Bedini SG/Window Hybrid(s) - Converting off the shelf AC and DC Motors

[erfinder]

Hello,

The SG and Bedini/Cole Half and Full Sequential Switch are very powerful circuits, gifts if you will.

Question 1....

Has anyone ever tried and or contemplated combining the two circuits?

Question 2....

Has anyone ever tried and or contemplated converting off the shelf AC and DC motors. Driving them with either the SG or Window circuits...?


I am really looking forward to exchanging with those here who have not only thought along these lines but also have hardware to show.....real hardware.....here is a quote from John Bedini...

"You're not going to power anything with a roller skate...."


Regards

[142857]

to hit the mark, all you need to power with the rollerskater is the rollerskate.

[ren]

Hey Erf,

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post130916

Check this recent post out if you havent.

I will be sending a motor over to Jim in Germany soon, moving house at the moment so everything is everywhere. When it gets there I am going to advise him to speak to you, and perhaps you can give him a hand to modify it.

Talk soon champ.

Regards

[Ufopolitics]

What An Interesting Thread...omg!!!

I CAN SEE HOW MUCH ATTENTION YOU CAUGHT UP HERE MAN!!!


GREAT JOB!!!


HOW LONG YOU BEEN STICKING THAT "REAL HEAVY DUTY HARDWARE"???

[Ufopolitics]

The Creator Of This Thread...

HAD THE AUDACITY...

To visit mine...successfull one...just to inject his frustrations all over MY PLACE...I looked if He had something interesting right???

and all I found was this lousy piece of sh**T...from a year ago...


Are we all going to allow this microbes, this bacteria to spill all their hatred and frustrations on new ideas, on GOOD ONES???!!!


ARE WE GONNA ALLOW THIS CRAP...TO COME TO EVERY GOOD THREAD ON SITE...AND CREATE NOISE???


AND UPSET THE CREATORS LIKE THEY HAVE DONE TO ME???


ISN'T THAT CALLED HARASSMENT???


WHY IN HEAVEN SHOULD WE ALL LET THIS AS* HOLES COME HERE TO BOTHER NICE PEOPLE???!!!
TO RANT IN EVERY SUCCESSFUL THREAD...JUST BECAUSE THEY NEVER MMADE JACK SH**t

[thugugly]

ER the dic*k.

[Shanjaq]

Necromancy! Show some respect, man..

[mbrownn]

infighting does us a disservice

Agree to disagree and have a beer

[Farmhand]

I think beer is the problem not the fix.
Be a non drinker alcohol is brain poison.

Cheers

[mbrownn]

Very true, Ill drink yours and save you from it hehehic

[John_K]

Hello,

The SG and Bedini/Cole Half and Full Sequential Switch are very powerful circuits, gifts if you will.

Question 1....

Has anyone ever tried and or contemplated combining the two circuits?

Question 2....

Has anyone ever tried and or contemplated converting off the shelf AC and DC motors. Driving them with either the SG or Window circuits...?


I am really looking forward to exchanging with those here who have not only thought along these lines but also have hardware to show.....real hardware.....here is a quote from John Bedini...

"You're not going to power anything with a roller skate...."


Regards

Thanks to the detractors for highlighting this thread

erfinder, aside from DC brushless fan motor conversions with the SG circuit I haven't tried to convert anything else. Of course one could easily do a brushless DC motor conversion with the full bipolar Bedini/Cole circuit. I would expect that the fan would run more efficiently with the added benefit of energy recovery if running off a battery.

I'm curious how you would convert an AC motor or even a brushed DC motor.


John K.

[erfinder]

Thanks to the detractors for highlighting this thread

erfinder, aside from DC brushless fan motor conversions with the SG circuit I haven't tried to convert anything else. Of course one could easily do a brushless DC motor conversion with the full bipolar Bedini/Cole circuit. I would expect that the fan would run more efficiently with the added benefit of energy recovery if running off a battery.

I'm curious how you would convert an AC motor or even a brushed DC motor.


John K.

Hi John_K,

Personally, I think the AC motor topology is superior in many ways to the DC motor topology, there are a few exceptions to this, it's more or less dependent on application. This is my personal opinion.

Regarding your question, My first modified induction motor was able to operate on both circuits, the motor was trigger coil based. This modification was my attempt at producing the equivalent of a Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor (PMSM), driven by either of the aforementioned circuits. The first motor was a fairly large 10kw motor, the windings were broken at the internal WYE connection and all phases individualized. In this particular motor I was lucky, each phase was wound with two strands. One of these windings was used as the trigger winding and the other winding of the same phase was used as the power winding. Attempts were made to trigger all three phases using a single trigger from one phase, however, this did not function. As the motor comes with a squirrel cage rotor, it was replaced with a custom rotor, this particular motor was a two pole machine, so a two pole permanent magnet rotor was fabricated and installed. When connected to a suitable supply the motor ran. It didn't run very fast, and keeping to the tradition of the SG it didn't produce any torque. It wasn't till later that it occurred to me why the SG isn't producing torque, like the motor would in days prior to the modification and like the Window motor can and does, but that's a story for another day.

The second motor I modified was a 3.8kw induction motor. It was completely rewound, with 18x trifilar coils, it was originally designed to operate on a 54 transistor SG circuit. The motor was setup so that there were three phases, 6 coils per phase. One trigger and 2 drive windings per phase. Each phase produced 12 stator poles so a 12 pole rotor was designed. A communications error between myself and the machinist resulted in me receiving a 9 pole rotor!!! The project was put on hold for lack of funds for a new rotor. Two months after the 9 pole rotor was delivered I was performing a test on another SG type motor when it hit me that I could salvage the 9 pole rotor by turning it into a quasi six pole rotor, three magnets, all north poles facing out. I did this and the motor runs perfectly, just not as strong as it would if the south poles weren't imaginary.....All of my SG devices are supplied with mains level voltages, and because of this, I have experienced things while using this circuit which I do not like. The weak point in this circuit as it is presented, and this is my personal opinion, is the transformer action that takes place between the power windings and the trigger winding! This transformer action coupled with the generator action already taking place in the trigger results in sudden death of high wattage pots when the circuit is operating. This is a loss which cannot be circumvented. I have seen some very clever methods for attempting to get around this issue, to include the bipolar circuit which uses a transistor in the trigger circuit. At high power input, it matters not! Ultimately the solution to the problem was isolation. The trigger if it was to be inductive, had to be removed from the power winding. However, I digress....

The point is, a conventional induction motor can be modified to operate on either of these circuits, however, there are many key issues which need to be addressed before you attempt a modification. Today I would just save my beans and buy a PMSM. What you drive it with is up to you, just make sure you are recovering from both ends of the wire!

Regards

[erfinder]

Hello,

There are two main reasons why I allowed this thread to die, the first being a more personal one. At the time of my opening it I was dealing with a personal issue, envy. Today I have no problem admitting this both to myself and to the community because I understand how it can and has clouded my judgment at times. For a while I was upset with one who in my opinion didn't have what I would say is the proper understanding of the information he was presenting. Soul searching has led me to the conclusion that my opinion is mine, and my opinion of his work shouldn't matter to him. His work is based on ideas which came to him from the same source that sends me my ideas, the source is the same, the channel through which this idea is made manifest is just a channel. Who am I to judge him. Who am I to be envious of his accomplishment. I am him, not in the literal sense, we share an idea. If we were brain cells, we would share a common neural link. We are one in this work, approaching it from different perspectives, here we must tread carefully. Personal point of view introduces bias, which eventually blinds one from seeing the significance of that which another like mind brings to the discussion. This was my problem, it is for him to decide if he was a victim of this as well. Truth be told he has shared those visions of the future to the best of his ability, right or wrong is immaterial. The point is that he was "allowed" to share his thoughts. It would have been nice if he could have done so uninterrupted by the likes of individuals like myself, who, while operating in a similar manner, feel obligated to inject information where we see it fits when we see fit. This can work only when its welcomed, and I didn't even ask permission. It's funny now that I think about it, would he consider me as a friend today had I asked permission to share my thoughts with him? If you are out there, reading this, forgive me, I have no beef with you.

The second reason for stopping was the intellectual property issue which would have surfaced had I continued discussing things that I couldn't possibly know. Its crystal clear that I don't know anything, this is just a discussion, and I am only tossing ideas around. It makes me wonder though, since my work was inspired by research done by others, what would be the impact of my sharing my ideas and research on that work? From my perspective, there's that word again, it's clear that the individual groups putting this information into the public domain want us to discover and replicate their work, a kind of peanut gallery peer review, however, I don't get the feeling that they really want us to succeed. I say this because the ideas, which, while in my opinion didn't necessarily originate in these circles is now their intellectual property. Since this technology was discussed in an open platform shortly after it made its debut in 2010, I hope we can still discuss it, but not only that, I hope we can begin a massive replication effort, without getting into trouble with the people who are making the information available, as I said, its protected information.

Some might think it strange but in reviewing the information provided on this forum regarding the 16GT Monopole Motor, in all of the posts I found no real information on how and why it really operates. Here I am specially referring to the "Self Reguaging Idling Magneto". In looking for insights into how I believe it functions, I was led to one individual who was the last person I was expecting would give me any insights into the method behind the madness, Robert Adams. "The Adams Pulsed Motor Generator Manual". Find that book!


Regards

[John_K]

Hi erfinder,

Welcome back!

I'm still interested on how you made a PMSM motor.

Are you able to post any more details? I'd like to build one.

Feel free to PM me if you wish.

John K.

[erfinder]

Hi erfinder,

Welcome back!

I'm still interested on how you made a PMSM motor.

Are you able to post any more details? I'd like to build one.

Feel free to PM me if you wish.

John K.

Forgive me John, I thought I made it clear how modified that motor. Technically, the name PMSM only applies loosely, my device is simply a modified three phase induction motor.





https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...duction/F1.wmv

What began as a 3.3KW 3 phase induction motor was stripped of its original windings and rewound with 18x trifilar coils. There is a 9 pole rotor installed fitted with 6 magnets. As it stands, the device could be classified as an inductively triggered Dynamotor. I moved away from the SG, and Bipolar switch for moral reasons. The circuit I use on this device is inductively triggered, and can be found online.

I planned the retrofitting, but didn't do the major work myself. The rewind was done by a specialist, the new rotor was drawn by myself and constructed by a machine shop.

When considering what a PMSM really is and how it functions, my machine doesn't qualify for that name. So with that in mind, lets just say its a rewired three phase motor fitted with a permanent magnet rotor, in other words a big brushless motor.

As I mentioned before, if I had to do again, I would save up and buy a PMSM device and drive it as we've been taught to drive motors. In the end I think this would be the better way to go, its cheaper, and the money saved on the rebuild can be invested in the controller.

There is no special information that I can provide. Its all basic stuff. The easiest, and by far cheapest retrofit would be pulling the rotor out of a three phase motor, drilling holes in the rotor and securing magnets, (rewind only if you want to use a multi strand SG circuit.....) won't make much of a motor but would make one hell of a energizer.......


Regards