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  • bistander
    replied
    Pulse

    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    Here are the two circuits I am working with.
    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    That battery is being charged by the motor running current. The magic pulse from the Matt modded motor is supposed to go to the source battery, isn't it?

    A diagram would help.
    Thanks.


    3BGS with BOOST CONVERTER

    So the current flows out of the converter output + into the motor +. Then it flows out of motor - into battery C +. Current will flow from battery C - into battery B -. Because current flows from + to - inside battery C, it charges battery C.

    The magic pulse from the Matt modded motor flows the opposite way, out of the motor + into the + source terminal, which is usually a battery which will accept the pulse. However in this case, the motor + is connected to converter output +. There is a diode inside the converter which blocks current from flowing in this direction. The result is that this pulse never reaches the source battery (B) but instead increases the converter output capacitor charge, which is inconsequential.

    bi

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    Circuits

    Thanks Dave,
    Now I see what you referred to in the first email.

    Time to think over nuked cup of coffee.
    wantomake

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    Circuits

    Here are the two circuits I am working with.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    Resent

    Sorry I resent the email. IPhone doesn't send email sometimes.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    E mail

    No. I didnít get an email from you.

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    Email

    Dave I sent you an email about the 3BGS diagram. Did you receive it?

    wantomake
    Last edited by wantomake; 11-29-2018, 01:45 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    Diagram?

    SSUPPOSEDLY you already built this from previously (dozens of times) posted diagrams, yet you do not seem to know how it goes together. In BOTH the 3 battery circuit and the single battery circuit the output of the boost goes to the positive of the motor and the negative of the motor goes to battery 3 in the 3 battery setup or to the positive of the primary in the single battery setup. In ZERO diagrams have I shown the output of the motor going to the boost converter.

    There are SONE diagrams that show a SECOND boost converter running directly off battery 3, but thatís s whole different story.

    Leave a comment:


  • bistander
    replied
    Which battery

    Originally posted by Turion View Post
    How can the boost module block the charge impulse from the motor when the motor is running between the OUTPUT of the boost module and the battery. If you are running it any other way,no wonder you canít get positive results.
    That battery is being charged by the motor running current. The magic pulse from the Matt modded motor is supposed to go to the source battery, isn't it?

    A diagram would help.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    How can the boost module block the charge impulse from the motor when the motor is running between the OUTPUT of the boost module and the battery. If you are running it any other way,no wonder you can’t get positive results.

    Leave a comment:


  • bistander
    replied
    Don't think I said that

    Originally posted by citfta View Post
    I am surprised you did not see any benefit from pulse charging batteries. ... <snip>
    ...
    It is fine that you don't want to spend time on the 3BGS. But it is certainly NOT fine that you want to keep claiming it doesn't work when you haven't tried it.
    ...
    Hi citfta,

    I said I saw some temporary improvement from pulsing. That was confined to batteries which likely suffered from sulfation. There may be some benefit to healthy batteries in longevity but in the lab we could find no performance improvement. Our test we're not comprehensive and happened about 20 years ago. I have not seen published scientific literature confirmation. And for years I received battery industry journals and periodicals. But not here to argue that. BTW, do you find it odd that Turion insists on the Matt modded motor and a boost converter when the converter contains a diode which blocks any "charge" pulse going to the battery from the motor?

    And I don't think you find me saying that the 3bgs does not work. Maybe I slipped once and said that but I don't think so. What I have said is there is no valid proof that it is better than using batteries in the conventional manner. And that I have no interest in building a 3bgs. You'll notice the system I did build and test used a single battery. I thought it provided a clean demonstration.

    Actually, I rarely claim something doesn't work. What I do is ask for data and proof of the claims made about the thing.

    Been nice,

    bi

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    Ignore list

    The reason I don't care what anyone post here is simple. I deal with unbelief all the time. The "ignore list" is great to use. I get no benefit from reading anything from the ones that don't build or want to see a system work. As a seasoned and tried missionary, I see a great deal of unbelief because when people don't see it then it's not real. I've seen spiritual powers-that-be and know how they kill, steal, and destroy but I know the Name of Jesus does defeat them. So the powers-that-be in this FE world are easy to see and ignore.
    Their words and methods never ever change.

    Data and numbers are good if that helps someone. Then tptb will say you measured wrong or that's the incorrect raw data. Where does it stop? It never will.

    Tptb from FE or spiritual, can't tell me what I've seen isn't real. Because I've seen both!!!

    What a shame for them.
    wantomake

    Leave a comment:


  • citfta
    replied
    Originally posted by bistander View Post
    Thanks citfta and Turion,

    citfta,

    Did this guy ever measure or quantify his results? These successes always appear subjective to me. The restrictions like less than the 20 hour rate and battery swaps and rest periods mean a controlled test would require weeks with close attention. Otherwise, the fact that the 3bgs has significantly more batteries will yield longer run times not to mention the continual attention being a benefit to the 3bgs.

    Back to the balance question, or answer, it looks like sizing the 3bgs system for the load is the only way. That doesn't seem practical for a home power system where the load is constantly changing. The primary purpose of batteries on home solar installations is to buffer or contend with varying loads, like night to day, or refrigerator or pumps cycling. So wouldn't the balanced 3gbs installation into an existing battery assisted home solar PV system double or triple the total battery count for the home owner?

    citfta, are you using a 3bgs for anything useful? Is anybody here doing so?

    You can take or leave it, but I've been involved with energy conversion and energy storage for 40 years. I've tested thousands of batteries and hundreds of motors and generators. I really like the modern Lithium based batteries and really hate the lead acid. I have no desire to increase the amount of lead acid on my property. In all of the testing on lead acid which I've done or studied, I've never seen more than a temporary improvement from pulse charging and never any indication of "running between positives" as beneficial. Just stating reasons that I'm not interested in building the 3bgs, as you always tell me to do. The only quantitative controlled test which I've seen does not support your 3bgs claims. Of course Turion objects to that test. All this time, has no one else instrumented and recorded data from a controlled 3bgs test?

    Oh well, back to other stuff. Carry on.

    bi
    Hello again,

    I have highlighted again some areas you asked about. The guy in Tennessee conducted many many tests on his system. He is a single guy who only worked as a truck driver when he wanted to. The rest of the time he spent doing research on alternative energy. Primarily the 3BGS and various kinds of generators to use with the 3BGS system. I don't have any of the results of his tests but I think some of them are buried in this thread somewhere. You would have to look back in probably the first half of this thread to find those results. But he was very convinced that he got longer run times using the 3BGS.

    You are correct that this is not a practical system for most people to use to power their home. It just takes too much attention and time to keep everything in balance and working correctly. But there are very many things that are not practical. That doesn't mean they don't work! It is certainly possible to run your home by using steam power to turn a generator. And that of course will work. But for most people that is just not practical or worth the trouble. But as far as the loads constantly changing that can be dealt with. That is just a simple engineering problem that can be met several ways. But again all that is not practical.

    For those reasons listed above, no I am not using the 3BGS for anything useful. But I have proven to myself that it does work. Saying something is not practical is not the same as saying it doesn't work. If nothing else the 3BGS is a great learning experiment. And if you were living off the grid it could very well mean the difference between success and failure at providing your own source of power.

    I am surprised you did not see any benefit from pulse charging batteries. This method of charging lead acid batteries has been around a while. But the frequency of the pulses and the voltage and current of them all play a part in the success or failure of the charging process. The commercial charger I have uses a microprocessor to monitor the battery and adjust the pulses accordingly.

    I have been very busy with family matters for several months now. I am hoping to get some time to work with the boost circuit here in the hopefully near future. IF I get time to work on that I will provide all the data I can about what I find. I know Matt and Dave personally. I know what they have told me that I have had time to verify has been true.

    It is fine that you don't want to spend time on the 3BGS. But it is certainly NOT fine that you want to keep claiming it doesn't work when you haven't tried it.

    I understand what you are saying about the newer Lithium base batteries. But they have their problems also. I use them regularly in my RC airplanes. The power to weight ratio is amazing. But, I have never had a lead acid battery catch fire while in operation. And I have personally had that happen with one of my Lithium batteries. The plane took off just fine and at about 100 feet in the air there was a sudden explosion and the plane came tumbling down. The battery was blown out to the plane and landed on the ground. And as you are probably aware the fire of a burning Lithium battery is very hard to put out as they burn so hot. Of course it eventually burned up. I only charge mine in a special fireproof bag made just for that purpose. Any source of stored energy has the potential to be dangerous.

    Respectfully,
    Carroll

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    Data

    Wantomake,
    The fact that you have built it and seen it work is not going to be enough for bi. He wants hard data, which you have not provided. Therefore, you do not know for sure whether it works or not. Because you haven't PROVED it to him.

    But that's ok. Just keep on doing what you are doing and that will be your reward.

    Leave a comment:


  • wantomake
    replied
    Changed mind

    Originally posted by wantomake View Post
    Update.
    Did try the 3BGS setup as per Dave's email today. Tried my old lithium battery packs I built, but the packs sit too long and lost too much amperage. Therefore will move three marine batteries over to try.

    Nothing new to post but still trying to get back to testing and such.

    wantomake
    I changed my mind. No more moving marine batteries around.

    I did build and test Dave and Matt's 3BGS with boosters and got the system balanced to retain same voltage during test runs. Saw it with my eyes and I know it works.

    I did build somewhat of a version of Dave's upright generator and it did SUUL. That means it does indeed exist.

    I only failed to join the two together in one unit. I know it would've been a wondrous thing to feel, see, and experience.

    But my disease "if I take it all apart and build it bigger/better" took over. So all is dismantled and just collecting dust. What a shame.

    No I'm not starting all over again. I followed directly the plan, took advice while driving Dave/Matt crazy, spent resources and put in the time.

    Now I wonder what could have been with lots of time, knowledge, decent shop that doesn't leak rain water, monies, oh and just a little more love of the adventure of seeing Free Energy made real.

    wantomake
    Last edited by wantomake; 11-28-2018, 07:35 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Turion
    replied
    Tests

    bi,
    I have run literally HUNDREDS of tests over the last ten years, and have records of all of them in my notebooks. I havenít taken the time to do a video of that testing, because as YOU said, it would take DAYS to record the entire test, and then people are going to dispute my results anyway.

    The test which showed no positive results that you are referring to was a joke. We told him several times that what he was doing was NOT going to elicit positive results. For the three battery system to show ANY extended run times with an off the shelf motor (which is what I was initially using) the system MUST be tuned. I said that at the VERY BEGINNING of the thread. Did he tune the system? No, he did not. Did he use large batteries? No, he did not. When I first started I was using smaller batteries and a stock motor. My results were hit and miss. And I was pretty experienced at tuning the system. It all came down to the specific batteries used.

    With the addition of the Matt motor, the frequency of having successful runs went way up. But STILL there were times when I just couldnít get it. With the addition of the boost module the success rate became like 98%. There are STILL times it wonít work and I have to switch out one or more of the batteries to be successful.

    So when some guy slaps together a stock motor with whatever batteries he has lying around, and has no boost module in the circuit, I can pretty much guarantee he is going to fail to see any positive results. And THAT is the ďdefinitiveĒ test of this system you are standing by? Is that REAL research? If you want to test whether something works or not you actually have to REPLICATE the original device.

    I offered to send you a motor and wire to rewind it with FOR FREE so you could test the system with the correct components and you declined. To ME that speaks volumes about your desire to know the truth about this setup. You want everything handed to you and have NO desire to do any serious research on your own. So you will get the answers you deserve.

    Leave a comment:

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