and Snowe were the last holdouts to vote, and could have thwarted the bill if they had voted against it. Therefore, these people, while not alone in voting as they did, were the deciding factor in passage of the bill, and I see their actions as the most reprehensible of all.

Snowe and Collins are again holdouts, and amongst a small group of senators who have not yet cosponsored the "Audit the Fed" bill. Neither have they made their position on the "Obamacare" bill clearly known. They have ignored my requests concerning these issues, and have failed to respond with any answers. Of course that's pretty much what I had expected of them, and I'm just stating the facts.

Thanks for the video link. I did find it enjoyable to watch someone in a public meeting demanding that Snowe and Collins resign. You can see that senator Snowe's own secretary admitted that 85% of constituents who contacted her regarding the stimulus bill requested that she vote against it, but she ignored those requests. And neither Snowe nor Collins even read the stimulus bill before voting on it. What a sham! I know this sort of thing has happened everywhere, and not just in Maine. The public is not fairly represented, and our interests and rights are thus not guaranteed or protected, no matter what the Constitution says.
Freedom's Lighthouse: Man Calls for Resignation of Maine Senators Snowe and Collins as He Talks to Pictures at Town Hall - Video


Best regards,

Rick
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
I do enjoy all the messages in this thread but we do need more focus on the Oath Keepers organization and movement.
I agree, Aaron. We do seem to be getting a bit off topic, and some of the posts would better be reserved for a separate thread titled "Government Corruption, and what we can do about it," or something along those lines. We really should be focusing attention here on the Oath Keepers - specifically what they stand for, what they say they will or will not do, and the extent of what they are willing to do to actively defend the Constitution and citizen rights. To that end I recently posted 3 comments at the Oath Keepers website, hoping to see a reply from them as to what they actually are willing to do to protect our freedoms and defend the Constitution. So far, of course, they have only openly declared what they will not do when facing unconstitutional orders. I made specific recommendations to them, as I have done here, and asked two questions:
  1. Why did they not seize the opportunity at Pittsburgh to defend the Constitution, and citizens rights?
  2. Are they willing to appear at the next likely point of conflict, and draw a line in the sand there?
I think these questions are important ones, and deserving of answers. To my way of thinking, it would be far more effective to actively take a stand against tyranny now, rather than to wait for an opportunity to disobey unconstitutional orders. When those orders come, the situation will already have sunken into chaos.

Not seeing a direct answer to my comments as posted on the Oath Keepers website, I then used the Contact link at their website to submit an e-mail message. I still have not received any reply to that, but am still hoping that I will, and will post that reply here if and when received. I was polite in my request to them, and made it clear that I was supportive of their efforts, so see no reason why they would not answer me. I told them that I realize they are probably very busy, but that I feel this issue is very important. I hope they do respond, because I felt very encouraged after you posted this thread and I visited their website. Similar e-mails, from others here, might help to encourage a response from the Oath Keepers, and I hope that readers will follow through on that suggestion. The e-mail Contact link can be found here:
Oath Keepers Ľ oathkeepers Contact


Best regards,

Rick
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Last edited by rickoff; 10-09-2009 at 11:49 PM. Reason: sp
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:20 AM
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I am an oath keeper

I joined the military and I still keep the oath to protect the USA from all threats foreign and domestic,
I also open carry and I donít need a license.
I also wrote the second amendment preservation ordinance for my county.
America the Beautiful!!
Democrats in office the ugly!!
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Old 05-21-2019, 03:48 PM
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How many?

How many members today are oath keeers?
Danny B? Vinyasa? Alien Burdress?
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