How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

[petersone]

I don't know about your country,but here in UK using untaxed fuel on the road is mega trouble,if you are found out,even if you make it your self,using it for heating or in the lawn mower is not so bad,but still trouble,this country is tax mad,we lost America because of tax,they haven't learnt anything,even after 200 years,they take 50% of you when you are alive,and the other 50% when you die.It's no better than the USSR.
peter

[brenie]

Hi Jetijs
I like the numbers,less than a $ per L,here in UK diesel is about £1.25 per L.
But,if the diesel is used in a car,the tax still has to be payed,as most of the £1.25 is tax there is not a lot to gain,if it is used as heating oil,the tax is still payable,but at a lower rate,the buggers have got us always!!
peter

Hi Pete, just sent you a private message, check your box. Is'nt it great having people like Jetijs' around ready to share their time and work with us.

Regards Bren.

[petersone]

Hi Bren
Thanks for that,they have let up a bit,I use about double the 2500 L so not much help me,but 3 cheers for Jetijs,good on him!!!
peter

[brenie]

The costs that I mentioned include the consumed electric energy. For example, I can get shredded plastic from recycling plants for about 50$ a ton, that means about 5 cents per kilogram. Our device converts around 25 kg of plastic into 24 litrers of diesel in 4 hours, consuming around 3kw average power all the time, this means about 12kWh of power is used to get 24 liters of diesel. Our energy costs for a kilowathour is about 8 cents, that means that for 24 lieters of produced diesel we have used up 96 cents worth of electricity and 1,25$ worth of plastic. That is 2,21$ for 24 liters of diesel or 9.2 cents per liter. Do you know how much diesel costs now in our country? It costs around 1.35$ per liter. If you can make your own for only 9.2 cents a liter, then you are almost independant of oil companies, you are making your own energy and save a huge amount of money

Hi Jetijs, It costs around 1.35$ per liter. You don't say ? Well here in uk that ==$1.95. Love your info: it sure has me glued too the comp.

Regards, Bren.

[Jetijs]

LOL Bren
The price difference for diesel in UK and Latvia is about 31%. But the thing is that the average wages here is 3-4 times smaller than those in UK. Makes you think Will have to do something about that

[Jetijs]

Ordered the controller and relays yesterday. Will build a 20 liter one first with 240V and about 2kw. We have a plastic recycling place in town I need to see if I can get shredded polypropylene from them. Thanks Jetijs for the information.

Mike Klimesh

Great to hear Mike, let me know how it turns out and if you need any additional info

[bugler]

Regarding the heating of the diesel to get rid of the 5-10% of gasoline is a total waste.

Wouldn't it be a way to separate them so the gasoline can be used?
Besides heating costs money so the diesel would be more expensive at the end.

Jetijs have you used the diesel in a car?

[bugler]

Could you show us somehow how you make the lower and upper lid and how you cut the tank in order to weld the lower lid.

Thanks.

[everwiser]

Jetijs,

You mention the use of PE and PP plastics. Can you mix them or should they be converted separately? Also, when looking into purchasing plastic scraps I found they differentiate between HDPE (bottles/containers) and LDPE (films/bags). Is there any problem mixing these two varieties of PE when cooking down a batch?

On a personal note, you did an awesome job of refining your tire cooker into the current version. It looks to be very well done. The only thing I might do differently would be to add a cooling coil similar to those used in alcohol stills that moonshiners use to better cool the vapors before they can reach the bubbler. Great job and thank you for sharing it.

[avro539]

Powering a 10-KVA diesel generator at home

Hi..You are quoting cost of electricity ... KWH..... to run at "X" amount per liter...here in Australia I pay 19c a KWH and it goes up 16% from today 1/1/2011 ...My aim will be to run a 10 KVA diesel generator...to convert plastic to fuel and have enough power to run household power requirements....We have be forced to accept smart meters in the near future...and the power supply company's will change the tariff when it suits them and can charge up to 38c a KWH at what they call their peak periods...I want to be set setup so I can isolate from the mains when these periods are in force...These peak periods would be at least 4 hrs ..The generator would be producing power to convert plastic and run the household at the same time....even it cost's 40c a liter its 1/4 of the diesel price here...and is still a viable proposition...the converted diesel would be making replacement fuel and I would be powering the household free...hope this makes sense.......Avro

[kcarring]

This is starting to really remind me of that news broadcast of the company that is doing something very similar, on a larger scale. I think they are using superheated water (under pressure) as a solvent. I think they are combusting their end product with HHO to clean up the emissions, for their heat source. Funny, I remember one of my construction foremen saying when he tossed a plastic milk jug in the garbage (we can't even recycle them here, still!) "One day we'll be digging these back up for fuel. This is a battery. A storage of energy. Just sitting underground, waiting for re-use." On a tangent, it may be possible to use a fresnel lense to focus photon energy on a stainless steel capsule that would melt salt to about 595 degrees farenheit, which would flow by gravity into a radiator coil at the base of the reactor. As the molten salt returned to solid it would then be raised by a corkscrew style turnstile to physically lift it back to the height of the capsule where it would tumble in to repeat the cycle. As this entire process is heat laden, and heat "losing"... it could all be contained in a solar room, that during winter (itself) collected heat. As the process is perpetually losing heat to it's environment, the heat of the reactor, the capsule, and even a genset (if a diesel genset was then creating electricty) - all this heat should be recycled with a Mistubishi (or the like) variable speed compressor heat pump, to be sent into the home for heat. A large underground heat "sink" could also be established into the equation. All tangents, but food for thought.

[redrichie]

I have been thinking about this topic since it was posted. The more I think about it the more it pisses me off. Like so man other topics that show real potential. Here is a technology that shows, yet again, that there are ways to do things to really help. But the GOVERNMENTS wont allow it. WTF!!??

In the states if a semi is found using the "off-road diesel" fuel they will be fined. Harshly. really? because the gov didnt get their piece. This like other valid technologies techs should be fully utilized. If our govs were really concerned with global warming and a green movement they would be giving grants to some of these people. Not fining those that use them. Why dont every state building in America have Solar cells on their roofs? At least a few doing something. Especially if the Govs are really that interested in global warming. They should actually be doing something!! not penalizing the intelligent and industrious.
I had a discussion with a friend. If tomorrow i invented a device that sat on my kitchen table and ran perpetually and produced copious amounts of energy and powered my house. I dont think the masses would even raise an eyebrow. The sheeple have been brain washed into thinking it takes large corporation to make energy. The same large corps that are constantly villanized. The gov would try to discredit you or shut you down if you succeeded in doing any of it. Why? Because they cant tax it. They cant get their grubby greedy fingers in it and tie it up in beurocratic BS and red tape.
I am sick of them (the very few) telling us (the very many) what we can and cant do. Most of the world is a "free" place to live. I can understand some safety concerns. But really if Jetjis wishes to make his own energy and blows himself up (not that you will Jet) then that is his problem. It is his CHOICE.
Keep up the good work. EVERYONE. Show them that we are the ones that make the world go round. We need and deserve these techs. Not to be taxed to death for using them. Happy new year. Sorry to take this thread away from it focus. This is a great technology that Jet and his friend have devised. Congrats

[Jetijs]

Regarding the heating of the diesel to get rid of the 5-10% of gasoline is a total waste.

Wouldn't it be a way to separate them so the gasoline can be used?
Besides heating costs money so the diesel would be more expensive at the end.

Jetijs have you used the diesel in a car?

Bugler, after you already have the first batch of fuel, the separation process by refraction is not that costly at all, it goes much faster than making the fuel in the first place, and you don't waste the gasoline, you just separate it thermaly as it turns into vapor at lower temperatures than diesel. This is only the basic model I am introducing you with, much more sufisticated models can be build with the posibility to separate gasoline from diesel directly in the pyrolysis process, that means no additional costs. You just need to have two condensing chambers heated to needed temperatures, one will be held at temperatures where diesel turns to liquid and other will be at lower temperatures where gasoline turns to liquid.

Could you show us somehow how you make the lower and upper lid and how you cut the tank in order to weld the lower lid.

Thanks.

You can use that cad drawing and make parts transparent and see each part closely. It really does not matter how the lip is attached to the chamber, as long as it is hermetic. You just go to a local metalworks shop and tell them what you want and they will know how to manage that. I ordered the lip from a metalshop, they used lathe to machine it, then I used a grinder and cut off the upper part of the propane tank so that the lip sits on it nicely and welded it on. Also the lid was machined in that machine shop using lathe. Lathe is the only way to make those conical grooves in the lip and lid for best seal.

Jetijs,

You mention the use of PE and PP plastics. Can you mix them or should they be converted separately? Also, when looking into purchasing plastic scraps I found they differentiate between HDPE (bottles/containers) and LDPE (films/bags). Is there any problem mixing these two varieties of PE when cooking down a batch?

On a personal note, you did an awesome job of refining your tire cooker into the current version. It looks to be very well done. The only thing I might do differently would be to add a cooling coil similar to those used in alcohol stills that moonshiners use to better cool the vapors before they can reach the bubbler. Great job and thank you for sharing it.

HDPE and LDPE are basically polyethylene, not much difference between them in pyrolysis process, both work fine and can be mixed between each other and polypropylene. It is just that PE tends to create fuel that solidifies into kinda parafin liek substance when cooled doen to about 20 degrees celsius. It still works fine as a fuel if heated up a bit. Might be that if the temperatures are right, there won't be any problems with parafin.

Hi..You are quoting cost of electricity ... KWH..... to run at "X" amount per liter...here in Australia I pay 19c a KWH and it goes up 16% from today 1/1/2011 ...My aim will be to run a 10 KVA diesel generator...to convert plastic to fuel and have enough power to run household power requirements....We have be forced to accept smart meters in the near future...and the power supply company's will change the tariff when it suits them and can charge up to 38c a KWH at what they call their peak periods...I want to be set setup so I can isolate from the mains when these periods are in force...These peak periods would be at least 4 hrs ..The generator would be producing power to convert plastic and run the household at the same time....even it cost's 40c a liter its 1/4 of the diesel price here...and is still a viable proposition...the converted diesel would be making replacement fuel and I would be powering the household free...hope this makes sense.......Avro

That is why our next machine will be heated using a diesel burner, there will be no need for electricity anymore

[bugler]

Jetijs thanks again for your information sharing. I know I am asking like there is no tomorrow.

Could you elaborate on how you would make the condensers so you have diesel and gasoline separated when they are being created?

Let's say that you want to cancel electricity and gas in your home. How would you use the diesel to have electricity, warm your house and your water?

Could the vegetable oil pump burner be also used to burn HHO (I am thinking in having a HHO machine some day).

Thanks. You are very generous helping those like me without experience at all.

[everwiser]

I thought of one more question, Jetijs. How difficult is it to clean out the leftover charcoal/byproducts? Do they have a tendency to stick to your container or does it come out fairly easily? I'm just wondering if there needs to be some kind of interior coating or alternate way to break the char away from the cylinder walls. Thank you for any information.