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  • Originally posted by dutchdivco View Post
    Wtner, I too question his motive.Thanks Tutanka, for answering the question about how to relatively easily resolve this 'problem' of dioxin.I got to say, this had me 'scared off' for awhile.I didn't look at your schematic, but the question of eliminating the oxygen, so you can have an aerobic melting, was answered earlier in the thread; if you have a bubbler at some point near the end of the process, than as you haet things up, the O2 will be pushed out early on, and you will have an aerobic process. It isn't neccesary to pump all the air out, before heating.Jim
    Yes.. air is out without vacuum pump using the bubbler

    Comment


    • Originally posted by knightchess12029 View Post
      I Want to ask u about the picture u attached at your last post...the set up experiment for school project...can we just burn the plastic in test tube to 400 - 500 degrees Celcius with Bunsen burner...?? and just set up the lab equipment based on the picture you attached??...or we can just put the plastic inside round bottom neck and put it in heating mantle and put the condenser to cool down the gas produced...is there any effect of high temperature to the test tube glass or round bottom neck??....

      i hope u will explain to me and do reply me...your help is mostly needed..thank you for your concern and reply to my post recently...
      Yes you can, if you have the lab glassware equipment with the ground flanges, just adjust the flame until the plastic is melted and bubbling away then lower it to maintain the bubbling. You could use any shape of glass flask but remember you will have to clean the carbon out later so a test tube may be better. Another thing to remember is that the rubber bungs in the flasks will not stand the heat and begin to break down. Cork will pyrolise too. The image I used was not a good example as they used bungs that would not stand up to the job.

      In truth Metal equipment would be much better and probably easier but soldered joints are not a good idea, either weld or braze. To seal the top of the reactor, you could use a copper or aluminium ring if the mating faces are not sealing well.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by wrtner View Post
        Yes, that was my point. I now question his motive.
        I think the dioxin question is valid to some degree so a scrubber of some kind may be of use for that.

        Is it ok if I am facetious?

        A bigger problem would be PTFE, if we pirolise that we have a real problem with fluorine compounds. Oh thatís right we could do the same as the government, just dump it in the drinking water and call it fluoride.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by dutchdivco View Post
          Wtner, I too question his motive.
          It is interesting that this post is his one and only offering
          on this site.

          My understanding is that Dioxin is a highly toxic biproduct of
          the manufacture of herbicides.

          Paul-R

          Comment


          • Correction on the drawings

            I made a correction to the drawing "Pyro" that I belive is OK and can be used in all kind of reactors...

            http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1299514746

            Please study my image and tell me if its OK for sure...

            And I'd like to have some more informations about catalyst...

            In post above TUTANKA said "As catalist you can use powder of sodium" and "Please don't use sodium with water.. very dangerous"

            I didnt get it ... isn't it the same thing!!!

            Explain it bether... how to use it...

            Others catalysts... methods...

            I saw a video where the "inventor" turns plastic into fuel and he claims to use a catalyst, a white powder, that makes
            it happens faster and ease... but as a secret, he dont say the name of the white powder...

            Do someone have any knowledge of what that "white powder" could be...

            So, I beleive that "catalyst" is the second topic we should discuss about here...

            Lets talkabout catalist...

            Thankyou all!!!
            Attached Files
            Last edited by seashore; 03-09-2011, 03:53 AM.

            Comment


            • Catalyst

              Maybe its a benign powder, has no catalyst properties what so ever, and he's just doing what we're talking about here? I too would like to know more about a catalyst. I have some palladium leaf, (like gold leaf, used for art work, picture frames, etc.) It is 99% pure.I bought it to use as a catalyst, for plating the top of pistons.It causes catalyctic cracking of hydrocarbons, at temps over 1000 degrees F. Is this what we're talking about when we say catalyst.My understanding of chemistry is very basic. A catalyst is something that is not consumed in a chemical reaction, but if present triggers or contributes to a chemical reaction, right? Are we talking about something in the heating chamber that would speed up or facilitate the 'cracking' of the hydrocarbons in the plastic?And would it be the same kind of materials used in oil refineries? I believe I have heard that copper, silver, gold, etc. can be used, but I don't know how that would relate.Also have read on biodiesel forums that some materials can accelerate the polymerising, which you want to avoid; basically, gasoline turning to varnish.Jim

              Comment


              • New Drawings Of The Reactor

                I made a new Draw of the reactor as I understand how the process should be...
                Please take a look at it and comment about it...

                http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1299522343
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • Seashore. I attached a pic on how it should be.

                  The incoming tubes should not be immersed in the condensed liquid, this will only create unwanted pressure. The incoming and the outgoing tubes should be at equal length and way above the liquid. The incoming tube should be immersed in water only at the last step - the bubbler.
                  Attached Files
                  It's better to wear off by working than to rust by doing nothing.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seashore View Post
                    I made a correction to the drawing "Pyro" that I belive is OK and can be used in all kind of reactors...

                    http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1299514746

                    Please study my image and tell me if its OK for sure...

                    And I'd like to have some more informations about catalyst...

                    In post above TUTANKA said "As catalist you can use powder of sodium" and "Please don't use sodium with water.. very dangerous"

                    I didnt mean it ... isant it the same thing!!!

                    Explain it bether... how to use it...

                    Others catalysts... methods...

                    I saw a video where the "inventor" turns plastic into fuel and he claims to use a catalyst, a white powder, that makes
                    it happens faster and ease... but as a secret, he dont say the name of the white powder...

                    Do someone have any knowledge of what that "white powder" could be...

                    So, I beleive that "catalyst" is the second topic we should discuss about here...

                    Lets talkabout catalist...

                    Tankyou all!!!

                    Yes that is correct, didnít spot the mistake when I posted it.

                    The idea of bubbling is to force condensation of the fuels, it also will help take out the carbon from the gas if you donít have a cyclone filter.

                    Details of a cyclone filter below, this one is for 16L/min but it is scaleable. Filtration is 50% efficient at 2.5 micron and goes up exponentially from there, so I understand.

                    I donít know anything about catalysts or scrubbing chemicals so I would appreciate any help there.
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jetijs View Post
                      Seashore. I attached a pic on how it should be.

                      The incoming tubes should not be immersed in the condensed liquid, this will only create unwanted pressure. The incoming and the outgoing tubes should be at equal length and way above the liquid. The incoming tube should be immersed in water only at the last step - the bubbler.
                      Bubblers will increase pressure.

                      The device I have seen, back in the 90s, had down pipes in the condensation chambers, I assumed they were bubblers. The device was built by a recycling company owner and at the time I didnít know what it was exactly. I assumed it was for recycling engine oil because he collected that too. Having said that it was near the plastic shredders and the oil tanks.

                      His reactor was about 1.5m in diameter and 2m high with oil burners below and a large tube surrounding it, sort of like a chimney. There was a large hatch in the top with a chute above. There were five vessels in line, the first three being insulated. The first being a cyclone like device with a pipe feeding back to the reactor from its lower chamber. I donít know what the second vessel was but it had no drain as far as I could see, only an inspection hatch on the side. The next three vessels were also similar to a cyclone, being conical at the bottom, but as well as having pipes returning to the reactor, had drain cocks going to 205 litre drums.

                      It was obviously undergoing maintenance but when I asked about it he just laughed and said ďdonít worry about that, you have never seen itĒ. Of course after that I never forgot it but didnít really know what it was until I saw your post.

                      Comment


                      • To Jetijs's

                        I saw the video YouTube - Easy way to make your own diesel from plastic waste
                        from YOUTUBE user "Meskalitto" that I belive are you or your partner...

                        If its right, Do you have any other videos of the reactor to show...

                        I saw it 100 times and Im curious about what kind of "fuel" came out the others cylinders...

                        The water in the bubler retain some kind of oils too...

                        What do you do with the water when you finish the process, discard or keep to refine the oils in it...

                        How do you "clean" and use the oils you process...

                        You said:
                        "The incoming tubes should not be immersed in the condensed liquid, this will only create unwanted pressure. The incoming and the outgoing tubes should be at equal length and way above the liquid. The incoming tube should be immersed in water only at the last step - the bubbler"
                        Sniffing around google, I learned that is important that the tube to be imersed in the liquid, because it cleans the gas, maintain the pressure and temperature of the process at all, what cracks better the oils to next stages, producing light oils...

                        Some process using catalyst as "calcium carbonate CaCO3" mixed in the water of the first "stage/boiler" after the reactor, used the same way of a bubler, makes the producion of better oils and less parafin...

                        or as the oil cames from reactor, pass through the hot carbonated water, cracks the oil to make light oils and gas, where some heavy oils as "diesel" are condensed, and the light oils and gases goes to the second stage/boiler, and so on...

                        The design I made, I used some colors as the oils/gas are produced...

                        http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...y-pyro-new.jpg

                        So, you have the reactor working, and able to make a test to the process I described here, and post the results...

                        And please, make a film or photos to post too.

                        Thanks.
                        Last edited by seashore; 03-08-2011, 02:35 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seashore View Post
                          I made a correction to the drawing "Pyro" that I belive is OK and can be used in all kind of reactors...

                          http://www.energeticforum.com/attach...1&d=1299514746

                          Please study my image and tell me if its OK for sure...

                          And I'd like to have some more informations about catalyst...

                          In post above TUTANKA said "As catalist you can use powder of sodium" and "Please don't use sodium with water.. very dangerous"

                          I didnt mean it ... isant it the same thing!!!

                          Explain it bether... how to use it...

                          Others catalysts... methods...

                          I saw a video where the "inventor" turns plastic into fuel and he claims to use a catalyst, a white powder, that makes
                          it happens faster and ease... but as a secret, he dont say the name of the white powder...

                          Do someone have any knowledge of what that "white powder" could be...

                          So, I beleive that "catalyst" is the second topic we should discuss about here...

                          Lets talkabout catalist...

                          Tankyou all!!!
                          Probably you refer to that .. name is zeolite

                          As catalyst is used bauxite (97%) an aluminuim (3%) for an total 0f 20% of plastic weight.. carbonate calcium isn't used inside process.
                          For obtain more info on process and on catylst used please read patent US20090078557
                          Last edited by tutanka; 03-28-2011, 12:30 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Catalyst

                            Seems to me like there are 2 different areas where we can use a catalyst, and it would be helpful in our discussion to clarify which we're talking about, in our posts.
                            One is a catalyst, like Calcium Carbonate, in the end stages of the process, to deal with this whole dioxin thing; to trigger a chemical reaction which affects the gaseous product we get at the end.All well and good, although I feel like I have enough info in this area, to proceed.
                            The other is a catalyst in the heating chamber, or at least in the early heated condensers; purpose to trigger a reaction that will affect the 'cracking' of the fuels.Could be used to 'speed up' the process, or affect the quantity or quality of the liquid fuels.Similar to what they do in oil refineries, and what goes on in a catalyctic reactor on a car.This I would like to know more about.Its my understanding that certain metals, at certain temps, can be catalysts for certain chemical reactions.Some desirable, others not.Some at low temps, like copper, can cause an acceleration of turning liquid fuels like gasoline or diesel into varnish, for instance.
                            I know at temps over 1000 degrees F, palladium, platinum etc. can trigger a reaction, which converts petroleum products to hydrogen, and ignites them.Also not a desirable effect.Would like to know what such metals in the heating chamber would have, at these lower temps.It would be nice to be able to control how much diesel, how much 'gasoline' and how much gaseous fuel would be produced.Or, to accelerate the cracking process, which might reduce the amount of energy needed per batch, by using the right catalyst.Anyone have any input on this? Jim

                            Comment


                            • Tutanka

                              I made a search on GOOGLE Advanced Patent Search for US20090078557 patent + the word catalyst and it came NO RESULTS..
                              made some others searches on United States Patent and Trademark Office Search for Patents NO RESULTS at all...

                              Are you sure this is the right number US20090078557...

                              If possible, please, post the link to the patent.


                              Still my question about "calcium carbonate CaCO3" how to use it on the reactor/solution... if not inside... where... when... why...

                              Maybe the answers are on this patent, but it wil be ease for everyone on the forum to have it posted here...

                              Thanks
                              Last edited by seashore; 03-09-2011, 04:17 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seashore View Post
                                I made a search on GOOGLE Advanced Patent Search for US20090078557 patent + the word catalyst and it came NO RESULTS..
                                made some others searches on United States Patent and Trademark Office Search for Patents NO RESULTS at all...

                                Are you sure this is the right number US20090078557...

                                If possible, please, post the link to the patent.


                                Still my question about "calcium carbonate CaCO3" how to use it on the reactor/solution... if not inside... where... when... why...

                                Maybe the answers are on this patent, but it wil be ease for everyone on the forum to have it posted here...

                                Thanks
                                You can found here.. Transverse- flow pyrocatalytic reactor for conversion of waste plastic material and scrap rubber

                                Comment

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