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  • Easy start-up circuit technique

    Hi,

    Deggers has kindly pointed me to what I consider to be a very important set of information, and he has my sincere thanks for that !

    Video: Don Smith Quick Mockup Primary - YouTube

    This shows a very simple set-up where a small Neon Sign Transformer with an output of 2500V at 12 mA drives a Don Smith coil system, using two separate neon lamps with optional 22K resistors in series. No earth. Four-foot magnetic field which can have as many tuned pick-up coils located in it as you want. I believe that the circuit is shown in the attached file. The resistors are there to ease the load on the neons in the first nanosecond as the gas inside gets a heavy impact when starting but as far as I am aware, there has never been a neon failure if the resistors are omitted.

    If we can't replicate this, then we should be shot.

    Patrick
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Patrick Kelly View Post
      Hi,

      Deggers has kindly pointed me to what I consider to be a very important set of information, and he has my sincere thanks for that !

      Video: Don Smith Quick Mockup Primary - YouTube

      This shows a very simple set-up where a small Neon Sign Transformer with an output of 2500V at 12 mA drives a Don Smith coil system, using two separate neon lamps with optional 22K resistors in series. No earth. Four-foot magnetic field which can have as many tuned pick-up coils located in it as you want. I believe that the circuit is shown in the attached file. The resistors are there to ease the load on the neons in the first nanosecond as the gas inside gets a heavy impact when starting but as far as I am aware, there has never been a neon failure if the resistors are omitted.

      If we can't replicate this, then we should be shot.

      Patrick
      Thank you very much Patrick this thread seems to be advancing in leaps and bounds .. with input and much construction . Your help is invaluable
      Whatever you can do,or dream you can,begin it.Boldness has genius,power and magic in it.Begin it now.

      Comment


      • Thanks for posting that schematic Patrick. Here's a link to that NST.

        VT4015-12





        Originally posted by Patrick Kelly View Post
        Hi,

        Deggers has kindly pointed me to what I consider to be a very important set of information, and he has my sincere thanks for that !

        Video: Don Smith Quick Mockup Primary - YouTube

        This shows a very simple set-up where a small Neon Sign Transformer with an output of 2500V at 12 mA drives a Don Smith coil system, using two separate neon lamps with optional 22K resistors in series. No earth. Four-foot magnetic field which can have as many tuned pick-up coils located in it as you want. I believe that the circuit is shown in the attached file. The resistors are there to ease the load on the neons in the first nanosecond as the gas inside gets a heavy impact when starting but as far as I am aware, there has never been a neon failure if the resistors are omitted.

        If we can't replicate this, then we should be shot.

        Patrick
        Dude, you're curving my space-time.

        Comment






        • Brilliant! How simple!

          Can any neon bulbs be used?
          Last edited by soundiceuk; 01-26-2012, 11:38 AM. Reason: Adding content

          Comment


          • Neons

            I believe those are ne-2 neons. Very common.
            Dude, you're curving my space-time.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by soundiceuk View Post




              Brilliant! How simple!

              Can any neon bulbs be used?
              just borrow from a switched indicator I recon something after this style CML INNOVATIVE TECHNOLOGIES|12.5/25HB|NEON LAMP, WIRE ENDED, T2 | Farnell United Kingdom
              Last edited by Duncan; 01-26-2012, 12:11 PM.
              Whatever you can do,or dream you can,begin it.Boldness has genius,power and magic in it.Begin it now.

              Comment


              • Pulsed DC versus AC

                [QUOTE=Duncan;177621]

                1/ You probably recall ZZZZs post where she said the high frequency supply should be pulsing DC ? If you watched this video Coil Resonance Tutorial 1 - YouTube you probably recall that regardless of wave shape at Hertzian resonance a sine wave is produced .. that begs the question why would ZZZZ care less what sort of wave shape the HT produced ? Perhaps because its resonant to the linear wave???? It would certainly make a hell of a difference then! Its certainly got to be worth a little time to investigate dont you think ?

                QUOTE]

                Pulsed DC gives you COLD electricity which behaves completely differently to AC. ie if you put a resistor in series in a cold electricity circuit, the power increases not decreases. Obviously within limits. If you put a capacitor in there it takes time to condition then self charges, even producing sparks when the power is turned off. Conditioning can take up to a week of constant running. The effect also reverses if the device is off and you have to start again
                Cold means COLD. The wires feel like they've been in a refridgerator. Couldn't be clearer than that.
                Last edited by a.king21; 01-26-2012, 12:24 PM.

                Comment


                • [QUOTE=a.king21;177633]
                  Originally posted by Duncan View Post

                  1/ You probably recall ZZZZs post where she said the high frequency supply should be pulsing DC ? If you watched this video Coil Resonance Tutorial 1 - YouTube you probably recall that regardless of wave shape at Hertzian resonance a sine wave is produced .. that begs the question why would ZZZZ care less what sort of wave shape the HT produced ? Perhaps because its resonant to the linear wave???? It would certainly make a hell of a difference then! Its certainly got to be worth a little time to investigate dont you think ?

                  QUOTE]

                  Pulsed DC gives you COLD electricity which behaves completely differently to AC. ie if you put a resistor in series in a cold electricity circuit, the power increases not decreases. Obviously within limits. If you put a capacitor in there it takes time to condition then self charges, even producing sparks when the power is turned off. Conditioning can take up to a week of constant running. The effect also reverses if the device is off and you have to start again
                  Cold means COLD. The wires feel like they've been in a refridgerator. Couldn't be clearer than that.
                  @ King Thank you very much for your input as you can see with a lot of help from others I am trying everything I can to probe and push every button and dredge every possible combination out of the box, you can perhaps recognize the desperation as I try and break out of conventional thinking in the pfd that pjk was so kind to help me with. The concept of cold electricity is obviously strange to me although I did build Imhops Bedini oscillator and set it on a set of batteries that had been left in a wheel chair in a garage for three years , It did bring them back from the dead and I also noticed they got very cold after a couple of weeks and so I have no doubt you are correct ! The difference between @/a square wave with variable duty cycle and b/ a pulsing DC injection is not immediately apparent to me . I am going to have to sit and try and digest that! But of course Thanks for your help Its diffficult to grasp a new type of power that in a lot of respects reacts in reverse to everything I have been conditioned to understand. I have been at pains to point out the glareing differences it standard teaching and the real world; and also my own floundering, as you can see we are resolving the issue quite quickly, The hounds have caught sight of the rabbit and they are after it!!
                  Best wishes Duncan
                  Whatever you can do,or dream you can,begin it.Boldness has genius,power and magic in it.Begin it now.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Patrick Kelly View Post
                    Hi,

                    Deggers has kindly pointed me to what I consider to be a very important set of information, and he has my sincere thanks for that !

                    Video: Don Smith Quick Mockup Primary - YouTube

                    This shows a very simple set-up where a small Neon Sign Transformer with an output of 2500V at 12 mA drives a Don Smith coil system, using two separate neon lamps with optional 22K resistors in series. No earth. Four-foot magnetic field which can have as many tuned pick-up coils located in it as you want. I believe that the circuit is shown in the attached file. The resistors are there to ease the load on the neons in the first nanosecond as the gas inside gets a heavy impact when starting but as far as I am aware, there has never been a neon failure if the resistors are omitted.

                    If we can't replicate this, then we should be shot.

                    Patrick
                    Hope it works. My only concern is that when I've loaded a circuit like this in the past, the field goes down dramatically. However I've never tried NE2s as a spark gap substitute before. So will give it a go. BTW where can you buy that NST? Especially outside USA/Canada.

                    Comment


                    • Ive just been looking @ tunewell Tunewell Transformers Limited : Clearance Sale all mains driven as far as I can see
                      Whatever you can do,or dream you can,begin it.Boldness has genius,power and magic in it.Begin it now.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by a.king21 View Post
                        Pulsed DC gives you COLD electricity which behaves completely differently to AC. ie if you put a resistor in series in a cold electricity circuit, the power increases not decreases. Obviously within limits. If you put a capacitor in there it takes time to condition then self charges, even producing sparks when the power is turned off. Conditioning can take up to a week of constant running. The effect also reverses if the device is off and you have to start again
                        Cold means COLD. The wires feel like they've been in a refridgerator. Couldn't be clearer than that.
                        I have experienced strange behaviour when experimenting with ignition coils and bulbs, leds etc.

                        When I connect an LED which I assume has a very low resistance in the gas of the led I can touch both terminals with it being fully lit using HV.

                        However, when using a xenon bulb from a disposable camera the shock is quite horrific and left me with twinges in my hands hours later.

                        The higher the resistance the gas in the bulb the more the voltage/current?? is amplified.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Patrick Kelly View Post
                          ....
                          This shows a very simple set-up where a small Neon Sign Transformer with an output of 2500V at 12 mA drives a Don Smith coil system, using two separate neon lamps with optional 22K resistors in series. No earth. .....
                          No middle connection at NST?
                          Just for my understending: Is that Avramenco connection between NST und schematic? Please confirm!
                          Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Duncan View Post
                            Ive just been looking @ tunewell Tunewell Transformers Limited : Clearance Sale all mains driven as far as I can see
                            And they say: "All transformers, have built in Earth leakage, open circuit detection." This could work for non earth connection!
                            Experts spend hours a day in order to question their doing while others stopped thinking feeling they were professionals.

                            Comment


                            • AC verses DC
                              If you watch this vid with the sound off, the field around the coil is the electric field, with ac the field switch's and when it switch's it will not be in synchronization with your coil windings but every other switch.
                              This is why it is important to us dc
                              Unless you wind your secondary coils differently, like caduceus for ac
                              Oscillators, the Basic Tank Circuit 2 - YouTube
                              Hope this helps to clear up dc verses ac, either one can be used but you will have to wind secondary's for it.
                              dave
                              Half of the Answer is knowing the right Question

                              Comment


                              • If your using a tank circuit with the primary this may be a problem, the secondary's may need to be wound with a caduceus winding on each side.
                                Something to think about
                                dave
                                Half of the Answer is knowing the right Question

                                Comment

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