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  #601  
Old 10-23-2018, 03:20 PM
Selfsimilarity Selfsimilarity is offline
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Originally Posted by Markoul View Post
Agreed.

But all these vortices you show are irrotatioanal.

In a rotational vortex angular speed increases as you go further away from the vortex eye.

The period of circulation is therefore the same for every ring trajectory.

Also if the vortex on a magnet were rotational the inverse cube law with distance would not apply.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex

EM
How do you interpret the video I posted above where the iron cylinder does not create a vortex under current but it does with a neodym magnet?

Wouldnt this lead to an understanding of magnetic vortecies also spinning, as current is present in both setups therefor cant be responsible for the observed spin, but the magnet is making the difference, responsible for the spinning water bubbles in the experiment. Any explanations for the observed phenomena?
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  #602  
Old 10-25-2018, 04:29 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Definition of magnetic field

✓For these reasons many books and publications on magnetism either do not give definition at all or use similar definition as given above in this article. Typical examples are quoted in the table below.

Publication Definition of magnetics field
Richard M. Bozorth
Ferromagnetism5)
A magnet will attract a piece of iron even though the two are not in contact, and this action-at-a-distance is said to be caused by the magnetic field, or field of force.
Soshin Chikazumi
Physics of Ferromagnetism6)
Generally a region of space in which a magnetic pole experiences an applied force is called a magnetic field.
David C. Jiles
Introduction to Magnetism and Magnetic Materials7)
One of the most fundamental ideas in magnetism is the concept of the magnetic field. When a field is generated in a volume of space it means that there is a change of energy of that volume, and furthermore that there is an energy gradient so that a force is produced which can be detected by the acceleration of an electric charge moving in the field, by the force on a current-carrying conductor, by the torque on a magnetic dipole such as a bar magnet or even by a reorientation of spins of electrons within certain types of atoms.
Magnetic field
Encyclopaedia Britannica8)
Magnetic field, region in the neighbourhood of a magnetic, electric current, or changing electric field, in which magnetic forces are observable.
Tai L. Chow
Introduction to Electromagnetic Theory: A Modern Perspective9)
The definition of the magnetic field is slightly more difficult do formulate. [] Magnetic forces only acting on moving charges, so it is natural to magnetic force F exerted on a positive charge q whose velocity is v to define B.
S.K Gupta
Electro Magnetic Field Theory10)
[] magnetic interactions can also be described in two steps: First, the moving charge (source) produce a magnetic field. Second, this magnetic field interacts with other moving charges, called objects, to produce the magnetic force on the objects.
V.A.Bakshi, A.V.Bakshi
Electromagnetic Field Theory11)
The region around a magnet within which the influence of the magnet can be experienced is called magnetic field.


✓---✓ Copied from: Magnetic field [Encyclopedia Magnetica]

I thought the article was good but incomplete.

Just information.

bi
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  #603  
Old 10-25-2018, 07:59 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selfsimilarity View Post
How do you interpret the video I posted above where the iron cylinder does not create a vortex under current but it does with a neodym magnet?

Wouldnt this lead to an understanding of magnetic vortecies also spinning, as current is present in both setups therefor cant be responsible for the observed spin, but the magnet is making the difference, responsible for the spinning water bubbles in the experiment. Any explanations for the observed phenomena?
https://youtu.be/d5Nr3aMxQ0Y

The first simple motor explains it, I think

John
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  #604  
Old 10-25-2018, 11:24 PM
Selfsimilarity Selfsimilarity is offline
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Hey John,
how does that explain anything? it just shows the same effect.
The video i was refering to was

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaMf1aq6Njg

The question remains why there is spin to be observed in:
magnetism +electric current

and no spin with iron cylinder + electric current.

As electric current is present in both experiments, the observed spin must be an effect solely of the magnetic field independent of electric current. Electric current just make it visible due to water hydrolysis creating bubbles. Therefore i would dare to conclude that magnetic fields do not seem to be static but spinning. To go further, the magnetic field is two spins in opposed rotations forming an opposed spin equilibrium as observable with ferrocell or hurricane dynamics, as i elaborated in earlier posts.
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  #605  
Old 10-26-2018, 03:26 AM
bistander bistander is offline
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Hope John doesn't mind

The vid, first demo, is interesting.
http://www.energeticforum.com/redire...%2Fd5Nr3aMxQ0Y
Looks like the homopolar principle of Faraday disc.

Self's video: The iron cylinder is not magnetized so brings no magnetic field to the experiment. The magnet obviously does have a magnetic field, which is static. The rotation of the liquid occurs due to Lorentz forces on the charges moving in the liquid along with the bubbles in that static magnetic field.

Regards,

bi
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  #606  
Old 10-26-2018, 07:52 AM
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This will tax your brains!!

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...sPDFptfQE05Jm3
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  #607  
Old 10-26-2018, 08:21 AM
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Forces.

https://youtu.be/nRDVm5rn_2A
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  #608  
Old 10-26-2018, 10:12 AM
Selfsimilarity Selfsimilarity is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
The vid, first demo, is interesting.
http://www.energeticforum.com/redire...%2Fd5Nr3aMxQ0Y
Looks like the homopolar principle of Faraday disc.

Self's video: The iron cylinder is not magnetized so brings no magnetic field to the experiment. The magnet obviously does have a magnetic field, which is static. The rotation of the liquid occurs due to Lorentz forces on the charges moving in the liquid along with the bubbles in that static magnetic field.

Regards,

bi
Well bi, by holding the point that the permanent magnetic field is static, you remain in the realm of the standard model's 4%, not being able to tap the 96% dark that is predicted but never found. We miss a huge amount of energy in our current understanding (dark energy)... Nothing is static in the universe, and the ferrocell shows you exactely that. What you call static is two magnetic waves, overlapping in such a way that standing wave patterns appear. Look at the image above, there is obviously 2 spins with opposed spin orientation, which create the standing magnetic wave, WHICH IS NOT STATIC Magnetic dynamics is fundamental and im very convinced that its correct understanding can replace the "dark" 96% predicted by standard model, accounting for the missing energy understanding.

Even in the video you posted about Lorenz Force
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRDV...ature=youtu.be
they come up with the opposed "moving" dynamics: electrons moving from negative to positive (yellow particles), "however" electric current is thought to be moving from positive to negative "illustrated using red particles". (Video 0.30min to 0.50min)

There are more right handed people than left handed people. Earth turns eastwards (to the right), yet there is the other spin too, just in reduced frequency. The opposed spin equilibrium can be applied to absolutely everything in the universe, and ferrocell shows it like never before. Its magnetism dynamics, nothing static after all, nothing dark, as with ferrocell, its illuminated, made visible, these standing waves only seem static when equilibrated. I think their equilibrium is not if both spins are equal like we are used to it in a 50:50 ratio, but if they are in PHI/golden-ratio 1:1.6181033.
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  #609  
Old 10-28-2018, 12:19 AM
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Markoul Markoul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selfsimilarity View Post
Markoul, im not so sure if its not rotational.
Why else would a iron cylinder not produce a vortex in water when electrified but a neodymironboron permanent magnet does?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaMf1aq6Njg

The difference is the coherent spin present in atoms of permanent magnet. The coherency creates the scaling effect of the field. Every atom is most likely like an electrified permanent magnet, but as spins are non-coherent, the field rests on the size of the atom, only through spin alignment, the spin-field is scaled/amplified into macroscopic size as seen in video or tornado or spiral galaxy.

In a magnet, there must be always 2 spins, 2 opposed spins, one CW and one CCW in an equilibrium. Appearing static when equilibrated (standing wave), moving if non-equilibrated (superimposed waves of standing waves, doppler-effect). If one of the two spins is stronger than the other, it rotates. The larger the spin difference, the faster the motion. Every object in the universe has a dominant net spin of two spins, just like the earth turns clockwise, yet there is counterclockwise motion present at the same time, just in reduced amount in comparison to its main dominant clockwise motion.



Notice the two spins? How one is dominant, yet there is the weaker one present as well? One is "sucking"/aspirating/compressing, the other is radiating/expanding?
Like our breath or our heart, compression - expansion - compression - expansion -->how the toroid pulses. The wave would be from one breath to the next one, this pulse velocity is the frequency, scale through spin coherency is the standing wave's amplitude
Everything in nature works according to this opposed spin equilibrium
SSML,

I really I've lost you here.

Irrotational doesn't mean that it is not rotating.

You better look for the term on the net.
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  #610  
Old 10-28-2018, 12:39 AM
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That's not the ****ing Lorentz force

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  #611  
Old 10-28-2018, 09:13 AM
Selfsimilarity Selfsimilarity is offline
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Ahh I see Markoul,

I looked it up, I really misunderstood the term I thought you ment not-rotating!

Further, Im happy that you agree with the video showing the magnetic vortex that its not the Lorenz Transformation responsible for the spinning dynamics.
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  #612  
Old 10-28-2018, 10:02 AM
Selfsimilarity Selfsimilarity is offline
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What do you guys know about Fractality?
We must understand it to be able to fully uncover magnetism

Here is a great video of a scientist studying mandelbrot fractal since 1985.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lTLkxLaHQY
Mandelbrot is the fractal that fits a universe model best.


It has the cardiod, that appears over and over in mathematics integrated into its geometry.

Have a look at min 20 to min 22.
We can see the magnetic poles and their spin-dynamcis on the image on the right.

Love the mandelbrot set
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  #613  
Old 10-28-2018, 10:11 AM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Nice twist.

https://youtu.be/bSIzyk5Mjko
John.
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  #614  
Old 10-28-2018, 10:39 AM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Naked scientist.

So, ignoring quantum theory (because it doesn't generate useful answers) and string theory (because it is too immature), we must fall back on older theories like Maxwell's equations and Einsteins' Relativity.
In theory, the static magnetic field from a magnet extends to infinity (but gets rapidly weaker with distance, like distance4)
From geometry, if you rotate the magnet, the farther parts of the static field will be moving faster than nearer parts.
Special Relativity says that the magnetic field cannot move faster than the speed of light, so the shape of distant parts of it will be distorted.
Maxwell says that if you accelerate a magnetic field (and rotating it is a form of acceleration), you will produce stable transverse electromagnetic waves that separate from the static field, and continue on to infinity (getting weaker with distance, like distance2). Today we identify these waves with photons.
General relativity includes gravitation, and says that the path of photons is bent by the curvature of space, and experience time dilation in gravitational wells (which is equivalent to the blue/red shift described by puppypower).
These gravitational effects are extremely subtle near the Earth, and still hard to spot in the Sun's much deeper gravitational well.
To see a significant impact on a short-range experiment like a spinning magnetic field, you would need to get very close to the event horizon of a black hole.
In this environment, the shape of the near-field magnetic field will be distorted by time dilation.
Some of the emitted photons will go into orbit around the black hole, and some will enter the black hole, never to return.
But lets face it - a lot of our theories become rather uncertain extrapolations near the event horizon of a black hole!
John.
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  #615  
Old 10-28-2018, 07:24 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Hysterons

Maybe ferrocells are showing us ferroelectric behavior instead of ferromagnetic.

https://www.sciencealert.com/hypothe...cle-discovered
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  #616  
Old 11-02-2018, 09:07 AM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Fizzled out!

The Ferrocell seems to have died out, yet again!
I found this interesting.
Grandchildren have toy trains that couple in any order.
I was puzzled..
See image, simple when you know how.
!sketch-1541148833805.jpg

John.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg sketch-1541148833805.jpg (25.1 KB, 11 views)
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  #617  
Old 11-02-2018, 09:48 AM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Wrong?

SERF magnetometer achieves very high magnetic field sensitivity by monitoring a high density vapor of alkali metal atoms precessing in a near-zero magnetic field.[2] The sensitivity of SERF magnetometers improves upon traditional atomic magnetometers by eliminating the dominant cause of atomic spin decoherence caused by spin-exchange collisions among the alkali metal atoms. SERF magnetometers are among the most sensitive magnetic field sensors and in some cases exceed the performance of SQUID detectors of equivalent size. A small 1 cm3 volume glass cell containing potassium vapor has reported 1 fT/√Hz sensitivity and can theoretically become even more sensitive with larger volumes.[3] They are vector magnetometers capable of measuring all three components of the magnetic field simultaneously
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  #618  
Old 11-04-2018, 11:41 PM
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Question.

Is there anybody out there??
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  #619  
Old 11-05-2018, 04:23 AM
aljhoa aljhoa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
Maybe ferrocells are showing us ferroelectric behavior instead of ferromagnetic.

https://www.sciencealert.com/hypothe...cle-discovered
VIDEO 111 UNCOVERING SECRETS OF MAGNETISM
VIDEO 112 UNCOVERING SECRETS OF MAGNETISM


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  #620  
Old 11-05-2018, 12:24 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Eddy

Hi Al,

Eddy currents.



You can clearly see how the magnetic field concentrates near the outer edge of the pole face of the magnet. The strong field induces more and stronger eddies in the moving brass. Near the center of the pole face the magnetic field diminishs and induces little eddies in the spinning brass.

Regards,

bi
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  #621  
Old 11-05-2018, 04:24 PM
aljhoa aljhoa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post

You can clearly see how the magnetic field concentrates near the outer edge of the pole face of the magnet.
Monster magnet meets magnetic fluid


Al
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  #622  
Old 11-05-2018, 11:06 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Dictionary.

There's no way I can see there being a vortex involved in
the field perturbation caused by a permanent magnet.

(in Cartesian philosophy) a rapid rotatory movement of cosmic matter about a center, regarded as accounting for the origin or phenomena of bodies or systems of bodies in space.

The bodies in space appear to get angular momentum from gravitational means.
For all intents and purposes, as far as I can see, a permanent magnet is a dead
thing, just like a spring, any work done is put there by the hand of the experimenter.

John.
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  #623  
Old 11-06-2018, 04:36 AM
aljhoa aljhoa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
There's no way I can see there being a vortex involved in
the field perturbation caused by a permanent magnet.

(in Cartesian philosophy) a rapid rotatory movement of cosmic matter about a center, regarded as accounting for the origin or phenomena of bodies or systems of bodies in space.

Graphic depiction of the magnetic field around a D82 disc magnet
Magnets Are Weird


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  #624  
Old 11-06-2018, 11:34 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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What's the question?

The question is, does a Ferrocell show us a unique view of
magnetism?
After looking at available evidence I can't see anything to
indicate that it does.
In my view there is no vortex, a vortex is a dynamic thing
and of necessity that would show up as an energy source.
And as we well know, a permanent magnet isn't an energy
source.
Come on you guys out there, show me I'm wrong, I'd love
to be proved wrong.
John.
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  #625  
Old 11-07-2018, 04:09 PM
aljhoa aljhoa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
The question is, does a Ferrocell show us a unique view of
magnetism?
After looking at available evidence I can't see anything to
indicate that it does.
In my view there is no vortex, a vortex is a dynamic thing
and of necessity that would show up as an energy source.
And as we well know, a permanent magnet isn't an energy
source.
Come on you guys out there, show me I'm wrong, I'd love
to be proved wrong.
John.
https://magnetismtoroidaldynamics.com/
https://magnetismtoroidaldynamics.co...t-electricity/


Al
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  #626  
Old 11-07-2018, 05:07 PM
bistander bistander is offline
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Interesting quote

A quote from second link:

Quote:
Noone has published any answers so far to what we observe when looking at a permanent magnet through ferrocell, its not understood. It doesnt show the magnetic field as we currently understand it:
bi
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  #627  
Old 11-07-2018, 06:30 PM
Selfsimilarity Selfsimilarity is offline
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Well guys, since we dont understand what can be observed in ferrocell, we should focus on the individual parameters present in the ferrocell.

Its up to us.
Ferrocell has permanent magnetism and light in one experiment. Without either of them, the effect cant be observed.

Therefore, its up to us to decide, whether we dont understand magnetism, or we dont understand light, or even the both of them

What i see:
-point geometric constructive destructive wave interferrence (wheter an effect of light or an effect of magnetism or the both remains to be proven)

-A toroidal point-symmetric pattern
- Nothing like we understand of electric nor magnetic field symmetry, yet its an effect of light+magnetism, whereas light is an EM-wave. So - do we understand EM fields?

-My conclusion, no we dont. If we would, we could explain the geometric pattern of a magnet under ferrocell.
Why do we think there is magnetism without electricity and electricity without magnetism and electromagnetism? Isnt it logic to think there is only electromagnetism, and what we think of isolated electricity and magnetism is simply an incomplete understanding of electromagnetism?

According to platonic retroduction, there can only be one thing in a unified theory.
Electromagnetism, which is fields of ether, opposed spinning/pulsing point-sourced waves that do something. To ask in general what something is should rather be what something does Waves do things, particles dont.
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  #628  
Old 11-08-2018, 02:30 AM
aljhoa aljhoa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistander View Post
A FULL quote from second link:
Noone has published any answers so far to what we observe when looking at a permanent magnet through ferrocell, its not understood. It doesnt show the magnetic field as we currently understand it:

The full magnetic field symmetry is only visible (illuminated), when energy such as photons (ferrocell) or electrons (CRT) are applied.

The ferrocell reveals the electromagnetic field to include permanent opposed spins and standing wave patterns!
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  #629  
Old 11-08-2018, 02:36 PM
Iamnuts Iamnuts is offline
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Faraday.

I didn't realise Faraday had got this far.


https://youtu.be/XhU-nNiAgtI
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  #630  
Old 11-08-2018, 03:11 PM
aljhoa aljhoa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamnuts View Post
I didn't realise Faraday had got this far.
https://youtu.be/XhU-nNiAgtI
MICHAEL FARADAY ON THE STRUCTURE OF THE AETHER, AND THE NATURE OF ACTION-AT-A-DISTANCE


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