Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[T-1000]

http://www.themeasuringsystemofthego...amplifiers.pdf
For some reason I cant edit last post.

It is good technology involving control of magnetic field directly without manipulating current and voiltage on primary coil. In this way it can power much load as transformer can give.

In what we are seeking for is basically focusing magnetic field into single small point(like focusing Sun's light with help of lenses) as for example, Rodin coil does (wonder what will happen if someone actually will make it on ferrite toroid???). From that single point the energy extraction is needed by means of capacitive or inductive secondary. Because electric charge on capacitor plates / generator coils is defined by strength of magnetic field, this is where unexplored area begins...

Here is something interesting I stumbled upon Google search: Pyramid Magnets - Focusing Flux to a Point - YouTube Now if to remember Tesla Cone shaped coils and adopting to pyramid shape.. Wonder how much larger magnetic field strength would be there..?

[T-1000]

Cool.

And now calculate geometric angles in the ring of pyramids on the end of video then read this article: The Great Pyramid: Measurements

You will be shocked...

[Farmhand]

For some reason I can't view Boguslaw's link.

But here is another one True, Reactive, and Apparent power : POWER FACTOR

Bedini uses flyback voltage to charge batteries, not Back emf.

How exactly is reactive power normally wasted ?
It isn't.

The energy discharged from the magnetic field of a coil is not Back emf, it is
forward emf. That is a fact.

I disagree with some conventional explanations of what produces and what
consumes reactive power. In my opinion reactive power is produced by
inductors when the unused energy in the magnetic field is released (not
consumed) if a capacitor is there to take the charge then the capacitor would
take in reactive power and release real power the inductor can both produce
and use (converted) reactive power, the capacitor can store reactive power and provide
real power.

Conventionally, capacitors are considered to generate reactive power and inductors to consume it.

AC power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's an example, If I have an induction motor running with a power factor of
0.80 and it is drawing 100 Watts apparent power then 20 Watts of that is
reactive power if there as there is no power factor correction this 20 watts
reactive power would be returned to the supply, (not wasted or paid for)
now If while the motor was running I turned on a 100 Watt resistive light bulb
in the same area and circuit as the motor the 20 Watts reactive power would
be consumed by the 100 Watt light bulb as part of it's input so the 20 Watts
reactive power never gets returned to the supply and isn't reactive for long.
in this case we pay for it because we use it.

There is a thread on this forum explaining the difference between back emf
and flyback voltage.

Bottom line is the emf from the discharging of the energy from a magnetic
field is regular forward emf, not back emf, the coil discharge is in the same
direction as the applied emf and if the discharge current is through some
inductance the discharge itself is opposed by back emf, if the discharge was
back emf then when discharged through another inductance it would be
opposed by more back emf which makes no sense, back emf cannot be
opposed by more back emf.

The emf produced by the discharge of energy from the magnetic field of a coil
is not (back emf) it is (emf).

The coil is charged by energy from the supply (in spite) of the back emf
opposing it, but the coil is not charged with back emf. The very instant the
applied emf is removed the back emf ceases to exist because there is no
applied emf to oppose. Then when the coil discharges it's energy as emf that
is in turn opposed by back emf due to the inductance of the discharge path.

So in short.
Reactive power is not wasted.
Back emf does not charge batteries.
The emf produced by the energy discharged from the magnetic field of a coil is emf, not back emf.

Cheers

[Solarlab]

General F Y I:

Following are links to several books that may be of great value in the design, development and testing of your Don Smith Energy Devices.

Nikola Tesla, Don Smith, Tariel Kapanadze energy devices are in their infantcy stages and are by no means "cook book." However, once one gains, to some extent at least, an understanding of their underlying technical engineering requirements and techniques they may well become a reliable apparatus similar to that of the early 1900's Spark Gap Radio Transmitters. Fortunately we can draw from the teachings found in past developments that employed similar methods.

Iterative guestimates in hopes of finding the golden solution may not be in the best interest of time nor money and may never achieve even poor results while shotgun patches, based on scattered input and unfounded intuition, are generally non the better.

Think it - study it - do it - analyze it - perfect it - then write about it!

These books will help with the study it part...

"Electricity At High Pressures and Frequencies"
Henry Transtrom 1913 - 247 pages:

inauthor:"Henry L. Transtrom" - Google Search

This book contains much of the detailed technical information and formulas needed to understand Don Smith's energy devices (the engineering stuff Don left out). Read on-line or download free pdf. The list of Illustrations serves as Table of Contents.

Briefly, the book presents: Lines of force, unit of magnetic field, force surrounding conductor, amp-turn; cutting lines-of-force, E.M.F., back e.m.f; ergs, watt, hp; loose, tight coupling; AC generatoin; Inductance, self induction, electromagnetic inertia; explains how to calculate (using only algebra) the interaction of spark gap repitition rate, primary voltage, primary/secondary ratio, etc.. Also includes dielectric, capacity, electric flux, and effects. Then the good stuff; producing High Frequency Currents. Condenser discharge, resonance, effects of spark gap timing, gap spacing, etc..

Around page 174 the discussion becomes quite interesting. For example: .018uF with 1388cm inductor at 1,000,000 cycles, with C potential at 20,000V, "Q = .00036 coulomb ... which can do the work of 3.6 joules" thus at an alteration of 1/2,000,000 sec the average current to discharge .00036 coulombs = 760 amperes or 900000 joules per second, or 900 kilowatts; quote, "so we come to the conclusion that although the energy stored up in the condenser is insignificant the rate of doing work or giving up this energy becomes enormous when given off in a very short space of time." [page 176]

A simple spark gap design is found on page 231, simplified condenser (capacitor) fabrication design follows. After a few pages of bizzare high voltage stuff, the discussion eventually gets back to a technical theme [page 217] with an interesting center tapped resonant coupled air core example. Quarter wave length helix and harmonics are presented near page 221.

Several other interesting "old" books include:

"An Elementary Manual of Radiotelegraphy and Radiotelephony for Students and Operators"
Sir J. A. Fleming 1916 - 360 pages:

An elementary manual of radiotelegraphy and radiotelephony for students and ... - Sir John Ambrose Fleming - Google Books

"The Principles of Electric Wave Telegraphy and Telephony"
Sir J. A. Fleming 1916 - 707 pages [this volume is more technically detailed than the one above] :

John Ambrose Fleming - Google Search

"Wireless Telegraphy"
Jonathan Adolf Wilhelm ZENNECK 1815 - 473 pages

Wireless telegraphy - Jonathan Adolf Wilhelm Zenneck - Google Books


In the first nine chapters Zenneck deals in depth with subject matter required in the study of Smith type energy devices. One particular example of interest is ss90 page 148: Investigation of the Quenching Action in Spark Gaps. He also provides many practical methods and techniques that can be used in testing various components and interactions.

A Table of Contents and Index can be used very effectively to review concepts and brush-up on formulas that have been long forgotten. Some Acrobat programs provide character recognition {Document | recognize Text using OCR} so key word searches can be conducted as required.

It would be too difficult and time consuming to answer the many complex and varied technical questions that arise here; therefore, hopes are that a good number of them can be cleared using the above resources, thus allowing the quest to continue. As is often said "The devil is in the detail."

Good Luck! [Red Green "I'm pulling for ya, we're all in this together"]

Dave

[Solarlab]

Farmhand, thanks. You provide an excellent opportunity to demonstrate an almost perfect example relating to my preceding post:

- click on the "Electricity_at_high_pressures_and_frequencies " book link (open in a new tab or window;

- click on the book to actually open it in the browser;

- on the left hand side where it indicates "Search in this book" [just below the authors name, enter "back e.m.f. then go;

- two pages are referenced, Page 78 and Page 241. Note also that "back e.m.f. is also termed "counter e.m.f.;

- so, re-enter in the search area "counter e.m.f. which yields about 20 references.

- View the boxed text to get an idea of the focus, or, click any page to bring up the book text window. For example: Page 82;

- Note on the right hand side there is a bar with blue patches running down the column, these indicate places within the book where information relating to "counter e.m.f." might be found.

This can be done on most of the "old" books found on Google and, since they are books, they might be more helpful, in context, than a simple quick definition that might be found elsewhere.

These can be/are great tools for the "study it" part... http://www.energeticforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Dave

[boguslaw]

Farmhand

Reactive power is imho nothing more just unused resonant energy. It is momentarily stored in transmission lines and when somebody else is connecting resistive loads it is pulled from those lines and consumed. That person however pay bill to power company not to you who produce this reactive power. When there is nobody there to pull this energy then it heats transmission lines.

Sorry if this sounds as a dumb theory , I'm not in any meaning an expert in electricity....

[T-1000]

@Farmhand
I described collapsing magnetic field not the one what is being created.
In conventional electronics the collapsng fields are used only in chokes and flyback transformers..

[wayne.ct]

Higher frequency is better

... Don recommended a frequency above 20 kHz to get good results, and the higher the frequency the better the result....

I saw the same thing. It seems most experimenters are focused on frequencies from 20kHz to 200kHz which are easy to generate using a 555 timer. My current target is 1-2 MHz and I am deciding details of how to implement. RF technology has advanced quite a bit and I simply don't know enough to adapt it properly.

[mr.clean]

I saw the same thing. It seems most experimenters are focused on frequencies from 20kHz to 200kHz which are easy to generate using a 555 timer. My current target is 1-2 MHz and I am deciding details of how to implement. RF technology has advanced quite a bit and I simply don't know enough to adapt it properly.

yes from going thru Don's pdf's and other material,
when you exceed 20khz the magnetic fields turn into waves, (radio waves) and the skin effect causes the currents to flow mostly on the outsides of the conductor, to me anyway, it seems at that point to make overall length of the conductor (and its self-capacitance) are the primary factors in the frequency of the secondary
and as many know, the skin effect, essentially free from the wires resistance (easily arcs over and ionizes)
one thing to mention is the arcing is a loss, Tesla did it only for visual display.
Actual transmission is best with no arcing.
easily observed when working with this stuff...
watch how a bulb can be lit fully from a Tesla coil...
BUT the trick is...i think... to load the remote, longitudinal receiver... not the transmitter as you see here...

classic Tesla transformer - YouTube

but i find that you can tune to any freq you want, and if the fundamental freq is reached, you will get the resonant effect, BUT of course, faster freq, means it happens ...faster...

[clarence]

source for the same type NST device DON SMITH used in his bonus 1 & 2 video

Hi wayne.ct. I am just starting out in my experimenting with the Don Smith devices, but from reading Don Smith's PDF doc, 'Resonance Energy Methods', and watching some of the Don Smith videos, it would seem that Don recommended a frequency above 20 kHz to get good results, and the higher the frequency the better the result. I believe Don mentioned in one of his talks that you should have at least the primary tuned to resonance, but in the Don Smith 'Bonus 1 & Bonus 2' videos, Don showed a simplified verion of his device in which he said you can drive the primary directly from a high voltage high frequency generator, such as a neon sign transformer (NST) (presumably the high frequency kind, not the 60Hz types), and as long as the secondary length is an even multiple of the primary winding length, that it will still work. I intend to give this a try but I need to order some parts first, as I don't have a high frequency NST and a few other parts I would need to try that.

Without parallel capacitors across the primary and/or secondary winding for resonance tuning, I would have to wonder what kind of performance the device would give, but this is what Don Smith suggested in the 'bonus' videos. So, that is one way to try to simplifiy the setup, according to Don Smith. Mr. Clean here has done lots of experimenting with the Don Smith type devices so he might be able to give some tips...

Hello Level & ALL,

clarence here,

attached is a snip of the source information for the same type of NST don used in his bonus 1 & 2 video. this is the good type that does NOT have the internal ground fault modification which makes the rest of the solid state electronic NSTs useless for Don Smith type builds. this manufactrer I guess finally got the word that there was a definite market for the old original style NST design and started includeing them in his listings. this should help you in your search to stay with the specifics that don mentioned for you builds.

LOL - If I may be of info service to anyone in any manner just let me know, best regards as always, mike, onward!

[janost]

Farmhand

Reactive power is imho nothing more just unused resonant energy. It is momentarily stored in transmission lines and when somebody else is connecting resistive loads it is pulled from those lines and consumed. That person however pay bill to power company not to you who produce this reactive power. When there is nobody there to pull this energy then it heats transmission lines.

Sorry if this sounds as a dumb theory , I'm not in any meaning an expert in electricity....

This is so much true.
I've seen this myself with a capacitor on the secondary tuned to resonance.

Like you do with a PFC.

Without capacitor the input was 10.6v into the transformer giving an output of 105v.
With the capacitor the input climbed to 12v and the output to 120v.

But more interesting is that the consumed current went bellow 1mA at the input.

I just need to figure out how to tapp this flywheel

[gyula]

This is so much true.
....
But more interesting is that the consumed current went bellow 1mA at the input.

I just need to figure out how to tapp this flywheel

Hi janost,

I think in the so called rotoverter setup (Hector Perez Torres) you can find that the tuning capacitor is split into smaller parts and these can be loaded to a certain limit to utilize the 'excess'... sounds like a kind of capacitive matching of an LC tank to a moderate load. He showed a formula in what ratio the capacitors are to be split if you search for his name and the word rotoverter.

Gyula

[janost]

Hi janost,

I think in the so called rotoverter setup (Hector Perez Torres) you can find that the tuning capacitor is split into smaller parts and these can be loaded to a certain limit to utilize the 'excess'... sounds like a kind of capacitive matching of an LC tank to a moderate load. He showed a formula in what ratio the capacitors are to be split if you search for his name and the word rotoverter.

Gyula

The thing is that it is the secondary that has the capacitor.
if you touch it you kill the resonance.

But as the resonance is on the secondary it gets transformed back down to the primary with multiplied current and feed back to the source.

That's what makes the low current draw.

[Dave45]

Tune resonance to secondary and load
Oscilloscope Tuning a Tesla Coil for Resonance

[gyula]

The thing is that it is the secondary that has the capacitor.
if you touch it you kill the resonance.

But as the resonance is on the secondary it gets transformed back down to the primary with multiplied current and feed back to the source.

That's what makes the low current draw.

yes, that is ok.