Emphimp
You might want to go back and study the 3 graphs again. The scales were not the same on all 3. Pick out different settings and compare them on all 3 graphs.
Mark
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Lockridge Device - Peter Lindemann
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Anybody out there have one of those newer high efficiency furnaces? I'm told they have a dc motor in them, and that they are insanely cheap to operate, as far as the electricity consumed. (something like $50 per year, running them 24 hours a day, every day of the year)
It'd be neat to put a scope on one of these - they may encompass the very idea that we're all talking about on this thread. Torque enhancement off the shelf!Last edited by emfimp; 01-02-2011, 06:34 AM.
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Originally posted by phil.g View PostMy recollection from the DVD is we want to use a DC shunt motor (field coil in parallel). It seems to me a series-wound configuration would offer unnecessarily large resistance to current flow from the capacitor. To get maximum torque, we want maximum current.
It might be worth exploring the idea of decoupling the field coils altogether, and run them on 12VDC, either commutated in parallel with the armature or just on all the time. Commutation might produce a bit more "kick" as the field coil current is switched off, similar to how an ignition coil works. 12VDC through the field coils would eliminate the need for rewinding for higher voltage or a resistor in series to limit the voltage.
Good points Phil - Peter does recommend a shunt motor in the vid, & I'm not entirely sure why. The series wound (according to his 3 comparison graphs) shows a lot more torque available, compared to the shunt or permanent magnet motors. It is possible the armature winding method that Peter recommends is only available on shunt wound motors...
As far as the idea presented of rewinding the field coils (for a shunt motor specifically), I believe that the purpose of this is not because of the higher voltage input - we are running a lower duty cycle along with the higher voltage, so this ought to even out. (No smoke test danger here)
I believe the purpose of rewinding the field with more turns of higher gauge wire, or adding a resistor, is to lower the field strength, which will lower the back emf generated - thus increasing the available output power from the motor. (making it act more like a series wound)
I agree that we want maximum torque from the motor, & therefore maximum current is desirable. I do believe that whatever added resistance that may exist from a series motor configuration will not be significant, as Peter talks about the resistances from these motors being 1 ohm or lower. Wish I had mine here to measure...
Also, back to Peter's 3 torque/speed charts, the series motor again seems to demonstrate significantly more torque than the other two configs, demonstrating a real life advantage. Reality trumps everything, with the exception of the stock market & banks - there you'll find that money trumps reality...
Also one other specific about the motor I picked up - technically it is a split series motor. Basically there are 4 field poles - 2 in series with each other, and this pair in parallel with another 2 that are in series with each other. Then this whole assembly is wired in series with the armature. If one wanted to reduce the resistance of the motor further, one option would be to simply wire all 4 field poles in parallel with each other, then wire this assembly in series with the armature. Of course, as you have pointed out, there are far more options than this as well.
Love the discussions that are happening here!Last edited by emfimp; 01-02-2011, 06:16 AM.
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The commutator is almost complete, just lacking a spring system. I decided to take a few measurements on the frictional losses ( brushes, bearings, flywheel etc ) and found it to be quite high - much higher than I would consider good. Taking some measurements from the flywheel I ended up reading about 1.5 lbs on a 3.37 radius to start rotation. This would be a load of about .4 ft lbs continuous and at 3000 rpm were looking at mechanical losses of around 170 watts - not good.
The motor alone runs 80 watts no load, with the flywheel it draws 110 watts until it's up to speed then falls to the original 80 watts but with the starter connected draws 180 watts. The starter motor may not be the best choice. Removing the brushes from the starter it seems to freewheel quite nicely, the brush drag is extreemly high.
I'm going to look into some alternatives and start work on phase 2 of this project. I believe Peter's attraction motor to be a far better alternative to the starter motor.
I'm going to need another week....
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StunningNikaLast edited by dragon; 05-11-2011, 11:12 AM.
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Originally posted by Bill H View PostHere is a link to a free download of an AC Delco electrical manual from the ww2 era. Covers Starters, Generators and Ignition...very interesting. TM 9-1825a - Delco-Remy Electrical Repair Manual, WW2
Bill H.
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Creole & Cajun RecipesLast edited by dragon; 05-11-2011, 11:11 AM.
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Ac Delco components ww2 era
Here is a link to a free download of an AC Delco electrical manual from the ww2 era. Covers Starters, Generators and Ignition...very interesting. TM 9-1825a - Delco-Remy Electrical Repair Manual, WW2
Bill H.
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Ok I received and watched the video......
If we need large motors like the ones in the video to get 300 watts then what kind of system would we need to get 3K watts.... or even 5K watts?
My house uses way more than 300 watts.....
Hopes and Dreams....
Tj
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Originally posted by emfimp View PostThanks Mark - you are indeed correct - my motor is definitely series wound.
It might be worth exploring the idea of decoupling the field coils altogether, and run them on 12VDC, either commutated in parallel with the armature or just on all the time. Commutation might produce a bit more "kick" as the field coil current is switched off, similar to how an ignition coil works. 12VDC through the field coils would eliminate the need for rewinding for higher voltage or a resistor in series to limit the voltage.
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Field - Shunt / Series
Thanks Mark - you are indeed correct - my motor is definitely series wound.
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Finally get a chance to take some pics of a comm setup that is very easy to put together and very adjustable. Like I said just mount them both on a shaft and jumper as many comm segments together as needed then connect the slip ring terminal to the segments jumpered together. HTH WayneAttached Files
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Originally posted by radiant1 View PostBy Peter Lindemann
"The idea behind my lecture is to come to a deep understanding of the motor functions of the machine. My goal is NOT TO REDEVELOPE The LOCKRIDGE DEVICE, although I am not against any of you trying. My goal is to learn exactly how to run ordinary motors in a torque enhanced condition at high speed to produce a GAIN in MECHANICAL POWER."
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In light of the above statements I now see the need to change the name of this tread to "Improving Conventional Motor Efficiancy". There needs to be a new thread started just for those building lockridge type devices. If I knew how to, I would do that. I think most on this thead are in the "I want to build a lockridge device catagory".
My current ideas to build a lockridge type device are to get a generator with several power circiuts. We are looking for a generator from a portable welder. They put out lots of power and have multiple output circiut combinations, like 12volt, 110 volts and 220 volts. We are going to use the 12volt circuit to run a 12 volt drive motor to run the generator. The other circuits can then be used for power without the need to ad caps and coils. There are 2 ways to make the 12 volt drive motor work better. 1. A speed control to run it slower with pulleys to run the generator. 2. pulse the drive motor with a PWM.
There is a witts.com video showing a motor and generator connected together with no electronics. They ran a grinder and drill press with that set up.
Looking forward to a new thread starting.
Alan
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Motorcycle TiresLast edited by dragon; 05-11-2011, 11:11 AM.
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No Replications
Originally posted by erfinder View PostHello,
I sincerely applaud the efforts of all who are trying to build this device, however, I have a question. Why are trying to reinvent the wheel? Why not take a step back and look into the past, the device we seek EXISTS ALREADY!! Mind you, I'm only referring to the core of the technology in question.... A member of this forum asked whether the following patent had any relation to the device under investigation...no response was provided.....
http://www.rexresearch.com/alxandr/3913004.pdf
http://freeenergyinventions.com/Alexan4.jpg
My opinion.....the device in that patent applies!!! Not only is it relevant, the concept is old, and we have seen it before, directly and indirectly it relates to capacitor discharge driven loads...
http://www.tfcbooks.com/images/books/ntac/040.gif
This image comes from a lecture Nikola Tesla gave in 1893, in my opinion the motor/generator in this image is the same as the device shown in the first image. At the end of the day we are looking for a motor equipped with a "built in" means for charging the motor driving capacitor bank. As presented, the device isn't configured as it must be to best serve our purposes, however, its closer than anything that anyone is discussing as of late, its a whole lot cheaper too (well....thats relative!!)
What did Tesla have to say regarding driving motors with cap discharge...
"Very high frequencies are of course not practicable with motors on account of the necessity of employing iron cores. But one may use sudden discharges of low frequency and thus obtain certain advantages of high frequency currents without rendering the iron core entirely incapable of following the changes and without entailing a very great expenditure of energy in the core. I have found it quite practicable to operate with such low frequency disruptive discharges of condensers, alternating current motors. A certain class of such motors which I advanced a few years ago, which contain closed secondary circuits, will rotate quite vigorously when the discharges are directed through the exciting coils.............................By observing certain elementary rules I have also found it practicable to operate ordinary series or shunt direct current motors with such disruptive discharges, and this can be done with or without a return wire."
There you have it...straight from the man who inspired a generation....not only can we drive DC shunt and series wound motors, but also AC motors....(and you thought this was limited to DC...shame on you...
Now...the million dollar question....does the motor/generator combo used by Tesla in 1893, and the patented device exist today, and if so, whats it called...
Back in the day it was called a "ROTARY CONVERTER" the mechanical equivalent of our present day inverter! We lost a more than we bargained for when the decision was made to go electronic! Today the device goes by the same name. Research this device, its history, and discover how any wound rotor motor (AC or DC) can be converted into a Rotary converter. Once you have the rotary converter, one side can be used for motoring, and the other side for charging the cap bank....
this is just a little food for thought....no claims being made....yet!
Regards
In 1983 I was living in Santa Barbara California and working with Bruce DePalma. When the Alexander patent first surfaced, Bruce called him on the phone, as he was in Pasadena. Alexander said he wanted $250,000 for a demonstration of the machine. When DePalma said he could raise the money quickly, Alexander said, "in that case, the price just went up!". The phone call ended shortly thereafter.
A number of people in DePalma's circles built units but none of the attempts to replicate Alexander's stated energy gains ever proved out.
The bottom line is, running the machine in the standard motor and generator modes produces conventional behaviors.
No one has EVER reported success in replicating this machine.
With what we know now, it MAY be possible to get this method working, but FIRST we have to prove out the POWER GAIN mechanism in running the motor with short, high voltage, high current pulses.
I have pointed this exact quote by Tesla out in a different thread, and you are correct. But these things MUST be explored systematically or we will not discover how to accomplish this with "off-the-shelf" parts.
PeterLast edited by Peter Lindemann; 12-29-2010, 10:33 PM.
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thread needs a name change
By Peter Lindemann
"The idea behind my lecture is to come to a deep understanding of the motor functions of the machine. My goal is NOT TO REDEVELOPE The LOCKRIDGE DEVICE, although I am not against any of you trying. My goal is to learn exactly how to run ordinary motors in a torque enhanced condition at high speed to produce a GAIN in MECHANICAL POWER."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
In light of the above statements I now see the need to change the name of this tread to "Improving Conventional Motor Efficiancy". There needs to be a new thread started just for those building lockridge type devices. If I knew how to, I would do that. I think most on this thead are in the "I want to build a lockridge device catagory".
My current ideas to build a lockridge type device are to get a generator with several power circiuts. We are looking for a generator from a portable welder. They put out lots of power and have multiple output circiut combinations, like 12volt, 110 volts and 220 volts. We are going to use the 12volt circuit to run a 12 volt drive motor to run the generator. The other circuits can then be used for power without the need to ad caps and coils. There are 2 ways to make the 12 volt drive motor work better. 1. A speed control to run it slower with pulleys to run the generator. 2. pulse the drive motor with a PWM.
There is a witts.com video showing a motor and generator connected together with no electronics. They ran a grinder and drill press with that set up.
Looking forward to a new thread starting.
Alan
Leave a comment:
-
Hello,
I sincerely applaud the efforts of all who are trying to build this device, however, I have a question. Why are trying to reinvent the wheel? Why not take a step back and look into the past, the device we seek EXISTS ALREADY!! Mind you, I'm only referring to the core of the technology in question.... A member of this forum asked whether the following patent had any relation to the device under investigation...no response was provided.....
http://www.rexresearch.com/alxandr/3913004.pdf
http://freeenergyinventions.com/Alexan4.jpg
My opinion.....the device in that patent applies!!! Not only is it relevant, the concept is old, and we have seen it before, directly and indirectly it relates to capacitor discharge driven loads...
http://www.tfcbooks.com/images/books/ntac/040.gif
This image comes from a lecture Nikola Tesla gave in 1893, in my opinion the motor/generator in this image is the same as the device shown in the first image. At the end of the day we are looking for a motor equipped with a "built in" means for charging the motor driving capacitor bank. As presented, the device isn't configured as it must be to best serve our purposes, however, its closer than anything that anyone is discussing as of late, its a whole lot cheaper too (well....thats relative!!)
What did Tesla have to say regarding driving motors with cap discharge...
"Very high frequencies are of course not practicable with motors on account of the necessity of employing iron cores. But one may use sudden discharges of low frequency and thus obtain certain advantages of high frequency currents without rendering the iron core entirely incapable of following the changes and without entailing a very great expenditure of energy in the core. I have found it quite practicable to operate with such low frequency disruptive discharges of condensers, alternating current motors. A certain class of such motors which I advanced a few years ago, which contain closed secondary circuits, will rotate quite vigorously when the discharges are directed through the exciting coils.............................By observing certain elementary rules I have also found it practicable to operate ordinary series or shunt direct current motors with such disruptive discharges, and this can be done with or without a return wire."
There you have it...straight from the man who inspired a generation....not only can we drive DC shunt and series wound motors, but also AC motors....(and you thought this was limited to DC...shame on you...
Now...the million dollar question....does the motor/generator combo used by Tesla in 1893, and the patented device exist today, and if so, whats it called...
Back in the day it was called a "ROTARY CONVERTER" the mechanical equivalent of our present day inverter! We lost a more than we bargained for when the decision was made to go electronic! Today the device goes by the same name. Research this device, its history, and discover how any wound rotor motor (AC or DC) can be converted into a Rotary converter. Once you have the rotary converter, one side can be used for motoring, and the other side for charging the cap bank....
this is just a little food for thought....no claims being made....yet!
RegardsLast edited by erfinder; 12-29-2010, 08:28 PM.
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Thanks for the kind words Peter, I was concerned for a bit there I was overlooking something that might be critical. So it seems I'm still on track and forward she goes... the quest for balance - or maybe more of an "imbalance" as it were.
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VAPORITE DELUXE VAPORIZER REVIEWLast edited by dragon; 05-11-2011, 11:11 AM.
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