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Bedini motor why stress can only use ceramic magnets?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sephiroth View Post
    ....but I'm sticking to my guns with the second statement. You're right that timing also plays a part, but my comparison of neos and ceramics to gears is true when all other factors are equal.
    Ya but what did you test. 1 big block of Neo? No...NO...NO!

    Many small ones side by side can give the exact same driving and generating effect as one big one, without the grab. Curled Fields

    Try it you'll like it I guarantee.

    Matt
    ADD BROMIKEY TO YOUR IGNORE LIST He is a saboteur bent on the systematic distraction of every good topic on this forum and since he has been here most working threads have shut down. He is the enemy. If you have blocked him already add this to your signature and encourage others to block him as well. His onslaught of rambling in large text and his constant attempts to misinform at the excuse of being stupid should no longer be tolerated.

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    • #17
      Gurantee?

      Originally posted by Matthew Jones View Post
      Ya but what did you test. 1 big block of Neo? No...NO...NO!

      Many small ones side by side can give the exact same driving and generating effect as one big one, without the grab. Curled Fields

      Try it you'll like it I guarantee.

      Matt
      Or double our money back ? he he he

      I must agree that size of neo is critical. The larger ones take a car tire for a wheel
      See my experiments here...
      http://www.youtube.com/marthale7

      You do not have to prove something for it to be true. However, you do have to prove something for others to believe it true.

      Comment


      • #18
        Sure I'll double your money back, seeing as how your not paying I got nothing to loose.

        Like I tried to explain above.. .When 2 strong magnets are side by side the field between them is dense in the opposite direction. This creates a skin effect on the surface of the iron. The magnetic field at the core can be fully saturated but emit opposite flux. This does not effect the saturation it only effects the attraction to the iron.
        If you a bunch of small strong north magnets pointing at the iron in the core, the field emitted by the saturated iron can consist of both poles. Reducing the attraction. But it only happens at a point in which the magnets are parallel to the iron. This blocks the lock.

        I have seen on several motors assemblies that if I were to use 1 magnet of a given strength the lock would be real strong. But I can use 2 or more of the same magnet side by side, and the lock all but goes away.

        Take it for what its worth.

        Matt
        ADD BROMIKEY TO YOUR IGNORE LIST He is a saboteur bent on the systematic distraction of every good topic on this forum and since he has been here most working threads have shut down. He is the enemy. If you have blocked him already add this to your signature and encourage others to block him as well. His onslaught of rambling in large text and his constant attempts to misinform at the excuse of being stupid should no longer be tolerated.

        USER CP/Ignore list.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Matthew Jones View Post
          Sure I'll double your money back, seeing as how your not paying I got nothing to loose.

          Like I tried to explain above.. .When 2 strong magnets are side by side the field between them is dense in the opposite direction. This creates a skin effect on the surface of the iron. The magnetic field at the core can be fully saturated but emit opposite flux. This does not effect the saturation it only effects the attraction to the iron.
          If you a bunch of small strong north magnets pointing at the iron in the core, the field emitted by the saturated iron can consist of both poles. Reducing the attraction. But it only happens at a point in which the magnets are parallel to the iron. This blocks the lock.

          I have seen on several motors assemblies that if I were to use 1 magnet of a given strength the lock would be real strong. But I can use 2 or more of the same magnet side by side, and the lock all but goes away.

          Take it for what its worth.

          Matt
          you may be right. But I still think I'm right as well I can gaurentee that my description of the relationship between magnet strength (or coil inductance) is correct when all other factors are equal.

          Remember we were talking about window motors so there is no core.
          "Theory guides. Experiment decides."

          I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
          Nikola Tesla

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          • #20
            Just realised you might have thought earlier that I meant neos always have better torque than ceramics... what I said was neos have better torque at lower rpm, ie when loaded to a lower rpm. but ceramics have better torque for driving loads at higher rpm... as I said, it is similar to gearing.

            Using neos will give you more force in newtons at lower rpm.

            Ceramics will give you less force (in newtons) but at a higher rpm.

            Either way, the Nm/s will be pretty much equal so mechanical output in watts will be the same.

            When choosing between ceramics or neos, you need to consider your load before designing the motor.

            Neos will usually be the best choice since you will have better magnetic coupling, and you can always lower the inductance of your stator if you want to run high rpm loads. But you might not want to lower the inductance of your stators I don't

            EDIT : and yes, if it is possible in your setup, then you can always adjust the timing of the pulses to adjust the nature of the mechanical output.
            Last edited by Sephiroth; 02-05-2010, 06:23 PM.
            "Theory guides. Experiment decides."

            I do not think there is any thrill that can go through the human heart like that felt by the inventor as he sees some creation of the brain unfolding to success... Such emotions make a man forget food, sleep, friends, love, everything.
            Nikola Tesla

            Comment


            • #21
              Matthew

              Originally posted by Matthew Jones View Post
              Sure I'll double your money back, seeing as how your not paying I got nothing to loose.


              I have seen on several motors assemblies that if I were to use 1 magnet of a given strength the lock would be real strong. But I can use 2 or more of the same magnet side by side, and the lock all but goes away.

              Take it for what its worth.

              Matt
              Thanks for the input Matt,

              So when you have these "side by side" what is the spacing, and what is the size of your neos, as grade and physical size?

              I have Howard John's book on magnets, but sounds like you have a working knowledge of what it means from watching your videos.

              Mart
              See my experiments here...
              http://www.youtube.com/marthale7

              You do not have to prove something for it to be true. However, you do have to prove something for others to believe it true.

              Comment


              • #22
                I found neo add drag in case there are metal nearby. On replication with core, it can be a problem if the core do not produce magnetic field long or big enough to expell neo (become drag), to produce repulsing force bigger than neo to core attraction force.

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                • #23
                  Neo's will work just fine in a SSG configuration. However, you may need to make a few adjustments. You'll need a bigger coil (more turns) or a higher voltage because a neo has more force which will require more amp turns to counteract in the core. The neo will also produce much more energy in the trigger circuit, which will result in heat and higher voltages. That same energy will be induced into your drive coil, which will fry your transistor unless you have it protected. If that coil is hooked up to charge batteries it should be Ok. However, a co-wound load coil will not always protect the drive transistor from getting fried, as it tends to do with ceramic magnets.

                  Have fun,

                  Ted

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by theremart View Post
                    Thanks for the input Matt,

                    So when you have these "side by side" what is the spacing, and what is the size of your neos, as grade and physical size?

                    I have Howard John's book on magnets, but sounds like you have a working knowledge of what it means from watching your videos.

                    Mart
                    Like I said a bunch of smaller strong neo's work good. I generally use something like a 40 lbs 1/2 cube (Because I have bunch) or something close that in a cylinder. I keep them about 50% of there own width apart for this application.
                    I did not get that from Howard Johnson's stuff. I actually got it from Energy from the vacuum. A section about skin effects. Bedini's mostly.
                    Once I read it It got me thinking and subsequently, trying. It a valid method for lowering the force that iron and magnets have against each other.

                    It will never completely stop the lock. If it did we would not saturate the iron. But it helps alot. Simulators do not take the skin effect into consideration but they do give some signs.

                    Vizimag Simulation

                    You can also use this same effect for generating energy. A saturated core (Explained above) and magnets close together can produce a near perfect sign wave. Yet everything in the negative of the sign wave is produced freely with out the need for torque. The only work needs to be done is when a magnet is in position over the core of the coil.

                    Simulation2

                    Notice the density of the flux between the magnets, and its direction.

                    Like I said take it for what its worth.

                    I wouldn't use neo's with and SSG for some of the reasons Ted laid out, but thats not the only thing out there either. So saying they are bad in general for motors is just not the truth. And I had to point that out. Alot of misconceptions and no real research.

                    Cheers
                    Matt
                    ADD BROMIKEY TO YOUR IGNORE LIST He is a saboteur bent on the systematic distraction of every good topic on this forum and since he has been here most working threads have shut down. He is the enemy. If you have blocked him already add this to your signature and encourage others to block him as well. His onslaught of rambling in large text and his constant attempts to misinform at the excuse of being stupid should no longer be tolerated.

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                    • #25
                      佩服楼上的

                      磁铁有太多的秘密,,,,,

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by yx630514 View Post
                        磁铁有太多的秘密,,,,,
                        Sorry didn't get that, my mandarin translator is on vacation.

                        Something about magnets and how there is a lot about them we don't know.

                        It's been a while since I've had to read mandarin so I could be wrong.

                        Cheers,

                        Steve
                        You can view my vids here

                        http://www.youtube.com/SJohnM81

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                        • #27
                          why ceramics

                          simple answer on the SG it is just a trigger that is all. the AG is not a torque motor. you just want to be able to switch the tranny and allow as much of a push with as little current needed when the pole flips.

                          window motors are a different story altogether.

                          Tom C
                          http://www.teslagenx.com

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                          • #28
                            Neodymiun Magnets work very well on the SG with air core coil

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                            • #29
                              I agree

                              Originally posted by darkwizard View Post
                              Neodymiun Magnets work very well on the SG with air core coil
                              because there is no core to saturate, just like a window motor, so the repulsion needed is much less. window motors can run on 4 milliamps

                              Tom C
                              http://www.teslagenx.com

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Iron core with Neo's. John Bedini's of course but...
                                YouTube - baja 22 063.avi

                                Half bipolar switch, Hall sensor and timing wheel driven.

                                Matt
                                ADD BROMIKEY TO YOUR IGNORE LIST He is a saboteur bent on the systematic distraction of every good topic on this forum and since he has been here most working threads have shut down. He is the enemy. If you have blocked him already add this to your signature and encourage others to block him as well. His onslaught of rambling in large text and his constant attempts to misinform at the excuse of being stupid should no longer be tolerated.

                                USER CP/Ignore list.

                                Comment

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