Bedini School Boy Motor

[Aaron]

self runner

Hi Ren,

You can charge a cap and charge a batt from an SSG diode at the same time but would dilute each of the results. I would recommend experimenting with an isolated winding.

On the self runner, I have had similar concepts increase the front battery voltage, but I must warn you that if there isn't enough current, which has been my experience and only pure radiant back to the input, the voltage will climb but the battery will get damaged. You need the bare minimum amount of electron current to put the battery in charging mode. Also, the battery gets goofy if you try to alternate the charging and powering modes like this. They like to either power constantly or be charged constantly for a while but not flopping back and forth. It is a good demo to see the possibilities and a better way to do it and is a good learning experience but I wouldn't say it will be good for practical use and I don't think Rick is claiming it is a practical way to do it either but I could be wrong.

[elias]

Did you succeed in getting outputs of 1KVolts?

Aaron,

I asked you some time ago about the self-runner and you told me then that you had not achieved those thousand volt outputs of Rick's self-runner, I don't get any high peaks either.

Have you been able to get those high peaks? I am curious to know why should this happen? I get a sinwave output in the order of 20-30 volts peak-to-peak but not 1000 volts! It is enough to light a 12 volts light bulb very bright. Although it drags a bit when getting current from the coil, but the drag becomes negligible when the output of the coil is connected to a capacitor with a rectifier.

It would be good if Rick came up and talked about this a little bit.

Elias

[elias]

Very interesting!

I took a second look at Rick's schematic, and saw a very interesting claim:
Why should the coil produce over 1000v when one side of it is connected to the battery negative? It does not make any conventional sense! I will test to see if this works, I was not doing that.

Have any one got any idea of why these high voltages are produced?

Elias

[Jetijs]

Elias, I tested the selfrunner setup and it did produce pulses of 2000V. But the recovery coil must be pulsed to get this result and also in the right timing. If I did not pulse-discharge the coil, it produced only about 30V, but when I pulsed at the right time on each revolution with a relay to the primary battery, I could get those high voltages. Also, if I loaded the recovery coil just with a light bulb, it created a serious drag on the wheel, but when pulsing the coil, it did not create any drag at all I will draw a schematic of my setup later

[Jetijs]

Here is the circuit I used for the self runner setup

Ihe timing must be exact to get those high voltage spikes. I used a tiny magnet on the rotor, that triggered a reedswitch allowing the relay to pulse the energy from the recovery coil to the primary battery. In the same time the rest of the circuit is disconnected form the primary battery. The recovery coil has to have at least 20Ohms resistance, the higher the better, because when the speed rises at startup, you can see on the meter, that the voltage across the recovery coil increases. But the 2000V spikes start to appear only when about 30-35V are reached. So if your recovery coil can not generate at least 30 volts conventionally, it will be hard for you to get those high voltage spikes. If so, just add some more turns of wire on your coil. The magnets are in NSNS configuration. You must place the neo magnet so that it triggers the relay just after the N magnet has passed by the primary power coil and just before the next N magnet. That way you will get the high voltage.

[elias]

What's the spec of your coils.

The recovery coil has to have at least 20Ohms resistance, the higher the better, because when the speed rises at startup, you can see on the meter, that the voltage across the recovery coil increases. But the 2000V spikes start to appear only when about 30-35V are reached. So if your recovery coil can not generate at least 30 volts conventionally, it will be hard for you to get those high voltage spikes. If so, just add some more turns of wire on your coil.

Well thank you Jetijs,

May you tell me the specs of your coils? I mean what gauge wire and how many turns?
It seems that thinner wire maybe better, because it will have more impedance and more turns of it will fit it, I was thinking to use #35, #36, what do you think? we need not current, and only potential.

Have you put capacitors at the end of the bridge? I used a capacitor and it seemed that it had no drag on the rotor, despite the fact that loading it certainly has. I think that capacitors don't draw much current to get charged, and are charged mostly by potential.

Elias

[Jetijs]

elias,
My recovery coil has about 3000 turns or more with gauge 24 wire and some gauge 21 wire. I had not enough gauge 24 wire so I continued to wind the coil with a different wire size that I had. The resistance of the coil was 31 Ohms. The more turns, the higher the voltage generated and also the less speed is needed to get to the point where the high voltage spikes appear. The rotor speed is important, because if you use a relay for pulsing you should know that it can only operate at 10-14Hz or so. If the rotor speed is too fast, the relay wont have enough time to switch, if the speed is too slow, there will be less voltage generated. The spikes wont appear if you don't pulse-discharge the coil. So you may consider some different switching method. Also I did not use a capacitor across the bridge rectifier althought that did not create any noticable drag. As far as I know, Rick also did not use any capacitors nor did John Koorn who also succesfully replicated the self runner. I did not get the setup to self run, but I did got the high voltage and that is the first step. After all I abandoned the selfrunner replication process, because I found that pulsing a battery this way damages it and the battery will eventually fail. It is better and easier to pulse the high voltage to another seperated battery, this way you do not need to get the timing exactly right.

[elias]

Thanks

elias,
My recovery coil has about 3000 turns or more with gauge 24 wire and some gauge 21 wire. I had not enough gauge 24 wire so I continued to wind the coil with a different wire size that I had. The resistance of the coil was 31 Ohms. The more turns, the higher the voltage generated and also the less speed is needed to get to the point where the high voltage spikes appear. The rotor speed is important, because if you use a relay for pulsing you should know that it can only operate at 10-14Hz or so. If the rotor speed is too fast, the relay wont have enough time to switch, if the speed is too slow, there will be less voltage generated. The spikes wont appear if you don't pulse-discharge the coil. So you may consider some different switching method. Also I did not use a capacitor across the bridge rectifier although that did not create any noticeable drag. As far as I know, Rick also did not use any capacitors nor did John Koorn who also succesfully replicated the self runner. I did not get the setup to self run, but I did got the high voltage and that is the first step. After all I abandoned the selfrunner replication process, because I found that pulsing a battery this way damages it and the battery will eventually fail. It is better and easier to pulse the high voltage to another seperated battery, this way you do not need to get the timing exactly right.

Thanks
I did a simple experiment, to see how one can obtain charge from the coils without drag, this is one of my conclusions, If one attaches a large capacitor to the output of the coil it would drag the rotor a bit while charging, but if one places the iron core of the coil a bit away from the rotor and brings the core closer to the rotor while the capacitor charges, then no significant drag is felt.

One can design a generator this way which moves the cores of the coils while charging the capacitor, with no significant drag.

[albertMunich]

Battery getting damaged by recovery coil?

Hello everybody,

I have been following this discussion with great interest. I have tried the recovery coil and as you have said the battery voltage will remain constant for a while but then it drops and the whole process seems to damage the battery. So it seems to be a bad idea to flipflop the primary for a longer time. Rick never mentioned a longer test. I think that in the end it will run down....but I would love to be wrong here.....
As to the voltage spikes: Isn't there a phase difference when you use the NSNS magnet system? I think you might get a phase difference between the voltage on the negative side of the circuit and the spike being generated in the recovery coil. depending on where you put the coil on the circumference of the wheel. This way the voltages in the circuit and in the coil might add to each other..???

I strongly recommend to everyone to test at least a 24 volt setup of the bedini machine. I run my machine (five coils) on 3 batteries (36 to 40 Volts) on both sides. everything works much better this way, I use the 3055 transistors and all you have to change is the setting of the trigger pot (wire wound is a must here). watch the rotor speed though. I try not to go over 200-220 rpm on my bike rim rotor.

I wonder if some sort of lockup also happens when one swaps batteries in the setup without a pulsing cap. The output batteries fill with the radiant and with my current setup I seem to be able to swap batteries only as long as I stay with two very well charged batteries. In the 13 to 14 volt/battery range.

A good way to measure the point where battery swapping is best done is to look at the sum voltage between primary neg and secondary positive pole. This drops at first -the surface charge dissipates- but then goes up - the secondary will charge a bit faster as the primary goes down. Lead acid batteries have these funny discharge curves where they can stay at a certain voltage for a long time and then they will suddenly drop. If you look at hte sum voltage these non linearities cancel themselves out somewhat. I can do this swapping several times and then the batteries seem to "lock up" the secondary just won't charge anymore.
I have tried the recovery to a different battery by using an unused trigger wire in one of the coils. Just a FWBR on the coil. That seems to work but it slows down the charging in the rest of the batteries.
There is still a lot to learn for me on these circuits....

I think this forum is the best one around and having DR Lindemann at your sides certainly helps! Keep up the good work!

Albert

[elias]

Self-Runner Spikes

Hi

I finally got some time to experiment with the self-runner coils. As I experimented thoroughly I conclude that the high voltage
spikes appear after the swicth opens like the collapsing magnetic fields when pulsing the coils, but this time the coil is charged by the moving magnet instead of the battery. When the battery is pulsed, the spike is release afterwards, when the relay opens. So I think that as we pulse the battery these spikes get stored in the capacitance of the coils and build up there for better pulsing each time, but not so sure. Maybe we can capture these spikes and charge another battery with them. The attached scope shot clearly shows the fact that the spike is released when the relay is opened.

Elias

[yonadav2]

please help

Hello people, I tried replicating the self runner
my only problem is getting the recovery pulse to charge the battery, It's weird... I see the spark and the collapsing field can light up neon bulbs very bright, and when touching the rods you can feel the sting, but the energy is just bypassing the battery and not charging it.
I connected in parallel another diode bridge and connected to it a neon bulb and a small dc motor in series, the bulb will shine very hard but the motor's not moving, it's reactive to it and also to the battery, not sure how to use it to charge the battery, maybe conditioning must happen first? please help anyone??

[wrtner]

This is my latest Self-runner setup with full pictures and video. Exhaustive details. Don't ask for any more. If you ask I know you didn't read all the details. Don't ask to see it as it WAS only intended for encouragement. The time has come to show this all, and John has promised to show this even easier.

Directory:Bedini SG:Self-Runner - PESWiki

Towards the bottom of this page, there is this link
which looks very interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq-nxPkQa7g

It says: "Account closed"

The implication is that Youtube closed the account, and
not the user. I know someone else who had this happen
for no reason that he can think of.

Does anyone know why is this going on?

[yonadav2]

nothing unusual

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq-nxPkQa7g

the person who uploaded the video has deleted the video

[wrtner]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq-nxPkQa7g

the person who uploaded the video has deleted the video

It says that it is the account that has been deleted.

[stoni2041]

heya

I know I am new here but I am hoping this quick video clip helps to explain the voltage spike. :-)
I know this is kind of an old discussion and I'm sure by now most have moved on to solid state, but this applies there too.
Disruptive Discharge Example (B-EMF, C-EMF) - YouTube
I have been working on several of the energy pumps over the last couple of years and have been trying to find ways to break down most of what is going on with these devices to their simplest parts.
I am not going to jump on making claims as to what I have personally accomplished as I am new to this forum, but I love the reference that this forum has provided and wanted to be sure to say thank you to you all for your hard work and your dedication.