3 Battery Generating System

[Mario]

Across the board. BUT, because there is a “time” variable here, I have found that you want to make final adjustments when the machine is up to speed.

Dave what do you mean with "across the board"? I was planning on putting the magnets where you said in your video, meaning one in-between every two coils, so that they're always opposite of the rotor magnet that's in front of a core.

On a much smaller setup rods that would stick out from the back almost one coil length seemed to work better.

How about some kind of iron core with some little holes drilled in the back to circulate cooling liquid in the core. With that, on top of the electric output, water could be heated as well!

cheers,
Mario

[Turion]

Solution

Mario,

For a long time I DIDNT give out all the particulars on the generator because I intended to patent it, and old habits die hard. I’m trying to change my ways, at least concerning THIS project.

There is a method I BELIEVE will work to eliminate the heat problem or at least make it manageable, which is the same thing. In MY design of the generator the back end of every coil is accessible. This allows you to attach a NON-magnetic cylinder to the back of every coil as a HEAT SINK that will be exposed to open air or could be cooled with a fan. I tried this ONE time and it seemed to be successful, so that is actually what I was going to try FiRST, because iron definitely produces the MOST output. I even thought of using much longer iron rods, like twice the length of the actual coil and just let them stick out the back. I haven’t tested that yet.

Want a cheap metal cylinder as a heat sink? Dimes, pennies, nickles and quarters are all non-magnetic. I don’t know which would make the BEST heat sink. I’m hoping for pennies stacked together since they would be cheapest.

[Turion]

Is this it?

Hi Dave,

tomorrow I should receive the magnets to try the magnetic neutralization with. Same diameter as the cores, and I ordered different widths for best adjustments.

Question:

Thanks to the magnetic neutralization, do you see the amp reduction during startup only, or also at full speed, compared to a setup with no neutralization?

cheers,
Mario

Across the board. BUT, because there is a “time” variable here, I have found that you want to make final adjustments when the machine is up to speed.

As to core material. I am thinking a mixture of those iron rods and ferrite powder. I got a 10 pound box and that is what I wanted to start researching, but life is going to be in my way until probably this summer.

[Turion]

Questions

Mario,

What questions did you ask that I didn’t answer? If I can, I will be happy to answer.

I just got back from a two week vacation to see my kids and grandkids, so I haven’t been paying too much attention. I have this weekend “off” from work but starting Monday I am back at it.

netica,
There is NO drag of the core material if you use magnetic neutralization. NONE.

[Netica]

Mario and all,
Quite a while ago I did some simple experiments with the speed up under load and I wound a coil that was very very long only a single strand. but I wanted to see how long it had to be before I get this effect. I also was trying different cores. The most notable thing I found after creating a very long and big coil is that the core material is the thing that ended up creating the speed up. Giving that this was a single wire and extremely long length I was surprised that the core material made so much difference. The thing is the drag of the core material made it pointless in the end.

This is just my own simple and LIMITED try out with trying to get the speed up effect.

netica

[NROC]

Hey Mario

Thanks for clearing up the misconceptions with regards to the patent and generator didn't mean to confuse anybody. I agree that the Tesla patent doesn't necessarily contribute anything 'magical' to it.

I disagree that the reactance becomes infinite in a resonance condition for any coil with inductance and capacitance. The reactance is still zero in the parallel resonance condition its just that the impedance goes to maximum because the currents are bouncing back and forth between the capacitive and inductive portions of the circuit. Because the currents bounce back and forth between L and C that portion of the circuit looks like an open circuit to the source and only the resistive part of the impedance exists. That is - that the resistive part of the impedance goes to maximum but the reactance still goes to zero.

I dont have any experience building these coils into motors I have never tried it so I wont comment anymore on that. I do however have a lot of experience with Tesla's coils and building resonant transformers and that is why i wanted to correct your statement. In fact, if you build a coil that utilises a parallel resonance condition and make the coil in such a way that the magnetic fields can cancel one another as the currents oscillate between L and C you will produce a longitudinal wave with the addition that you must suppress any radiation as EM waves (no sparks). Bifilar coils work well and mobius coils inherently do this. it can also be done with normal solenoids and pancake coils. The tricky part is detecting them which cant be done with normal RF antennas. Anyway this is a topic probably meant for a different thread.

All the best

[Mario]

About the Tesla coil patent. Yes it creates capacitance in the coil, and at resonance you get a tank circuit of infinite reactance, not zero, because in a bifilar setup coil inductance and capacitance are in parallel (can't put them in series), meaning inside the tank you get max amps bouncing back and forth between the capacitive charges in between the wires, and the magnetic field of the coil. It actually behaves just like it does if you would add an external parallel cap to the coil, except the Q is lower.

I'm saying this not because I just want to contribute BS to this thread, but because of the many many tests on the bench I did over the last years. The bifilar doesn't do anything magical to the generator coil, and before you start firing and flooding this thread with all kinds of comments and posts DO THE EXPERIMENT on the bench!!! Wind 2 coils with 2 wires of the dame length, except on one coil you cut the wire in half and wind the 2 halves in parallel and connect them in series. So you have one normal coil with X length of wire, and another bifilar coil which has the same X length of wire but bifilar. Next, measure the inductance of the two coils. It's the same. The difference is that the bifilar has some capacitance while the normal one barely hasn't any.
Now put the normal coil in front of a rotor with magnets on it. Now find at what speed you start getting no drag if you short the coil or using a defined load. THEN replace the normal coil with the bifilar coil and repeat. You will barely find any difference in behaviour. Now you can argue all you want, but do so ONLY after you did the experiment or shut up!!! I have no time to read theoretical stuff about this and that. I believe what I see on the bench.

Now I will repeat myself, I said this quite a couple of times on this thread. But again, do the experiment, THEN talk. There CAN be a difference between the 2 coils if the bifilar coil has high enough capacitance (or if you add parallel cap). If the relationship between its capacitance and inductance approaches a resonant peak, and I mean unloaded, the rotor will slow down, actually at resonance the motor will almost stop (having a variac to drive the motor helps to do the experiment). The huge amps developed in the tank work directly and completely against the inducing magnets! IF YOU SHORT an unloaded bifilar coil that is approaching resonance, it will speed up because you destroy resonance and remove the brake and get the illusion of magical speed up under load. Play with this, or also play with adding resonant caps to unloaded coils and see what happens when you approach resonance, but DO IT before talking theory.

Now, about the "real" speed up under load, or low drag effect we want. Since I've seen what I've seen on the bench I can not believe that the effect comes from the added capacitance of the bifilar coil. The matter of phase shifting and delaying the Lenz response to a point where it doesn't work against the inducing magnet, but actually help pushing it away, comes from elsewhere. To see this put ch1 of your scope to and unloaded generator coil that's in phase with another coil hooked to ch2 of the scope. Start adding loads to the second coil and depending on all the parameters you will see the phase shift between the "monitor" coil and the loaded coil.

So what are the parameters? I've tried from plain iron bolts up to fast ferrite cores. The no drag effect is way easier to obtain in plain iron, while I had to drive motors up to 10'000 RPM to see any phase shift with ferrite cores. The other parameter is the coil inductance, the higher(more wire turns), the easier it is to achieve phase shift, but at the cost of ohmic loss and less output. The other parameter being the load resistance/inductance. From what I've seen on the bench, all parameters are important, and only the experiment can teach you how they work in concert, but the core is probably the most important parameter.
With plain iron bolts I could achieve speed up at stupid low rpm compared to faster magnetic materials such as ferrite, even with low inductance coils, which means that the main component of this effect are the eddie currents inside the core itself. Huge in plain iron, low in ferrite. Another indicator of this is also the fact that if you let your setup run with an iron core in place and leave the coil unloaded, the iron core heats up very fast to very high temperatures. If you load the coil the iron gets doesn't heat up as much anymore, even at same speed. This means the load "takes off" or redirects and utilises some of the internal eddie currents which heat up the iron, this while shifting the phase response towards the inducing magnet and allowing for less drag on the prime mover. For this to happen you still need high enough inductance in your coil and the load with the right resistance.

Like Dave says, the problem with iron cores is that they heat up a lot. The solution we would conventionally apply, meaning reducing the core heating eddie currents with iron laminates or even ferrite, in this case reduces the phase shifting phenomenon. The solution probably is in the middle somewhere and only experiments can tell where in the middle... Dave seems to have found the right parameter balance.

One more thing about the parameter "load". In a conventional generator setup we seek load with a higher or equal impedance compared to the source internal impedance, to allow for maximum power transfer. In the low drag generators we actually have to create an impedance mismatch, else we won't see any phase shift.
For instance If our coil puts out 100V, we want a load with a low enough resistance/impedance to choke that 100V volts down to maybe half or even lower, it all depends on the other parameters...

have I seen OU yet? No... still working on the parameters...

I hope this contributes to clear some misconceptions. I repeat, do the experiments before you talk.

In my last too posts I asked Dave 2 pertinent questions about the generator I'm actually working on and got crickets... As soon as the naysayers chime in posts start to fly... Weird.......
I guess I'll just go back working in the background, which is what I did for the last 12 years.

cheers,
Mario

[Iamnuts]

Coward.

Aaron I’ll gladly leave your pathetic little circus.
John.

[Iamnuts]

Recent.

From recent data from Turion,he’s getting 90 Watts (lamp)from a 500 watt motor,albeit running on 12volts.
The problem he’s got is that he’s about 21 lamps short of his claim.
Lens basically says.....If this, then that. So from my point of view, to circumvent
same, all one has to do is to do away with the “if this”.
John.

[Aaron]

@bistander or iamnuts

Hi Aaron,

OK. I see a capacitor with a varying open circuit voltage of five orders of magnitude lower than its rating, 10 orders lower than rated energy. Big deal. I've done enough study on caps to know they have an equivalent circuit much like a transmission line. Charge redistribution occurs even open terminals after external charge or discharge has ceased. Not to say the voltmeter itself could play into it. And then there's the power supply or whatever under the towel supplying the transistor. I really don't know the details of the apparatus or test and don't particularly care. Maybe if it was putting out 2kW with 300W input it might be relevant. As I said before, I am not interested in arguing with you. You have your way, I have mine.

Thanks anyways for the opportunity to express my views on this board.

Regards,

bi

The bottom line is it defeats your belief system - the bottom line is that it is a self running oscillator running on capacitors that charges itself back up and the coefficient of performance moves exponentially towards infinity over time. The capacitor can be 2 volts at the same capacitance and will do the same thing - the capacitance can be a couple hundred uf and it will do the same thing.

There is no such thing as charge distribution in a capacitor as you state or as you believe - you don't even know what a capacitor is - capacitors don't have electrons piling on plates - that is not what charges a capacitor so therefore, you do not understand what a capacitor even is as I have said.



The only thing you know about capacitors is what you were told to believe about them and all you are proving is not what you know but what you don't. You have simply learned how to conform to a mindset that was handed over to you so no thinking allowed.



This explains capacitance and is simple enough that even you could understand it - you don't have the intellectual honesty to admit learning anything from it, but for the record, you aren't qualified to debate anything happening in this thread, what a capacitor is or what a capacitor does. http://ericpdollard.com/wp-content/u...ic-dollard.pdf



You and iamnuts have until the end of next week to post a link to a linkedin profile, or something else showing your background in these matters because otherwise, you're both anonymous cowards shouting nonsense from the peanut gallery with your bullhorns - if you have one iota of confidence about the cynical drivel that you're so proudly ooze all over this thread, stop hiding behind a username. Deadline is March 16. The only exception is to start your own thread and post your nonsense there. You cannot state your point of what you want to see any more than you already have and no further post from either of you will add to that. 300 watts in and 2kw out? Not one more post will add to or emphasize that any more so post a new thread or leave.

[NROC]

What I mean by 'lenz engineered out ' is the fact that it takes a finite time for lenz to show up. If you have an oscilloscope with high enough bandwidth (100MHz or more) you can see it. Because it takes a finite time to take effect you can use that to your advantage and get a lenz assist. Your not getting rid of the negative sign in the equation you are simply delaying it. It is absolutely about the phase of the currents as you said but im not sure you understand what significance that actually has in this system. Dave has said this repeatedly for years. He has basically given away all the details and specs for it and he didnt have to.

Even if he posted graphs of input vs output would you believe him? I dont think you would. So it means you will need to use the wealth of knowledge on here and build one yourself and commit to building it correctly. If you dont then your statements are pretty much null and void and would be better served on a thread where you can discuss 'theory' with others.

[bistander]

Doesn't matter to me

Your statement is actually correct. It’s NOT that there is no Lenz. There absolutely IS. It is just that it is delayed long enough that the rotor magnet is allowed to rotate far enough to reach top dead center before the opppsing field (lenz) is formed. I have said this like twenty times now and you just don’t listen.

I listen, or read what you say. What you say, or write isn't so. But believe what you want. I don't care. Just stand behind what you claim and show the 2kW out / 300W input machine in a valid test properly instrumented.

bi

[Turion]

Equation

Your statement is actually correct. It’s NOT that there is no Lenz. There absolutely IS. It is just that it is delayed long enough that the rotor magnet is allowed to rotate far enough to reach top dead center before the opppsing field (lenz) is formed. I have said this like twenty times now and you just don’t listen.

[bistander]

Lenz

I just wanted to chime in here to bistanders post about phase angle.

It is actually a fact in electrical engineering that any system that uses AC has impedance and the phases of the currents and voltages play a major role. Tesla's coils allow you to have much larger distributed capacitance than winding a normal coil. The advantage of that is that the capacitive reactance and inductive reactance of the coils cancel each other out at a specific frequency without needing to add discrete capacitors. When that situation occurs the magnetic fields of the system cancel each other out and the only losses in a system are ohmic losses. This is what Tesla means by 'no self induction' and this is electrical engineering 101, it is resonance, and the idea that this cannot happen in a motor or generator is not something impossible at all. Engineering the phase of the currents and voltages in a system is done all the time but it is just that the mainstream EE community doesn't investigate it because Lenz's Law is taken.... Well... as a law when in reality it is simply an effect that shows up and doesn't mean it cannot be overcome.

Dave is making progress on something that is a truly useful device and he has been clever enough to engineer out the lenz effect.

Hi NROC,

I see Lenz's Law like most of the scientific community, as qualitative, the minus sign in Faraday's Law. So when you engineer that minus sign out, what's left? A positive sign or zero. If zero, then there is no generated voltage in the coil so the rotating machine is simply a flywheel incapable of supplying electric power.

If Faraday's Law has a positive sign instead of negative sign, the generator becomes positive feedback system and goes unstable immeadiately destroying itself.

Turion says to call it what I want. That's difficult when I can't understand what he's talking about and misuse of the technical terminology and scientific fundamentals doesn't help. But I do know a generator isn't going to output 2kW without torque opposing rotation.

Again, I don't care what he does inside the machine. Prove the claim: 2kW out / 300W in.

Regards,

bi

[bistander]

Little oscillator

...
I also see bistander and iamnuts are incapable of acknowledging the stupid little self running - self charging oscillator, which flushes all their conventional beliefs down the drain - and it was done with capacitors to add insult to injury.

"Let's ignore the things we ask for and just keeping posting irrelevant drivel to drown out the facts." - Iamnuts & bistander

Hi Aaron,

OK. I see a capacitor with a varying open circuit voltage of five orders of magnitude lower than its rating, 10 orders lower than rated energy. Big deal. I've done enough study on caps to know they have an equivalent circuit much like a transmission line. Charge redistribution occurs even open terminals after external charge or discharge has ceased. Not to say the voltmeter itself could play into it. And then there's the power supply or whatever under the towel supplying the transistor. I really don't know the details of the apparatus or test and don't particularly care. Maybe if it was putting out 2kW with 300W input it might be relevant. As I said before, I am not interested in arguing with you. You have your way, I have mine.

Thanks anyways for the opportunity to express my views on this board.

Regards,

bi