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  • Originally posted by madhatter View Post
    Really appreciate your effort in keeping Erics contact with the group going as best as possible.

    Is there any possibility of Eric willing to give lectures/course feedback? Would he be open to small group lectures where attendees pay for the privilege of getting a small group lecture and feedback?

    It'd probably generate a decent amount of cash to support and help Eric along and at the same time for those who truly want to learn and understand his work would get the opportunity to sit and learn via lecture w/ Q&A. It doesn't even have to be in person either, technology allows for remote live group interaction.

    autodidact learning while possible for some still lacks the feedback and free-associated knowledge gained from actual face time with an educator.

    just a thought..

    further too, it would also lend itself to where not only he could 'teach' and educate but also have 'lab' time instruction. that would help in getting a lab back to him as well. organized annual teaching courses are very common in engineering and scientific industries.

    Dave, once again, thank you, for your time and effort
    I'll mention the idea to him again. His response last time I mentioned it wasn't in favor of the idea because of the possibility of forming an ant trail to his hideout. That is a small obstacle to overcome so I'll see if I can convince him of it again.

    Comment


    • Eric's Condition

      Dave,
      Many thanks for the update on Eric's condition and good to see he is making some headway.
      Getting a letter off to him with some pictures and hoping he may be able to answer some questions with regard the Vacuum Tube devices.
      Ready to power up the CSI here with his Vacuum Tube Pulse Generator which works well but he has not progressed with any plan and I guess he did have a plan in mind.

      Have a situation here where I need to attennuate the signal input to the CSI as it pegs the Intensity meter out of the Extra Coil.
      So weak is the signal output from the Sig Gen (100mV - 20db attenuation and minimum output) that my regular Frequency readout can no longer read and have had to revert to one I made up in kit form some years ago.
      Will get back when I have some powered results.
      Just needs a bigger amp meter at the output and something bigger than the 50uA.
      This only happens when you have a capacity between secondary and extra and preferably variable.

      Progressing with Moray and more on that later.

      Smokey

      Comment


      • Vibrators

        Infunity,
        Good to see others interested in Eric's PP-18/AR and you may be interested in this article about Vibrators and their upkeep:

        http://paleoelectronics.com/RDH4/CHAPTR32.PDF

        Have just built a modified (240v vice 117v) +/- 700volt power supply from 'The Radio Handbook' by William Orr (Page 698) and the next article happened to be on multivibrators.
        Interesting here to see that William noted that the split-reed was just 'new' and that was in 1959 when the PP-18/AR was first used during WW2.
        Cant seem to get time to build that device but perhaps after the CSI.
        Have other information here on multivibrators for anyone needing assistance.

        The Handbook above is available from Scribd but they are asking $9 for a monthly account which I do from time to time as my list builds for special books.

        Smokey

        Comment


        • Crystal Set Initiative

          dR-Green,
          Excellent work and diagrams as usual, however, two questions.
          Don't see any difference between the Tandem and the Concatenated drawings and would have expected the Concatenated output to be way above the Tandem but that is not the case.
          Am I missing something here?
          Thanks.

          Getting back into the CSI testing after all the Vacuum Tube builds and seeing some results that are not making sense.
          Very clear to have a capacity between Secondary and Extra and using a small variable single-gang radio Condenser vice the Copper ring is worthy of experiment.
          Have completed the integrated and variable Condensers into the Primary and testing that now.
          Will put up a pic at 'n6kph'.

          Smokey

          Comment


          • vice

            Originally posted by David G Dawson View Post
            dR-Green,

            ... Getting back into the CSI testing after all the Vacuum Tube builds and seeing some results that are not making sense.
            Very clear to have a capacity between Secondary and Extra and using a small variable single-gang radio Condenser vice the Copper ring is worthy of experiment.

            Smokey
            Dear David G Dawson, I can't be sure what this means: "single-gang radio Condenser vice the Copper ring" or even (if it turns out to be a typo e.g. 'via') come up with a certain guess. Could it be "in series with" or "in parallel with"?

            Many thanks for sharing so much of your hard work.

            Comment


            • Variable Condenser

              Chazza,
              Eric back in the old Forum at Page 13 is very clear and I Quote:
              "As for the Extra Coil I cannot overemphasise NO direct metallic connection. NO.
              It must be capacitive coupling in test setup. It MUST."

              In preference to the Copper rings (which I have here to the exact size) as the coupling capacitive medium, I am simply using an old radio single-gang Condenser to give me some idea of what this is all about and this makes the tuning easier as there is no physical adjustment of the rings.
              I will go back to the rings as a comparison a little later.

              Posting some pics now at 'n6kph'.

              Smokey

              Comment


              • Has anyone else spoken with George? I've been emailing him and he just said that there has been progress since the last time I emailed him (2 months ago roughly) and he'd let me know when there was more progress. I offered to buy them from him as I thought it'd be fairly easy to source the funds through this forum but he declined this offer because the SF Tesla society has a reputation to uphold and cannot release bad quality lectures, or something along those lines anyway.

                Chazza, you want a capacitance so to tickle the extra coil circuit but not force it into oscillation as you would with a direct metallic connection so that the extra coil is free to resonate by itself on it's own terms and not dictated by the secondary, only excited. At least that's how I am seeing it.

                Raui
                Scribd account; http://www.scribd.com/raui

                Comment


                • Originally posted by David G Dawson View Post
                  dR-Green,
                  Excellent work and diagrams as usual, however, two questions.
                  Don't see any difference between the Tandem and the Concatenated drawings and would have expected the Concatenated output to be way above the Tandem but that is not the case.
                  Am I missing something here?
                  Thanks Smokey. No you're not missing anything. The setup is exactly the same in both situations, only the frequency is different. Also as Eric said no one knows if Concatenated resonance is even possible, everything so far has resulted in a lower Concatenated mode potential than Tandem mode. Although I'm measuring it through the field that can be picked up around the coils, so I'm not ruling out the possibility that only the "measured" potential is lower at the given distance, the field itself is different so it's not necessarily an accurate comparison I don't think. I had previously put the lower Concatenated potential down to the fact the secondary is too high frequency and needs to be tuned down a lot resulting in an an inefficiency, but since replacing the test coil with the two turn primary and adding a condenser I'm not so sure about that any more either. So there's still plenty of room for more tests on everything.
                  http://www.teslascientific.com/

                  "Knowledge is cosmic. It does not evolve or unfold in man. Man unfolds to an awareness of it. He gradually discovers it." - Walter Russell

                  "Once men died for Truth, but now Truth dies at the hands of men." - Manly P. Hall

                  Comment


                  • Infunity:

                    I read your post about Eric's device in his car and the reference you posted to it. But, after reading the reference, I don't understand what device you are talking about.

                    Sorry for being dense, but what there is related to the Tesla Switch?

                    Dense Rick

                    Comment


                    • Field Intensity continued

                      This is a video of the field intensity using an AV plug and 3 parallel red LEDs. I know Eric said not to use LEDs but I'm not using enough power for incandescent bulbs, this is just to show the effect as seen in the test setup. There isn't amazing clarity because it's difficult to show the effect and the overall situation at the same time, but I think enough can be seen to get the idea across.

                      The coils are tuned exactly as before, except now the one turn test coil has been replaced with the two turn primary, there's no primary condenser, and the coupling is tighter than before, hence the higher voltage. Note that the Concatenated mode extra coil probe reading has increased from 65mV to 99mV as a result of the tighter coupling, but the secondary probe has gone from 5mV to only 7mV. With some more adjustment I think the secondary can probably be tuned out (of measurement) completely, but there's no definite confirmation of this yet.

                      Tesla Magnifying Transmitter - Tandem Vs. Concatenated Resonance - YouTube

                      There also appears to be some phase differences between the two coils in this mode. It's too early to say more than that because of the difficulty in measuring it, but there's definitely a slight phase difference observed compared to Tandem mode. I would speculate to say that when the secondary is "tuned out" properly then the phase difference should be maximised, but then it would be unmeasurable to be able to confirm it. Either way I wouldn't have expected even the slightest phase difference to be detected no matter how small, so it's noted here.

                      [edit]

                      Data for the coils tuned as above:

                      Secondary coil:

                      Diameter = 20.4cm
                      Height = 4.08cm
                      Number Of Turns = 20
                      Conductor Length = 13.079 metres
                      Luminal Wavelength = 52.316 metres
                      Free Space Propagation = 102%
                      Tuned Propagation = 51.9393%
                      Free Space Frequency = 5845.024 kc
                      Luminal Frequency = 5730.416 kc
                      Tuned Frequency = 2993 kc
                      Effective Capacitance for sine quarter wave distribution (average) = 40.43pF
                      Effective Inductance for cosine quarter wavelength current distribution (average) = 71.57ÁH
                      Characteristic Impedance (average) = 1340 Ohms
                      ω = 18724041.87 Radians/sec
                      Frequency = 2980023 Cycles/sec

                      Extra coil:

                      Diameter = 8.28cm
                      Height = 8.28cm
                      Number Of Turns = 93.25
                      Conductor Length = 24.256 metres
                      Luminal Wavelength = 97.024 metres
                      Free Space Propagation = 187%
                      Free Space Frequency = 5778.074 kc
                      Luminal Frequency = 3089.879 kc

                      Direct:

                      Tuned Propagation = 98.1614%
                      Tuned Frequency = 3033 kc
                      Effective Capacitance for sine quarter wave distribution (average) = 10pF
                      Effective Inductance for cosine quarter wavelength current distribution (average) = 277.74ÁH
                      Characteristic Impedance (average) = 5308 Ohms
                      ω = 19111368.27 Radians/sec
                      Frequency = 3041668 Cycles/sec

                      10pF:

                      Tuned Propagation = 111.2366%
                      Tuned Frequency = 3437 kc
                      Effective Capacitance for sine quarter wave distribution (average) = 7.78pF
                      Effective Inductance for cosine quarter wavelength current distribution (average) = 277.74ÁH
                      Characteristic Impedance (average) = 6015 Ohms
                      ω = 21657030.25 Radians/sec
                      Frequency = 3446823 Cycles/sec
                      Last edited by dR-Green; 11-17-2012, 08:41 AM.
                      http://www.teslascientific.com/

                      "Knowledge is cosmic. It does not evolve or unfold in man. Man unfolds to an awareness of it. He gradually discovers it." - Walter Russell

                      "Once men died for Truth, but now Truth dies at the hands of men." - Manly P. Hall

                      Comment


                      • Hi dR, It looks to me like in you're concatenated mode you have a half wave
                        on the extra coil and maybe a bit more than a 1/4 wave on the secondary. I base
                        my opinion on the way there appears to be a 0 volt node in the center of the
                        extra coil and the voltage seems to drop off before the top of the secondary.

                        I think to get a 1/4 wave on the extra coil ending in a HV at the top then
                        there would have to be a 0 volt node at the bottom of the extra coil which
                        means there would also be a zero volt node at the at the top of the
                        secondary and if that was the case with a 1/4 wave on the secondary there
                        would need to be a HV node at the ground which is impossible.

                        I don't think it will be in any way possible to have a 1/4 wave on the
                        secondary with a HV node at the top of the secondary and also have a 1/4
                        wave on the extra coil with a HV at the top of it because that would mean
                        the extra coil would need a 0 volt node at the bottom of it and that cannot
                        happen when the secondary has a HV node in the same place.

                        The only way i can see to have a 1/4 WL on the extra coil with a HV at the
                        top would be if the secondary had a 1/2 wl on it or the equivalent. Otherwise
                        if the secondary has a 1/4 wave on it with the zero volt node at the ground
                        at least a 3/4 wavelength would be needed to get a HV at the top of the
                        extra coil or the equivalent ie, a HV at the bottom and a HV at the top.

                        That would be undesirable I think, I think the HV needs to be at the top of the
                        Extra coil and nowhere else to avoid problem with very high potentials.

                        I can't see how it would be in any way possible to have 1/4 wl on both the
                        secondary and the extra coil separately and also have the HV at the top of
                        the extra coil. That would require a zero volt node and a HV node to exist in
                        the same place and time. Wouldn't it ?

                        How would concatenated mode be possible ? What is the wave structure desired for "concatenated mode" ?

                        Cheers
                        Last edited by Farmhand; 11-18-2012, 04:30 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Hi Farmhand

                          Originally posted by Farmhand View Post
                          I don't think it will be in any way possible to have a 1/4 wave on the
                          secondary with a HV node at the top of the secondary and also have a 1/4
                          wave on the extra coil with a HV at the top of it because that would mean
                          the extra coil would need a 0 volt node at the bottom of it and that cannot
                          happen when the secondary has a HV node in the same place.
                          I don't think so, because all potential is relative. Whether you have 0 and 10 or 10 and 20, the potential difference is the same in both situations. Also the perspective of the camera makes it look a bit different to what it actually is.

                          I think in Tandem mode what you say applies in terms of where the nodes are, the 1/4 wave distribution has to be over both coils. But in Concatenated mode, I think the idea is more closely explained with sound in a cylinder in the video on the other thread, when the wave reaches the end of the pipe it reflects back. So I think what's desirable in this case is for the secondary to be seen as one finite length (1/4 wave) of tube that causes a reflection of the wave at the top, whatever potential is at the top of the secondary can be considered the "ground" for the extra coil seeing as it's only relative, and the extra coil needs to act as another tube of finite length excited from the "ground" potential equal to the top of the secondary. The lower Concatenated potential obtained so far compared to Tandem mode could be a result of this 1/4 wave reflecting back in the secondary rather than exciting the extra coil efficiently, so if it reflects then how can you equally get it to resonate a second tube is the problem I suppose. But it's all quite confusing so I'm open to thoughts and opinions.

                          Apart from the perspective, I think the LEDs are lit at the bottom of the extra coil to that extent because that's where the wire joining the secondary is, and the field is relatively strong inside the secondary. With the single turn test coil and lower voltage the energy seems to disappear towards the bottom of the extra coil and looks even more obvious than in the video. Why there would be "zero potential" in the extra coil at all is the strange thing, why does the energy that the secondary radiates in that area anyway vanish in this mode, and the same with the extra coil. The potential should be high enough at other points for it to be detectable, there shouldn't be "nothing". So with this in mind among other things I think it will be possible to tune this out completely, I'll start testing that tomorrow.
                          http://www.teslascientific.com/

                          "Knowledge is cosmic. It does not evolve or unfold in man. Man unfolds to an awareness of it. He gradually discovers it." - Walter Russell

                          "Once men died for Truth, but now Truth dies at the hands of men." - Manly P. Hall

                          Comment


                          • Oh ok I get it. It's not easy to show a whole setup like that and do everything
                            alone, good job. I notice with my setups there is an out of phase resonance
                            at a higher frequency than the tandem 1/4 wave frequency, for me the
                            tandem frequency is at about 780 kc and the next resonant (out of phase)
                            condition is at about 1450 kc depending on the tuning it varies of course.
                            Anyway I notice that if things are tuned a certain way the higher frequency
                            resonance can be comparable to the lower frequency in maximum voltage but
                            the primary and secondary are 180 degrees out of phase. I suppose I ought
                            to check the coil as you did to see whats going on. It is interesting. Did you
                            try varying the primary capacitance a very small amount or otherwise change
                            the primary resonant frequency a small amount and tune both ways ? I found
                            that the length of wire other than the primary itself in the primary circuit is
                            crucial to tuning as is the ground lead length. I found when I tuned the
                            primary resonant frequency to a little bit more or less than what is optimal for
                            the tandem tune when I tune to the higher resonance the effect can be
                            better. What I see is totally repeatable because it happens with all the three
                            coil setups I have to a differing degree. And the primary and secondary become
                            180 degrees out of phase exactly.

                            I'll do a spreadsheet soon.

                            Cheers

                            Comment


                            • Infunity: Never mind, found my answer

                              Infunity:

                              Thanks again for the excellent post.

                              I found my answer about Eric's car device with a picture of it elsewhere.

                              Tuks Unsorted KieknWatTWordt Stuff : Energetic Form Posts

                              It is discussed after the discussion and pictures:

                              "There was also the Rotary Electromagnetic Converter, constructed by Michael Knots and Peter Lindemann with the help of Chris Carson."

                              Thanks again.

                              Dense Rick

                              Comment


                              • I wonder how many watts that rotary converter produce ?

                                As far I understood, when a cap is high the other is low, so energy shuttled at each turn (3 times per turn).
                                Since the two caps are 180░ out of phase, electrostatic force are in equilibrium so it doesn't load the motor.
                                Then an AC current is "induced" between the two caps, current value and voltage droop at the load will indicate Power.
                                Rectifying and choosing the best impedance will be required to extract the maximum of power from the machine.
                                The energy is conserved during the whole process inside the two caps (I neglect capacitor leakage losses).

                                Comment

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