Tesla Chargers from Energetic Forum

[Aaron]

S3A12 Tesla Chargers Solar Charge Controller

Hi all,

Today I went outside to clean up the connectors on my small solar panel array feeding the Tesla solar tracker 5, when I came back in the house, it wasn't working any more and I check the panel output, nearly 65W. I opened the charger and the 6A40 diode was surrounded by dark brown resin, the rest was snow white. The diode is done for so I decided to clean out the resin from the board to see if I could fix it.

I did it in about 2 hours with my hot air rework soldering station and a few small sharp screwdrivers. I have seen amateur weld before but these beat them all, my 9 years old grand daughter could do better without even trying.

I'll do another board, buy the components and do it like it should be done, no resin and a small fan. I was going to buy a larger charger eventually but now I guess I wont. The resin acts as an insulator and it's probably why the diode burnt with the clean panels and panel connectors giving out 20W more than what the unit is rated.

So the lesson here is do not go above the 45W rating for the Tesla solar tracker 5 or the same will happen to yours.

Take care all,

Michel

Overloading the 3amp 12v charge controller by 50% above the rated power and melting the circuit is not in the category of manufacturing flaws - it is from abusing the unit with solar input of 65 watts, which it is not designed for.

If you don't want to purchase a larger unit because of abusing and breaking a smaller unit, that is your choice, but it needs to be absolutely clear that it was the fact that you delivered 65 watts to a 45 watt unit that burnt it out and not a flaw or defect of the products.

The circuit and any soldering is only the highest of quality. With overloading it by 20 watts, the heat has to dissipate somewhere and that is the source of the problem - you will melt things.

With or without the resin, you will overhead and burn out the circuit if you're supplying 65 watts to a 45 watt unit. That is why it is rated as such.

Small fan is not necessary if you are within the rated input for the unit.

These charge controllers remain the finest in the world and they need to be operated within the rated power for each unit.

Solar 3 Amp 12 Volt Lead Acid - Tesla Chargers

[Michelinho]

Burnt out Tesla solar tracker 5.

Hi all,

Today I went outside to clean up the connectors on my small solar panel array feeding the Tesla solar tracker 5, when I came back in the house, it wasn't working any more and I check the panel output, nearly 65W. I opened the charger and the 6A40 diode was surrounded by dark brown resin, the rest was snow white. The diode is done for so I decided to clean out the resin from the board to see if I could fix it.

I did it in about 2 hours with my hot air rework soldering station and a few small sharp screwdrivers. I have seen amateur weld before but these beat them all, my 9 years old grand daughter could do better without even trying.

I'll do another board, buy the components and do it like it should be done, no resin and a small fan. I was going to buy a larger charger eventually but now I guess I wont. The resin acts as an insulator and it's probably why the diode burnt with the clean panels and panel connectors giving out 20W more than what the unit is rated.

So the lesson here is do not go above the 45W rating for the Tesla solar tracker 5 or the same will happen to yours.

Take care all,

Michel

[tgraca]

We can make a more clear graphic.

The 2nd graphic shows a common bus bar (vertical green line) connecting the batteries at those voltages. It equalizes the entire bank so the it acts as one large battery. Will never get middle cells going bad this way.

Aaron, Thanks for fixing that so quickly and sending it out to me, and I guess everyone... awesome response time!!! You guys are the best!

Glad I could help with that... Thanks!

Teo

PS - updated eBook at freesolarsecrets.com

[Aaron]

equalizing battery bank

Yes. Read it several times. Thank you for the great insights.

I did notice that the 2 graphics on page 28 used to demonstrate the different battery bank configurations are wired exactly the same way.

The reference to the first graphic says "This way of wiring the battery bank promotes battery failure and the need for equalization".

The reference to the second graphic says "Depicted here is the method we call hardwiring equalization into the battery bank."

Maybe you could clarify this.

Thanks again,

Teo

We can make a more clear graphic.

The 2nd graphic shows a common bus bar (vertical green line) connecting the batteries at those voltages. It equalizes the entire bank so the it acts as one large battery. Will never get middle cells going bad this way.

[tgraca]

Solar Secrets ebook

Did you read the free Solar Secrets ebook? Free Solar Secrets

Yes. Read it several times. Thank you for the great insights.

I did notice that the 2 graphics on page 28 used to demonstrate the different battery bank configurations are wired exactly the same way.

The reference to the first graphic says "This way of wiring the battery bank promotes battery failure and the need for equalization".

The reference to the second graphic says "Depicted here is the method we call hardwiring equalization into the battery bank."

Maybe you could clarify this.

Thanks again,

Teo

[Aaron]

Tesla Solar Tracker 5

Also, I am still not clear on how 21.5 volts or less from solar panels are transformed into a 24 volt battery bank by the Solar Trackers. Clarification on how the Solar Trackers can take lower voltage from the panels to support a higher voltage battery bank would help with this question.

If I design and build my own solar panels, what should be my goal voltage for the panels with a 12 volt battery bank using the TESLA SOLAR TRACKER 5 S80A12?

I imagine there is an optimal panel voltage input for the Solar Trackers, but I can't find that documented anywhere. I can build solar panels in any half volt increment, like 12V, 12.5V, etc. A lower voltage per panel would cost less to build per panel, but I would build them per your recommendation.

Thanks!

Teo

For the 24v system, you need 24v of solar, which would be around 36v at least. The 21.5 volts is a good voltage only for 12v panel and only for the 12v Tesla Solar Tracker 5's.

With a 12v bank, the panels I have are about 26 v open circuit and about 18-20 loaded under full sun.

Did you read the free Solar Secrets ebook? Free Solar Secrets

[tgraca]

Recommended Voltage per Solar Panel....

Hey Aaron, - thanks... that clarified several things.

What do you mean by factoring in the "non" 12-24 volt battery banks?

Regarding that question, I definitely asked it the wrong way... I meant to ask about the difference between the 12 volt and 24 volt Solar Tracker 5's and if they support the same amount of power (volts versus amps). Since they are the same price, I imagine they do, but am hoping for some clarification on that.

Also, I am still not clear on how 21.5 volts or less from solar panels are transformed into a 24 volt battery bank by the Solar Trackers. Clarification on how the Solar Trackers can take lower voltage from the panels to support a higher voltage battery bank would help with this question.

If I design and build my own solar panels, what should be my goal voltage for the panels with a 12 volt battery bank using the TESLA SOLAR TRACKER 5 S80A12?

I imagine there is an optimal panel voltage input for the Solar Trackers, but I can't find that documented anywhere. I can build solar panels in any half volt increment, like 12V, 12.5V, etc. A lower voltage per panel would cost less to build per panel, but I would build them per your recommendation.

Thanks!

Teo

[Aaron]

Tesla Solar Tracker 5's

Aaron, how many watts can each of the charge controllers handle?

Can the S160A12, which costs the same as the S160A24 ALSO handle 4000 watts of solar panels?

You had mentioned that an S3A12 can handle 200 watts of of solar panels, but I don't understand the comparison of the amps and voltage to the handling capacity of these charge controllers. For example...

3 amps times 12 volts is 36 watts, which for the S3A12 = 200 watts???

I sent some similar questions to you and Peter in an email, but feel free to share the answer here so everyone can benefit from the answer.

The new PDF shows the solar panels generating 12 volts, but mine generate 21.5 for most of the day... how do I factor that into a Solar Tracker "buy" consideration? The reason I am asking is that I am considering building my own solar panels and WANT TO arrange the voltage to work with the Solar Tracker 5's. I can set these panels to any voltage within a half volt.

Also, I am considering using lead alum batteries, which work great according to Bedini's "build" specifications, but they work at around 9.5V to 6.5V to over a 24 hour period - a very different animal when designing solar systems. Will the Solar Trackers work with a configuration of lead alum batteries like this, and if so, how do I calculate solar panel wattage to Solar Tracker needs?

The AC chargers work quickly to recharge these lead alum batteries, but how would the Solar Tracker work? Can I discharge and charge at the same time? How do I factor in the non-12 or 24 volt banks as shown in the PDF?

Your input is greatly appreciated!

Thanks! - teo

Hi Teo,

The S160A12 can handle about 2000 watts of solar panels because it is limited by the fuse for the current at 150-160 amp range.

If you multiple the amp rating of each charger by a minimum of 12v, you will get the watts that the Tesla Solar Tracker 5s can handle.

The S3A12 can actually handle about 50 watts at 12 volts. A bit more than just 12 volts x 3 amps.

Your 12v panel that is at 21.5 - if that is open circuit voltage, it will drop down to probably a couple volts above the battery resting voltage when connected through the Tesla Solar Tracker 5. When the battery is charge up and in floating mode, it will then hit is periodically with close to the open circuit voltage.

The 100 watt 12v panels I have are at 26-27 volts open circuit and 18-21 volts loaded depending on how much sun.

In your example - I 'm not sure where you get 200 watts from. 3 amps x 12 volts is 36 watts but 3 amps x 15-16 volts loaded on the panel is about 45-50 watts - not 200.

I don't have personal experience with the alum battery conversion and the Tesla Solar Tracker 5's. I'd stick with normal flooded sulfuric acid lead acid batteries.

To calculate what you need, you have to define what your total load is during daylight hours and then night time hours roughly to get an idea.

It is bad for the battery to try to charge it and draw a load from it at the same time. With the Tesla Solar Tracker 5's, any load you have will come through the charge controller from the panels first. If you exceed what the panels give, the remainder comes from the batteries. If you draw a load less than what the panels are getting, then you don't even touch the batteries. If there is excess solar energy above what you are drawing for your load, it will go to the batteries.

What do you mean by factoring in the "non" 12-24 volt battery banks?

[tgraca]

Charge Controllers

the large S160A24... can support about 4000 watts of solar panels.

Aaron, how many watts can each of the charge controllers handle?

Can the S160A12, which costs the same as the S160A24 ALSO handle 4000 watts of solar panels?

You had mentioned that an S3A12 can handle 200 watts of of solar panels, but I don't understand the comparison of the amps and voltage to the handling capacity of these charge controllers. For example...

3 amps times 12 volts is 36 watts, which for the S3A12 = 200 watts???

I sent some similar questions to you and Peter in an email, but feel free to share the answer here so everyone can benefit from the answer.

The new PDF shows the solar panels generating 12 volts, but mine generate 21.5 for most of the day... how do I factor that into a Solar Tracker "buy" consideration? The reason I am asking is that I am considering building my own solar panels and WANT TO arrange the voltage to work with the Solar Tracker 5's. I can set these panels to any voltage within a half volt.

Also, I am considering using lead alum batteries, which work great according to Bedini's "build" specifications, but they work at around 9.5V to 6.5V to over a 24 hour period - a very different animal when designing solar systems. Will the Solar Trackers work with a configuration of lead alum batteries like this, and if so, how do I calculate solar panel wattage to Solar Tracker needs?

The AC chargers work quickly to recharge these lead alum batteries, but how would the Solar Tracker work? Can I discharge and charge at the same time? How do I factor in the non-12 or 24 volt banks as shown in the PDF?

Your input is greatly appreciated!

Thanks! - teo

[420Organics]

High Voltage Spark Gap Tesla Coil to charge 48V Batteries

HELLO ALL!

Anyone have any experience charging dead or used batteries with Tesla Coils? I've got a few 100kV Hamilton Drills High Voltage Tesla Coils with a positive and negative brass end (spark gap).

I've got some temporary success on smaller batteries, but I think I need to make a few conductors and run the current through them before charging the battery...ANY SUGGESTIONS?!?!!?!

Thanks ALL!

[Stephen Brown]

Hi Stephen,

I'll ask Peter if he can chime in here as well.

If you can disconnect the bank in series and reconnect in parallel to have 24v, then you can use the large S160A24, which can support about 4000 watts of solar panels.

In any case, if the bank is 24v, yes, you can use the Tesla Solar Tracker 5 - S160A24

One thing about going over 24v is that in a high voltage string of batteries, the middle cells can go bad. We're going to address this in good detail in the free solar report coming out soon.

So basically, 12 and 24 volt banks are the only way to go. I don't have any experience with electric cars but if there are 12 and 24 v systems, for the sake of battery longevity, that is what I'd do...unless you can de-series the batts and put in parallel for charging and reconnect in series for driving.

You mention the lipos' - as you probably know this technology isn't intended for lithium ion batteries - but, the Bedini charging technology IS compatible with LIFEPO4's (if that is what you're talking about) - lithium iron phosphate batteries. The charger would have to be slightly modified in order to be sold for that purpose but it can be done - it has been tested and it works great. I don't know if there will be a multipurpose charger with a switch for both kinds or just a dedicated one, but in any case, we are definitely looking at that.

Thanks for all the great news.
Charging the LIFEPO4s would make the chargers much more versitile.
I think your suggestion on de-seriesing the high voltage bank to 12 or 24 volts for charging purposes is a very good one. I've known about losing the center batteries for a while now.
I look forward to viewing the Solar Report.
I saw John using a 50 amp DC power supply.
Would it be possible to power the large Solar Tracker 5 using grid power?
I have a grid tie solar system.
What would be the best way to do this? Rectify AC to DC then to the tracker 5 inputs?
On-board dedicated EV battery chargers are pretty standard. To have an on board setup using the Tracker 5, that made the LAB bank last, even twice as long, would have the charger paying for itself over a reasonable period of time. Taking advantage of city charging stations would make the whole setup look really good financially.
Many EV enthusiast use their car battery bank to run their house electrical system during outages.
Thanks again.
Stephen

[Aaron]

electric car charging

Aaron,
Since you are being so kind and answering charger questions.
Can you see any way to use the Large Solar Tracker 5 to charge up a 128 volt LAB bank in an electric car?
I have 16 - 8 volt deep cycle batteries.
I know some of the literature says not to charge 8 volt batteries.
If I broke them out into 24 volt banks for charging purposes?
Otherwise I could purchase 12 volt replacements when the time comes.
In any event, I know the first generation electric car chargers you guys built weren't as effective as you would have liked.
I don't know the back story on your EV chargers and their discontinuation. (could you give us a little history lesson regarding the EV chargers)
I had a friend here in my home town, one of the heads of the EV club, that I convinced to purchase one. He said after a couple of consults, that weren't very helpful, he didn't get any longer life out of his LAB bank.
This was back when Rick was in charge. I was trying to get our local club to start buying them. But they were discontinued after about a year.
I would really like to buy or build a large radiant charger for my EV.
Any suggestion or time frames on EV chargers.
Let me know If this is moot since so many EVs are moving to LiPos. Only us tinkerers are using LABs anymore.
Thanks in advance.
Stephen

Hi Stephen,

I'll ask Peter if he can chime in here as well.

If you can disconnect the bank in series and reconnect in parallel to have 24v, then you can use the large S160A24, which can support about 4000 watts of solar panels.

As you read, people were abusing the 36v/48v golf cart charger with the 8 volt batts so we stopped offering it and only have the 36v.

In any case, if the bank is 24v, yes, you can use the Tesla Solar Tracker 5 - S160A24

That original e-car charger actually did work pretty good, but I didn't have any personal experience with it since I didn't have an electric car. However, here are a few testimonials for it: Tesla Chargers | Testimonials

One thing about going over 24v is that in a high voltage string of batteries, the middle cells can go bad. We're going to address this in good detail in the free solar report coming out soon.

So basically, 12 and 24 volt banks are the only way to go. I don't have any experience with electric cars but if there are 12 and 24 v systems, for the sake of battery longevity, that is what I'd do...unless you can de-series the batts and put in parallel for charging and reconnect in series for driving.

You mention the lipos' - as you probably know this technology isn't intended for lithium ion batteries - but, the Bedini charging technology IS compatible with LIFEPO4's (if that is what you're talking about) - lithium iron phosphate batteries. The charger would have to be slightly modified in order to be sold for that purpose but it can be done - it has been tested and it works great. I don't know if there will be a multipurpose charger with a switch for both kinds or just a dedicated one, but in any case, we are definitely looking at that.

[Stephen Brown]

Electric Car Charger

Aaron,
Since you are being so kind and answering charger questions.
Can you see any way to use the Large Solar Tracker 5 to charge up a 128 volt LAB bank in an electric car?
I have 16 - 8 volt deep cycle batteries.
I know some of the literature says not to charge 8 volt batteries.
If I broke them out into 24 volt banks for charging purposes?
Otherwise I could purchase 12 volt replacements when the time comes.
In any event, I know the first generation electric car chargers you guys built weren't as effective as you would have liked.
I don't know the back story on your EV chargers and their discontinuation. (could you give us a little history lesson regarding the EV chargers)
I had a friend here in my home town, one of the heads of the EV club, that I convinced to purchase one. He said after a couple of consults, that weren't very helpful, he didn't get any longer life out of his LAB bank.
This was back when Rick was in charge. I was trying to get our local club to start buying them. But they were discontinued after about a year.
I would really like to buy or build a large radiant charger for my EV.
Any suggestion or time frames on EV chargers.
Let me know If this is moot since so many EVs are moving to LiPos. Only us tinkerers are using LABs anymore.
Thanks in advance.
Stephen

[Aaron]

solar power

Aaron, thanks for the quick response!

So, I am trying to get the 3rd grade math down to calculate components needed for a system or systems for my home. With a given of 84 watts used per hour, 12 volt batteries, and 20 hours min. of battery run time, the calculation for the right battery amp hour rating would be:

• 84 (watts needed per hour) divided by 12 (volts) times 20 (min. hours of run time) = 140 battery amp hours needed, whether it is 1 or more batteries in parallel.

Also... it looks like the calculation for the right solar panel configuration would be:

• 2016 (watts used per day) divided by 10 (minimum sunlight per day) = approx. 200 watts (cloud coverage not factored?)

And... it looks like the calculation for the Tesla Solar Tracker needed would be:

• 200 (watts from solar panels) divided by 12 (volts per battery) = at least 16.66 amp (20 amp Tesla Solar Tracker is the best choice)

Is this right? If so, it looks like we can simply find out the daily maximum energy needed and the minimum amount of sunlight available to determine the solar panels, battery bank, and the appropriate Tesla Solar Tracker to go with it.

Those numbers work for my office, but let's test this math by adding 2 more 1,500 watt circuits - one for my fridge (800 watts per day) and one for other kitchen appliances (2,200 watts per day) totaling another 3,000 watts per day for a total of approx. 5,000 watts per day for the entire system...

• Battery Bank aH needed... 5000 (watts per day) / 24 (hours per day) * 20 (hours of battery life per day) = 4167 amp hours in the battery bank... so about 30 of these 140 aH batteries needed (4167/140).
• Solar Panels needed... 5000 (watts used per day) divided by 10 (minimum sunlight per day) = 500 watts
• Tesla Solar Tracker - best choice... 500 (watts from solar panels) divided by 12 (volts per battery) = at least 42 amps... maybe the S40A12 Tesla Solar Tracker 5... maybe it would be better to step up to the Solar Tracker 5 S80A12?

Anyway, please check my math... I think this is 3rd grade math, but it's best to have another set of eyes, eh!

Teo

PS - is it best to have all the batteries in a bank the same type and amp hour rating? I may end up with several types of batteries, so maybe I should have a separate battery bank per aH rating, like car batteries versus marine batteries....

Tesla Charger Update: I put one of the marine batteries on the 2 amp Tesla Charger about an hour ago and will track it's progress...

The 20 hour run is actually the maximum run-time and not the minimum. If the ah rating is 140 amps / 20 hours = c-20 discharge rate of 7 amps from full charge to 10.5 volts for deep cycle.

With your 2 batteries in parallel, 7 amps is actually a c-40 rate and you could draw 14 amps from those two batteries in parallel and that would be that battery bank's c20 rate.

With home systems, the battery bank can be loaded up to a c-5 rate, which is a LOT, but that is only meant for shorter bursts and not all the time but with loads that don't require that much, you might as well stick to a c-20 rate with the deep cycles.

Your first 3 bullet points pretty much look right - correct, cloud coverage is not considered with the 200 watts. At least with the amorphous solar panels, with full clouds, you should still be able to get more than what crystalline panels will give.

By the way, Peter and I are going to be putting out a 15 or so page solar report and I'd highly recommend you read that first before doing anything major. It will lay out most of the basics on the batteries, etc...

For example, ideally, you never want to use 12v batteries in a solar system, you want to put two 6v batteries in series, especially if you're going to be paralleling the 12v strings for increased capacity. The reason is that middle cells in 12v batts go bad. Anyway, wait for that report, we hopefully will have that this week. We'll show several things that are not commonly known about solar.

For your question on the bigger setup, what will you be drawing during daylight hours?

Again, wait until you see the solar report - will answer a lot of questions.

[tgraca]

3rd Grade Math...

A 140ah battery - take 140/20=7amp load - meaning you should be able to draw a 7 amp load from one of those batteries for 20 hours straight from full charge down to about 10.5 volts. - Aaron

Aaron, thanks for the quick response!

So, I am trying to get the 3rd grade math down to calculate components needed for a system or systems for my home. With a given of 84 watts used per hour, 12 volt batteries, and 20 hours min. of battery run time, the calculation for the right battery amp hour rating would be:

• 84 (watts needed per hour) divided by 12 (volts) times 20 (min. hours of run time) = 140 battery amp hours needed, whether it is 1 or more batteries in parallel.

Also... it looks like the calculation for the right solar panel configuration would be:

• 2016 (watts used per day) divided by 10 (minimum sunlight per day) = approx. 200 watts (cloud coverage not factored?)

And... it looks like the calculation for the Tesla Solar Tracker needed would be:

• 200 (watts from solar panels) divided by 12 (volts per battery) = at least 16.66 amp (20 amp Tesla Solar Tracker is the best choice)

Is this right? If so, it looks like we can simply find out the daily maximum energy needed and the minimum amount of sunlight available to determine the solar panels, battery bank, and the appropriate Tesla Solar Tracker to go with it.

Those numbers work for my office, but let's test this math by adding 2 more 1,500 watt circuits - one for my fridge (800 watts per day) and one for other kitchen appliances (2,200 watts per day) totaling another 3,000 watts per day for a total of approx. 5,000 watts per day for the entire system...

• Battery Bank aH needed... 5000 (watts per day) / 24 (hours per day) * 20 (hours of battery life per day) = 4167 amp hours in the battery bank... so about 30 of these 140 aH batteries needed (4167/140).
  
• Solar Panels needed... 5000 (watts used per day) divided by 10 (minimum sunlight per day) = 500 watts
  
• Tesla Solar Tracker - best choice... 500 (watts from solar panels) divided by 12 (volts per battery) = at least 42 amps... maybe the S40A12 Tesla Solar Tracker 5... maybe it would be better to step up to the Solar Tracker 5 S80A12?

Anyway, please check my math... I think this is 3rd grade math, but it's best to have another set of eyes, eh!

Teo

PS - is it best to have all the batteries in a bank the same type and amp hour rating? I may end up with several types of batteries, so maybe I should have a separate battery bank per aH rating, like car batteries versus marine batteries....

Tesla Charger Update: I put one of the marine batteries on the 2 amp Tesla Charger about an hour ago and will track it's progress...