Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[Jacqui]

Hi Kenssurplus ,

Thanks for your reply , yeah that's the one but I find it's strange that it does not appear on the threads list .
I wonder if it's still active . I'll stick something on it and see if I get a response .
If anyone has replicated this experiment , have you achieved similar results as that of Jean - Louis ?

Thanks again .

[level]

Hi,

I just posted update on Kapanadze Cousin - DALLY FREE ENERGY if anyone was interested on Dally device. This also somewhat relates on D. Smith resonant flip flop circuits. The idea there is to have one additional coil inside of air core with capacitor and is connected in series to secondary coil so it freely oscillates on resonance. And the input to primary coil (which is also LC circuit on same resonant frequency) is switched off right before load starts affecting input. Perhaps this is what everyone is looking for...?

Interesting. I have been playing around with similar approaches, and I do see a boost in output power with a somewhat similar sort of coil arrangement, but I have not seen over unity. In the videos, with input and output power measurements being that close, it may well not be over unity, as he doesn't really show much detail in regards to making power measurements. It's an interesting coil arrangement though for sure. Worth doing some experimenting with. Thanks for posting it.

[Farmhand]

I have a question about the 1/4 wave primary coil relation to the secondary coil. Don used the step-up type 1:4 ... we want the step-down type 4:1.

The type of coil Zilano suggested is a "Reverse Tesla coil"
If we want the Reverse coils do we have the 1/4 wave at the secondary coils or at the primary?

Lets say Reverse coils: L1 primary 60 turns and L2 secondary bifilar 10 turns CW and 10 turns CCW back to back ?? 2 inch diameter PVC for primary and 3 inch PVC tube for secondary.

For example...

L1: 2 * PI * 2 * 60 = 753.98 inches /12 = 62.831 feet [(247/62.831 = 4MHz) 1/4 wave or 16MHz full wave!!!]
L2: 2 * PI * 3 * "L2 turns" = 753.98 /4 [<---4??? 64MHz ???]
"L2 turns" = 10

FREQUENCY & WAVELENGTH CALCULATOR

How to calculate the self resonance frequency of the coils?
The inner space between the L2 windings change the capacitance and inductance...and the inductance of extra connected wires to the coils will also change the resonance frequency, are the caps always needed?

Br,
Cognito

Hi Cognito, You'll want a 1/4 wave length structure on both primary and secondary, but it can depend on grounding points etc. I'll try to make sense.

If you could make a quick sketch of how you intend to connect the arrangement we can work it out.

But basically if the 60 turn coil is taking the input it's the primary, will be
actually connected to the ground ? A point on grounds, try to use a good
ground point (deep stake or underground metal pipe or such not the house ground).

And the two 10 turn coils will be the secondaries, will they be ground connected and where ?

This calculator can tell you the frequency and self capacitance, self
inductance, wire length and such things for a single layer close wound
solenoid. But you'll need to use it unconventionally.

OLTC Calculator

If you use just the top section for the secondary and input the coil
dimensions then adjust for your wire length and turns so that it matches your
coil it's fairly close, to see more data you'll need to input a value for the
toroid and the primary. I can make a screen shot of a filled in page for your
coil if you have trouble it took me a while to work out how to use it well.

If your turns are spaced it will increase the res frequency and reduce the self
capacitance and inductance. That calculator wont deal with spaced coils,
that has to be estimated or calculated or found by trial and error. But any
spacing will raise the res frequency from what the calculator says.

Resonance is very important for a good output. It is wise to get a good feel of
how to manipulate it to achieve your goals.

I prefer this frequency wire length calculator, but these will only give the
natural res frequency for the wire itself, when wound in a coil it's different as
you are aware. That's where the calculator above comes in it will tell you the
actual frequency of the wound coil, and other data.

Put the frequency in the top and select the 1/4 WL button then look at the
1/4 WL wire length, then adjust the initial frequency value input to get the
wire length ect.

Frequency Wavelength Calculator

Any hand drawn sketch or paint diagram is ok, I find it quicker with a pencil
and paper, then photograph it to upload.

62 feet for a 1/4 W L resonant frequency of about 4 mHz is correct, I work in
metric mainly but imperial is ok. Natural for wire length, not real.

If your primaries have 15 feet each and grounded by the center tap then
each one will have a resonant frequency of about 16 mHz. Natural for wire
length not real.

Try experimenting with the OLTC calculator, it can give a lot of valuable data. I'll check back when I can.

Cheers

[janost]

I noticed something very interesting yesterday.

I run my aircore mosfet JT on a 6v batt and measured from -batt to the drain of the mosfet pulses with a peak of 20v.

I connected an Avramenko plug with a 5.6uF cap to the drain and voila, it charged to 7.5v

Why? The output doesnt look very raidant on the scope.
But still it works

[zolgar]

The bipolar transisor array will cause a gain in output as well. The gain of source to drain on a mosfet sent into the base of a load switching transistor - coil arrangement amplifies the signal, and is possibly the reason for your measurement.

[mr.clean]

The calculation of primary and secondary resonance should confirm the output of a circuit designed to resonate such as the ZVS driver, correct?

Presented here is a driver from a video entitled 'Spark-Gap Generator (SSG)'
There are no measurements given for wattage. The input states it is 110 VAC, so perhaps it can tie in with one of the toroidal generators.

hi buddy, yes Igor's SGG is very cool, but he has himself said that it was underunity, and the result was the same with and without the special coil.

Meaning the coil had no effect, and the MOT transformer was drawing a lot.

there are others working on JLNs kapagen are doing the same thing (applying a lot of power in)
i think when we find 'it' (Kapanade effect), it will take a minimum of power (9v pulse), and ALL the lights will come alive.
But we need more first hand advice, it could be a lifetime to figure out unless Kapanadze simply tells us... or Eric Dollard builds an american version
ive got my money on the second one (litteraly)

We raised 33,000 for Eric, and everyday equipment from all over the country comes in for him by peolpe like us, he has a place now, and is building, how awesome.

[mr.clean]

Hi Cognito, You'll want a 1/4 wave length structure on both primary and secondary, but it can depend on grounding points etc. I'll try to make sense.

If you could make a quick sketch of how you intend to connect the arrangement we can work it out.

But basically if the 60 turn coil is taking the input it's the primary, will be
actually connected to the ground ? A point on grounds, try to use a good
ground point (deep stake or underground metal pipe or such not the house ground).

And the two 10 turn coils will be the secondaries, will they be ground connected and where ?

This calculator can tell you the frequency and self capacitance, self
inductance, wire length and such things for a single layer close wound
solenoid. But you'll need to use it unconventionally.

OLTC Calculator

If you use just the top section for the secondary and input the coil
dimensions then adjust for your wire length and turns so that it matches your
coil it's fairly close, to see more data you'll need to input a value for the
toroid and the primary. I can make a screen shot of a filled in page for your
coil if you have trouble it took me a while to work out how to use it well.

If your turns are spaced it will increase the res frequency and reduce the self
capacitance and inductance. That calculator wont deal with spaced coils,
that has to be estimated or calculated or found by trial and error. But any
spacing will raise the res frequency from what the calculator says.

Resonance is very important for a good output. It is wise to get a good feel of
how to manipulate it to achieve your goals.

I prefer this frequency wire length calculator, but these will only give the
natural res frequency for the wire itself, when wound in a coil it's different as
you are aware. That's where the calculator above comes in it will tell you the
actual frequency of the wound coil, and other data.

Put the frequency in the top and select the 1/4 WL button then look at the
1/4 WL wire length, then adjust the initial frequency value input to get the
wire length ect.

Frequency Wavelength Calculator

Any hand drawn sketch or paint diagram is ok, I find it quicker with a pencil
and paper, then photograph it to upload.

62 feet for a 1/4 W L resonant frequency of about 4 mHz is correct, I work in
metric mainly but imperial is ok. Natural for wire length, not real.

If your primaries have 15 feet each and grounded by the center tap then
each one will have a resonant frequency of about 16 mHz. Natural for wire
length not real.

Try experimenting with the OLTC calculator, it can give a lot of valuable data. I'll check back when I can.

Cheers

that was excellent info!

[janost]

The bipolar transisor array will cause a gain in output as well. The gain of source to drain on a mosfet sent into the base of a load switching transistor - coil arrangement amplifies the signal, and is possibly the reason for your measurement.

Its probably a capacitive coupling.
But anyway it is fun.

My Aircore draws 16mA and if I charge a cap and fire that into something it is very usefull.

[cognito]

Thanks for the reply, Farmhand!

Well I'm in the design phase at the moment...so these are the coils I want to make resonant...

See attachment for coil details...I hope others can help too!!! In this thread I see all kind of different types of setups / circuit, but not what Don Smith have shown us.

As calculated above, the coils lengths are wrong. Length is (PI * D * turns) anyway this now gives the frequency of the wire about 1/4 wave at 8MHz.

I still have no idea on what frequency to tune the coils... If the L1 should be 1/4 wave length then the L2s should have 4 times higher frequency ??

Full wave L1 is 32Mhz and L2s 128MHz, L2 1/4 wave is 32MHz?

So calculated backwards, the output voltage I want is 350Vdc.. min needed for the inverter to generate 230Vac/50Hz so at L2 10 turns should give 700Vac before diodes and 70V/turn from the L1 times 60 gives 4200Vac. Thus the HV dc module generate at least 3KV dc impulse voltage low current at high frequency typically 31kHz.

About tuning the coils, indeed all the coils have a different resonance frequency in practical world and the wire leads inductance capacitance must be included to have resonance (diode/ leads etc.)

The caps are needed to compensate, but I have trouble finding the right ones (capacitor tolerance) to make it resonate. (all connected wires should have almost no resistance/capacitance/inductance)

SO ALL BUILDERS WHO NOT USE THESE TYPE OF WIRES HAVE A HARD TIME FINDING RESONANCE!!!!!!!!!!

How to tune L2 on L1 with use of the spark-gap ????

Any ideas...scope shots...etc.

LC Resonance Frequency Calculator at WhatCircuits.com
FREQUENCY & WAVELENGTH CALCULATOR
Helical Coil Calculator

Br,
Cognito

Hi Cognito, You'll want a 1/4 wave length structure on both primary and secondary, but it can depend on grounding points etc. I'll try to make sense.

If you could make a quick sketch of how you intend to connect the arrangement we can work it out.

But basically if the 60 turn coil is taking the input it's the primary, will be
actually connected to the ground ? A point on grounds, try to use a good
ground point (deep stake or underground metal pipe or such not the house ground).

And the two 10 turn coils will be the secondaries, will they be ground connected and where ?

This calculator can tell you the frequency and self capacitance, self
inductance, wire length and such things for a single layer close wound
solenoid. But you'll need to use it unconventionally.

OLTC Calculator

If you use just the top section for the secondary and input the coil
dimensions then adjust for your wire length and turns so that it matches your
coil it's fairly close, to see more data you'll need to input a value for the
toroid and the primary. I can make a screen shot of a filled in page for your
coil if you have trouble it took me a while to work out how to use it well.

If your turns are spaced it will increase the res frequency and reduce the self
capacitance and inductance. That calculator wont deal with spaced coils,
that has to be estimated or calculated or found by trial and error. But any
spacing will raise the res frequency from what the calculator says.

Resonance is very important for a good output. It is wise to get a good feel of
how to manipulate it to achieve your goals.

I prefer this frequency wire length calculator, but these will only give the
natural res frequency for the wire itself, when wound in a coil it's different as
you are aware. That's where the calculator above comes in it will tell you the
actual frequency of the wound coil, and other data.

Put the frequency in the top and select the 1/4 WL button then look at the
1/4 WL wire length, then adjust the initial frequency value input to get the
wire length ect.

Frequency Wavelength Calculator

Any hand drawn sketch or paint diagram is ok, I find it quicker with a pencil
and paper, then photograph it to upload.

62 feet for a 1/4 W L resonant frequency of about 4 mHz is correct, I work in
metric mainly but imperial is ok. Natural for wire length, not real.

If your primaries have 15 feet each and grounded by the center tap then
each one will have a resonant frequency of about 16 mHz. Natural for wire
length not real.

Try experimenting with the OLTC calculator, it can give a lot of valuable data. I'll check back when I can.

Cheers

[gyula]

I noticed something very interesting yesterday.

I run my aircore mosfet JT on a 6v batt and measured from -batt to the drain of the mosfet pulses with a peak of 20v.

I connected an Avramenko plug with a 5.6uF cap to the drain and voila, it charged to 7.5v

Why? The output doesnt look very raidant on the scope.
But still it works

I believe such single wire AV plug has the "second" wire via a capacitive coupling which is 'structural' i.e. your air core coil is 'open' to the enviroment nearby, making near field EM waves. I think you could make several such plugs and charge up the caps without increasing the input power draw significantly. Also you could consider to transform up the oscillator voltage by a resonant Tesla coil with taps on its side and utilize some more plugs or tuning some Tesla coils to the harmonic frequencies of the oscillator and use AV plugs on them.
Some good reading on the AV plug: Exploring the Avramenko Plug - Heretical Builders
OF course it was Tesla who introduced the one wire energy transfer, using the frequencies between say from some kHz to some ten kHz range. Lower frequencies like 50 or 60 Hz do not 'couple' well due to the big capacitive reactance of the "second" wire.

Gyula

[janost]

I believe such single wire AV plug has the "second" wire via a capacitive coupling which is 'structural' i.e. your air core coil is 'open' to the enviroment nearby, making near field EM waves. I think you could make several such plugs and charge up the caps without increasing the input power draw significantly. Also you could consider to transform up the oscillator voltage by a resonant Tesla coil with taps on its side and utilize some more plugs or tuning some Tesla coils to the harmonic frequencies of the oscillator and use AV plugs on them.
Some good reading on the AV plug: Exploring the Avramenko Plug - Heretical Builders
OF course it was Tesla who introduced the one wire energy transfer, using the frequencies between say from some kHz to some ten kHz range. Lower frequencies like 50 or 60 Hz do not 'couple' well due to the big capacitive reactance of the "second" wire.

Gyula

Yes but does the power come from the battery?

With one plug it does but with 2 plugs or more, will it load the battery with the same current?

I dont think so.

With 100 plugs it shortcircuits the battery or?
No way.

[Farmhand]

Thanks for the reply, Farmhand!

Well I'm in the design phase at the moment...so these are the coils I want to make resonant...

See attachment for coil details...I hope others can help too!!! In this thread I see all kind of different types of setups / circuit, but not what Don Smith have shown us.

As calculated above, the coils lengths are wrong. Length is (PI * D * turns) anyway this now gives the frequency of the wire about 1/4 wave at 8MHz.

I still have no idea on what frequency to tune the coils... If the L1 should be 1/4 wave length then the L2s should have 4 times higher frequency ??

Full wave L1 is 32Mhz and L2s 128MHz, L2 1/4 wave is 32MHz?

So calculated backwards, the output voltage I want is 350Vdc.. min needed for the inverter to generate 230Vac/50Hz so at L2 10 turns should give 700Vac before diodes and 70V/turn from the L1 times 60 gives 4200Vac. Thus the HV dc module generate at least 3KV dc impulse voltage low current at high frequency typically 31kHz.

About tuning the coils, indeed all the coils have a different resonance frequency in practical world and the wire leads inductance capacitance must be included to have resonance (diode/ leads etc.)

The caps are needed to compensate, but I have trouble finding the right ones (capacitor tolerance) to make it resonate. (all connected wires should have almost no resistance/capacitance/inductance)

SO ALL BUILDERS WHO NOT USE THESE TYPE OF WIRES HAVE A HARD TIME FINDING RESONANCE!!!!!!!!!!

How to tune L2 on L1 with use of the spark-gap ????

Any ideas...scope shots...etc.

LC Resonance Frequency Calculator at WhatCircuits.com
FREQUENCY & WAVELENGTH CALCULATOR
Helical Coil Calculator

Br,
Cognito

Hi Cognito, Yes I agree many do find it difficult to get resonance, myself
included. I haven't tried the resonant step down in this way as yet myself
either. But I do have a very similar L1 coil to yours already wound, the
difference is mine is separated in the middle so I could tap it if I wanted to.
The gap in the middle lowers the inductance and raises the res frequency
from what the calculator says. No matter. It has 2 x 20 turns of 2 mm wire with
1 mm spacing.

By the way thanks for the link to the helical coil calculator, Awesome !
Helical Coil Calculator

I can and will show some scope shots with some of the arrangements in the
sketches below. I will make two 10 turn L2-L3 's.

The way I see it when the center tap of the two 10 turn primaries is grounded
it makes two 1/4 WL resonators and being opposite wound they will be "in phase".
As you point out you already know that.

Anyway we want to do is what a Tesla coil does but in reverse so we need the
L1 to be resonant at the same frequency of each one of the 10 turn L2-L3's.

Basically L2 is a pair of parallel resonators.

Tesla coil tuning video tutorial.
Tuning A Tesla Coil with an Oscilloscope - YouTube

There are different ways to get the L1 resonant at the correct frequency.
See attached sketches. Same with the output coils.

Cheers

P.S. Doing the step down with a resonant receiver in single ground wire mode
is different. The receiver L1 has a cap on top and is ground connected but
the output coils are not grounded.

Resonance is fun fun fun !

..

[cognito]

Looking at your circuit drawing (1) I see two caps at the secondary coils...
Is this cap needed?

My view is this: the L2a with a cap is the resonance sustained coil.
It has higher voltage than the L2b coil since this is a pickup coil. What frequency the L1,L2a generates the L2b picks-up at lower voltage (amps??)

Question: where should the cap be placed into the L2a CW or L2b CCW coil?
What is the volts coil and what is the amps coil: CW or CCW and from what side of the coils are we looking? Is the L1 coil CW or CCW?

I also have already build coils to do some measurements... also tested different kinds of spark-gap arrangements and never could resonate the L1 with the circuit Don Smith had used with the step-up coil setup. (pulsed DC from HV module to L1 and cap par over L1 and spark-gap in series at the bottom to gnd.

I used the same circuit (1)..see my scope shots...

I build a primary L1 87 turns and two secondary coils L2a, L2b 7 turns center-tapped to ground and used different caps for resonance at L1 and L2a coils. But none had the same frequency I calculated...lol

Br,
Cognito

Hi Cognito, Yes I agree many do find it difficult to get resonance, myself
included. I haven't tried the resonant step down in this way as yet myself
either. But I do have a very similar L1 coil to yours already wound, the
difference is mine is separated in the middle so I could tap it if I wanted to.
The gap in the middle lowers the inductance and raises the res frequency
from what the calculator says. No matter. It has 2 x 20 turns of 2 mm wire with
1 mm spacing.

By the way thanks for the link to the helical coil calculator, Awesome !
Helical Coil Calculator

I can and will show some scope shots with some of the arrangements in the
sketches below. I will make two 10 turn L2-L3 's.

The way I see it when the center tap of the two 10 turn primaries is grounded
it makes two 1/4 WL resonators and being opposite wound they will be "in phase".
As you point out you already know that.

Anyway we want to do is what a Tesla coil does but in reverse so we need the
L1 to be resonant at the same frequency of each one of the 10 turn L2-L3's.

Basically L2 is a pair of parallel resonators.

Tesla coil tuning video tutorial.
Tuning A Tesla Coil with an Oscilloscope - YouTube

There are different ways to get the L1 resonant at the correct frequency.
See attached sketches. Same with the output coils.

Cheers

P.S. Doing the step down with a resonant receiver in single ground wire mode
is different. The receiver L1 has a cap on top and is ground connected but
the output coils are not grounded.

Resonance is fun fun fun !

..

[janost]

I'm thinking about something like this:

A super Avramenko.

[Farmhand]

Looking at your circuit drawing (1) I see two caps at the secondary coils...
Is this cap needed?

My view is this: the L2a with a cap is the resonance sustained coil.
It has higher voltage than the L2b coil since this is a pickup coil. What frequency the L1,L2a generates the L2b picks-up at lower voltage (amps??)

Question: where should the cap be placed into the L2a CW or L2b CCW coil?
What is the volts coil and what is the amps coil: CW or CCW and from what side of the coils are we looking? Is the L1 coil CW or CCW?

I also have already build coils to do some measurements... also tested different kinds of spark-gap arrangements and never could resonate the L1 with the circuit Don Smith had used with the step-up coil setup. (pulsed DC from HV module to L1 and cap par over L1 and spark-gap in series at the bottom to gnd.

I used the same circuit (1)..see my scope shots...

I build a primary L1 87 turns and two secondary coils L2a, L2b 7 turns center-tapped to ground and used different caps for resonance at L1 and L2a coils. But none had the same frequency I calculated...lol

Br,
Cognito

Hi Cognito, No you don't need it if you don't want it, but that coil won't be resonant.

I can help you with getting resonance. But as far as all the theories of Don
and Zilano ect. I can't help with.

Feel free to try it.

That primary circuit of Don's won't work as it was shown in the drawing demo
device. Not in my opinion. There is no capacitive discharge. The L1 coil
would only be very weakly excited with that circuit.

My preference would be circuit number 3 in the top right hand corner of my
sketches, the L1 and C1 need to make the desired res frequency. But the L4 and
C1 should be a harmonic of the L1-C1 relationship, I think. Anyway L4 should
have enough impedance reactance and DC resistance so that the smoothing
cap does not discharge when C1 discharges.

Circuit 1 should work OK as long as the input current is limited.

A good page here on resonant charging circuits.
DC Tesla Coil design

Uploading a video soon to show some wave forms.

I used 3 turn CW and CCW output coils and a 40 turn L1 with a gap in the middle. The frequency was about 750 kHz and the L1 at 58 uH needed 0.75 nF,
while the 3 turn coils at 1.59 uH each needed 30 nF each.

I'll check and see what the two 3 turn coil wave forms look like when only one
has a capacitor on it.

Cheers