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  • sunilkm153
    replied
    Originally posted by Jetijs View Post
    The process is really simple, it is similar to how alcohol is made. If you heat plastic waste in non oxygen environment, it will melt, but will not burn. After it has melted, it will start to boil and evaporate, you just need to put those vapors through a cooling pipe and when cooled the vapors will condense to a liquid and some of the vapors with shorter hydrocarbon lengths will remain as a gas. The exit of the cooling pipe is then going through a bubbler containing water to capture the last liquid forms of fuel and leave only gas that is then burned. If the cooling of the cooling tube is sufficient, there will be no fuel in the bubbler, but if not, the water will capture all the remaining fuel that will float above the water and can be poured off the water. On the bottom of the cooling tube is a steel reservoir that collects all the liquid and it has a release valve on the bottom so that the liquid fuel can be poured out. Here are some pictures to better understand the design:









    This device works on electricity (3 phase), it has six nichrome coils as heating elements and consumes a total of 6kW (1kW each coil). The coils are turned on and off by three solid state relays, one for each phase, the relays are controlled by a digital thermostat with a temperature sensor just a bit below the lid, so that the vapor temperature can be monitored. You need to heat the plastic slowly to about 350 degrees and just wait till it does the magic. Our device has a capacity of 50 liters and can hold about 30 kg of shredded plastic. The process takes about 4 hours, but it can be shortened considerably by tweaking the design a bit. As I said, this makes a liquid fuel that can be used as multifuel, that means it can be used on diesel engines and also on gasoline engines, but we still need to test it will work on gasoline. It works for diesel engines just fine, that has already been tested. There is a difference in what plastic you use, if you use polyethylene (plastic cans, plastic foil, and all kind of flexible non break plastics) you will get out liquid fuel that will solidify as it cools into paraffin, it is still good for diesel engines as long as you use a heated fuel tank, because it needs to be heated just about at 30 degrees celsius to be liquid and transparent. If you don't want that, you can put the paraffin through the device for one more time and you will chop those hydrocarbons even smaller and half of the paraffin will turn to liquid fuel and other half will remain a paraffin, but much denser and will melt at higher temperatures, this is the stuff you can make candles out of and it does not smell at all when burned, maybe a bit like candles. But if you use polypropylene (computer monitor cases, printer cases, other plastics that break easily), you get out only liquid fuel, no paraffin at all. All you need is just filter the fuel out of solids and you good to go and put it in your gas tank. We have made the analysis and it is almost the perfect diesel fraction. It has no acids or alkalines in it, like fuel from tires does. The unit in the pictures can convert about 60 kg of plastic into 60 liters of fuel in one day. Other methods of heating the reactor can be employed, electricity is just easier to work with and control. Some Japanese companies manufacture such devices, but their prices for this size unit is more than 100 000$, our home made device cost us 900$ max. We use aluminum oxide bricks to insulate the heat, they are light as foam and can be easily cut in any shape, but any kind of insulator can be used. The bricks make the highest costs for this device. It can also be made using liquid fuel burners to heat the reactor, this will enable to make the device self sustainable by using about 10-15% of the produced fuel along with the produced gas. A small farm can use a device this size and make fuel for itself by converting plastic waste to fuel, farms have very much plastic waste and it is a big problem, at least in my country. Our next goal is to make the same thing possible using biomass, every farm could then use old leafs, wet grass, saw dust and all kind of biomass and gasify it into tar like substance that can then be put through the pyrolysis device and turned into biodiesel. But we will see about that. Here are some fuel samples:

    These are samples from polyethylene, in the first run out comes mostly paraffin like liquid that solidifies at temperatures below 20 degrees celsius, the other clear sample is from the same paraffin that is gone through the process one more time. Will post more pictures and a video later.
    Thanks,
    Jetijs
    where are all senior members . I miss jetijs imbd excaliber asad and several others We all built our own pilot plants and sucessfully operate the same . I think this discussion is saturated now . If all senior members are reading this may I suggest to start this discussion in the same field but for scaling up this technology for bigger capacities and towards commercialisition
    THANKS

    Leave a comment:


  • Beyond Biodiesel
    replied
    Originally posted by kimmoa View Post
    Hey. The reason I wanted to contact him is that I drive across Latvia in November and the road goes something like 50km away from his workshop. Would be interested in dropping in and saying hi, and perhaps even have a look at the equipment before I start welding my own. Have already collected almost all the material and the welding is about to begin soon.
    If you run into Jetijs, please do take some photos and check back here when you get back on line next.
    Originally posted by NickTech View Post
    Hi Beyond Biodiesel, thanks for your quick reply. So, if I good understand, cutting the plastics in small parts, there will be no problems in using an expansion vessel.
    I see no reason why an expansion tank would not work as a retort/reaction vessel, so if you can grind up the plastic small enough to fit through a 3/4" hole, then it should work. It just sounds liek a lot of trouble. One option might be to build a large open top tank that you use to melt the plastic into liquid, then pour, pump, or push the liquid into your reactor.
    Originally posted by NickTech View Post
    I insist on this point because I have problems in modifying the propane thank as proposed by Jetijs. If you can suggest an alternative "ready to use" (or almost), I will appreciate.

    A curiosity:the secon unit by Jetijs uses a flanged tube as reactor camber?

    Thank you
    Nicola
    An old compressor tank should work fine as a reaction vessel. Any steel tank with a reasonable wall thickness and a copper or graphite seal flange on the top is best. Find the industrial scrap yards in your area, and keep looking for surplus equipment that you can re-purpose.

    Leave a comment:


  • NickTech
    replied
    Originally posted by Beyond Biodiesel View Post
    Welcome NickTech, if you are going to crack solids, such as plastics and rubber, back into petroleum, then you will want a large enough opening at the top to get those solids it. I think 1ft (12"/30cm) is a good diameter. If you are planning on distilling waste oils, such as waste motor oil (WMO), then a 3/4" tapered thread fitting should work fine.
    Hi Beyond Biodiesel, thanks for your quick reply. So, if I good understand, cutting the plastics in small parts, there will be no problems in using an expansion vessel.

    I insist on this point because I have problems in modifying the propane thank as proposed by Jetijs. If you can suggest an alternative "ready to use" (or almost), I will appreciate.

    A curiosity:the secon unit by Jetijs uses a flanged tube as reactor camber?

    Thank you
    Nicola

    Leave a comment:


  • kimmoa
    replied
    Hey. The reason I wanted to contact him is that I drive across Latvia in November and the road goes something like 50km away from his workshop. Would be interested in dropping in and saying hi, and perhaps even have a look at the equipment before I start welding my own. Have already collected almost all the material and the welding is about to begin soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beyond Biodiesel
    replied
    Thanks ashiki, i will keep inductive heating in mind for a possible future build. I am still using hot plates, band heaters, and line wrap in physical contact with my retort, and I am happy with it for now.

    Leave a comment:


  • ashiki
    replied
    Originally posted by Beyond Biodiesel View Post
    Good work

    I have read of researchers using microwaves for pyrolysis, and perhaps electromagnetic heating might work, but I do not believe the consumer units are capable of withstanding 800F (425c).
    i tried to heat up my 1st retort(just 4 test) in my mom's old induction cooker
    (works on electromagnetic induction)
    which dont really need a physical contact to heat.
    but found it too hard to control,
    i.e it made the retort red hot in 30secs, and .if in physical contact-glass like thing above it starts melting!
    so it can be used but requiers breaking up the electronics,and a fixup!

    one thing is that its much much energy efficient than normal heaters.
    im still trying to make use of it!

    Leave a comment:


  • ashiki
    replied
    Thanks!

    Thanks everybody.
    my unit is complete and i am gonna run it today! (back to garbage dive)
    feedstock:most probably hdpe,ldpe,and pp mixture!
    thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • Beyond Biodiesel
    replied
    Originally posted by kimmoa View Post
    Does anyone know if Jetijs still follows this thread? I've tried to contact him by private message but no reply and don't even know if the messaging works correctly. I should urgently contact him. So, Jetijs, please if you read this either reply to my private message or send a short email to kimmoa@hotmail.com

    Thanks!
    My guess is Jetijs PM box has been stuffed with people wanting advice, so he may have stopped checking it. If you have questions about building a pyrolysis unit, then this is as good a place as any to post those questions; and you will probably get a quicker answer.

    Leave a comment:


  • kimmoa
    replied
    Does anyone know if Jetijs still follows this thread? I've tried to contact him by private message but no reply and don't even know if the messaging works correctly. I should urgently contact him. So, Jetijs, please if you read this either reply to my private message or send a short email to kimmoa@hotmail.com

    Thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • kvdb111
    replied
    Thank you BB.
    The magnetic process is called Induction heating.
    It does not look viable as there are very expensive electronic parts and fans that might not be up for the task.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beyond Biodiesel
    replied
    Originally posted by NickTech View Post
    Hello to everybody and thank you for sharing your knowledge, in particular to Jetijs.
    I'm going to construct a pyrolysis system and I would ask if an expansipn vessel (closing the bottom part where there is the valve) can be used as a reactor camber. Do you see any problems? The acting pressure inside the camber can determine a failure of the vessel that I want to use?
    Welcome NickTech, if you are going to crack solids, such as plastics and rubber, back into petroleum, then you will want a large enough opening at the top to get those solids it. I think 1ft (12"/30cm) is a good diameter. If you are planning on distilling waste oils, such as waste motor oil (WMO), then a 3/4" tapered thread fitting should work fine.

    Leave a comment:


  • NickTech
    replied
    Originally posted by Jetijs View Post
    The process is really simple, it is similar to how alcohol is made. If you heat plastic waste in non oxygen environment, it will melt, but will not burn. After it has melted, it will start to boil and evaporate, you just need to put those vapors through a cooling pipe and when cooled the vapors will condense to a liquid and some of the vapors with shorter hydrocarbon lengths will remain as a gas. The exit of the cooling pipe is then going through a bubbler containing water to capture the last liquid forms of fuel and leave only gas that is then burned. If the cooling of the cooling tube is sufficient, there will be no fuel in the bubbler, but if not, the water will capture all the remaining fuel that will float above the water and can be poured off the water. On the bottom of the cooling tube is a steel reservoir that collects all the liquid and it has a release valve on the bottom so that the liquid fuel can be poured out. Here are some pictures to better understand the design:









    This device works on electricity (3 phase), it has six nichrome coils as heating elements and consumes a total of 6kW (1kW each coil). The coils are turned on and off by three solid state relays, one for each phase, the relays are controlled by a digital thermostat with a temperature sensor just a bit below the lid, so that the vapor temperature can be monitored. You need to heat the plastic slowly to about 350 degrees and just wait till it does the magic. Our device has a capacity of 50 liters and can hold about 30 kg of shredded plastic. The process takes about 4 hours, but it can be shortened considerably by tweaking the design a bit. As I said, this makes a liquid fuel that can be used as multifuel, that means it can be used on diesel engines and also on gasoline engines, but we still need to test it will work on gasoline. It works for diesel engines just fine, that has already been tested. There is a difference in what plastic you use, if you use polyethylene (plastic cans, plastic foil, and all kind of flexible non break plastics) you will get out liquid fuel that will solidify as it cools into paraffin, it is still good for diesel engines as long as you use a heated fuel tank, because it needs to be heated just about at 30 degrees celsius to be liquid and transparent. If you don't want that, you can put the paraffin through the device for one more time and you will chop those hydrocarbons even smaller and half of the paraffin will turn to liquid fuel and other half will remain a paraffin, but much denser and will melt at higher temperatures, this is the stuff you can make candles out of and it does not smell at all when burned, maybe a bit like candles. But if you use polypropylene (computer monitor cases, printer cases, other plastics that break easily), you get out only liquid fuel, no paraffin at all. All you need is just filter the fuel out of solids and you good to go and put it in your gas tank. We have made the analysis and it is almost the perfect diesel fraction. It has no acids or alkalines in it, like fuel from tires does. The unit in the pictures can convert about 60 kg of plastic into 60 liters of fuel in one day. Other methods of heating the reactor can be employed, electricity is just easier to work with and control. Some Japanese companies manufacture such devices, but their prices for this size unit is more than 100 000$, our home made device cost us 900$ max. We use aluminum oxide bricks to insulate the heat, they are light as foam and can be easily cut in any shape, but any kind of insulator can be used. The bricks make the highest costs for this device. It can also be made using liquid fuel burners to heat the reactor, this will enable to make the device self sustainable by using about 10-15% of the produced fuel along with the produced gas. A small farm can use a device this size and make fuel for itself by converting plastic waste to fuel, farms have very much plastic waste and it is a big problem, at least in my country. Our next goal is to make the same thing possible using biomass, every farm could then use old leafs, wet grass, saw dust and all kind of biomass and gasify it into tar like substance that can then be put through the pyrolysis device and turned into biodiesel. But we will see about that. Here are some fuel samples:

    These are samples from polyethylene, in the first run out comes mostly paraffin like liquid that solidifies at temperatures below 20 degrees celsius, the other clear sample is from the same paraffin that is gone through the process one more time. Will post more pictures and a video later.
    Thanks,
    Jetijs
    Hello to everybody and thank you for sharing your knowledge, in particular to Jetijs.
    I'm going to construct a pyrolysis system and I would ask if an expansipn vessel (closing the bottom part where there is the valve) can be used as a reactor camber. Do you see any problems? The acting pressure inside the camber can determine a failure of the vessel that I want to use?

    Leave a comment:


  • NickTech
    replied
    Originally posted by Jetijs View Post
    The process is really simple, it is similar to how alcohol is made. If you heat plastic waste in non oxygen environment, it will melt, but will not burn. After it has melted, it will start to boil and evaporate, you just need to put those vapors through a cooling pipe and when cooled the vapors will condense to a liquid and some of the vapors with shorter hydrocarbon lengths will remain as a gas. The exit of the cooling pipe is then going through a bubbler containing water to capture the last liquid forms of fuel and leave only gas that is then burned. If the cooling of the cooling tube is sufficient, there will be no fuel in the bubbler, but if not, the water will capture all the remaining fuel that will float above the water and can be poured off the water. On the bottom of the cooling tube is a steel reservoir that collects all the liquid and it has a release valve on the bottom so that the liquid fuel can be poured out. Here are some pictures to better understand the design:









    This device works on electricity (3 phase), it has six nichrome coils as heating elements and consumes a total of 6kW (1kW each coil). The coils are turned on and off by three solid state relays, one for each phase, the relays are controlled by a digital thermostat with a temperature sensor just a bit below the lid, so that the vapor temperature can be monitored. You need to heat the plastic slowly to about 350 degrees and just wait till it does the magic. Our device has a capacity of 50 liters and can hold about 30 kg of shredded plastic. The process takes about 4 hours, but it can be shortened considerably by tweaking the design a bit. As I said, this makes a liquid fuel that can be used as multifuel, that means it can be used on diesel engines and also on gasoline engines, but we still need to test it will work on gasoline. It works for diesel engines just fine, that has already been tested. There is a difference in what plastic you use, if you use polyethylene (plastic cans, plastic foil, and all kind of flexible non break plastics) you will get out liquid fuel that will solidify as it cools into paraffin, it is still good for diesel engines as long as you use a heated fuel tank, because it needs to be heated just about at 30 degrees celsius to be liquid and transparent. If you don't want that, you can put the paraffin through the device for one more time and you will chop those hydrocarbons even smaller and half of the paraffin will turn to liquid fuel and other half will remain a paraffin, but much denser and will melt at higher temperatures, this is the stuff you can make candles out of and it does not smell at all when burned, maybe a bit like candles. But if you use polypropylene (computer monitor cases, printer cases, other plastics that break easily), you get out only liquid fuel, no paraffin at all. All you need is just filter the fuel out of solids and you good to go and put it in your gas tank. We have made the analysis and it is almost the perfect diesel fraction. It has no acids or alkalines in it, like fuel from tires does. The unit in the pictures can convert about 60 kg of plastic into 60 liters of fuel in one day. Other methods of heating the reactor can be employed, electricity is just easier to work with and control. Some Japanese companies manufacture such devices, but their prices for this size unit is more than 100 000$, our home made device cost us 900$ max. We use aluminum oxide bricks to insulate the heat, they are light as foam and can be easily cut in any shape, but any kind of insulator can be used. The bricks make the highest costs for this device. It can also be made using liquid fuel burners to heat the reactor, this will enable to make the device self sustainable by using about 10-15% of the produced fuel along with the produced gas. A small farm can use a device this size and make fuel for itself by converting plastic waste to fuel, farms have very much plastic waste and it is a big problem, at least in my country. Our next goal is to make the same thing possible using biomass, every farm could then use old leafs, wet grass, saw dust and all kind of biomass and gasify it into tar like substance that can then be put through the pyrolysis device and turned into biodiesel. But we will see about that. Here are some fuel samples:

    These are samples from polyethylene, in the first run out comes mostly paraffin like liquid that solidifies at temperatures below 20 degrees celsius, the other clear sample is from the same paraffin that is gone through the process one more time. Will post more pictures and a video later.
    Thanks,
    Jetijs
    Hello to everybody and thank you for sharing your knowledge, in particular to Jetijs.
    I'm going to construct a pyrolysis system and I would ask if an expansion vessel (closing the bottom part where there is the valve) can be used as reactor camber. Do you see any problems?

    Leave a comment:


  • Beyond Biodiesel
    replied
    Originally posted by kvdb111 View Post
    Wow done all 98pages.
    Thanks all for your input.
    Now I will start collecting the parts and re reading.
    Good work
    Originally posted by kvdb111 View Post
    Wow done all 98pages.
    Just one question please.. What about those new hot plates that heat with magnetic field changing. They seem to be super efficient. Is that not the solution for controlled temps.
    I have read of researchers using microwaves for pyrolysis, and perhaps electromagnetic heating might work, but I do not believe the consumer units are capable of withstanding 800F (425c). I use the coil from an electric stove as a hot plate, plus 2 band heaters and a line wrap heater, both of which were designed for 2000F (1000c) service.
    Originally posted by kvdb111 View Post
    Wow done all 98pages.
    One more. Is there no technology for compressing the gas to a liquid state like LPG.
    Yes, but it is expensive equipment unless you can get lucky to find one in good condition surplus.
    Originally posted by kvdb111 View Post
    Wow done all 98pages.
    If we can make the gas work for us then pyrolysis of tyres will be viable too? Or not.
    Yes, tires can be pyrolyized back into oil and fuel, and people do it.

    Leave a comment:


  • kvdb111
    replied
    Wow done all 98pages.
    Thanks all for your input.
    Now I will start collecting the parts and re reading.

    Just one question please.. What about those new hot plates that heat with magnetic field changing. They seem to be super efficient. Is that not the solution for controlled temps.

    One more. Is there no technology for compressing the gas to a liquid state like LPG.

    If we can make the gas work for us then pyrolysis of tyres will be viable too? Or not.

    Leave a comment:

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