Lockridge Device - Peter Lindemann

[grizli]

Hi all!

May I be direct here :


Has anyone here made successful replication using this simple method?

I have seen NONE of, for example youtube videos . This device is quite simple, no replications.

If all this data is correct , than self-running motor-generators device would be reported, don't you think so ?

[mbrownn]

when we wind the armature as in the video I linked to above, we need to keep the resistance low but get as many turns on as we can I am planning on #22 wire which should give me around 60 turns and around 0.1 ohm. We will need the same amount of turns on one side of the universal motor stator and this works out at about 0.13 ohms as the coil has slightly larger dimensions to get the wire in. The other stator winding need to be about 2.75 times the amount of turns so I will put 3 times as many on because it is easier to remove turns than add them.

Hopefully I will have this done in the next week

[mbrownn]

Portion of post I made at 3 Battery Charging System thread:



I started this after seeing Peter's Lockridge Device DVD. Near the end he shows the similarities of the Lockridge device to the Bedini/Watson machine. I had not tried more than 12 volts on this motor before. Peter's earlier posts here wanted us to drive the motors with higher voltages. Based on what happened in my experiment, I am quite sure this will work, provided that 24 volts are pulsed through it. I want to try a heavier circular piece of 3/4 inch
plywood with neos on it for a flywheel. I am pretty sure the motor can handle the extra weight and size. Will have to come up with some kind of coils for it for power generation. I do have an old ceiling fan that could be used like Bizzy's Watson device.

George

The thing about the rotor/armature in the Lockridge device is it has some properties that a lap wound (normal windings) does not have.

1) You have the ability to set it up to pulse or not as your requirement may be and adjust the pulse width too

2)You have the ability to recover the inductive kickback of the rotor alone, independent of other windings there may be in the system.

3) The inductive kickback is maximized

4) with a four pole pattern it is able to generate and motor at the same time.

The flywheel action may not be required in the Lockridge device but it does reduce ripple vibrations.

The high voltage from the capacitor may only be used to speed the ramp up of current in the motor on each pulse.

I have spent a lot of time studying this device and it is clear that it is a motor generator in one unit and not a separate motor and generator. while I believe it is still possible to do it with a standard motor and generator the additional losses work against us and you cannot get the inductive kickback to lower the impedance of the generator coils, a gain.

To understand the original Lockridge device you have to think of it as a circuit of three transformers set up to pulse and recover the energy but the transformers are set up to be open magnetic circuits with their fields bucking against each other causing the motor action. Two of the transformers are set up so that one each of their coils is able to generate, now we have a broken symmetry allowing the motor function to dominate but the amount of recovery in the inductive kickback tips the balance the other way. This is because the inductive kickback is able to produce collectable power and a motor function at the same time in a way where it is fed back to the source reducing the input requirement. This now allows the weaker generator function to more than make up the difference.

[FRC]

Portion of post I made at 3 Battery Charging System thread:

This small motor was one I had attached a sort of a flywheel to with heavy (for its size) ceramic magnets on it hoping to make a type of Lockridge/Watson hybrid. Well I was amazed with the free spin time after disconnecting it. The original idea, a year ago, with this motor was to pulse it and have the free spin time continue while the magnets passed coils.

I started this after seeing Peter's Lockridge Device DVD. Near the end he shows the similarities of the Lockridge device to the Bedini/Watson machine. I had not tried more than 12 volts on this motor before. Peter's earlier posts here wanted us to drive the motors with higher voltages. Based on what happened in my experiment, I am quite sure this will work, provided that 24 volts are pulsed through it. I want to try a heavier circular piece of 3/4 inch
plywood with neos on it for a flywheel. I am pretty sure the motor can handle the extra weight and size. Will have to come up with some kind of coils for it for power generation. I do have an old ceiling fan that could be used like Bizzy's Watson device.

George

[mbrownn]

I have just seen a video that shows how to wind a wave wound 2 pole armature, It's not mine but shows the basic layout for two poles. The instruction begins 2.44 into the video. He also points out one problem with some wave configurations ie. opposing current.

This pattern will be suitable for testing the commutator configuration, and interactions between the coils. Notice how he splits the coil for balance, It could be improved slightly by winding the two halves of the coil in adjacent slots on the rotor as this will narrow the pole a little but doing this also has the downside of halving the number of coils you can fit which will increase ripple magnitude. You could overlap the coils if you co not totally fill the slots but this may cause differing impedance's as the coils would be wound bigger on the ones that overlap. The speed may also be twice as fast as it allows more turns and or bigger wire. Remember we need very low resistance. In the end all these options need to be tested. 12VDC Motor Rewind - YouTube

[mbrownn]

mbrown,
Check out the link below. These guys build custom motors and will give you a quote on price based on YOUR specs. If the price is too steep, let's see what we can do about getting a couple folks to chip in on cost to get a prototype, or pm me and I'll see what I can do to get one. Let's not let something like that stand in the way. If you're going to get one built, you might as well get the splits in the case in the place where you want them too.
MET Motors, Leading Manufacturer of Standard and Custom OEM Permanent Magnet DC Motors - PMDC

Dave

Sounds like a plan but before we spend money, I have a genetic aversion to spending money, I want to confirm some things about my theories.

I have a few burned out universal motors I can play with so I will start rewinding, build a test rig and give it a go. I don't expect overunity as these motors were only about 35% efficient at best but I f i can get them up to 70 or 80%, just think what can be done with a motor that is more efficient to start with. I figure the efficiency barrier is 75%, motors above this will go into overunity.

Apart from rewinding the armature and adjusting all the brushes the rest is very simple. I will post the things we need to do as I do it myself so you can all replicate it and we can compare results.

The first thing you will need is an old universal motor, strip out the armature and pull off the stator coils because we need to rewind them with thicker wire

[Turion]

mbrown,
Check out the link below. These guys build custom motors and will give you a quote on price based on YOUR specs. If the price is too steep, let's see what we can do about getting a couple folks to chip in on cost to get a prototype, or pm me and I'll see what I can do to get one. Let's not let something like that stand in the way. If you're going to get one built, you might as well get the splits in the case in the place where you want them too.
MET Motors, Leading Manufacturer of Standard and Custom OEM Permanent Magnet DC Motors - PMDC

Dave

[mbrownn]

Most of what Iam familiar with the lap wound, is commonly used on starter motor armatures with heavy copper wire. just by looking at the wire its easy to tell the way it connectd to the commutator segments. I tried using the lap wound armature. the current goes in the armature in and out at 90 degrees. So the 2 feild coils need to be at 90 degrees along with the other 2 on the other side for power. I couldnt get it to work any other way. Maybe someone else knows how to do it if so we can find out from them.

Almost every armature is lap wound these days, that is why Peter initiated the winding contest. I now fully understand where he is coming from. The zigzag winding is a simplified wave winding and you should get continuity at 90, 180 and 270 degrees but at no other positions. Recheck your armature to see if this is the case. You continue the same pattern all the way round the armature until all the slots are full.

We connect the power at zero and 180 degrees and the generator coils are at 90 and 270 degrees. You can make a motor generator with a permanent magnet motor that is configured this way but it won't be overunity. The reason is we have to have the transformer effect passing the inductive kickback into the generator coils from the power coils. This is the reason for the split in the case too, I believe, to stop interference canceling out the effect.

The collector brushes are one segment width away from the power brushes so that it collects the inductive kickback of the armature and the brushes need to be 1 segment wide or less on the collector circuit.

All the starter motors I have looked at are lap wound, the reason being it reduces sparking at the brushes.

I am fairly sure that this is the lockridge circuit but without the trifilar coil Circuit Simulator Applet

The top transformer represents 1 motor and one generator coil, the middle transformer represents the armature and the bottom one is the second motor and generator coils.

It will be difficult to get it into overunity because modern motors and generators are not efficient enough and have too high a resistance. We need a 4 pole wave wound motor or generator that is truly 85% efficient to start with or it wont work. I don't know where to find one so I will be winding my own but the problem is the clearance between the armature and stator is too great on every motor I have seen.

I am going to experiment to see if it can be done with a 2 pole universal motor as these are readily available but it is unlikely that I will achieve overunity because of the gap between the armature and stator. I will be able to test the principal with a universal motor.

There will be other potential gains too but I cannot confirm this until I have a motor built to test,

[Hiwater]

I found a little more information on the armature windings, there are two types, Lap winding or wave winding.

electrics_158.gif (image)

I could be wrong, but I believe wave winding may be what we are looking for. My question about are they wound in pairs refers to the fact that there are two coils in parallel attached to each pair of commutator segments but other pairs of coils on the armature have no connection.

The rotor on the EFTV video looks like it may be lap wound as it has double the number of segments when compared to the slots for the windings unless there is extra segments and coils because it is a 4 pole device. A simple continuity test between adjacent segments would establish this.

Most of what Iam familiar with the lap wound, is commonly used on starter motor armatures with heavy copper wire. just by looking at the wire its easy to tell the way it connectd to the commutator segments. I tried using the lap wound armature. the current goes in the armature in and out at 90 degrees. So the 2 feild coils need to be at 90 degrees along with the other 2 on the other side for power. I couldnt get it to work any other way. Maybe someone else knows how to do it if so we can find out from them.

[Turion]

I need to amend something I posted here earlier. The motors we have been using in our experiments are permanent magnet motors, not wound rotors and wound stators. My mistake and sorry if that confused anyone. I have started a separate thread for those who are replicating, and I believe we are having some success.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...ng-system.html

One thing I wanted to mention here from what I have seen that may apply. When we pulse our third battery from the two in series through the motor, I believe we are causing a flip flop in magnetic field by hitting the negative side of the battery with positive, and the positive side of the battery with negative. This is why the battery builds a "memory" of that magnetic alignment that holds for a couple days and then fades away. Until the plates in battery three begin to absorb current, we get usable voltage to power loads, but once they begin to absorb, the magic goes away. Heavily sulfated batteries work wonders in the third position and we have gotten some nice long runs , running loads on the inverter. Our primary batteries always seem to recover completely.

I am in the process of building an 80 coil energizer. It will take me a while. I've got almost all the parts now, and have been welding things up. It's much better than the one in my video at
3 Motor Setup - YouTube

Dave

[mbrownn]

Keep in mind that the original VW and Delco/Remi were generators to start
with, made to run as motors also.

George

Yes, I really want to look at the armature winding pattern, I believe it to be wave but there is a third option that I know of. The wave pattern fits in well with the generator function too if it is a four pole armature.

[mbrownn]

If we put our brushes top dead center of the pole shoe so our feild coil is fully saturated, lined up with 1 commutator segment. it shouldnt take that much to run these motors, once they get up to speed. Then the feild coil might not expell all its energy trying to slow us down. It can retain a lot of its energy to help keep the armature rotating. So it doesnt take much to saturate it again. To start the process over again.

The actual position of the brushes would have to be optimized to get the best compromise between power and generation. I believe the best way to do this is with the motor running and by using brushes on a moveable backplate. The discharge of inductive kickback does indeed add to the motoring function and this is where one of the gains in energy is to be found. To maximize the gain we will probably have to totally discharge the coil, a practice not employed in PWM, so we will have to recharge the coil from a totally discharged condition, twice per revolution. This will mean our frequency will be will have to remain relatively low, a good thing in a mechanical device.

The action of the brushes is very important and complex in what it does. Now that I am beginning to grasp all the functions of the commutator, I think it would be very difficult to reproduce electronically. I believe the original Lockridge was a uniquely mechanical device that would be impractical to reproduce without commutator switching. Part of this is because I believe it also serves a function in magnifying the transients but I don't want to go into that until I have something built to test.

[FRC]

Keep in mind that the original VW and Delco/Remi were generators to start
with, made to run as motors also.

George

[FRC]

If we put our brushes top dead center of the pole shoe so our feild coil is fully saturated, lined up with 1 commutator segment. it shouldnt take that much to run these motors, once they get up to speed. Then the feild coil might not expell all its energy trying to slow us down. It can retain a lot of its energy to help keep the armature rotating. So it doesnt take much to saturate it again. To start the process over again.

Would be good to take a look at a 1950's Delco/Remi generator commutator and
brush setup. Since JB said "Norm made a big point about this" Does anybody
have one ?

George

[Hiwater]

Brush placement

If we put our brushes top dead center of the pole shoe so our feild coil is fully saturated, lined up with 1 commutator segment. it shouldnt take that much to run these motors, once they get up to speed. Then the feild coil might not expell all its energy trying to slow us down. It can retain a lot of its energy to help keep the armature rotating. So it doesnt take much to saturate it again. To start the process over again.