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Lockridge Device - Peter Lindemann

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  • Peter Lindemann
    replied
    Simple Load Test

    Originally posted by Matthew Jones View Post
    I have done 4 load tests in 2 configurations.
    These are the results from the last 2 tests of each type. All 4 are typical.
    Both test are at 72 volt level.

    The first test I did, I dumped the discharge voltage in to a cap rectified and did nothing with it. Just let the cap stand.
    Each test was 30 minutes of run 1.5 hours of rest.
    ----First test
    The rpms were 3780 average over the 4 times I checked. Beginning, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, end.
    The case temperature was 112 deg F at the end.
    The amp draw was .65
    The start voltage was 75.64 the and voltage in the battery after a rest was 75.17. For a difference of .47

    The second test was showed in the movie. What I did was out put my battery power into 3 4700 uf 450 VDC caps in serial. Then I rectified my discharge and put it in the center cap.

    ---- Second test
    The rpms were 3800. Checked 4 times average. All 4 times were 3800.
    The case temperature was at 112 deg F at the end.
    The amp draw was .5
    The the start voltage was 75.17. The end voltage was 74.63. For a difference of .54 volt.

    So the test told me my recover is in fact reintroduced back to the system because the amp draw went down and the rpms went up and were more stable as the motor warmed up.
    Most likely the extra cost was do to 2 things. A pulse motor consumes more the faster it goes. And Capacitors cost.

    I have some more tests planned but I have to get a stable, adjustable load going, and of course still gotta do the pony break on it and a stock motor.

    Cheers
    Matt
    Matt,

    The tests you site here are really electric energy recovery tests, not tests that load the motor mechanically. A simple mechanical load test would be to connect your test motor to an identical, unmodified unit, to be turned as a generator. It should produce 24 volts somewhere just below 3000rpm. Just connect a bunch of one amp automotive tail light bulbs as the load. If you connect two in series, that will be a 24 volt x 1 amp load. Additional groups can add 24 watts of load per group. 2 = 48 watts, 3 = 72 watts, etc...

    The unmodified motor should be able to act as a generator at between 80-85% efficiency, so its a good place to start with what you have. If you have enough power to light 2 or 3 groups of automotive lights, you can demonstrate the mechanical power gain in your test motor fairly conclusively.

    What do you think?

    Peter

    Leave a comment:


  • FRC
    replied
    Result

    Those results look good. .47 or .54 loss seem pretty good. With a generator
    you might get O.U.

    FRC
    Last edited by FRC; 01-24-2011, 03:52 PM. Reason: spelling

    Leave a comment:


  • Matthew Jones
    replied
    I have done 4 load tests in 2 configurations.
    These are the results from the last 2 tests of each type. All 4 are typical.
    Both test are at 72 volt level.

    The first test I did, I dumped the discharge voltage in to a cap rectified and did nothing with it. Just let the cap stand.
    Each test was 30 minutes of run 1.5 hours of rest.
    ----First test
    The rpms were 3780 average over the 4 times I checked. Beginning, 10 minutes, 20 minutes, end.
    The case temperature was 112 deg F at the end.
    The amp draw was .65
    The start voltage was 75.64 the and voltage in the battery after a rest was 75.17. For a difference of .47

    The second test was showed in the movie. What I did was out put my battery power into 3 4700 uf 450 VDC caps in serial. Then I rectified my discharge and put it in the center cap.

    ---- Second test
    The rpms were 3800. Checked 4 times average. All 4 times were 3800.
    The case temperature was at 112 deg F at the end.
    The amp draw was .5
    The the start voltage was 75.17. The end voltage was 74.63. For a difference of .54 volt.

    So the test told me my recover is in fact reintroduced back to the system because the amp draw went down and the rpms went up and were more stable as the motor warmed up.
    Most likely the extra cost was do to 2 things. A pulse motor consumes more the faster it goes. And Capacitors cost.

    I have some more tests planned but I have to get a stable, adjustable load going, and of course still gotta do the pony break on it and a stock motor.

    Cheers
    Matt

    Leave a comment:


  • Matthew Jones
    replied
    Originally posted by Peter Lindemann View Post
    Matt,
    Thanks for posting your test run. It looks very promising. I look forward to seeing a load test.
    Thank you for staying with this when people were confused. All of your perseverance and ingenuity is deeply appreciated.
    Peter
    It not a problem Peter. The whole thing is applicable to my "Bouncer" project. I am using one of these motors. So worst case I just have a better motor for it. It will be kinda nice to see this thing handle some more voltage.
    After the 72 volt load test's I am going to rewind the rotor bifiliar. If that works out I'll be running up to 120 volt if it will handle it. At least try and find the point at which it fails.
    Then I gotta look into the generator.

    Cheers
    Matt

    Leave a comment:


  • Peter Lindemann
    replied
    Lookin' Great!!

    Originally posted by Matthew Jones View Post
    5408 is kind of a sluggish diode. I would use a fast one.

    No I am not planning on moving my brush's all. The thing has got just about the same amount of power as stock for around 36 watts, half or more of which I am recovering and reusing.

    I might rewind it and make it bifilar while firing at each 180 deg point but that's about all I am going to do for now to it.

    Add a generator for sure.

    Here's a peek at the direction I am moving.
    YouTube - Lockridge_Replication.MPG

    One thing I forgot and should have waited till I filmed is the heavy electret effect from the capacitors. Once the motor is shut of and the the battery is unhooked form the system the caps will recharge to about 40 volt.
    That's always a nice thing to see.

    Matt
    Matt,

    Thanks for posting your test run. It looks very promising. I look forward to seeing a load test.

    Thank you for staying with this when people were confused. All of your perseverance and ingenuity is deeply appreciated.

    Peter

    Leave a comment:


  • pault
    replied
    Tins snips work ok, too. I'm not very mechanically minded, so there might be other ways to cut the board.

    I used the Dremel (stolen from my son) because I did not want to detach the main board and then deal with how to re-attach it.

    I worry that Peter's last posting is mildly worrisome. 12K RPM??? Is a glued-together board going to hold out? [Ah, but he did say unloaded.]

    Another thought is that I should just go out and source a chunk of unadulterated epoxy circuit board and cut a new board and graft the brushes and springs to it.

    Might be less trouble, except you need to figure out how to affix it to the 4 standoffs after destroying the original fixings.

    I'm going with the epoxy glue for now. If it shakes apart, I'll devise a plan B.

    Thanks for the encouragement!

    pt
    Last edited by pault; 01-24-2011, 03:39 PM. Reason: edit

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  • Mark
    replied
    Pault

    Looks good! I can't think of any way to improve on what you did. I dont have a dremel but have been wanting one, looks like I'll have to pick one up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Matthew Jones
    replied
    Ya it will.
    I have gotten lucky a couple of times and had it start. But it jumps so hard and all of sudden it seems to startle me every time. So I make sure its off, so my nerves stay calm. LOL

    Matt

    Leave a comment:


  • pault
    replied
    Originally posted by Matthew Jones View Post
    Heres a peek at the direction I am moving.
    Matt,

    I see that you are starting it by hand. It might self-start if you line the armature up with the brush "on" position before applying power. In the few tests with my motor, it managed to self-start.

    pt

    Leave a comment:


  • pault
    replied
    Originally posted by Mark View Post
    Ok, got ya. Have you fired her up yet or you going to wait till you get the other brushes mounted.
    Yeah, I fired it up for 5-10 seconds http://www.energeticforum.com/127271-post402.html . There's already black marks on the commutators from the arcing, so I won't be firing it up again without the 2nd brushes.

    I'll let you modify yours first, you can be my guinea pig . So don't mess it up, lol.
    Good plan. I spent most of the day trying different things. Lots of little gotchas:

    - the brush casings are mounted using bent lugs, which stick out too much on the bottom to allow you to simply glue the board down - I cut a channel in the main board (slightly wider than the brush casing, to allow tweaking) using a Dremel tool

    - the spring pins match up perfectly with the mounting pins, preventing me from just drilling relief holes - I cut the pins off on their own island and will mount them separately in a more convenient place

    - The 2nd brush casings, because of the extra layer of board, were too close for comfort to the commutator crimps. Easy solution - pull the brush casings back (out) a bit, the springs will still push the brushes into the commutator.

    - I finally epoxied the brush casing islands a moment ago and have to wait for the glue to cure. Will wait until tomorrow to deal with the pins.

    After cutting:
    http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6237/img0101d.jpg
    http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4186/img0103uq.jpg

    Glue drying:
    http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/9357/img0105lj.jpg

    pt

    Leave a comment:


  • Matthew Jones
    replied
    5408 is kind of a sluggish diode. I would use a fast one.

    No I am not planning on moving my brush's all. The thing has got just about the same amount of power as stock for around 36 watts, half or more of which I am recovering and reusing.

    I might rewind it and make it bifiliar while firing at each 180 deg point but thats about all I am going to do for now to it.

    Add a generator for sure.

    Heres a peek at the direction I am moving.
    YouTube - Lockridge_Replication.MPG

    One thing I forgot and should have waited till I filmed is the heavy electrete effect from the capacitors. Once the motor is shut of and the the battery is unhooked form the system the caps will recharge to about 40 volt.
    Thats always a nice thing to see.

    Matt
    Last edited by Matthew Jones; 01-24-2011, 12:31 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark
    replied
    I'll have to look, I was running an ultra fast one on the inside when I had the 20awg wire on it and a 1N5408 on the outside, but I'm pretty sure with the 23awg thats on it now I have a 1N5408 on the inside also. Should I put an ultra fast one back on the inside or is the 1N5408 ok.

    Do you plan on moving your brushes or are you just going to leave them. I've been wondering if we even need to worry about the back spike. When the back spike happens the commutator is not touching the brushes so I dont understand why bother with it when we can grab the generated voltage instead and not bother moving the brushes. Your output appears to be better than mine anyway.

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark; 01-26-2011, 08:01 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Matthew Jones
    replied
    Originally posted by Mark View Post
    Not bad Matt. I tried to run my modified motor today at 72 volts and let a little bit of the smoke out . It happened almost immediately so I wont be doing that again.
    The recovery numbers above, are those with the brushes in the stock location, the "generated recovery"? Or have you moved the brushes and that is from the back spike.
    My stock motor runs 3355 rpm's at 900ma so either mine is a little different or your maybe a little tired.
    Mark
    Nope didn't move anything. The motor is a new motor. I might have ran it a few time before when it was wound standard. But t has been sitting a while so the grease in the bearing might be sticky. Who knows.
    If your smoking there is something wrong.
    Did you put a diode on the outgoing side? Whats the number on the diode. May not be up to par. I used a 600 volt 5 amp Ultrafast diode.

    Matt

    Leave a comment:


  • woopy
    replied
    another possibility towards the same goal

    Hi all

    here my testing on a 1 pulse per motor turn

    with very good results

    the motor is radial and the flux is axial, but the aim is the same, to get as low as possible BEMF.
    And it seems to work quite well.

    good luck at all

    Laurent

    YouTube - lockridge test 1

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark
    replied
    Originally posted by pault View Post
    My bad use of words. Yes, I've got bushings. The brush end is held down by a black spring metal disk and swivels if you insert the axle and pull - probably a production trick to allow wider tolerance of fit.

    My commutators taller than a brush, but the extra is "lost" below the 2nd board when I push the armature all the way in with only one spacer.

    pt
    Ok, got ya. Have you fired her up yet or you going to wait till you get the other brushes mounted. I'll let you modify yours first, you can be my guinea pig . So don't mess it up, lol.

    Good luck, Mark

    Leave a comment:

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