Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[Gedfire]

Feedback

Hi Ged. If, for example, your generator module is powered by 12VDC, and the output of your device is an AC inverter, you would just need to tap the output of the inverter into a step down transformer to step down to 12V or so, and put that into a bridge rectifier and filter cap and then into a 12VDC regulator to get exactly 12VDC to try to run the generator module with.

Excellent, I appreciate the suggestion.

Now you mentioned that, could I have used an off the self battery charger (amps too low?) or some form of adapter/converter setup ? I have a 150 watt inverter for starters.I would plug a power strip into same.Then plug a 12 volt adapter in.Based on the drivers I have ordered,I need 12 volts @ 0.02 amps, 12 volts@ 20mA, and still yet another at 12 volts 130mA no load.


Thanks man.

Stay tuned folks, I did promise something,somewhere in April, working or not.




Ged

[hotrod68r]

hi level. i've often contemplated what could,might be happening when aligned counter magnetic fields are created,induced or sustained.do opposing lines of force establish themselves around the coil in the usual manner or can there be no lines of force or negligible around the coil? i'll key around and try to learn some about it.glad you mentioned it.cheers for all your input.

[hotrod68r]

hi gyula.thanks again for your efforts.looks doable. jaycar aust. is where i get my bits.(and scrapped smps).
it's just dawned on me that a bunch of regular contributors to this piece of cyberspace have been actively involved, learning and discussing the subject, for periods of 6 years and more.i like the objective thinking, level headedness and the knowledge that comes with that experience.it's also good to see every one here gets along .i don't think anyone here wants to be rich or famous.we just want to know the truth,and do what's right with it.it's great to interact with like-minded people. (guess i don't get out much ) cheers everyone.

[boguslaw]

My understanding in basic terms is that Lenz's Law describes why an inductor behaves as an inductor. My descriptions may not be entirely correct as Lenz may have intended his description for a specific case, but I think Lenz's Law really does apply in all the cases described below, but this is just based on my own understanding.

Here are two different scenarios to consider:

(1) When you apply a voltage to an inductor, it induces a current in the inductor, and as the current is building up to its maximum value it generates a corresponding increasing and expanding magnetic field in and around the inductor. As this expanding magnetic field builds up, it's expanding flux lines cut the coils of the inductor and induce a voltage in the inductor which is in opposition to the voltage we are applying to the inductor. This induced opposing voltage is termed 'counter EMF' or 'back EMF'.

(2) When you apply a changing magnetic flux to an inductor using an electromagnet or moving permanent magnet, the changing magnetic flux lines cut the coils of the inductor and induce a voltage in the inductor, which in turn induces a current in the inductor. This current that is induced in the inductor in turn generates a magnetic field in and around the inductor coil which is in opposition to the changing magnetic flux which we applied to the inductor. This will generate an actual physical repulsing force on the electromagnet or permanent magnet we are using to apply the varying magnetic flux to the inductor. In this case, this is not a counter EMF, but a counter magnetic field that is produced, although the EMF that is produced in the inductor is oriented in such a way that the current it produces generates a magnetic flux that is in opposition the magnetic flux we are applying. So in that sense I guess it is still a counter EMF as well that is induced.

So, more simply, Lenz's Law tells us that an inductor will act in such a way as to try to oppose any change we are trying to introduce to its current. If it has no current and we try to induce current flow in it, regardless of whether we are applying a voltage to the inductor or applying a varying magnetic flux to the inductor, the inductor will act to try to oppose this change in current.

Also, if we have a current already flowing in an inductor and we try to stop that current from flowing in the inductor, an inductor will act to try to keep that same current flowing. For example, if we open the circuit on an inductor that has current flowing in it, such that current can no longer flow in a complete circuit through the coil, the inductor's magnetic field will start to collapse and consequently the collapsing magnetic flux lines will cut the coils of the inductor and cause an increasing voltage to be generated in the inductor which is oriented in such a way as to try to maintain the current flow in the coil. If we have an open circuit, eventually the voltage climbs high enough that there is usually a spark that occurs on the switch contacts, which discharges the energy of the coil in a last blast of current created by the spark. This increasing voltage that occurs due to the collapsing magnetic field is not termed a counter EMF, since it is not countering an applied voltage, but this is still an effect of Lenz's law I believe (or maybe Lenz's law in reverse), since the inductor is still acting to oppose change to its current.

Again, this is just my understanding.

Nice to see a starting point happen... can we move it to separate thread now ? I started this thread :
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewa...tml#post228085
and invite also T-1000 , gyula, Ruphus , gotoluc to join. I swear this won't be a long thread ;-)

[gyula]

Hi hotrod68r,

I suggest 2N7000 type for the N-channel MOSFET. At jaycar one quantity costs $AUS 0.6
2N7000 N-Channel FET - Jaycar Electronics

and at RS Comp one quantity costs 0.12 but they sell in a pack of 5 so you are at jaycar price 0.6 but with 5 quantity:
Buy MOSFET Transistors Transistor,MOSFET,N channel,TO92,2N7000 STMicroelectronics 2N7000 online from RS for next day delivery.

Regarding the P-cannel MOSFETs, jaycar has only 2 power types I would not recommend for your circuit.
Unfortunately the low power types have higher prices with respect to N-channel types, here are some at RS Comp:

http://australia.rs-online.com/web/p...stors/1574580/

or you can consider this medium power type, its interelectrode capacitances still not too high:
Buy MOSFET Transistors MOSFET,Pch ,V=200V,I=2.5A,PW-Mold2 Toshiba 2SJ680(Q) online from RS for next day delivery.

As an alternative to the P-channel type, you may wish to test a normal universal PNP bipolar transistor, PN200:
PN200 PNP Multi-replacement Transistor - Jaycar Electronics its collector pin will be the "drain" and its emitter pin will be the "source" pin of the P-channel MOSFET of course and it has no built-in body diode so you may leave your original (I labeled as D2) in the circuit and the pnp transistor will short it during the negative half waves of the induced voltage in the coupling coil.

Well, on your opinion on 'you do not think anyone here wants to be rich or famous': I myself surely not, I do this as a hobby and normally I am helpful. I think there are "silent lurkers" here like everywhere else on such forums and you can never be sure who does what...and with what intentions.

Cheers, Gyula

hi gyula.thanks again for your efforts.looks doable. jaycar aust. is where i get my bits.(and scrapped smps).
it's just dawned on me that a bunch of regular contributors to this piece of cyberspace have been actively involved, learning and discussing the subject, for periods of 6 years and more.i like the objective thinking, level headedness and the knowledge that comes with that experience.it's also good to see every one here gets along .i don't think anyone here wants to be rich or famous.we just want to know the truth,and do what's right with it.it's great to interact with like-minded people. (guess i don't get out much ) cheers everyone.

[T-1000]

Seriously people

Q1: Do you think skycollection came up with this?

Q2: Do you think it is his Neo ball magnet that is inducing current in all the coils below it?

A1: No, he did not come up with this idea. So there should be no need for him to claim copyright.

A2: No, the coils below the neo magnet are induced by the 800ma current sent from his power supply to the top coil to turn the ball magnet. See what happens when he turns off the power supply at the end of the video. All the coils instantly stop producing output.

I would be embarrassed to post such a video.

You want something impressive! then watch this 3 year old video with a neo ball magnet that keeps spinning when the power to the coil is shut off Even if he carries the neo ball 8 feet away it keeps spinning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA4yXevToQc

Don't follow the work of people like skycollection that claim copyrights and don't share how to build. This will lead you to more ignorance. Do your own experiments or follow only those who fully share.

Luc

A1: No, E. Leedskalnin was first in 1930's as far as I seen. You can also observe the similar thing in speed up under short circuit in C Heins "Regenerative Acceleration" experiments.

A2: The neo ball spinup effect is happening in Rodin coil after power is disconnected,this one is interesting too just needs more investigation why it happens.

Seriously, we are walking blind in same forest around same stones for very long time and nobody explained why those things happen and how to use that in engineering...

Hi T-1000. I have attached a schematic diagram of a circuit that uses two separate ferrite (or iron) toroid cores, depending on your desired frequency of operation. The idea is to cancel the counter flux created by the secondary winding S1 as seen by the primary. By having the secondary coils S2 and S3 wound on a different toroid whose flux is only common to secondary coil S1, secondaries S2 and S3 are not influenced directly by the primary and likewise should not influence the primary directly except through S1. Not sure that this will work any better or worse than your circuit idea, but it should work differently than your circuit. Might be interesting to try for comparison purposes. Secondary winding S1 is wound over the common sides of both toroids.

This particular setup would utilize Bitoroid capabilities and I would be interested to see it in action as well

For question why I can't do myself - obviously I have no machining tools to make such devices and to order it outside would cost me hundreds if not thousands pounds. I am doing mini proof of concept experiments and this is where it is progressed so far...

[level]

Now you mentioned that, could I have used an off the self battery charger (amps too low?) or some form of adapter/converter setup ? I have a 150 watt inverter for starters.I would plug a power strip into same.Then plug a 12 volt adapter in.Based on the drivers I have ordered,I need 12 volts @ 0.02 amps, 12 volts@ 20mA, and still yet another at 12 volts 130mA no load.
...

Hi Ged. Sure, if you only need about 200mA max, you should be able to use a 12VDC power adaptor rated for about 500mA or higher. Many of the older style analog power adaptors (non switching type) are not regulated, but if don't need exactly 12VDC they will work and they don't introduce noise into your setup like switching power supply adaptors can do.

[level]

hi level. i've often contemplated what could,might be happening when aligned counter magnetic fields are created,induced or sustained.do opposing lines of force establish themselves around the coil in the usual manner or can there be no lines of force or negligible around the coil? i'll key around and try to learn some about it.glad you mentioned it.cheers for all your input.

Hi hotrod68r. When you have two magnets with opposing flux lines brought close together, this apparently causes the flux fields to distort from each permanent magnet where the opposing fields are brought close together, from what I understand. However, if we wind a bifilar coil and hook it up like I showed in my 'Lenzless Bifilar Coil' schematic, the entire fields are exactly coinciding but opposing, and apparently this causes complete cancellation as far as the effectiveness of these magnetic fields. Beyond that I am not sure exactly what this field cancellation really means at the level of individual lines of flux. Do the two opposing fields really just completely intermingle, or do they actually cancel out lines of flux so the lines of flux don't actually exist? That I don't know.

[janost]

I can say one thing about an aircored coil, there is no core to saturate.

Because of that it doesnt store a large magnetic flux and the collaps doesnt contain any large power.

I will add a ferrite core to my latest aircore JT.
The frequency will be lower than 200KHz but it will work better.

[janost]

There is a big improvement with the ferrite core.
It now runs 28seconds on just a 47000uF cap.

No batteries

[hotrod68r]

thanks level. yeah, i was referring to the case of bifilar windings on the same axis in the same space,(just not succinctly ) i been searching for info but haven't found much yet.this puts a different slant on it. and this backs it up. it could be conjecture or something more.
Magnetic field does not exist
Why do two magnetic lines never intersect each other

[Gedfire]

Feedback 3

Hi Ged. Sure, if you only need about 200mA max, you should be able to use a 12VDC power adaptor rated for about 500mA or higher. Many of the older style analog power adaptors (non switching type) are not regulated, but if don't need exactly 12VDC they will work and they don't introduce noise into your setup like switching power supply adaptors can do.

Duly noted.Thanks!

Ged

[Gedfire]

High Frequency DC

Level and others,

I have been spending some time in spice trying all kinds of simulations.

I tried Don's simulation with the pulsed ac to capacitor plate.Turns out that if I put a load in series with the other side of the capacitor plate as indicated you do get power but you now have a voltage drop.As usual at higher frequencies you get higher power.(Some sort of filter with capacitor and purely resistive element in series).

The arrangement Don always demonstrated with a capacitor plate seem to match one of the diagrams from the Frenchbook he had presented at one of his conferences.The suggestion was made that the load is placed in series.However, the load in parallel seem to be the better arrangement as you get to maintain voltage and share amperage.This appears in some of Don's Schematics and on some of his devices.

My question, in a capacitive divider circuit, they say DC does not apply.I recently had an Electrical Installation teacher saying that DC cannot be used with a transformer.But what about pulsed DC? My understanding is that pulsed DC can produce AC.That's the situation with the Japanese Device.True? Seem pretty logical to me.


Could someone shed some light on what happens if pulsed dc is used in a Capacitve Divider Circuit?


My next question is about the famous tesla schematics that Don has adapted.I noticed it was driven by a tesla coil, but that would be AC to the capacitor, right? Can you still get overunity? I see schematics in Tesla book that had the quenched sparkgap to gave pulsed DC load, but that was AFTER the capacitor.What gives? LtSpice seem to show lots of overunity effects with HF AC to capacitor.I also noticed that the E=0.5XCXv squared X frequency is confirmed in LtSpice.

Anybody noticed how Don started out with frequencies over 200 Mhz then came down to a mere 30,000 Khz in the end.Did you notice the increase in the Capacitance of his capacitors straight up to 2005?

Firstly it was coil capacitance hence his >200Mhz frequencies,then there was 8uF (2uF X 4) @30Khz;then commercial device @ (I suspect 50-60Hz) size then finally to 50F caps pulsed at possible 1 Hz to 400 hz).In Lt spice no more than 10hz in needed with a 50F cap.

The Capacitor Formula allows variables such as frequecy,voltage and capacitance to be manipulated and LtSpice does it beautifully.With a 50 F cap you don't need HF anymore, a mere 12 volts @ 1 hz to 50 hz will give mind bending wattage.Don seem to have gone down to low voltage,low frequency at high capacitance in the period leading up to his 2005 presentations, instead of the High Frequency, High voltages @ low capacitance that he spoke about at the very beginning of his presentations.

I also found that the Tesla Book mentioned by Don is an excellent primer to fully understanding his devices.I started thinking, the alternate name for this thread should be Are " Nikoli Tesla's Devices, too good to be true?"



Just some thoughts.


Regards,
Ged

[Farmhand]

DC capacitor reducer primary transformer circuit

This circuit of Tesla's from the Colorado Springs Notes can be used with DC or AC
it can have the effect of a reducing valve as stated by Tesla, when the break
is conductive the capacitor C1 is charged to the full potential of the generator
then when the break is open the charge on C1 is distributed between the two
capacitors C1 and C2 .

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/d...atecircuit.jpg

Suggest in a nice way to the Electrical Installation teacher that he might like
to read Tesla's Colorado Springs Notes. I'd bet he knows DC can be used for
powering transformers because that is how a regular DC to AC inverter is
powered, I think he maybe just wants to keep it simple. If not he would likely
never finish the curriculum.

Cheers

[hotrod68r]

thanks gedfire. your Ltspice work is encouraging.

thanks also farmhand. nice work as usual.