Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[quantumuppercut]

Quantum
I am discussing this here also as a possible test procedure for these devices!!

Thanks
Chet

I think this procedure is adequate. However, the unit KWH is energy. If in 14 min you used 36KJ, then it is indeed 60% efficient.

[Duncan]

Mmm Like you I am not familier with this type of watt/meter I have never owed one .. still I see your point, However if you consider your house meter it has no time relationship involved,It simply ratchets up as more energy is consumed ,& so the units could be watt/seconds for instance , I guess KWH are just convenient sized numbers. and that is how I viewed Ramsets Watt meter
In practice the domestic House KWh meter has a voltage coil (220v in europe)
and really the only variable is current. The "KW and hours" bit then being a design paramaters of the meter itself that is reasonably easy to electrically relate to.
Really there is no reason why the meter could not be made to record BTUs for instance or the gas meter to record Kwh ... anyway I stand to be corrected!
C.O.P 4.83 ??? Wow shhhhhh Ramset white coats will visit.
as for using it as a real measurement tool I quess controlled heat boxes and circulation would have to be considered .. not as easy as it sounds!

[ewizard]

Ramset, I'm skimming here so I may have missed some things but consider that a light bulb is primarily intended to put out power in the visible spectrum and heat is only a part of what is radiated from it. The visible radiation of energy will not show up as heat and you may want to consider measuring the energy radiated in the visible spectrum also to add to your power output calculations. I'm not sure how you would do this other than with solar panels and those only are a max of about 20% efficient so you might come up with a rough estimate of how much power is put out in the visible spectrum that way.

Another thought here too if you are simply trying to get some numbers on how much energy is used to heat water. Use one of those small coffee cup heating elements you can get for a couple bucks. I'm talking about the kind that hangs over the cup and sits directly in the water. No wasted energy in light from those. I am not sure if these are still in dollar stores but this is what I'm talking about : Immersion water heater

[JohnStone]

Ramset, I'm skimming here so I may have missed some things but consider that a light bulb is primarily intended to put out power in the visible spectrum and heat is only a part of what is radiated from it. The visible radiation of energy will not show up as heat and you may want to consider measuring the energy radiated in the visible spectrum also to add to your power output calculations. I'm not sure how you would do this other than with solar panels and those only are a max of about 20% efficient so you might come up with a rough estimate of how much power is put out in the visible spectrum that way.

Another thought here too if you are simply trying to get some numbers on how much energy is used to heat water. Use one of those small coffee cup heating elements you can get for a couple bucks. I'm talking about the kind that hangs over the cup and sits directly in the water. No wasted energy in light from those. I am not sure if these are still in dollar stores but this is what I'm talking about : Immersion water heater

efficiency (source Wikipedia) less than steam engine (max. 8%)
40 W tungsten incandescent 1.9%
60 W tungsten incandescent 2.1%
100 W tungsten incandescent 2.6%
T12 tube with magnetic ballast 9%
9�32 W compact fluorescent 8�11.45%
T8 tube with electronic ballast 12�15%
PL-S 11 W U-tube, excluding ballast loss 12%

[RAMSET]

My take on this

Correct me if I'm wrong

Incandescent bulbs are only 1 to 2.6 % efficient as far as the work they do
"providing light" versus the power consumed ?

Am I understanding this Correctly?

John S quote:

efficiency (source Wikipedia) less than steam engine (max. 8%)
40 W tungsten incandescent 1.9%
60 W tungsten incandescent 2.1%
100 W tungsten incandescent 2.6%
T12 tube with magnetic ballast 9%
9�32 W compact fluorescent 8�11.45%
T8 tube with electronic ballast 12�15%
PL-S 11 W U-tube, excluding ballast loss 12%

------------------------------
So they mostly make Heat ??
doesn't seem like a big enough issue to stop the test protocol??
we can figure these small "Light Losses" into the math??

Or do I have this all wrong??

Please comment!

[JohnStone]

Correct me if I'm wrong

Incandescent bulbs are only 1 to 2.6 % efficient as far as the work they do
"providing light" versus the power consumed ?

Am I understanding this Correctly?

John S quote:

efficiency (source Wikipedia) less than steam engine (max. 8%)
40 W tungsten incandescent 1.9%
60 W tungsten incandescent 2.1%
100 W tungsten incandescent 2.6%
T12 tube with magnetic ballast 9%
9�32 W compact fluorescent 8�11.45%
T8 tube with electronic ballast 12�15%
PL-S 11 W U-tube, excluding ballast loss 12%

------------------------------
So they mostly make Heat ??
doesn't seem like a big enough issue to stop the test protocol??
we can figure these small "Light Losses" into the math??

Or do I have this all wrong??

Please comment!

Hi RAMSET,
you are right. The incandescent bulbs have a very low efficiency. Low Watt lower efficiency. Higher Watt somewat better. It will never exeed 5% or 8%.
It gets worse:
1/3 loss at your supplier
1/3 loss at distribution
1/3 arrive at your bulb
So your 2.4% efficiency above converts to 0.8% real light and 99.2% losses. A good reason for lokal OU!

Suggestion:
For quick tests you can mount a bulb in a can (tall & black painted inside preferred) and a small solar cell at bottom (pocket calculator). The cell delivers a quite linear short circuit current regarding light intensity (DMM �A). Unfortunately the bulb is not linear but this does not matter.

Calibration:
Supply the bulb with various DC voltages and measure the amps and �A. Draw a graph (DC-power vs. �A). Later on you can instantly read the real true RMS power (up to high frequencies and crest factors) by measuring the � amps.

Advantages:

• simple
• quick
• all mjor errors deleted except your calibration error and �A reading
• true RMS

Drawbacks:

• It is important to have short measuring cycles in order to not heat the solar cell.
• The calibration is true for this special calibrated bulb only. New bulb -> new calibration.
• The graph will show you at what minimum power (begin of extreme unlinearity) you should use another low power bulb setup.
• Halogenbulbs preferred because they will not easily be modulated by the supply frequency

[ewizard]

I think what John is saying is that there may be a lot more heat energy coming off the bulb than visible light energy so I may be wrong in assuming that there was a worthwhile amount of energy in the visible spectrum that needs to be taken into account. Either way if you just want to measure the most direct way of seeing how much energy it takes to heat water from one temp. to another higher temp I'd suggest the immersion water heating element as being more accurate than a light bulb.

[bbem]

MoPoZcO

Transistor oscillator on Don Smith circuit:
Mopozco's Channel - YouTube

[JohnStone]

I think what John is saying is that there may be a lot more heat energy coming off the bulb than visible light energy so I may be wrong in assuming that there was a worthwhile amount of energy in the visible spectrum that needs to be taken into account. Either way if you just want to measure the most direct way of seeing how much energy it takes to heat water from one temp. to another higher temp I'd suggest the immersion water heating element as being more accurate than a light bulb.

Hi,
you are right - the animal we want to have and measure is energy = heat. The conventional electrical energy is definied by the aibility to produce heat. So far OK.
Unfortunately the direct calorimetric measurements are very difficult to perform and suffer of a lot of varaying errors.(dissipation in the water, light emitting, heat loss due to insulation, time to stabilize vs. heat input, temperature measurement itself ....). These factors are very difficult to handle by mere mortals - like us! Measurements seem not to be comparable at all.

Therefore my suggestion to overcome most of the problems above.

My suggestion relates to the fact that a certain light intensitiy of a bulb is related directly to a corresponding input power and heat dissipation or vice versa. It is not a linear behavior but if you have a graph for your setup you can overcome the unlinearity.

If you generate the graph conforming to my setup and calbration procedure you get a quite good and controllable measurement. Youe delete all major inaccuracies by measuring the 2.5% light artifact only (fast, quite precise). My assumption ist that an accuraacy of better 10% is achievable.
So your readings in �-amps tell you via the graph exactly what corresponding input power is driving just now this reading.

It is essential to perform your experiments and tests with another bulb and load the measurement setup for short moments only in order do prevent inaccuracies by heat. (same when calibrating)

I am prepared with this setp and will use it as soon I have some replications worth to measure.
rgds John

[JohnStone]

Transistor oscillator on Don Smith circuit:
Mopozco's Channel - YouTube

Thanks for posting.
Mmmm - spark gap driven by AC out of a kind of NST replication. All trusty sources (zilano, utkin, tesla...) say we need DC spark. I am not an expert but I believe in those sources.
I'd like to see the output with spark shorted out and with diodes in order to compare.
rgds John

[jharmon]

RF Power Amplifiers...

@JohnStone
Have been reading some Utkin. Good stuff. Must spend more time with it, but offers many possible answers. I'm still working out the E X B field dynamics of the bifilar coil with the plate capacitor in the middle in my head.

I think you advised to look @ audio amplifiers. Most audio amplifiers are rated for 20hz-20khz or so. But what does that mean? They can't react faster than 20khz? Can't reproduce the signal above that frequency? Or can't reproduce with acceptable distortion? The human ear is only capable of hearing frequencies up to around 20khz, so maybe they just don't bother to publish specifications above and beyond this. I'm sure some systems do better at higher frequencies than others..

Anyway. I guess I will only know when I hook the HI-FI up to the oscilloscope with the signal generator.

Lot's of things to try and learn. :-)

I did begin to wonder if there exist "POWER AMPLIFIERS" that are designed to work above the audio spectrum. I searched for "RF POWER AMPLIFIERS" on eBay. Here's an example of what I found...

Amplifier Research 50A15 50 Watt broadband RF Power Amplifier covering the range | eBay

But this is a 3k device!!! What do you think something like this is for?

I found these interesting little units from RMCybernetics.

Cyber Circuits - Pulse Generators - RMCybernetics Shop

They are on the way. :-)


J

[JohnStone]

@JohnStone
Have been reading some Utkin. Good stuff. Must spend more time with it, but offers many possible answers. I'm still working out the E X B field dynamics of the bifilar coil with the plate capacitor in the middle in my head.

I think you advised to look @ audio amplifiers. Most audio amplifiers are rated for 20hz-20khz or so. But what does that mean? They can't react faster than 20khz? Can't reproduce the signal above that frequency? Or can't reproduce with acceptable distortion? The human ear is only capable of hearing frequencies up to around 20khz, so maybe they just don't bother to publish specifications above and beyond this. I'm sure some systems do better at higher frequencies than others..

Anyway. I guess I will only know when I hook the HI-FI up to the oscilloscope with the signal generator.

Lot's of things to try and learn. :-)

I did begin to wonder if there exist "POWER AMPLIFIERS" that are designed to work above the audio spectrum. I searched for "RF POWER AMPLIFIERS" on eBay. Here's an example of what I found...

Amplifier Research 50A15 50 Watt broadband RF Power Amplifier covering the range | eBay

But this is a 3k device!!! What do you think something like this is for?

I found these interesting little units from RMCybernetics.

Cyber Circuits - Pulse Generators - RMCybernetics Shop

They are on the way. :-)

J

Hi Jharmon,
if you own an higer grade audioamplifier it is worth to try it. But please note that their cutoff frequency relates to sine signal. Square singnal up to 1/3 of cutoff frequency. At 1/2 of cutoff frequency you get a sine out of square.

If you intend to buy an amplifier then the "rmcybernetics.com" seem to be quite interesting. But please do not expect to get steep edges at cutoff frequency. But this will be no issue if you drive inuctive loads.
rgds John

[Guruji]

Don' circuit

Anyone had success on Don's Circuit?

[JohnStone]

Anyone had success on Don's Circuit?

Not yet. Torturting my brain regarding Utkin and Zilano. Many conformities. I am too blind in order to find and understand the true content. I will do some of those experiments. Nobody in the net discussing Utkin. Maybe in Russian area. But we are excluded because of the language barrier.
rgds John

[a.king21]

This guy on the Russian forum claims a couple of KW out

Anyone had success on Don's Circuit?

This guy on the Russian forum claims success. I'VE ATTEMPTED TO PASTE THE PDF but it won't do pics. Anyway there are links you can check.:
You can also get the pdf for the circuit diagram.

The instruction on assembly of the Generator of free energy.
ЧАСТЬ1 Accessories and materials
1) the High-voltage power supply 3000В 100 � 200 вт.
It is possible to apply transformers to neon lamps, or any similar radioamateur designs with high EFFICIENCY of transformation and stabilization of a target current.
Possible version of execution of converter TVS
2) High-frequency resonant system L1/L2
Coil L1 is wound by a high-quality audiocable сеченирем 6-10 мм2, or make-it-yourself литцендратом соответсвующего sections. Rough length with conclusions received литцендрата (audiocable) � roughly 2 meters.
Winding is made on канлизационной to a pipe ф 50мм, quantity of coils 4-5 (left навивка).
The remained conclusions of the coil not брезаем, and it is deduced through the middle of a pipe for connection to an arrester and condensers of a contour первички.
Possible version of execution:
Secondary coil L2 of a resonant contour is carried out naked copper (it is desirable silvered, is worse луженым) by a wire in diameter of 2-3 mm. Diameter навивки secondary катушки-nearby 75мм. The coil is carried out with tap from the middle. Both half have one direction навивки (clockwise, i.e. right).
Rough number of coils катушки-2х16, 2х18 coils. The coil is mandatory for executing an air version with fastenings in apertures 3-4 locating планок.
Fastening котущек should not suppose a drain выокочастотных high-voltage charges on any other parts of the diagram and a design. Deduce coils are clamped in клемные колодки placed on the assembly panel for дольнейшего connections of other elements of the diagram. A parity of lengths of wires of coils.
Possible version of execution вториной coils:
High-voltage diodes (columns)
It is possible to apply purchased, or to make independently.
Diodes of each shoulder should have face value on a current not less than 10 amperes at a return pressure 25-30 киловольт
Probably parallel connection of several columns for maintenance of a required current.
Version of the high-voltage diode:
Planimetric condensers (for coils L1, L2)
Конденысатор circuits первички gets out on working непряжение not less than 4 киловольт, the capacity of the condenser depends on working frequency of a secondary contour (at the author 28 нанофарад at resonant frequency 600 килогерц). The condenser should have the minimal dielectric losses and hold солиную capacity (квар)
The compound battery of condensers and more low-power is usually typed. The optimal types конденсакторов�
- к78-2, к78-15, к78-25, or others similar capable well to maintain pulse currents of the category.
- The condenser вторички.
It is better to apply condensers specified above types but with a pressure not less than 10 киловольт. Condensers of types КВИ-3, and still лучше-К15-у2 work perfectly.
Secondary катущка with capacity of the condenser shape a resonant contour. Capacity of the condenser вторички заыисит from required resonant frequency (at the author � the condenser кви3 10 кв 2200 picofarads)..
Photo of the condenser вторички:
High-frequency рекуперационный a throttle with the minimal through passage capacity
Олриентировочная inductance of a throttle 100 200 микрогенри. Versions with sectioning обмоткок are possible. Diameter провода-1,5-2мм in enamel изолиции.
Photo of a version of a throttle:
The throttle is wound on пхв оправке 50-75мм.
The battery of storage condensers
It is possible to apply condensers a pressure 5-15 кв in the general capacity in area 2 мкф.
Any types маслонаполненных condensers of types к41-1, к75-53 and other approach..
The diagram of the converter:
Diodes VD1, VD2 � high-voltage columns.
Diode VD5-ультрафаст 1200 вольт30-150 ampere.
Дроссе5ль L3 Luba with not closed magnetic core a wire (trunk) not less 6мм2, индуктивостью 1-5 миллигенри..
Load (the inverter or the motor of a direct current) to apply with a low entrance pressure of 12-110 volt (нирже the pressure � is more energy on an output)
Extension follows �
At assembly and experiments do not forget about the Safety precautions at work on pressure more than 1000 Volt.
The constant link for uploading an original file:
http://www.001-lab.com/001lab/index....downfile&id=91
Links on video:
Доска и турбина.avi - YouTube #
ДВИЖОК ПОСТОЯННОГО ТОКА И ДОСКА.avi - YouTube
Доска Смита и двигатель 2 - YouTube

Cheers H