Peter Daysh Davey Water Heater Query

[RAMSET]

Been asking Friends for Ideas

Transformer Ideas?
Mr.D you are correct the talent in these forums runs deep
A member AllCanadian shared this ruff idea


instead of spending endless hours trying to mechanically tune the cans we could spend all of $30 to buy two N channel 200v/50A and two P channel 200v/50A mosfets, a 200v/50A FWB, a 555 timer, two mosfet drivers and a few smoothing caps to build a 3Kw variable frequency AC/DC/pulsed DC supply -- add another $6 for variable output voltage. Now if a person wanted to get creative we could also use an Arduino usb microcontroller to simultaneously sweep one frequency range or multiple frequencies while monitoring a hall effect sensor which senses vibrations of the cans which are partially saturated by a permanent magnetic field. In which case we would simply program the microcontroller to automatically sweep through a massive number of frequency combinations and log the frequency(s) and the output from the hall effect sensor and possibly a temperature sensor in the serial monitor for number crunching in a spread sheet. All for less than $70 and which could also be used for many other experiments or projects as well, ain't science and technology wonderful.
I guess the first question we need to ask is what is our time worth?

Regards
AC

[boguslaw]

Transformer Ideas?
Mr.D you are correct the talent in these forums runs deep
A member AllCanadian shared this ruff idea


instead of spending endless hours trying to mechanically tune the cans we could spend all of $30 to buy two N channel 200v/50A and two P channel 200v/50A mosfets, a 200v/50A FWB, a 555 timer, two mosfet drivers and a few smoothing caps to build a 3Kw variable frequency AC/DC/pulsed DC supply -- add another $6 for variable output voltage. Now if a person wanted to get creative we could also use an Arduino usb microcontroller to simultaneously sweep one frequency range or multiple frequencies while monitoring a hall effect sensor which senses vibrations of the cans which are partially saturated by a permanent magnetic field. In which case we would simply program the microcontroller to automatically sweep through a massive number of frequency combinations and log the frequency(s) and the output from the hall effect sensor and possibly a temperature sensor in the serial monitor for number crunching in a spread sheet. All for less than $70 and which could also be used for many other experiments or projects as well, ain't science and technology wonderful.
I guess the first question we need to ask is what is our time worth?

Regards
AC

That's good idea.However I suspect that pure sinewave 50Hz is what we need and in such case add an output stage to the circuit. Could the simplest way be the inverter driven from an electrolytic cap for example series of 100uF/350V caps ? How to build such thing with isolation between 230V and electronic oscillator ? Definitely we need expert help here, I can build 555 based oscillator but only within the supported voltage range (up to 15V afaik).
I would like to see output stage made differently if possible - like in one of Zilano schematics - ferrite core with additional modulation coil to get 50Hz.
I'm not experienced in electric circuits , please can someone confirm if we could drive that from electrolytic caps , charged from AC grid power via diode bridge ? If I have a capacitor and diode bridge providing power from AC power source like power grid what is happening when capacitor is fully charged ? Is there any power taken from grid is such situation ?

[Cherryman]

I asked before but the link was not good,

what does this thing do?:

Vermogensregelaar 110-240 V~, 4000 VA - Vermogensregelaar-bouwpakketten - Conrad Electronic

PDF: http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/da...e_en_fr_nl.pdf

Is this suitable? The Price is!

[TEKTRON]

I asked before but the link was not good,

what does this thing do?:

Vermogensregelaar 110-240 V~, 4000 VA - Vermogensregelaar-bouwpakketten - Conrad Electronic

PDF: http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/da...e_en_fr_nl.pdf

Is this suitable? The Price is!

DONO.
I think it has an SSR output with an adjustable timer circuit. Just guessing.

[PhysicsProf]

I asked before but the link was not good,

what does this thing do?:

Vermogensregelaar 110-240 V~, 4000 VA - Vermogensregelaar-bouwpakketten - Conrad Electronic

PDF: http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/da...e_en_fr_nl.pdf

Is this suitable? The Price is!

Good question, C-man. I sent Conrad Electronics a request for further information about this product, will let you know what I get back from them.

I have a few of the IKEA flasks now.... preparing for build along the lines of DaemonBart, Chet and Slovenia. Has anyone else actually built a sonic boiler using an IKEA flask?

[RAMSET]

Sounds like a plan Steve !!

One of our good friends Magluvin [mags] has worked a great deal with E.L.F. transformers in Car Audio systems...They work from 20HZ up to 200HZ and can be hooked up to a PC !
I believe he said class "D" is the best for this?


I am setting up shop here and getting back into building!

Lets Do this!!
Open Source of Course !!



THX
Chet

[wrtner]

I would have thought that, for initial experimental purposes, a standard
audio Hi-Fi amplifier would be more than good enough.

Just make sure the load impedance is reasonable for it.

[boguslaw]

There is also safety issue : how to prevent any leakage of current to the piping system ? I know that pipes should be grounded but it still bother me.
I have European AC system 230V/50Hz with limit to 16A current.I'm not experienced in electrical systems and want to know every risk incidents . For example what would happen if neutral wire would be disconnected accidentally or if there would be too much steam between hot and neutral, or if hot electrode would be disconnected and so on.
Could someone experienced indicate what to do to protect device from such lethal failures ?

[wrtner]

There is also safety issue : how to prevent any leakage of current to the piping system ? I know that pipes should be grounded but it still bother me.
I have European AC system 230V/50Hz with limit to 16A current

I would suggest COMPLETE AND UTTER ISOLATION from the house system,
except, obviously, for the mains connections.

The problem is that the water will be at a voltage, and any water flow
from the system to the house may cause this voltage to flow through.

Possibly, heated water could flow into a tank. When the water flow is
stopped (or directed to a second tank), then there will be no voltage
on the water in this second tank. It will then be safe for this water to
be pumped on into the house's system.

The arrangements need to be "fail safe".

[boguslaw]

I would suggest COMPLETE AND UTTER ISOLATION from the house system,
except, obviously, for the mains connections.

The problem is that the water will be at a voltage, and any water flow
from the system to the house may cause this voltage to flow through.

Possibly, heated water could flow into a tank. When the water flow is
stopped (or directed to a second tank), then there will be no voltage
on the water in this second tank. It will then be safe for this water to
be pumped on into the house's system.

The arrangements need to be "fail safe".

I would really like to know deamonbart solution. I know I can use Residual-current device - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter but that would be tricky because I expect anyway some leakage of current to ground :-(

Most of heating system is made using copper pipes, my container is made from stainless steel but that's anyway a situation when two current flowing electrodes would be in water and even using plastic container it helps only a little bit. Actually this is essence because IMHO this invention is usable only in closed loop water circulating device.

Here is the solution abs el 26.1mb.AVI''ABS GADGET''ELECTRIC SHOWER HEATER. - YouTube

[Slovenia]

Message from Mr. "C"

Translation by Prop S

Dear friends and sonic boiler replicators.

You cannot publicly sell sonic boilers and make money out of it.
You will get arrested by police under charges of device not being patented and safe for use.
Sonic boiler didnt pass any safety checks and it is a type of device not recognized throughout the world, since it draws its energy from quantum field of vacuum ETRA which according to Einstein theory, officially does not exist.
According to "them", its a criminal act.
Any one of you can make sonic boiler for them selves or as a gift to relatives if they mastered the production process which is not easy.
I gave this to the world so anyone can make it for them selves and for that I bare no consequences.
At the time I patent the quantum heater COP =32 (should Einstein`s mafia allow me to) I will be able to sell it and everyone who wants to make it and knows how to, can make one for them selves.
For USA patent organization, sonic boiler and entire Tesla`s resonance technology are Perpetuum mobile and forbiden for production and sales and never to be recognized or put in production as long as there is oil, gas and nuclear power plants and MONEY.
Nuclear lobby struggles so people spend a lot of electricity and to pay high price for it, not cheap.
Energy is free and there is plenty of it in vacuum you just need to catch it with resonance. That my teacher Nikola Tesla

Translation is word by word so I know there are some sentences that you cannot understand but that is not my fault, savic expressions are to blame since some of his thoughts are incomplete but I translated them in such manner without adding anything on my own.

[RAMSET]

Very nice

Slovenia
The intent is quite clear ,The professor speaks the truth!
Thank you professor Savic ,I hope your gift to us helps to make this world a much better place!
I absolutely, positively believe it will ,Very shortly !!

Thank you
Chet
PS
How is your Son Branislav doing?

[PhysicsProf]

Sobering words from Prof. Savic, and a reminder to all of us.

Sonic boiler didnt pass any safety checks and it is a type of device not recognized throughout the world, since it draws its energy from quantum field of vacuum ETRA which according to Einstein theory, officially does not exist.
According to "them", its a criminal act.
Any one of you can make sonic boiler for them selves or as a gift to relatives if they mastered the production process which is not easy.
I gave this to the world so anyone can make it for them selves and for that I bare no consequences.

Again, I wish to thank the good Professor for giving this "to the world so anyone can make it for themselves". It is a wonderful gift.

PS -- my offer to do "safety checks", testing for possible emissions (gammas, X-rays, u-wave, ultrasound, etc) still stands.
While I do not suppose that there are dangerous emissions (and shielding is an option if there are), still it might be expected that "they" would use the safety / endangerment argument against any such innovation. We have discussed ways to get the device out to benefit humanity, and this goal should be kept in mind. It is much more important than making huge amounts of money!!

[PhysicsProf]

I asked before but the link was not good,

what does this thing do?:

Vermogensregelaar 110-240 V~, 4000 VA - Vermogensregelaar-bouwpakketten - Conrad Electronic

PDF: http://www.produktinfo.conrad.com/da...e_en_fr_nl.pdf

Is this suitable? The Price is!

I emailed this company, Conrad Electronic, and received a response --
the output frequency is fixed, at 50 Hz -- and delivery in the US is "not possible." Here's the email:

Dear Dr. Jones,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Please be advised; delivery in the US is not possible. Also will this item not be regulated in frequency (it will remain 50 Hz) but only in voltage in combination with current.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Hendri Lijster

Customer Contact Center
Conrad Electronic Benelux B.V.

[PhysicsProf]

I have purchased a

"NORPRO 559 Immersion Heater for Warming Liquids"
$6.82
In Stock

See attached photo.

Very useful for comparisons with Davey-type heaters and very inexpensive! (It even ships to me for free using Amazon Prime.)

Other models are available for use with 220V and with 12V DC.

My idea is to use the heater as a control, to check the instruments and measurement methods.
For example, I will use a wattage meter to measure the input power and thermometers to measure the rise in temperature in the water to measure Q -- for both the control (using the immersion heater pictured) AND with the Davey-type device.

Note that the heat of vaporization due to steam production can also be determined if one is careful to "waft away" the produced steam with a small fan.

Heat of Vaporization-the amount of heat required to convert unit mass of a liquid into the vapor without a change in temperature.

For water at its normal boiling point of 100 ºC, the heat of vaporization is 2260 J g-1. This means that to convert 1 g of water at 100 ºC to 1 g of steam at 100 ºC,

2260 J of heat must be absorbed by the water.
Hv = mass in grams lost due to vaporization * 2260 J g-1.

One measures the mass of the water before and after the "run" for a given W-h input, say 50 W-h; this gives the mass of the water lost due to vaporization IF one is careful not to allow water droplets to escape the vessel, just steam.

By inserting the immersion heater into the SAME container as the Davey heater, and inserting the SAME watts of power into each heater (one at a time), one can immediately compare the rise in temperature of the water (along with the mass lost due to vaporization) BETWEEN the TWO heaters, and straightforwardly determine which is more efficient. OU should be quickly demonstrable, if indeed the Davey heater is OU.

The heat lost due to electrolysis with the Davey heater should be small I think and will tend to LOWER the calculated efficiency (making the calculation conservative); and recombination of H and O will simply add this energy lost back into the system.

Note that the immersion heater should have a nominal efficiency of one (in a well-insulated water container).

I like easy-to-see tests of concept like this!