Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[Patrick Kelly]

Zilano document

The design document is attached here. I downloaded it a month ago and have no idea where the link is in this forum.

Patrick

[JohnStone]

The design document is attached here. I downloaded it a month ago and have no idea where the link is in this forum.

Patrick

Thanks Patrick !
You are right. The circuit you referred to is of the same idea. So my last post is true: It needs to be explored!

Suffitient theory in my brain now Thanks for all sharing!
I retract for experiments building additional types of HV PSUs and coils first.
rgds John

[Slovenia]

Thanks!!

Thanks Mr. Clean for sharing this!!

just drive your primary like a tesla coil.....tried, tested, and true.

Tesla coils have been around for hmmm... a little while and the idea is to oscillate to meet the SECONDARY resonant freq.

Say your primary is 30khz on the screen, with building wave form

...SO... would Burnet worry about changing L1 cap and freq if L2 was not reacting??

NO,.... we ALREADY have our building wave, and freq we want to use.

So using smith/burnet(tesla) rules all together, and lets go by length for final tune
(like tuning a guitar string on 5th fret and next open string)

WATCH THIS: DRASTIC: TUNING ON THE FLY

DRASTIC Tuning on the fly - YouTube

and here is his ADJUSTABLE MOTORIZED setup for adjusting L1 TAP

tapper.MPG - YouTube

NOTICE HE DIDNT CHANGE CAPACITANCE OR FREQ, everything is already as you want it, just L1 length
**We adjust the L1 TAP to find the 1/4 length tune, and make sure the capacitance matches inductance and freq. (for TCs its topload, here its L2 tank)

LOOKS LIKE DONS BONUS VID IS RIGHT, L2 WILL COPY L1, BUT THEY NEED TO BE 1/4 LENGTH OR EVEN MULTIPLE OF THAT TO COMMUNICATE

AND BY THE SAME RULE... COULD ALSO BE X4 LONGER IF YOU WANT TO STEP DOWN

[Duncan]

This post may start a revolution

I believe this is probably the most important post I will ever make ,, If I am correct in what I see It could be the most important single post ever made! So please try and digest what I have written and visualise it!

John first let me Thank you very much for being prepared to think and then post regarding some thing as simple as a bell, most don’t and would not for fear of appearing foolish, However the bell sketch you drew would not let me rest in peace, as I explained I am lashing one of these circuits together and actually being confronted with building a thing alters the “mindset” (coincidently the other neon is there on the other end of the cap out of shot Patrick) anyway as I was saying throwing bits together alters the thought process and so the Diode arrangement didn't bother me at all I simply did as Patrick suggested and reversed one (suck it and see) however John I can see why sitting and thinking about it would be a problem (It was for me too).Capacitors and resistors are made in sets of preferred values really so that within the tolerances of the components the engineer can in practice .and with a little trial and error get to pretty much any desired value,(mix and match) look at the value selected for the capacitor in this case ...874Nf what sort of a preferred value is that? Its a Nightmare I was wondering why I could not simply construct the coil so that it would resonate with whatever capacitor I wished,Why didn't this guy just go with the nearest preferred values of 820Nf or 900Nf anyway the answer is he could not! Thinking of your Bell example John and the reason why that capacitor has to be so very accurate or tuned as carefully as Mr Clean is doing has told me exactly how this machine is working
The maths is beyond me but I'll draw the mental picture for you with regards to your bell!
Every one can then picture what is happening and with a bit of luck one or two of the scribblers can get at it and bring all of ZZZZs work out in its full glory!! and Slovenea's hard work will pay off in spades
This feels so right John …. Here we go .. I have pointed out the two resonant points one at hertzian frequency and one at linear wave (Tesla frequency) if you were operating a radio transmitter the one resonant point would give no standing wave and the other would give you a full standing wave.
As far as your bell is concerned I drew two absolute conditions in order to represent this a/ a full standing wave (a solid bell rope) and b/ no standing wave (a flexible rope and a Sine wave) what I neglected to consider was there is actually every possible state between totally flexible and effectively a solid rope. In other words the circuit can be as malleable as we want it to be and so can our bell rope!
Let me take you back just a couple of years now John to your School days, you have just been taken swimming, you were either a bit of a bully or perhaps bullied or maybe like most kids a bit of both , however at sometime and you have probably been on both ends of it .. some one will have flicked you with the towel .. The action of a whip or flail “crack” a tiny input of energy at one end a thundering noisy release of correctly timed power at the other .. Can you imagine the clatter its going to give your bell now John? Now The principle and the working concept is in place where are the scribblers? The towel at the swimming baths those few years ago went through the sound barrier what barrier we cross here I can only guess --- I do know I’ve just crossed an understanding barrier I really do hope you all have as well! the Bessler wheel also now makes perfect sense .. the Maths of the flail!!! remind you of anything http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...hip_effect.png

[Duncan]

There used to be quite a long and informed thesis on Wiki all about the Bull whip and its effects I can't find it any more, I guess if I take my computer to bits and go through all my old Hard drives I may come up with it. Mean while perhaps any one who comes across any scholarly work on the whip and its action please post.

[soundiceuk]

In my question to theoldscientist about inductance and capacitance he answered with the following. I thought it might be useful to some:

"The subject is well explained in many forums and scientific papers.
To show you the difference look at my second video of radiant energy. Dollard in his papers is explaining it very simple. Inductance. The further the windings apart the higher the inductance. The closer the windings the more capacitance. A capacitor is the opposite of an inductor. Under certain frequency both behave the same resistance. WE call it impedance for inductor or admittance for capacitors. The value is negative for capacitors. You can use them in the all mighty RLC network. Have a look at my tutorial page.
RF Inductance Calculator - HAMwaves.com
Scroll down to negative inductance coil value. It will show you a Tesla coil and explain why.

There are a couple of videos from Eric Dollard where he shows the frequency difference. It is fairly simple once you understand the relationship. The execution is difficult."



Very good bell analogy Duncan and JohnStone. Top Bannana!!!

[Patrick Kelly]

Capacitor type

Capacitors and resistors are made in sets of preferred values really so that within the tolerances of the components the engineer can in practice .and with a little trial and error get to pretty much any desired value,(mix and match) look at the value selected for the capacitor in this case ...874Nf what sort of a preferred value is that?

Hi Duncan,

My apologies for not writing it on the circuit diagram, but as it says in the video, the 874 nF capacitor is a capacitor out of a microwave oven.

Another approach is to connect the nearest 'standard capacitor' to the calculated capacitor value, across the primary of the resonant transformer and then adjust the frequency of the input signal slightly to get the exact resonant match.

Patrick

[Duncan]

Hi Duncan,

My apologies for not writing it on the circuit diagram, but as it says in the video, the 874 nF capacitor is a capacitor out of a microwave oven.

Another approach is to connect the nearest 'standard capacitor' to the calculated capacitor value, across the primary of the resonant transformer and then adjust the frequency of the input signal slightly to get the exact resonant match.

Patrick

No sweat Patrick ..Its clearly shown on the video I simply forgot .. I have found an old microwave cap in the garage but rated 1.02 uf I'll throw that in and see what transpires .. lucky accident then that I started thinking along the lines above good .. Its filled in a lot of gaps .. the trouble is any technical information on whip action seems to have been removed from the net or else I'm sure a working mathematical model could quickly be made
best wishes Duncan

[FRC]

Sorry

Hi Duncan,

My apologies for not writing it on the circuit diagram, but as it says in the video, the 874 nF capacitor is a capacitor out of a microwave oven.

Another approach is to connect the nearest 'standard capacitor' to the calculated capacitor value, across the primary of the resonant transformer and then adjust the frequency of the input signal slightly to get the exact resonant match.

Patrick

No sweat Patrick ..Its clearly shown on the video I simply forgot .. I have found an old microwave cap in the garage but rated 1.02 uf I'll throw that in and see what transpires .. lucky accident then that I started thinking along the lines above good .. Its filled in a lot of gaps .. the trouble is any technical information on whip action seems to have been removed from the net or else I'm sure a working mathematical model could quickly be made
best wishes Duncan

Sorry, I guess I have not been following close enough. Can someone tell me
which video is being refered to in the last few posts ?

George

[Duncan]

Hi Patrick @ John Just to show the general concept of this thing works .. although I have obviously got a lot of difficult buggering about to find a resonant spot https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-I...0/DSCF0164.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-x...0/DSCF0165.JPG

but the NST the NST cap the little Neons ect all seem to do there thing .. IMHO however the sytem Mr clean has put together isd a better option unless a rapid way of getting to the resonant point occurs to me

[Patrick Kelly]

Video link

Sorry, I guess I have not been following close enough. Can someone tell me
which video is being refered to in the last few posts ?

George

Hi George,

The post is number 2689 on page 90 and the video link is Don Smith Quick Mockup Primary - YouTube


Patrick

[Duncan]

anyone feel like a bit of number punching ?

Anyone in the mood for checking the approximate winding I need to get to resonance with this fancy calculator thing RF Inductance Calculator - HAMwaves.com Soundiceuk has been kind enough to post I am winding on PVC water pipe OD 35mm – I am winding close coupled with 1mm2 cable stripped out of domestic house wire another calculator thing has given the Dia as 1.128mm. .the nominal frequency of the NST is 25Khz the MOT cap I am using is 1.02uf
I make that some where about 77 turns would some one like to have a hack at it too and see if they get about the same please there's going to be a bit of +/- but I'd like to get in the right area Ive got 70 turns on it so far taking up 160mm

[soundiceuk]

Hi Patrick @ John Just to show the general concept of this thing works .. although I have obviously got a lot of difficult buggering about to find a resonant spot https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-I...0/DSCF0164.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-x...0/DSCF0165.JPG

but the NST the NST cap the little Neons ect all seem to do there thing .. IMHO however the sytem Mr clean has put together isd a better option unless a rapid way of getting to the resonant point occurs to me

What does the scope shot signify?

Here are some links that contain some useful information:

Javascript MMC designer

Tesla Coil Design, Construction and Operation Guide

TeslaMap - Tesla Coil Design Program

Eastern Voltage Research - DRSSTC Books

http://www.easternvoltageresearch.co...stcpreview.pdf

[FRC]

Thanks Patrick

Thanks for reposting the link Patrick.

George

[Duncan]

nothing very much only that the basic circuit is working and transfering from L! to L2 ,, wont do anything interesting until some sort of resonance is in place .. thats just whats coming out of the NST .. If I can find either resonant point it should of course turn into a perfect sine wave.