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How to turn plastic waste into diesel fuel cheaply

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  • #31
    Hi bugler

    The dimensions of the reactor container does not really matter, it is like boiling water, if sufficient heat is applied to the container, it will boil the water no matter how tall or wide the container is. I would suggest using something like a propane tank, like this:


    The metal cage is not where the plastic goes, it just prevents the reactor tank touching the bricks and coils. The plastic goes in the modified propane tank and this tank then is fitted inside the cage. The cage is a bit smaller in siameter than the brick cylinder so that there is about 1-2cm of space between the cage and the bricks. In my case the internal diameter of the brick ring is around 34cm, but that will vary depending on the reactor container size. I would suggest first to get a 20-25 liter container, something with thicker walls would be preferable. then you measure its diameter and make a cage inside which the container fits nicely and firmly and then you measure the outer diameter of the cage, add several centimeters for the gap between cage and bricks and you will have the needed diameter for the brick ring. Then you just see what size bricks you have available at your local kiln shop and calcilate how much you will need for a ring and at what angle the sides need to be cut for a ring shape when assembled. At the moment I can't tahe more detailed pictures because the reactor is at my friends house and he lives several hunderd kilemeters from me.
    I can't show you the insides of the condensing containers as they are welded shut and only have an inlet pipe and an outlet pipe, but there is nothing fancy in them, just a metal reservoir that cools the vapors coming out of the reactor, thats all. I will draw a better schematic later.
    The shredded plastic looks like this:
    http://www.emuprim.lv/jetijs/plog-co...lastic-002.jpg
    but might also be more white or gray in color. The main thing is that the plastic should be polyethylene or polypropylene and NOT polyvinylchlordide (PVC).
    I can't post more pictures of the lid, but I will make a 3d cad drawings tomorrow.
    Hope this helps, will post more later
    It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

    Comment


    • #32
      Thank you very much.
      I am beginning to get the picture.

      I will wait for your post and then, sorry for that, I will continue the interrogation.

      My biggest doubt now is the reactor chamber (which until now I didn't know even existed).
      I would need a good drawing of that and explanations on how to do it.

      Also about the hole made to accommodate the thermocouple and the coils.

      Thanks.

      Comment


      • #33
        Hi! You mention a cost of 8$ per batch, but that depends on your local
        energy cost. How many kwh does this represent?

        Comment


        • #34
          The costs that I mentioned include the consumed electric energy. For example, I can get shredded plastic from recycling plants for about 50$ a ton, that means about 5 cents per kilogram. Our device converts around 25 kg of plastic into 24 litrers of diesel in 4 hours, consuming around 3kw average power all the time, this means about 12kWh of power is used to get 24 liters of diesel. Our energy costs for a kilowathour is about 8 cents, that means that for 24 lieters of produced diesel we have used up 96 cents worth of electricity and 1,25$ worth of plastic. That is 2,21$ for 24 liters of diesel or 9.2 cents per liter. Do you know how much diesel costs now in our country? It costs around 1.35$ per liter. If you can make your own for only 9.2 cents a liter, then you are almost independant of oil companies, you are making your own energy and save a huge amount of money
          It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

          Comment


          • #35
            Hi all.
            I made a 3d cad drawing of the reactor, lid, cage, brick ring and outer barrel assembly. You will need edrawings software to view the file, you can download it for free here:
            eDrawings - 3D and 2D CAD Viewer and Publisher

            After that you can view the assembly in 3d and make parts transparent to see what is behind them. Hope this will help to understand the design better. The hollow part between the brick rings and outer barren should be stuffed with glassfirber insulation. Here is the drawing file:

            pyrolysis reactor assembly.EASM

            Last edited by Jetijs; 12-30-2010, 03:58 PM.
            It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

            Comment


            • #36
              Ordered the controller and relays yesterday. Will build a 20 liter one first with 240V and about 2kw. We have a plastic recycling place in town I need to see if I can get shredded polypropylene from them. Thanks Jetijs for the information.

              Mike Klimesh
              Live to experiment, Experiment to live (+_+)

              Comment


              • #37
                What kind of modifications to your design would be nescessary in order to make it burn the fuel it makes, for the heating process?

                What kind of burner would you use for the fuel?

                I am very interested in examining making it a self sustained reactor before building the electrical heating coils. I think it would be more easily up-scaled as a burner, not an electrical heater -- but I will need to discuss this more with friends first.

                The most expensive part in the setup also seems to be the bricks. I am thinking making a small setup to make a proof-of-concept system, and then upscale it to whatever production ammount I need.
                Where might I be able to find these bricks locally?
                (I mean this as, what kind of shop might carry them? I can price check locally before trying online wholesales. )

                Where I go to school, many people are interested in greener alternatives & recycling what we have already used. This kind of setup fits the bill perfectly for a project, and I am under the impression I can get quite a bit of support from this community -- even selling fuel locally to fund other energy research projects.

                I'm sure other members of my area would also be very supportive of saving money on car fuel -- especially because it is a student-intated project.

                Is there anyone in this thread who I might be able to contact to find out/troubleshoot legal implications of this kind of venture? I want to build it for myself first, and then potentially branch out into a business in the long-term.
                I seem to have a hunch that I might need some kind of selling-license, or something of this nature -- but frankly, I don't have the foggiest idea about US legalities. If nothing else -- Could anyone point me towards the right kind of person, or professional who might know?


                Side note, I am also thinking that the heating mechanism can be converted into a kiln for some transmutation experiments. I think this may only be applicable for an electrical heater. After seeing Bedini talk about transmutation on the EFTV #18 (See here), I am in need of a kiln. Does anyone know if the bricks are also use-able for a kiln?

                I understand I am asking a lot that I don't know about. I would like to extend my gratitude to anyone who shares their time in answering.

                Thanks again for sharing Jetijs.

                ==Romo

                Comment


                • #38
                  science fair project

                  Originally posted by Jetijs View Post
                  Hi all.
                  I made a 3d cad drawing of the reactor, lid, cage, brick ring and outer barrel assembly. You will need edrawings software to view the file, you can download it for free here:
                  eDrawings - 3D and 2D CAD Viewer and Publisher

                  After that you can view the assembly in 3d and make parts transparent to see what is behind them. Hope this will help to understand the design better. The hollow part between the brick rings and outer barren should be stuffed with glassfirber insulation. Here is the drawing file:

                  pyrolysis reactor assembly.EASM

                  Ok, I've always preached to my son not to get distracted from the task at hand. now I strayed from the Farris Wheel thread and you have managed to completely distract me!
                  This is the simplest method we can find on this subject - AWESOME!
                  and thank you for sharing so freely.

                  My son is at the beginning of a Science fair project for his school. do you think this could be replicated on a small level using a pressure cooker modified w/ a steel/iron pipe into a class jar on an electric stove top?
                  is the bubbler at the end being used to capture excess fumes, or can it be eliminated?
                  we're getting ready to try it and are hoping for any tips/insight you might be willing to hand out for our mini experiment.
                  Thanks,
                  P'n'S

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Hi Romo.
                    For the heating using the produced fuel I was thinking of using a waste oil burner as I already have tested the fuel from old rubber on such a burner and it works great. I mean something like this:
                    Clave waste vegetable oil pump burner furnace boiler - eBay (item 150532858576 end time Jan-10-11 12:37:21 PST)

                    This guy has a video on his ebay listing. I am not sure yet how I would control the temperature, but it shouldn't be too hard. Is such a system is used the good thing is that you can use ordinary fire bricks for insulation instead of the aluminum oxide ones which cost about 3.50$ a piece. They are good for electric heater because it is very easy to cut slots in them for the coils, but if an oil burner is used, there is no need for slots.
                    The aluminum oxide bricks should be available in any kiln supply company, if not, there are some online shops that sell them. These aluminum oxide bricks can handle temperatures up to 2000 degree celsius, and they are widely used for ceramic glazing kilns and glass melting kilns
                    It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Jetijs View Post
                      I have downloaded the eviewer and I will try to make layers transparent (no success so far with that).

                      So you take one of these tanks, then cut the upper part, then weld the lower part of the lid, make the groove the upper part of the lid with its groove and that is it?

                      Thanks for your help.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Hi Jetijs
                        I like the numbers,less than a $ per L,here in UK diesel is about 1.25 per L.
                        But,if the diesel is used in a car,the tax still has to be payed,as most of the 1.25 is tax there is not a lot to gain,if it is used as heating oil,the tax is still payable,but at a lower rate,the buggers have got us always!!
                        peter

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Hi minoly

                          Have a look at this page:
                          Directory: Blest Machine recycles plastic back into oil - PESWiki
                          It is about Japanese commercial devices. But those cost so much that almost no one considers using this tech at home. Japanese put all kind of LCD's, sophisticated power management systems and monitoring devices in their units that really does nothing except increase the price. This is easy, cheap and almost anyone can build one without taking out a second mortgage on his house The way we do this is not the only way nor the best, after you know the process, there is lots and lots of room for improvements.

                          You could build a small table top device for around 300-500$ maybe even less. But I wouldn't use a pressure cooker as they have a heat resistant rubber seal around the lid, it is good for food cooking temperatures, but wont hold 400 degrees celsius, it will melt and leak. Also you need a custom heating element, because ordinary heating coils that are used in water boilers, tea pots or electric stoves wont last long, because of their thin resistance wire. You need nichrome or kanthal resistance wire with diameter around 1.5mm, this will do well. The seal between the reactor and the lid is very important, it must be hermetic and heat resistant, we have tried many ways before and no seal material lasted long, all eventually fail and let the hot plastic vapor seep out, this is not acceptable. We tried heat resistant silicon for use on chimneys and other commercial stuff, not good enough. Eventually we found that the thing that works best is conical groove and a wedge that fits inside that groove around the lid, like you can see in the CAD drawing. When the lid is bolted to the reactor chamber, the fit is airtight and hermetical. The pressures in the system are very low, only such to be sufficient to bubble through the bubbler, this makes it very much safer than commercial flash pyrolysis devices that are also very expensive and affordable only by large companies.

                          In our case the bubbler at the end is just as a flashback arrester that prevents fire going into the reactor, but the gas really burns so slow, that it is not really needed, but better to leave it in, safety is never too much. Also the bubbler can be used to eliminate the need of condensing tanks, because the vapors cool sufficiently when bubbling through the water to turn into liquid fuel, that can the be poured off as it does not dissolve in water but floats above it. The produced gas should be burned or vented outside.
                          It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Hi Peter.
                            No one has to know what I do in my back yard and how I power my lawnmower, garden tractor or heating stove. I make my own energy, why should I pay tax for it if I am not selling it? They can all go *&^&%^#. Also as far as I know in Europe the diesel that is used for heating is color marked by a special chemical and they can only fine you if they find out that you are driving with it, but only if they see the colored fuel in your gas tank. If you make your own fuel, there wont be any color chemical in it

                            Originally posted by petersone View Post
                            Hi Jetijs
                            I like the numbers,less than a $ per L,here in UK diesel is about 1.25 per L.
                            But,if the diesel is used in a car,the tax still has to be payed,as most of the 1.25 is tax there is not a lot to gain,if it is used as heating oil,the tax is still payable,but at a lower rate,the buggers have got us always!!
                            peter
                            It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Hi Jetijs
                              I'm with you on all of that,just for the record,red diesel is used in farm machinery,heating oil,which I use,is not coloured,but nearly a 1 per L,if you are found to be using untaxed fuel in anything the penalties are breath taking!!!
                              peter

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I did not know that. But that won't stop me. I think it only needs a precedent of someone being fined and bring that case to court, I doubt it is constitutional to be fined because you use fuel you made yourself. Another story if that fuel is contraband or illegally obtained, but they still have to prove that. Many people make bio diesel from raps seed or other oils, what about them? Are they also forbidden to use that?
                                It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

                                Comment

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