Lockridge Device - Peter Lindemann

[Mark]

Forgive me if I've missed something (I haven't started to build yet), but,

a) Look at post 339 and the bottom of post 170. This is only the first step.

b) I quibble, but "charging" is the wrong word. This design reduces BEMF in the drive motor, hence, it reduces the "charging" function of the motor. (Do we know yet if we are going to attach a separate charger like in the Lockridge device? I've read this thread a few times but don't remember).

c) The design attempts to recover the input energy (but can't get it all due to rotor position changes). You put in 24V at 0.8A. That's the most you can get back, albeit maybe in a different shape (unless your motor is, also, fortuitously balanced for some SSG-like effect).

pt

I realize that this is just step one of the build. I "assumed" that some charging would take place due to the capturing of the colapsing magnetic field that should step up the voltage. I also "assumed that when running 24 volts that I would be able to "capture" some of that voltage and send it to a 12 battery and get some charging but that also is not really occuring.

I don't believe that my motor is operating with all the characteristics we are looking for.

I'll wait for futher instructuions on the next steps from Peter.

[Turion]

As I understood it, the purpose of this exercise was to modify a motor so that it uses little or NO energy to operate (above what it produces) but has the torque and rpm's of the original motor. When combined with an Energizer, you would then have something that could easily be overunity.

Attached are the pictures of the rotor I have rewound. The wires are not yet soldered in place. It has great bearings on both ends, and square end caps that make it easy to mount solidly. I can't wait to connect it to my 16 coil energizer, which also has a 1/2 inch shaft. My second set of brushes should be here any day and I can complete this build and see if it runs.

[pault]

The charging isn't worth a crap anyone have any insight here?

Forgive me if I've missed something (I haven't started to build yet), but,

a) Look at post 339 and the bottom of post 170. This is only the first step.

b) I quibble, but "charging" is the wrong word. This design reduces BEMF in the drive motor, hence, it reduces the "charging" function of the motor. (Do we know yet if we are going to attach a separate charger like in the Lockridge device? I've read this thread a few times but don't remember).

c) The design attempts to recover the input energy (but can't get it all due to rotor position changes). You put in 24V at 0.8A. That's the most you can get back, albeit maybe in a different shape (unless your motor is, also, fortuitously balanced for some SSG-like effect).

pt

[FRC]

Voltage

According to Peter is not the voltage supposed to be three times its rated voltage. So that would be 72v for 24v motor. I have tried readings on unmodifed
motors, after disconnecting the power supply, and they were not that good either. I did not try at higher than rated voltage. Factors like the amount of free spin with a flywheel will play into the overall charge rate also. If momentum
of RPM's can be maintained, maybe less input pulsing could be somehow controlled externally. This would increase the input to charge ratio. That's the
way I see it. Don't be so discouraged.

FRC

[pault]

That a good point. The brush's may factor in but that is about it.

Matt

When I spoke briefly to the guy at the electric motor repair shop, he said that his (90V+) brushes wouldn't work in my 12V motor because of the difference in brush materials and the width of conductors (from the brush to the terminal). He implied that a small 12V motor draws way more current than a small 115V motor. P=VI roughly agrees with this implication.

Hmm. Mark reports that his Lindemann motor is now drawing only 0.8A, but was rated at 15A in a classical design. Peter's design is meant to run the motor in a different part of the graph, in a non-classical manner. The above assumptions about brushes and conductors may no longer be valid in this design. Hmmm...

pt

[Dave Michael Rogers]

Here's an interesting video:

YouTube - OTG- Lockridge animation 2 - DMR10.wmv

The commutator segments there are huge!!! compared to my tiny commutator on my motor. If I start with a new 16 pole motor I might have to connect several segments together like that.

Brian

Hi Brian,
Just to clarify, this "interpretation" is not based on Peter's work, in that I haven't yet seen the presentations he has made as I am waiting for the downloadable files.
In fact, even comparing it to the Lockridge as demonstrated by JB in the EFTV dvd is questionable other than in some similarities.
It is an interpretation of what John Bedini has said and done over the years.
It is obviously more complicated that just the four pole stators as it has a superpole window coil positioned where the slots are cut, when the coil is energized it should repel the armature into the generator coils of the stator. The armature coils are field coils fed by slip rings.
The commutator is multi segment, but I just showed the important slightly larger than brush break.
Anyhow, I'll go back to my cave now, I just didn't want anyone thinking that I am trying to disagree with anyone about what the Lockridge was. This bit of speculation hasn't been tried yet.
Regards
Dave
ps. Thanks for thinking it interesting.

[Mark]

I have my 4 pole running finally wound with just 2 coils with an internal diode. So it only pulses 1 time per revolution. I also have a diode on the output. I hooked a cap up on the output to start with and with 12 volts input the 10uf 250 volt cap would bounce around between 12.0 and 12.7 volts. With 24 volts input the cap would jump up at first but then come back down and bounce around between 11 and 12 volts. I removed the output diode and installed a FWBR and with 12 volts input had 12.0 volts on the cap and with 24 volts input had 22.7 volts on the cap.

I then hooked up a charging battery instead of the cap. With 12 volts input the draw was 700ma and 1225rpm's. With 24 volts input the draw was 825ma and rpms were 3100. The original rating on the motor was 24 volts, 15 amps, and 3000 rpm.

The charging isn't worth a crap anyone have any insight here?

Mark

[Matthew Jones]

I'm pointing out another assumption I see flying around here: "If I take a motor originally designed to run on N volts, rip off the windings, re-wind it -- possibly in a completely different way and with a different diameter of wire -- I will still have a motor 'designed' to run on N volts."
Is that assumption valid? Is there something about the field strength of the magnets, or some other factor, that would make it valid?

That a good point. The brush's may factor in but that is about it.

Matt

[phil.g]

Another Assumption

I'm pointing out another assumption I see flying around here: "If I take a motor originally designed to run on N volts, rip off the windings, re-wind it -- possibly in a completely different way and with a different diameter of wire -- I will still have a motor 'designed' to run on N volts."

Is that assumption valid? Is there something about the field strength of the magnets, or some other factor, that would make it valid?

[n84dafun]

Brian,

This is awesome. I think you are correct. It looks like it will work. This is a remarkably cleaver solution. I look forward to the successful tests.

Peter

Thanks Peter! I stayed up almost all night thinking about this one. The first 4 pulse idea was by accident/trial and error just to make it spin.

I have a variac that I will most likely use for my power supply testing. Just stick a FWBR and a large cap to get up to 72v DC. I'll try the 4pulse/rev setup first.

Brian

[Peter Lindemann]

Remarkably Cleaver!!!!

Peter,

Here's what I was talking about from my previous post. I don't see any problems with it working.

Brian

Brian,

This is awesome. I think you are correct. It looks like it will work. This is a remarkably cleaver solution. I look forward to the successful tests.

Peter

[pault]

Princess Auto motor

That motor is Princess Auto part no. 8366916.

I spoke to a guy at an electric motor shop. He doesn't stock anything less than 90V and the brushes for those motors wouldn't be compatible with this one. He did mention that there is a place nearby that will custom-make brushes for $100 min. order.

He said that I might find brushes at an automotive electric supply, but couldn't suggest one.

The windings are coated with baked-on varnish. He said that it might be possible to use heat to melt or burn the varnish off, otherwise I'd have to destroy the windings to take them off.

pt

[n84dafun]

I can post some pics tonight, but in the meantime, Kyle posted a youtube in message #238. He shows the brush assembly at 1:36.

Here's the direct link:

YouTube - 12volt DC motor - Bedini Mod?

Pt,

Thanks for the YouTube link. I think the video gave a pretty good picture of the brush assembly. That looks like the perfect motor for this project.

Brian

[pault]

...
I'm interested in this motor. Would it be possible to take a picture of the brush assembly? ...

I can post some pics tonight, but in the meantime, Kyle posted a youtube in message #238. He shows the brush assembly at 1:36.

Here's the direct link:

YouTube - 12volt DC motor - Bedini Mod?

[n84dafun]

I, too, have two of these from Princess Auto.

I disassembled one last night. The two immediate issues I see are:
...
2) It has only two brushes, with an external spring, which uses up realestate and might (or might not) make it tricky to place the 2nd set in just the right place. If I can't find similar brushes at a motor supply house, I'm going to have to scavenge them from a 2nd motor (rendering it useless). The brush mounting board is cut down and not big enough to hold 4 brushes, so it will probably need to be replaced.
...

thanks
pt

pt,

I'm interested in this motor. Would it be possible to take a picture of the brush assembly? Maybe I can use the brushes from my current motor for the recovery and do some grinding on the end cover.

I would prefer a 12V motor because my 24V motor would require 72V, and this one only 36V plus it's cheaper.

Brian