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Discussion. Best way to use heat from HHO to generate electricity

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  • Slovenia post from OU(Post #181)

    I figured it out!!

    Power To Be Questions from yesterday (Posed March 18, 2011)

    1.) What material and geometry exhibits excellent acoustic harmonic qualities?
    Use this for your atomizing chamber!!

    The atomizing chamber must be in the shape of an acoustic horn and the material used must be brass.

    2.) How do you adhere crystals to other surfaces?

    Water proof epoxy

    3.) How do you harvest ultrasonic waves, what shape or geometry should you make the collector?

    The receiver, collector, must be in the shape of a bowl. I noticed the bowls at the top of Power1's diagram and they really puzzled me. Well, I finally figured out what they were and why they were there. So, the zinc crystals are not in the water at all but coated on the inside of the bowls at the top of the cell.


    The transducers are at the bottom of the cell and there are two of them one on each side spaced accordingly. They are aimed at the bowls, collectors, at the top of the cell. The bowls are coated with the zinc crystals. So, the water is atomized at the bottom of the cell with the transducers and they are harmonically aimed with a brass acoustical horn at the bowls, collectors, at the top of the cell. So, guys we have it.


    • Crystal Oscillator

      So guys,

      Right now I'm working on the crystal oscillator. Power1 said to use a vintage crystal oscillator circuit and I haven't found what I want to use yet. He said they were very easy to build. So, I'm looking for an easy to build circuit that is also effective. I've been studying John Worrell Keely books.

      Feel free to jump in here!!


      • Acoustic Horn & Receiver Relationship (Power1's Diagram)

        Acoustic Horn & Receiver Relationship (Power1's Diagram)


        • Thanks Powerme and Slovenia

          Thanks Slovenia for keeping this thread alive. My ultrasonic humidifier has come
          in but have not picked it up yet. Was going to let my sister use it for its actual
          purpose first since she has allergies to see if its better than her regular humidifier. Busy with other things right now anyway.



          • Thanks!!

            Hi FRC,

            Great to hear from you FRC. I think we're cooking with gas now. I'm in the process of designing my pvc cell housing now. I'm going to design it with cell maintenance in mind. So access to internal working parts will be easy in case I decide to change some internals out for whatever reason. I'm starting to get very excited now about this project and where it might lead. Thanks for your encouragement and for what you have shared.

            Best Regards,

            Originally posted by FRC View Post
            Thanks Slovenia for keeping this thread alive. My ultrasonic humidifier has come
            in but have not picked it up yet. Was going to let my sister use it for its actual
            purpose first since she has allergies to see if its better than her regular humidifier. Busy with other things right now anyway.



            • Hi there,
              anyone knows where can one buy ammonium in Canada? Could not find any. I have the ZnO but I have trouble finding ammonium.
              Thanks in advance.



              • 29% Ammonium Hydroxide

                Hi Joe,

                Just order it on e-bay and they'll ship to you. The price I paid on e-bay was $10 US for 500ml. The shipping was also $10. It's hazardous stuff, so you have to pay a bit for the shipping. It's also not supposed to be sold to individual, but they don't check that evidently.

                Best Regards,

                Originally posted by cica View Post
                Hi there,
                anyone knows where can one buy ammonium in Canada? Could not find any. I have the ZnO but I have trouble finding ammonium.
                Thanks in advance.



                • Power1 Post from OU (Post #189)

                  @All, thank you for your continued efforts.

                  there are many transducers, just make sure it is submersible and cxan operate above 43khz.

                  You can buy small lots from, use a translator to search. In their electronic component section you can find transducer, complete circuits, professional high frequency drivers etc for less than 20% or less of listed price in the US. You can buy from several different vendors and have a Broker concile shipment into 1 lot to save lots$$ on shipping.

                  The DC fan was a quick approcah to moving fog for water injection, not practical due to auto operating conditions but gives a demo of how to move fog out. Ionic air or electric wind is much more feasible. HHO will freely flow out of the chamber but you still need to move atomize fog to help in cooling of ICE.

                  For circuit, you dont need anything fancy, the Nebulizer circuit will work and you can put one together with readily available parts.
                  In Sonochemistry, the higher the frequency, the higher the effeciency lowering wattage. This is easily done by increasing voltage alone.

                  Acoustic dissociation of water wil cease at higher frequency above few mhz. If you employ electric wind or ion influence, other effects occurs too.
                  Brass is a great material, optimal effeciency can be utilized at a later stage to fine tune performance and scale down the device into a smaller size.

                  You can dissociate water effeciently with ultrasonic alone, ZnO amplifies effect dramatically lowering input energy, Ion influence will also dissociate atomized water alone at extreme effeciency.

                  Sonoluminescence in water is also possible where acoustic wave is turned into light, these effects reflects cold fusion properties or may be the same thing!.
                  You have a small window to harvest moon dew of Ormes, don't let this one pass.
                  coat the copper pipe with ZnO and mount piezo on the bottom of pipe. ZnO works best when in contact with water.


                  • cica

                    Originally posted by cica View Post
                    Hi there,
                    anyone knows where can one buy ammonium in Canada? Could not find any. I have the ZnO but I have trouble finding ammonium.
                    Thanks in advance.

                    I got mine at Superstore. Just says Ammonia on the bottle (generic) then I
                    froze it to get it more concentrated.

                    Went to get the humidifier today, turns out they ordered the wrong one, not
                    ultrasonic, so will have to keep looking.



                    • Power1 Post from OU (Post #192)

                      March 19, 2011

                      There are many fascinating things you can do with Brass in acoustic cavitation! The sky is not the limit, water has many many phases. For the water fuel project, simple atomizing ultrasonic chamber will work just fine. For Home power, water sonoluminescence is extreme power!

                      Quote from: Slovenia on Today at 07:23:38 PM

                      The acoustic horn needs to be made out of brass and I think of fairly thin material. The configuration of the horn needs to be just so I'm thinking also. I also think the bowl receivers need to be made of brass also. Anyway, I'm thinking that the bowl needs to be able to vibrate too. The bowl is pure speculation on my part at this juncture. I will probably try something else first and then experiment with the brass bowls later. There are a lot of brass bowls available from India and they are fairly inexpensive.

                      I may be wrong on the bowl material.


                      • Romo Post on OverUnity (Post #201)

                        Quote from: Sprocket on March 19, 2011, 10:07:23 PM

                        Can anyone here yet confirm that Zn0 actually amplifies the production of HHO? I've got a humidifier that's just begging to be dismantled but would have to order Zn0, so it would be nice if someone could confirm its efficacy or lack thereof...

                        Romo Response:

                        Yes, It produces HHo. How much of it, will be determied by determined by our fuel chamber's geometries -- or by the process of "influencing" as listed above.

                        As for the test I used for that -- I literally dried out my first batch of crystals (they stuck on the inside of the masonry jar) -- and pointed the ultrasonic pond fogger at them, poured water in the 1/2 gal jar --- and I got little bubbles -- kind of like you might see a soda pop bubble up.

                        This was all the testing I needed before I began making lots of batches of crystals, and researching how to stick the crystals to the inside walls of your atomizing chamber.

                        As for adhering the crystals:
                        I have decided to go try an experiment with electrolosis -- if not, I can adhere the zinc by letting it dry out of the substance. Epoxy, I feel would be a more last-resort way, because of the spring "cushion" feeling of dried epoxy (at least when I've done it). I think the epoxy could be a minor wave-dampener. If any of these experiments dont turn out well, I will be using epoxy -- but there are equally simple ways to get the crystals to stick to another surface.

                        Goodness knows I haven't even looked into potential ceramic configurations.
                        If you are creative about it, there are no shortages of answers.

                        I will be likely using folded up aluminum foil, made rough from sandpaper -- stacked side by side, glued/fastened to the underside of a dead CD. I hope the sheer quantity of surface area, if put directly above the transducer (while in the water) will allow the vibrations to hit enough of the crystals -- quantity is the goal here) (to make them produce enough HHO to make the mixture combustable)

                        I suspect this will stifle one pond fogger, and not allow as much mist to be produced -- if any -- so I will have a secondary fogger running to produce the mist. 12 V fan could potentially run it into the intake manifold.

                        This is one "prototype" I had In mind.

                        Another will be mentioned shortly.

                        More recently:
                        I have been diverging my efforts into researching how to get the water to be dis-associated with the ion-wind/air pump. I feel that if I can get that part of the process to be "good" -- we might not even need the crystals.

                        It took a little bit of thinking about what powerme meant -- but a TT might = a Tesla Transformer.
                        If anyone doesn't know -- Tesla coils & tesla transformers can be extremely simple to build if you know how to.

                        I have been reading for the past few days on all these tangents -- There is a very vast depth to this condensed information powerme is chucking at us.

                        This leads me to the second prototype (which may be able to bypass using crystals)

                        The pond fogger, pumps out finely atomized water -- producing HHO, as well as pumping the mixture into the intake manifold.

                        If too much HHO is made by the ionizer, you could bubble it through a secondary pond fogging-chamber, to "dillute" the HHO gas with more water. A secondary fogger would produce additional mist, an additional 12V fan to pump mixture into intake manifold.

                        Making the correct ammount of HHO, would be a matter of tuning the tesla tranformer, to adjust the ionizer voltage, and frequency. Like I said though, a little more research is needed to understand it (Tesla Transformers, How to build them, how to tune them, Spark gaps, (potentially) Home made Caps / Gaps & coils -- the whole thing, to build yourself) -- but I hope this gives you an idea of the potential secondary "function-able" prototype.

                        Either way -- I think it could work. Making the crystals, seeing them produce HHO, have all passed my 'proof of concept' trials to great satisfaction. I'm getting ready to test a few full setups over the next week. My buddy who is helping me test, comes back tonight, so we'll be on the ball experimenting this next week.

                        Powerme, thanks for the heads up about the Dew. I had been thinking of a way to extract ORME's from the air and seawater (I can see them, darned it -- the little white dust dots constantly moving against the background blue sky)

                        I have a simple setup in mind which should collect quite a bit of dew.
                        Will write more in a bit,


                        • Romo Post on OverUnity (Post #203)

                          Quote from: fishman on Today at 12:00:29 AM

                          I don't mean to be pessimistic, i think the bubbles being HHO may be a good assumtion BUT -
                          How did you confirm the bubbles you made where HHO?
                          Could those bubbles have been just normal cavitation bubbles? Something other than HHO?

                          It at least proves that bubbles are made by this interaction.

                          I saw quite plainly with my eyes, where the bubbles were comming from. It was near the crystal flake formations on the side of the jar, and near a "slush" zinc deposit on another side. If you would like to conduct your own tests to see if the crystals produce a satisfactory result, you are welcome to observe. The escaping gas mixture was enough to produce a flickering in a butate lighter held above the masonry jar.

                          I think using a different Zno substrate may be useful in obtaining more HHO bubbles. (Substrate = zamak), Or, by adding magneisum chloride to the crystal 'mix' as it is cooking should add magnesium to the crystals.

                          I have said that the results I have as to yet obtained, have been satisfactory. I beleive this project can work. If I beleive that -- What was it that I was looking for?
                          In considering powerme's tangents in this way, it has been most helpful to me to getting more answers out of his statements, or hints.



                          • Romo Post on OverUnity (Post #204)

                            Simple internet searching
                            Reply #204 on: Today at 12:38:15 AM

                            * Reply with quoteQuote

                            This may help you come to your own conclusions about similar problems on this project.

                            Just do a google search:
                            electroplating zinc oxide - Google Search

                            Pick off what looks interesting.
                            Between all these pages, you should get an idea what electroplating is, and how to do it yourself. This what I had in mind. This might seem painfully obvious to do, but this is the basic kind of searching we need to become accustomed to doing in order to understand all the information that's here (even in old books!)

                            Read the search results, and look at what is useful.

                            Plating - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                            on the wiki page:
                            Electrogalvanization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                            Sherardising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                            Zinc Electroplating | Electroplated Zinc - Electro-Coatings
                            Electroplating 101 - Zinc
                            Metal Finishing Experts: Electroplating
                            Zinc Plating, Metal Plating, Electroplating Zinc, Zinc Plating Solution, Process - EPI

                            effectively, between all these pages, I figured out there were basically two things you could be doing (along the tangent of electroplating) These are two experiments I will be conducting during the day.

                            One process is effectively heating up the zinc crystals (or as it's cooling down from cooking), and letting them dry on a sheet of rough metal, or roughened plastic. I figure, too much vibration can shake this off. This has been since true with the substrates I have dried on the masonry jar to date.

                            My thoughts:
                            The roughened surface (looked kinda like fogged glass) allowed more crystals to stick in little nooks and crannies -- so there is a small ammount that sticks to the sides. In the very least, this is the simplest method which will allow me to test the high surface area, alumium sheet. Not a permanent solution.

                            The second process is the subject of this search: electro plating

                            As far as I could glean about electroplating, you basically run a currrent through the water with a finely suspended solution which has some charge to it (in our case zinc oxide) -- and it makes whatever stuff you've submersed/suspended in the water -- get little bits of that stuck on the outside of the metal.

                            So, I was thinking again -- either aluminum ( cause it's easy to get, from aluminum foil), or some metal sheets from the hardware store.

                            Instead of letting the crystals completely dry out after I cook them (I usually recycle the ammonium. When I would usually recycle it -- when I am "filtering" out the crystals -- I could just dunk them into a masonry jar with water). Let the remaining ammonium evaporate, leaving a water crystal solution.

                            I could Then use the crystal-water solution for electroplating it onto sheet metals.

                            These this might seem a little vauge, or condensed -- if you read the information on the above pages, and then read these thoughts -- it will make much more sense. I am trying to move in a more practical-application direction.

                            Either of these two methods are by no means complete, but this should let us get far enough to do some prelimenary tests. The more people we have doing tests, the better.

                            Back to work -- will report results this next week,


                            • Good Job Romo

                              Great Job Romo. Thanks for sharing!!


                              • Power1 Post from OU (Post #207)

                                March 20, 2011

                                Response to Question:
                                Cavitational sonoluminescence bursts is produced with negative ion influence, I prefer the nucleation effect of positive influence.